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DK's Inhale's sustain change needs to be reverted
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hoangdz✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Meanwhile subclass builds have far more recovery than dk with these changes even with wretched vitality simply because of animal companion.BardokRedSnow wrote: »MXVIIDREAM wrote: »
[snip]
[snip]
You lose out on 20 percent sustain increase from the passive, an extra free 200 and change stamina or magicka recovery from the skill itself, and most importantly a free cleanse on demand you can spam for free at no cost. Those things add up
Even with the buff the skill is inferior to bull netch, enough that I considered still subclassing one line eventually on the new dk. If they did nerf the skill further it’ll be a dead skill with how it works now only dealing a flat amount of aoe damage
Like have you actually gone into the pts and dueled someone or at least fought something? The sustain is not that good in practice from that skill. It will at best bring dk up some to fight people subclassed, no one will be for instance subbing into dk for inhale the way everyone does animal companion
4416 stamina over 25s => 353 stamina recovery
If you are a stamDK and you have 30k stam, a 10% current missing stam means you are missing 3k stam. Inhale at 3k missing stam will recover 450 stam for first tick, 382 stam for second tick, and 325 stam for 3rd tick, totaling 1157 stam over 4 seconds. That's 578 recovery. Inhale at 90% max stam left is already giving almost double the recovery equivalent than Netch.
And yes, I have dueled people on PTS. I have dueled @Alchimiste1 and @Pelican on PTS. Both of them are top tier players. I think you are overexaggerating the sustain portion of Animal Companion. It doesn't match what I've experienced.
Again for someone that claims to have tested this youre ignoring the fact that this requires regular casting every four seconds, that is a major component you're conveniently leaving out
Whereas bull netch is there whether you're blocking, getting cc'd, cast interrupted, etc etc and only requires one activation every 25 seconds on top of the 20 percent resources increase in addition to the additive resources gain and a cleanse.
These things matter.
Inhale is a delayed burst ability. You are SUPPOSED to be casting it every 4s. It is BENEFICIAL for your rotation. It also happens to restore a significantly more amount of resources than Netch ever will. Inhale also allows permablocking.
Please, I have literally posted 3 videos of permablocking with Inhale, not using a single potion, and still having enough resources to continue blocking. You can literally find them in my previous comments. I don't want to re-explain this.
Then don't, its not necessary because it doesn't address the fact that the need to repeatedly cast it leaves openings and also keeps your resource pool from being topped off.
You wont be permablocking when in a 1vX scenario or a high damage/crit build causes you to get locked in a CC unable to break free, and die. On a class without a streak ability or other escape.
This is the part being glossed over, the things being claimed in practice aren't reality. If you sit there and mash the skill it isnt a permanent sustain cheat or I win button, the gains are being dramatically exaggerated, unless youre on an actual permablock build that is which is already a thing with or without dk and inhale.
The existence of those builds shouldn't get inhale nerfed, you're not permablocking a sweat on an average tank and spank dk with inhale alone. Much less multiple enemies, its a flat out lie.
What do you mean the things being claimed in practice aren't reality? I am 1vXing in Cyrodiil with 800 recoveries on my stamsorc and doing it successfully because Dark Deal is a huge sustain crutch, and on PTS Dark Deal pales in comparison to Inhale. I'm not speaking from an arbitrary stance. I'm actually using my past experience in Cyrodiil, which btw fits perfectly well with how Inhale functions on PTS, and doing some basic comparison to come to this conclusion.
In the case that ZOS keeps Inhale as is, I'll simply just subclass into DK and abuse it like everyone will. There is literally no reason not to run Inhale if it doesn't get nerfed lol.
Because Ive also tested it, and disagree with you that it needs to be nerfed, because what you claim about it isn't true. And in the case that you do subclass using it and it is as broken as you claim, it will merely put everyone on the same playing field. Which seems to be what they intended in the first place.
Okay so if I post a video testing the same thing here and it goes against your claim, you'll admit that you're wrong?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 24, 2026 11:37AM0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Meanwhile subclass builds have far more recovery than dk with these changes even with wretched vitality simply because of animal companion.BardokRedSnow wrote: »MXVIIDREAM wrote: »
[snip]
[snip]
You lose out on 20 percent sustain increase from the passive, an extra free 200 and change stamina or magicka recovery from the skill itself, and most importantly a free cleanse on demand you can spam for free at no cost. Those things add up
Even with the buff the skill is inferior to bull netch, enough that I considered still subclassing one line eventually on the new dk. If they did nerf the skill further it’ll be a dead skill with how it works now only dealing a flat amount of aoe damage
Like have you actually gone into the pts and dueled someone or at least fought something? The sustain is not that good in practice from that skill. It will at best bring dk up some to fight people subclassed, no one will be for instance subbing into dk for inhale the way everyone does animal companion
4416 stamina over 25s => 353 stamina recovery
If you are a stamDK and you have 30k stam, a 10% current missing stam means you are missing 3k stam. Inhale at 3k missing stam will recover 450 stam for first tick, 382 stam for second tick, and 325 stam for 3rd tick, totaling 1157 stam over 4 seconds. That's 578 recovery. Inhale at 90% max stam left is already giving almost double the recovery equivalent than Netch.
And yes, I have dueled people on PTS. I have dueled @Alchimiste1 and @Pelican on PTS. Both of them are top tier players. I think you are overexaggerating the sustain portion of Animal Companion. It doesn't match what I've experienced.
Again for someone that claims to have tested this youre ignoring the fact that this requires regular casting every four seconds, that is a major component you're conveniently leaving out
Whereas bull netch is there whether you're blocking, getting cc'd, cast interrupted, etc etc and only requires one activation every 25 seconds on top of the 20 percent resources increase in addition to the additive resources gain and a cleanse.
These things matter.
Inhale is a delayed burst ability. You are SUPPOSED to be casting it every 4s. It is BENEFICIAL for your rotation. It also happens to restore a significantly more amount of resources than Netch ever will. Inhale also allows permablocking.
Please, I have literally posted 3 videos of permablocking with Inhale, not using a single potion, and still having enough resources to continue blocking. You can literally find them in my previous comments. I don't want to re-explain this.
Then don't, its not necessary because it doesn't address the fact that the need to repeatedly cast it leaves openings and also keeps your resource pool from being topped off.
You wont be permablocking when in a 1vX scenario or a high damage/crit build causes you to get locked in a CC unable to break free, and die. On a class without a streak ability or other escape.
This is the part being glossed over, the things being claimed in practice aren't reality. If you sit there and mash the skill it isnt a permanent sustain cheat or I win button, the gains are being dramatically exaggerated, unless youre on an actual permablock build that is which is already a thing with or without dk and inhale.
The existence of those builds shouldn't get inhale nerfed, you're not permablocking a sweat on an average tank and spank dk with inhale alone. Much less multiple enemies, its a flat out lie.
What do you mean the things being claimed in practice aren't reality? I am 1vXing in Cyrodiil with 800 recoveries on my stamsorc and doing it successfully because Dark Deal is a huge sustain crutch, and on PTS Dark Deal pales in comparison to Inhale. I'm not speaking from an arbitrary stance. I'm actually using my past experience in Cyrodiil, which btw fits perfectly well with how Inhale functions on PTS, and doing some basic comparison to come to this conclusion.
In the case that ZOS keeps Inhale as is, I'll simply just subclass into DK and abuse it like everyone will. There is literally no reason not to run Inhale if it doesn't get nerfed lol.
Because Ive also tested it, and disagree with you that it needs to be nerfed, because what you claim about it isn't true. And in the case that you do subclass using it and it is as broken as you claim, it will merely put everyone on the same playing field. Which seems to be what they intended in the first place.
Okay so if I post a video testing the same thing here and it goes against your claim, you'll admit that you're wrong?
No, because you can simply do as you said you'd do and subclass the skill line and use HoF.
Whats the problem if you have the skill available to you? There's always gonna be one skill that outperforms the others, and the very fact that you can subclass into DK for its alleged overperforming skills proves it doesn't need to be nerfed when the whole point of the class refresh is to bring DK up closer to subclassed builds...
Again as I said in my statement even if you are right and its that strong, your solution proves exactly why a nerf isnt needed.
[edited to remove quote]BardokRedSnow wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »
Again, I have tested the skills on PTS. Nobody on PTS whom I've tested with have said Inhale is balanced. If they disagreed with me, it's because they want to wait until ZOS buffs the remaining classes, not because they think Inhale is balanced.
This bolded part is what it boils down to for me personally.
The skill is clearly not balanced when looking at it compared to existing (pre-refresh) classes, however IF every single class being reworked is going to jump to this sort of power level, then I am fine leaving the skill as is and letting DKs have their moment in the sun until we get warden next season (then DK will have to share with warden) and Sorc later in the year (which DK and Warden will have to share with Sorc). If skills like this prove to still be too problematic after the next couple of classes are released even with their refresh, then look at adjusting this skill to bring it more into line with "the new standard".
P.S. Not sure if I mentioned it on this thread or not, but I have mentioned it many times in other threads, but my preferred way of releasing the class updates would have been to have them as "experimental content" on PTS until all 7 classes have been refreshed, then release all of them at the same time as the "new power baseline". The issue with this is that idk if ESO can last another 2 years without any changes at all (probably why the classes are being released 1 by 1, to give players something fun to play with while this refresh project and other things that will take time are worked on).
This is the part Im not getting as far as people saying its not balanced. This is the obvious intent of the refresh, and its inevitable that reworked classes will be stronger pure vs the ones not refreshed, however people keep forgetting that subclassing will remain a thing and its still severely broken and will be even after DK refreshes.
None of the top sweats I see are subclassing using dk skills, which only highlights the fact that DK is the most in need of a refresh.
@BardokRedSnow This bolded part of your comment is the main crux of my take on this issue. The key point is that we don't know the power level ZOS expects to come out of these class refreshes (is it supposed to be this strong, or did ZOS overshoot this one because it's the first class?)
I agree that if the power that this post-refresh DK has is where ZOS wants to bring every class up to with their refreshes, then no need to change the skill since DK will have plenty of competition within a few months anyway as more classes get their refreshes.
It is a simple fact though that compared to pre-refresh classes this is not balanced (and that is also expected since it is comparing pre-refresh to post-refresh).
This is why I would like to see ZOS let us know for certain that this DK refresh is the intended new power level of every class, so that we can then give them better feedback on if this skill is fine to leave as is since every class will be here anyway, or if it's not ZOS's intended power level, then there's a potential balance issue with this skill for them to look into.
That's fair to me then, I assumed the intended power level was near subclassed builds, not over or under necessarily, just near. I feel like that's what the intended goal is from their various comments prior and their letters to the community.
If that is their goal then yea I stand firm on this being balanced, since anyone not playing a pure dk will most likely in pvp be playing a subclassed build.
With this in mind, this is why I get so frustrated seeing calls for nerfing before its even out yet and after having tested it myself.
There's four reasons DK doesn't compete pure class with subclassed Pelican esque sweat builds and why at best you can stalemate with them. Sustain, focus on dot damage vs overall damage, no cleanse, and no decent escape skill
They have addressed 3 out of 4 of these problems, but they haven't straight up solved them, which is fine because subclassing still exists and DK honestly shouldn't be 100 percent better than subclassed builds right from the start, it should close the gap to make pure classing more satisfying and provide a gameplay feel that subclassed builds wouldn't. I feel like this hits that mark perfectly.
Inhale not being able to top off your resources is actually a big deal and a decent counter to its increased usefulness because of the presence of battle roar and when you're being pressured by a high damage build or a group of people hitting you at once, it gives the chance for counterplay. Warden sustain doesn't have that same counterplay, especially when charm is thrown into the mix.Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 24, 2026 11:41AMZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭The very nature of subclassing without any penalty means subclassed builds will always be stronger than pure class builds. At best these changes even with exaggerated inhale claims true or false brings DK up to par with subclassed builds, for now.
Unless there's something in the dk passives that makes inhale sustain stronger when pure classed, which there isn't, only to damage itself, there's no reason to nerf it.
Only time nerfing will actually be appropriate is when other class refresh efforts come through to bring those in line. The fact that DK is the first means we need to wait and see. Until then if people aren't satisfied with what they have they'll do exactly what the OP said he'd do... continue to subclass, which is as intended.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Meanwhile subclass builds have far more recovery than dk with these changes even with wretched vitality simply because of animal companion.BardokRedSnow wrote: »MXVIIDREAM wrote: »
[snip]
[snip]
You lose out on 20 percent sustain increase from the passive, an extra free 200 and change stamina or magicka recovery from the skill itself, and most importantly a free cleanse on demand you can spam for free at no cost. Those things add up
Even with the buff the skill is inferior to bull netch, enough that I considered still subclassing one line eventually on the new dk. If they did nerf the skill further it’ll be a dead skill with how it works now only dealing a flat amount of aoe damage
Like have you actually gone into the pts and dueled someone or at least fought something? The sustain is not that good in practice from that skill. It will at best bring dk up some to fight people subclassed, no one will be for instance subbing into dk for inhale the way everyone does animal companion
4416 stamina over 25s => 353 stamina recovery
If you are a stamDK and you have 30k stam, a 10% current missing stam means you are missing 3k stam. Inhale at 3k missing stam will recover 450 stam for first tick, 382 stam for second tick, and 325 stam for 3rd tick, totaling 1157 stam over 4 seconds. That's 578 recovery. Inhale at 90% max stam left is already giving almost double the recovery equivalent than Netch.
And yes, I have dueled people on PTS. I have dueled @Alchimiste1 and @Pelican on PTS. Both of them are top tier players. I think you are overexaggerating the sustain portion of Animal Companion. It doesn't match what I've experienced.
Again for someone that claims to have tested this youre ignoring the fact that this requires regular casting every four seconds, that is a major component you're conveniently leaving out
Whereas bull netch is there whether you're blocking, getting cc'd, cast interrupted, etc etc and only requires one activation every 25 seconds on top of the 20 percent resources increase in addition to the additive resources gain and a cleanse.
These things matter.
Inhale is a delayed burst ability. You are SUPPOSED to be casting it every 4s. It is BENEFICIAL for your rotation. It also happens to restore a significantly more amount of resources than Netch ever will. Inhale also allows permablocking.
Please, I have literally posted 3 videos of permablocking with Inhale, not using a single potion, and still having enough resources to continue blocking. You can literally find them in my previous comments. I don't want to re-explain this.
Then don't, its not necessary because it doesn't address the fact that the need to repeatedly cast it leaves openings and also keeps your resource pool from being topped off.
You wont be permablocking when in a 1vX scenario or a high damage/crit build causes you to get locked in a CC unable to break free, and die. On a class without a streak ability or other escape.
This is the part being glossed over, the things being claimed in practice aren't reality. If you sit there and mash the skill it isnt a permanent sustain cheat or I win button, the gains are being dramatically exaggerated, unless youre on an actual permablock build that is which is already a thing with or without dk and inhale.
The existence of those builds shouldn't get inhale nerfed, you're not permablocking a sweat on an average tank and spank dk with inhale alone. Much less multiple enemies, its a flat out lie.
What do you mean the things being claimed in practice aren't reality? I am 1vXing in Cyrodiil with 800 recoveries on my stamsorc and doing it successfully because Dark Deal is a huge sustain crutch, and on PTS Dark Deal pales in comparison to Inhale. I'm not speaking from an arbitrary stance. I'm actually using my past experience in Cyrodiil, which btw fits perfectly well with how Inhale functions on PTS, and doing some basic comparison to come to this conclusion.
In the case that ZOS keeps Inhale as is, I'll simply just subclass into DK and abuse it like everyone will. There is literally no reason not to run Inhale if it doesn't get nerfed lol.
Because Ive also tested it, and disagree with you that it needs to be nerfed, because what you claim about it isn't true. And in the case that you do subclass using it and it is as broken as you claim, it will merely put everyone on the same playing field. Which seems to be what they intended in the first place.
Okay so if I post a video testing the same thing here and it goes against your claim, you'll admit that you're wrong?
No, because you can simply do as you said you'd do and subclass the skill line and use HoF.
Whats the problem if you have the skill available to you? There's always gonna be one skill that outperforms the others, and the very fact that you can subclass into DK for its alleged overperforming skills proves it doesn't need to be nerfed when the whole point of the class refresh is to bring DK up closer to subclassed builds...
Again as I said in my statement even if you are right and its that strong, your solution proves exactly why a nerf isnt needed.BardokRedSnow wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »
Again, I have tested the skills on PTS. Nobody on PTS whom I've tested with have said Inhale is balanced. If they disagreed with me, it's because they want to wait until ZOS buffs the remaining classes, not because they think Inhale is balanced.
This bolded part is what it boils down to for me personally.
The skill is clearly not balanced when looking at it compared to existing (pre-refresh) classes, however IF every single class being reworked is going to jump to this sort of power level, then I am fine leaving the skill as is and letting DKs have their moment in the sun until we get warden next season (then DK will have to share with warden) and Sorc later in the year (which DK and Warden will have to share with Sorc). If skills like this prove to still be too problematic after the next couple of classes are released even with their refresh, then look at adjusting this skill to bring it more into line with "the new standard".
P.S. Not sure if I mentioned it on this thread or not, but I have mentioned it many times in other threads, but my preferred way of releasing the class updates would have been to have them as "experimental content" on PTS until all 7 classes have been refreshed, then release all of them at the same time as the "new power baseline". The issue with this is that idk if ESO can last another 2 years without any changes at all (probably why the classes are being released 1 by 1, to give players something fun to play with while this refresh project and other things that will take time are worked on).
This is the part Im not getting as far as people saying its not balanced. This is the obvious intent of the refresh, and its inevitable that reworked classes will be stronger pure vs the ones not refreshed, however people keep forgetting that subclassing will remain a thing and its still severely broken and will be even after DK refreshes.
None of the top sweats I see are subclassing using dk skills, which only highlights the fact that DK is the most in need of a refresh.
@BardokRedSnow This bolded part of your comment is the main crux of my take on this issue. The key point is that we don't know the power level ZOS expects to come out of these class refreshes (is it supposed to be this strong, or did ZOS overshoot this one because it's the first class?)
I agree that if the power that this post-refresh DK has is where ZOS wants to bring every class up to with their refreshes, then no need to change the skill since DK will have plenty of competition within a few months anyway as more classes get their refreshes.
It is a simple fact though that compared to pre-refresh classes this is not balanced (and that is also expected since it is comparing pre-refresh to post-refresh).
This is why I would like to see ZOS let us know for certain that this DK refresh is the intended new power level of every class, so that we can then give them better feedback on if this skill is fine to leave as is since every class will be here anyway, or if it's not ZOS's intended power level, then there's a potential balance issue with this skill for them to look into.
That's fair to me then, I assumed the intended power level was near subclassed builds, not over or under necessarily, just near. I feel like that's what the intended goal is from their various comments prior and their letters to the community.
If that is their goal then yea I stand firm on this being balanced, since anyone not playing a pure dk will most likely in pvp be playing a subclassed build.
With this in mind, this is why I get so frustrated seeing calls for nerfing before its even out yet and after having tested it myself.
There's four reasons DK doesn't compete pure class with subclassed Pelican esque sweat builds and why at best you can stalemate with them. Sustain, focus on dot damage vs overall damage, no cleanse, and no decent escape skill
They have addressed 3 out of 4 of these problems, but they haven't straight up solved them, which is fine because subclassing still exists and DK honestly shouldn't be 100 percent better than subclassed builds right from the start, it should close the gap to make pure classing more satisfying and provide a gameplay feel that subclassed builds wouldn't. I feel like this hits that mark perfectly.
Inhale not being able to top off your resources is actually a big deal and a decent counter to its increased usefulness because of the presence of battle roar and when you're being pressured by a high damage build or a group of people hitting you at once, it gives the chance for counterplay. Warden sustain doesn't have that same counterplay, especially when charm is thrown into the mix.
I don’t switch to another skill line if it’s only on par. It needs to be better than what I currently have. I’m using Dark Deal which is one of the best sustain skills in the game, and I will be replacing it with HOF.
Like I said, this will do nothing but force competitive people to use another skill line instead of the status quo. Things get shuffled around, that is all. I can assure you that the meta builds using Assassination/Animal/Storm or Restoring Light will just switch to Assassination/Animal/Earthern next update. Ardent Flame is going to be top tier for a lot of builds as well and will be used by subclass builds. Nothing will change.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 24, 2026 11:44AM0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Unless there's something in the dk passives that makes inhale sustain stronger when pure classed, which there isn't, only to damage itself, there's no reason to nerf it.
Subclassing doesnt mean we should open doors to allow imbalances.
Nightblade merciless now gives you 5k weapon damage and brushes your teeth for you.....oh well this is fine to have in the game, anyone can subclass it after all. This is just not a good line of reasoning, spend the time write out values and math for the actual backed conclusion.
Netch accounts for- 176 restore per sec == 353.28 post buff regen == 218 prebuffed regen (assume meta buffs)
- spam is 176 restore
DarkConversion(more than darkdeal cuz stamsorc sucks)- 222.75 restore per sec == 445.5 post buff regen == 275 prebuff regen
- Spam unbashed is 4500mag-3045stam == 1455 mag
HOF ......... lets assume a generous 60% of both 17k mag and 22k stam which are fairly meta values giving the benefit of the doubt that you have not swapped off regen food or anything else from meta.- 22kstam*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1320 stam == 1320 post buff regen == 815 prebuff regen
- 17kmag*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1020 mag == 1020 post buff regen == 630 prebuff regen
- 60% resource spam = 1320+1020-3370 = -1030resources (you would only spam while blocking at low resources so not a great value for comparison spam wise)
- 20% resource spam = 2640+2040-3370 == 1310 resources (similar to darkconverge spam while being able to block, unbashable, and cast slightly faster)
HOF even given gracious build assumptions like not changing from regen to buff max stats and getting realistic 60% resources of low meta resources. It already does like 5x the constant sustain. Now zos could be assuming that nobody is going to inhale every 4s and assumes a 8s or 12s downtime which brings this constant running "regen" down over a longer period....the 5x would line up with one time usage every 20s like other sustain tools......................It is very likely zos used the average max stats and assumed 50% and then chose 15% missing to be equivalent to Dark Convergence. They got the numbers somehow, and my calcs are pretty on point for this notion.
At low resources during expected spam usage it is fairly equivalent to dark conversion without the massive hassle of casting and being bashed while unable to block. Again I want to highlight the ability for permablock abuse.
Feel free to point out errors here, I can update my values and repost as needed.Edited by MincMincMinc on January 21, 2026 6:12PMI only use insightful2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I seriously doubt it performs like that in OW where it goes dead every time you stop dealing damage, which is frequently when your only passive damage is Hurricane. Any number of defensive skills would be better than Surge in that slot for OW.Screenshot taken from a duelPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I sure have, with all the time I've spent on DK, Sorc, and DK/Sorc hybrids.Trust me, it works. You can try yourself if you doubt
I found Surge to be mediocre at best without sticky dots as enablers, my frame of reference being CA burst StamSorc in like 2018, testing subclassed onto NB, and a few random MagSorc stretches. I replaced it with a Scribing skill for the major buff last time I tried MagSorc.
With sticky dot enablers, Surge does like 3k+ hps. You're getting half that in a duel and not even using the major buff. I think you undervalue bar slots, which is leading you to overvalue Heart of Flame, where I see its opportunity cost balancing it.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Unless there's something in the dk passives that makes inhale sustain stronger when pure classed, which there isn't, only to damage itself, there's no reason to nerf it.
Subclassing doesnt mean we should open doors to allow imbalances.
Nightblade merciless now gives you 5k weapon damage and brushes your teeth for you.....oh well this is fine to have in the game, anyone can subclass it after all. This is just not a good line of reasoning, spend the time write out values and math for the actual backed conclusion.
Netch accounts for- 176 restore per sec == 353.28 post buff regen == 218 prebuffed regen (assume meta buffs)
- spam is 176 restore
DarkConversion(more than darkdeal cuz stamsorc sucks)- 222.75 restore per sec == 445.5 post buff regen == 275 prebuff regen
- Spam unbashed is 4500mag-3045stam == 1455 mag
HOF ......... lets assume a generous 60% of both 17k mag and 22k stam which are fairly meta values giving the benefit of the doubt that you have not swapped off regen food or anything else from meta.- 22kstam*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1320 stam == 1320 post buff regen == 815 prebuff regen
- 17kmag*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1020 mag == 1020 post buff regen == 630 prebuff regen
- 60% resource spam = 1320+1020-3370 = -1030resources (you would only spam while blocking at low resources so not a great value for comparison spam wise)
- 20% resource spam = 2640+2040-3370 == 1310 resources (similar to darkconverge spam while being able to block, unbashable, and cast slightly faster)
HOF even given gracious build assumptions like not changing from regen to buff max stats and getting realistic 60% resources of low meta resources. It already does like 5x the constant sustain. Now zos could be assuming that nobody is going to inhale every 4s and assumes a 8s or 12s downtime which brings this constant running "regen" down over a longer period....the 5x would line up with one time usage every 20s like other sustain tools......................It is very likely zos used the average max stats and assumed 50% and then chose 15% missing to be equivalent to Dark Convergence. They got the numbers somehow, and my calcs are pretty on point for this notion.
At low resources during expected spam usage it is fairly equivalent to dark conversion without the massive hassle of casting and being bashed while unable to block. Again I want to highlight the ability for permablock abuse.
Feel free to point out errors here, I can update my values and repost as needed.
Bolded text is exactly my entire point of why this issue is exaggerated. Permablock builds to me aren't a concern, I safely ignore them until they're all thats left and they die alone.Edited by BardokRedSnow on January 21, 2026 6:27PMZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭
I sure have, with all the time I've spent on DK, Sorc, and DK/Sorc hybrids.Trust me, it works. You can try yourself if you doubt
I found Surge to be mediocre at best without sticky dots as enablers, my frame of reference being CA burst StamSorc in like 2018, testing subclassed onto NB, and a few random MagSorc stretches. I replaced it with a Scribing skill for the major buff last time I tried MagSorc.
With sticky dot enablers, Surge does like 3k+ hps. You're getting half that in a duel and not even using the major buff. I think you undervalue bar slots, which is leading you to overvalue Heart of Flame, where I see its opportunity cost balancing it.
This is my HPS in an old duel with Surge vs a magsorc:
Using this build:
98 Surge procs in 4 minutes 2 seconds, that's a 40% proc chance for Surge off 2 AoE DoTs, 2-3 occasional 4s sticky DoTs, and mostly direct damage.
I only found Surge to be underwhelming when I'm heavily kiting. Otherwise, it's been performing very well for me. This is also why I am willing to double dip on Surge and Netch.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Unless there's something in the dk passives that makes inhale sustain stronger when pure classed, which there isn't, only to damage itself, there's no reason to nerf it.
Subclassing doesnt mean we should open doors to allow imbalances.
Nightblade merciless now gives you 5k weapon damage and brushes your teeth for you.....oh well this is fine to have in the game, anyone can subclass it after all. This is just not a good line of reasoning, spend the time write out values and math for the actual backed conclusion.
Netch accounts for- 176 restore per sec == 353.28 post buff regen == 218 prebuffed regen (assume meta buffs)
- spam is 176 restore
DarkConversion(more than darkdeal cuz stamsorc sucks)- 222.75 restore per sec == 445.5 post buff regen == 275 prebuff regen
- Spam unbashed is 4500mag-3045stam == 1455 mag
HOF ......... lets assume a generous 60% of both 17k mag and 22k stam which are fairly meta values giving the benefit of the doubt that you have not swapped off regen food or anything else from meta.- 22kstam*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1320 stam == 1320 post buff regen == 815 prebuff regen
- 17kmag*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1020 mag == 1020 post buff regen == 630 prebuff regen
- 60% resource spam = 1320+1020-3370 = -1030resources (you would only spam while blocking at low resources so not a great value for comparison spam wise)
- 20% resource spam = 2640+2040-3370 == 1310 resources (similar to darkconverge spam while being able to block, unbashable, and cast slightly faster)
HOF even given gracious build assumptions like not changing from regen to buff max stats and getting realistic 60% resources of low meta resources. It already does like 5x the constant sustain. Now zos could be assuming that nobody is going to inhale every 4s and assumes a 8s or 12s downtime which brings this constant running "regen" down over a longer period....the 5x would line up with one time usage every 20s like other sustain tools......................It is very likely zos used the average max stats and assumed 50% and then chose 15% missing to be equivalent to Dark Convergence. They got the numbers somehow, and my calcs are pretty on point for this notion.
At low resources during expected spam usage it is fairly equivalent to dark conversion without the massive hassle of casting and being bashed while unable to block. Again I want to highlight the ability for permablock abuse.
Feel free to point out errors here, I can update my values and repost as needed.
Bolded text is exactly my entire point of why this issue is exaggerated. Permablock builds to me aren't a concern, I safely ignore them until they're all thats left and they die alone.
When the meta settles you will see what I mean0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Unless there's something in the dk passives that makes inhale sustain stronger when pure classed, which there isn't, only to damage itself, there's no reason to nerf it.
Subclassing doesnt mean we should open doors to allow imbalances.
Nightblade merciless now gives you 5k weapon damage and brushes your teeth for you.....oh well this is fine to have in the game, anyone can subclass it after all. This is just not a good line of reasoning, spend the time write out values and math for the actual backed conclusion.
Netch accounts for- 176 restore per sec == 353.28 post buff regen == 218 prebuffed regen (assume meta buffs)
- spam is 176 restore
DarkConversion(more than darkdeal cuz stamsorc sucks)- 222.75 restore per sec == 445.5 post buff regen == 275 prebuff regen
- Spam unbashed is 4500mag-3045stam == 1455 mag
HOF ......... lets assume a generous 60% of both 17k mag and 22k stam which are fairly meta values giving the benefit of the doubt that you have not swapped off regen food or anything else from meta.- 22kstam*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1320 stam == 1320 post buff regen == 815 prebuff regen
- 17kmag*(1-0.6)*0.15 = 1020 mag == 1020 post buff regen == 630 prebuff regen
- 60% resource spam = 1320+1020-3370 = -1030resources (you would only spam while blocking at low resources so not a great value for comparison spam wise)
- 20% resource spam = 2640+2040-3370 == 1310 resources (similar to darkconverge spam while being able to block, unbashable, and cast slightly faster)
HOF even given gracious build assumptions like not changing from regen to buff max stats and getting realistic 60% resources of low meta resources. It already does like 5x the constant sustain. Now zos could be assuming that nobody is going to inhale every 4s and assumes a 8s or 12s downtime which brings this constant running "regen" down over a longer period....the 5x would line up with one time usage every 20s like other sustain tools......................It is very likely zos used the average max stats and assumed 50% and then chose 15% missing to be equivalent to Dark Convergence. They got the numbers somehow, and my calcs are pretty on point for this notion.
At low resources during expected spam usage it is fairly equivalent to dark conversion without the massive hassle of casting and being bashed while unable to block. Again I want to highlight the ability for permablock abuse.
Feel free to point out errors here, I can update my values and repost as needed.
Bolded text is exactly my entire point of why this issue is exaggerated. Permablock builds to me aren't a concern, I safely ignore them until they're all thats left and they die alone.
Average build usage seems balanced at the 50% mark. I suppose whats good is for an average build it is a higher skill cap concept. Good players will stack higher max stats and essentially play flappy bird with their resource pool. Falling down to low and then boosting back up. I agree with this higher skill cap sustain vs a generic flat regen rate like we see with netch and current Darkdeal
I would estimate most people are going to recast every 10s though in pvp, not the zos assumed 20s effectively doubling the sustain expected.......darkdeal doesnt 2x because of the recast loss so it is more like 1.75x.......netch is free over time so it stays the same. Most kill windows are only 3-4 gcds anyways. Assume a few gcds for post burst healing. Then you get back to recasting sustain and buffs > debuffs and repeat. Even stamsorc does this same rotation wasting half of darkdeal.Edited by MincMincMinc on January 21, 2026 6:51PMI only use insightful2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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You run high armor face tank builds on Sorc, right. You're still only getting a fraction of Surge's value, 800 hps with no buff, compared to 2k-3k+ with major buff you get when enabled.I only found Surge to be underwhelming when I'm heavily kiting
Since I mostly kite, I'd need to consider whether Heart of Flame is even worth slotting, the AoE damage component goes blank every time I'm on the defensive, an empty gcd under fire is a significant risk when you're not building to be face tanky. Sustain is not hard.
This does not seem like something that needs a nerf. Some troll tank bouncing between 10% and 50% resources by pressing a mid damage skill every 4sec isn't the threat. The build that one shots with an unblockable stun into burst ult atop a stack of procs is the threat.
If you want to crusade to nerf something, there are a million headaches ruining this game before "yet another sustain skill" like burst procs, group buff procs, permablock, subclass combos, etc.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Wait what do you mean only 800hps? Its a constant value of 3300 that gets modified by % mods. Or do you mean uptime wise he gets less? In his case, the way he 1vX's its should be fairly consistent considering hurricane ticks on groups of 6+ enemies.I only use insightful0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah I'm sure it's great when 6 bad players are in his face, most things are. Against a MagSorc where he couldn't consistently enable it, he got 800. This more accurately reflects average OW combat to me, where there is a lot of obnoxious range spam and obligated kiting.MincMincMinc wrote: »Wait what do you mean only 800hps? Its a constant value of 3300 that gets modified by % mods. Or do you mean uptime wise he gets less? In his case, the way he 1vX's its should be fairly consistent considering hurricane ticks on groups of 6+ enemies.
Judging Surge only by "6 bad players in your face" is like judging Heart of Flame only by an open cast at 10% resources. The 3k+ hps ceiling on Surge might seem nerf-worthy to some too, but you're not always getting that, neither are you always hitting the ceiling on Heart of Flame.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭
You run high armor face tank builds on Sorc, right. You're still only getting a fraction of Surge's value, 800 hps with no buff, compared to 2k-3k+ with major buff you get when enabled.I only found Surge to be underwhelming when I'm heavily kiting
Since I mostly kite, I'd need to consider whether Heart of Flame is even worth slotting, the AoE damage component goes blank every time I'm on the defensive, an empty gcd under fire is a significant risk when you're not building to be face tanky. Sustain is not hard.
This does not seem like something that needs a nerf. Some troll tank bouncing between 10% and 50% resources by pressing a mid damage skill every 4sec isn't the threat. The build that one shots with an unblockable stun into burst ult atop a stack of procs is the threat.
If you want to crusade to nerf something, there are a million headaches ruining this game before "yet another sustain skill" like burst procs, group buff procs, permablock, subclass combos, etc.
Can you clarify what you meant in your first paragraph?
Right, sustain isn’t hard, but let’s not downplay it because you are also sacrificing something to get that sustain. In most cases, that’s:
- 4k mag and stam
- A red CP
- A recovery glyph
- A potion effect
You’re trading one stat for another. You aren’t magically gaining sustain from nothing. With Inhale though, you can:
- Run max stat food
- Drop Sustained by Suffering CP for something else
- Run another potion
I am going on a crusade against this skill because it can be abused like Dark Deal, but to a much greater degree. With Dark Deal, I am already fully specced into defense and damage. I dropped Sustained by Suffering to use Celerity. The only thing left I can drop is Tri Pots, but that’s not doable with Dark Deal. With Inhale tho, I can. I will be running double armor potions and using an infused ice staff back bar and 3x Infused glyphs when this goes live.
Edited by hoangdz on January 21, 2026 7:37PM0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭
Yeah I'm sure it's great when 6 bad players are in his face, most things are. Against a MagSorc where he couldn't consistently enable it, he got 800. This more accurately reflects average OW combat to me, where there is a lot of obnoxious range spam and obligated kiting.MincMincMinc wrote: »Wait what do you mean only 800hps? Its a constant value of 3300 that gets modified by % mods. Or do you mean uptime wise he gets less? In his case, the way he 1vX's its should be fairly consistent considering hurricane ticks on groups of 6+ enemies.
Judging Surge only by "6 bad players in your face" is like judging Heart of Flame only by an open cast at 10% resources. The 3k+ hps ceiling on Surge might seem nerf-worthy to some too, but you're not always getting that, neither are you always hitting the ceiling on Heart of Flame.
800 is still a lot tho, and I can always proc it with a light attack + Ele sus combo from range. That’s 4 ticks of direct damage.
I’m not going to convince you with words, so I’ll do what I do best and post gameplay clips. I’ll be using zero tri pots and minimum recovery stat for all my duels. You’ll see what I mean.0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yeah I'm sure it's great when 6 bad players are in his face, most things are. Against a MagSorc where he couldn't consistently enable it, he got 800. This more accurately reflects average OW combat to me, where there is a lot of obnoxious range spam and obligated kiting.MincMincMinc wrote: »Wait what do you mean only 800hps? Its a constant value of 3300 that gets modified by % mods. Or do you mean uptime wise he gets less? In his case, the way he 1vX's its should be fairly consistent considering hurricane ticks on groups of 6+ enemies.
Judging Surge only by "6 bad players in your face" is like judging Heart of Flame only by an open cast at 10% resources. The 3k+ hps ceiling on Surge might seem nerf-worthy to some too, but you're not always getting that, neither are you always hitting the ceiling on Heart of Flame.
OK agreed then, this is what i tend to see on 1vX as I play more kite hit and run oldschool stamsorc concepts. In a good longterm 1v3+ fights not kiting I find critsurge is matches my vigor and healingsoul for overall healing in cmx.I only use insightful0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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No need, I get that Hurricane is enough to enable it in duels or melee 1vX, but as you acknowledge it falls off when kiting in OW, which is why I don't like it there.I’m not going to convince you with words, so I’ll do what I do best and post gameplay clips. I’ll be using zero tri pots and minimum recovery stat for all my duels. You’ll see what I mean.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP0 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭
This skill is providing TOO MUCH sustain on PTS in PvP. For 3.8k cost, it's restoring so much magicka and stamina that you can afford to run zero regen food and STILL sustain like someone with 3k recovery. You literally cannot run out of sustain with this skill active. Even if you are at 10% resources for both stam and mag, as long as you're able to cast Inhale, you will recover to 50% resources after it ends.
This results in situations where the DK player can choose to forgo building recovery completely and build into maximum damage/defense. This is something that only Sorcerer can pull off, and they can only do that for either stam or mag. DK does that for BOTH resources.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please forward this to the dev team so they can take a look at this skill.
As a solo PVE player I would much prefer if it were to be adjusted by battlespirit or some other means/qualifier than totally nerfed for PVE too just because it's too strong for PVP.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭
No need, I get that Hurricane is enough to enable it in duels or melee 1vX, but as you acknowledge it falls off when kiting in OW, which is why I don't like it there.I’m not going to convince you with words, so I’ll do what I do best and post gameplay clips. I’ll be using zero tri pots and minimum recovery stat for all my duels. You’ll see what I mean.
Doesn’t make it any less strong for most situations tho. If it functioned just as well during kiting then it deserves a tooltip nerf, which is what I suggested several times in the past (100% proc rate, lower tooltip).0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭Alright, here are some test videos since some of yall think I'm "spreadsheet warriors".
1st clip, I won the duel:
2nd clip, I lagged out and lost:
3rd clip, I won the duel. Inhale even bugged out at one point (did not cast despite having enough mag):
My stats:
These players are all veterans in the game. These duels don't look lopsided because you are looking at the top 1-5% fights. If I were to fight an average player, there is NO CHANCE they are going to compete at all. Did you see me have any sustain issues against a Kjalnar/Merciless/Fissure build used by a competent player? No. in fact, I did not heavy attack a single time in those 3 duels. If I were using my pure Sorc build with Dark Deal, I would have been heavy attacking much more often.
Dropped Dark Deal for Inhale. Did not use tri pots, recovery food, or recovery CP. Swapping to double armor potions allowed me to run Infused staff back bar front bar, 3x Infused jewelries, and STILL end up with 34k max resistances when Bloodspawn procced. You can NEVER pull this off with Dark Deal or any sustain skill currently on live. Soul of Flame is straight up carrying sustain in a max resource build.
Soul of Flame critted for 6.7k with full pen. This is an AoE delayed burst ability with respectable damage. In fact, I will leave these tooltips here for you to see:
Soul of Flame has almost as much damage as Fissure's initial tick, while also giving a massive amount of sustain.
If you don't think this is imbalanced, then it's either a legitimate skill issue, or you have some hidden agenda. Inhale needs to be adjusted, badly.Edited by hoangdz on January 22, 2026 6:07AM1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭This is what will happen if Inhale is allowed on live:
Essence Thief isn't included in this btw. Essence is equivalent to ~600 weapon damage.
If Inhale were to stay the same, I would run 64 points in HP and double armor potion. I will be sitting at 43k+ resists and 40k HP, while having the sustain of a 2.5k regen build. I will also have enough damage to completely wipe the floor with an average player and when Onslaught is up, I will be 1- shotting them. The only way for them to kill me is by using Onslaught. Corrosive won't matter to me because I already have Streak to kite. They cannot pressure my sustain because Inhale is absolutely broken. To the average player, this IS an unkillable build.
This will be the path that every good player builds. They may use another set, but fundamentally, they will build into max resistances with as little sustain as possible to milk out the most damage/defense. While Onslaught/Corrosive are their own issues, Inhale is the other 30% of the problem, as it allows you to do things you could never do on the live server.
Edited by hoangdz on January 22, 2026 6:35AM0 -
MXVIIDREAM✭✭✭✭All you’ve proved in these clips is that essence Theif carried your stam sustain more than inhale with a pool much bigger than most players not many people with 30k stam and being at the lowest point and using inhale correctly you rarely get above 10k with a resorce pool close to 10k more than most people
two although not cc’ing you (you lost one duel) on cooldown still had you struggling for stam lucky you run essence Thief and it seems you’ve specced into ardent flame so you’re also seeing an improvement to your sustain from cumbustion aswell
first guy you dueled was he afk or just never dueled before (oh wait that’s your friend in this thread isnt it ?)
although you’ve lost your free clense, heal and crit damage from animal companions
Onslaught carried you more than anything
You also showcased just how weak the as the new flames of oblivion and inhale (specifically inhale you said it hit for only 6.7k with the onslaught crit and crazy full pen bonus 6.7k is nothing for the damage morph of the skill a 10k crit with full pen would have been worth talking about ) combined almost done less damage then hurricane alone with 100% uptime so they could probably do with a buff
Thanks for sharing your findingsEdited by MXVIIDREAM on January 22, 2026 8:46AM2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭MXVIIDREAM wrote: »the first guy you dueled was he afk or just never dueled before
The other two although not cc’ing you on cooldown still had you struggling for stam lucky you run essence Theif or you’d have had no chance
All you’ve proved in these clips is that essence Theif carried your stam sustain more than inhale with a pool much bigger than most players not many people with 30k stam and being at the lowest point and using inhale correctly you rarely get above 10k with a resorce pool close to 10k more than most people
Onslaught carried you more than anything
You also showcased just how weak the as the new flames of oblivion and inhale combined almost done less damage then hurricane alone with 100% uptime so they could probably do with a buff
Thanks for sharing your findings
Biased is always biased, move along2 -
MXVIIDREAM✭✭✭✭6.7k soul of flame
Actually let’s just highlight that!
you have a huge huge almost capped crit modifier
Nearly 6k weapon damage
And ontop of that you had the new onslaught buff
Crit garenteed
And 100% pen
and you’re saying that 6.7k is respectable damage for damage morph of this skill you can’t be serious that’s so exceptionally weak
and not even slightly comparable to delayed damage of other skills not even as hard hitting as the initial hit of sub assault which for some reason you compared it too
Not bias at all you can’t say that’s good by any means
Guess this will hit about 3k crits for those of us that aren’t abusing onslaughtEdited by MXVIIDREAM on January 22, 2026 9:27AM2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭MXVIIDREAM wrote: »All you’ve proved in these clips is that essence Theif carried your stam sustain more than inhale with a pool much bigger than most players not many people with 30k stam and being at the lowest point and using inhale correctly you rarely get above 10k with a resorce pool close to 10k more than most people
two although not cc’ing you (you lost one duel) on cooldown still had you struggling for stam lucky you run essence Thief and it seems you’ve specced into ardent flame so you’re also seeing an improvement to your sustain from cumbustion aswell
first guy you dueled was he afk or just never dueled before (oh wait that’s your friend in this thread isnt it ?)
although you’ve lost your free clense, heal and crit damage from animal companions
Onslaught carried you more than anything
You also showcased just how weak the as the new flames of oblivion and inhale (specifically inhale you said it hit for only 6.7k with the onslaught crit and crazy full pen bonus 6.7k is nothing for the damage morph of the skill a 10k crit with full pen would have been worth talking about ) combined almost done less damage then hurricane alone with 100% uptime so they could probably do with a buff
Thanks for sharing your findings
My guy completely glossed over the screenshot showing Fissure and Soul of Flame having close tooltips. It's like talking to a brick wall.
I could literally wear 3 tank sets with zero sustain sets and you would still find some irrelevant reason to defend Inhale lol. You have demonstrated so much biasness in your comments, not only glossing over what I've presented, but also attacking premises I never made, that it's actually pointless to have any meaningful discussion with you.
This is exactly what happened when Hardened Ward was broken. People like you argued like this, ignoring the premise that is being discussed and arguing things that aren't. The funny thing is I so far I have been right in the concerns I brought up
Whether or not Inhale gets adjusted, I will abuse it when it goes live. I've done my job here
1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭MXVIIDREAM wrote: »6.7k soul of flame
Actually let’s just highlight that!
you have a huge huge almost capped crit modifier
Nearly 6k weapon damage
And ontop of that you had the new onslaught buff
Crit garenteed
And 100% pen
and you’re saying that 6.7k is respectable damage for damage morph of this skill you can’t be serious that’s so exceptionally weak
and not even slightly comparable to delayed damage of other skills pretty not even as hard hitting as the initial hit of sub assault which for some reason you compared it too
Not bias at all you can’t say that’s good by any means
6.7k is a reasonable amount of burst damage for a skill that also has god tier sustain. If you had any sort of respect for combat balance you would understand why 6.7k is a very good number. Judging from your comments I wouldn't be surprised if you want SoF to crit for 10k while giving the best sustain in the game. Just stop bro.0 -
MXVIIDREAM✭✭✭✭MXVIIDREAM wrote: »All you’ve proved in these clips is that essence Theif carried your stam sustain more than inhale with a pool much bigger than most players not many people with 30k stam and being at the lowest point and using inhale correctly you rarely get above 10k with a resorce pool close to 10k more than most people
two although not cc’ing you (you lost one duel) on cooldown still had you struggling for stam lucky you run essence Thief and it seems you’ve specced into ardent flame so you’re also seeing an improvement to your sustain from cumbustion aswell
first guy you dueled was he afk or just never dueled before (oh wait that’s your friend in this thread isnt it ?)
although you’ve lost your free clense, heal and crit damage from animal companions
Onslaught carried you more than anything
You also showcased just how weak the as the new flames of oblivion and inhale (specifically inhale you said it hit for only 6.7k with the onslaught crit and crazy full pen bonus 6.7k is nothing for the damage morph of the skill a 10k crit with full pen would have been worth talking about ) combined almost done less damage then hurricane alone with 100% uptime so they could probably do with a buff
Thanks for sharing your findings
My guy completely glossed over the screenshot showing Fissure and Soul of Flame having close tooltips. It's like talking to a brick wall.
I could literally wear 3 tank sets with zero sustain sets and you would still find some irrelevant reason to defend Inhale lol. You have demonstrated so much biasness in your comments, not only glossing over what I've presented, but also attacking premises I never made, that it's actually pointless to have any meaningful discussion with you.
This is exactly what happened when Hardened Ward was broken. People like you argued like this, ignoring the premise that is being discussed and arguing things that aren't. The funny thing is I so far I have been right in the concerns I brought up
Whether or not Inhale gets adjusted, I will abuse it when it goes live. I've done my job here
No I didn’t if you actually read my comment you’d understand that I myself also compared the example you gave
How’s it bias when you and two others on this thread have an issue with it (ones your friend and the other is now 50/50)
The other 60 odd people that have commented against you shows a significant ratio that can’t be ignored
I actually don’t think I’ve seen someone get ratio’d this hard ever 😂
0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭MXVIIDREAM wrote: »MXVIIDREAM wrote: »All you’ve proved in these clips is that essence Theif carried your stam sustain more than inhale with a pool much bigger than most players not many people with 30k stam and being at the lowest point and using inhale correctly you rarely get above 10k with a resorce pool close to 10k more than most people
two although not cc’ing you (you lost one duel) on cooldown still had you struggling for stam lucky you run essence Thief and it seems you’ve specced into ardent flame so you’re also seeing an improvement to your sustain from cumbustion aswell
first guy you dueled was he afk or just never dueled before (oh wait that’s your friend in this thread isnt it ?)
although you’ve lost your free clense, heal and crit damage from animal companions
Onslaught carried you more than anything
You also showcased just how weak the as the new flames of oblivion and inhale (specifically inhale you said it hit for only 6.7k with the onslaught crit and crazy full pen bonus 6.7k is nothing for the damage morph of the skill a 10k crit with full pen would have been worth talking about ) combined almost done less damage then hurricane alone with 100% uptime so they could probably do with a buff
Thanks for sharing your findings
My guy completely glossed over the screenshot showing Fissure and Soul of Flame having close tooltips. It's like talking to a brick wall.
I could literally wear 3 tank sets with zero sustain sets and you would still find some irrelevant reason to defend Inhale lol. You have demonstrated so much biasness in your comments, not only glossing over what I've presented, but also attacking premises I never made, that it's actually pointless to have any meaningful discussion with you.
This is exactly what happened when Hardened Ward was broken. People like you argued like this, ignoring the premise that is being discussed and arguing things that aren't. The funny thing is I so far I have been right in the concerns I brought up
Whether or not Inhale gets adjusted, I will abuse it when it goes live. I've done my job here
No I didn’t if you actually read my comment you’d understand that I myself also compared the example you gave
How’s it bias when you and two others on this thread have an issue with it (ones your friend and the other is now 50/50)
The other 60 odd people that have commented against you shows a significant ratio that can’t be ignored
I actually don’t think I’ve seen someone get ratio’d this hard ever 😂
Your comment brings up irrelevant points. It doesn't matter if I used Onslaught or Corrosive or whatever, and neither was the Win/Loss. The actual issue I wanted to show with those 3 duel videos was that I could comfortably sustain with 900 mag and 1100 stam recovery and ZERO tri pots. You bringing up Essence Thief was a valid point, but I never needed the stam sustain from it to begin with, and even if I swap to another set, you would have still found something irrelevant to nitpick instead of focusing on the actual point being discussed. Not only that, but Soul of Flame being an offensive ability already makes it better than pure sustain abilities. I was practically casting it off cooldown as part of my offensive rotation, whilst also boosting my sustain. This ability is basically identical to Essence Thief in function, and that makes it one of the best skills in the game, period.
Getting ratio-ed on the forums doesn't matter when more than half of them aren't good enough at PvP to present any meaningful arguments. I've gotten ratio-ed harder than this thread when I created the Hardened Ward nerf thread, and I ended up being right several months later when people found out it was in fact broken. News flash, most people on the forums argue off emotions, not numbers and in-game evidence. People like @Vaqual , @Turtle_Bot , and @xylena_lazarow , even if we don't come to an agreement, are still arguing in better faith than the majority of forum users.
Edited by hoangdz on January 22, 2026 9:43AM0
https://youtu.be/FCmgZjBfjZM
https://youtu.be/wTKZCqA5xiw
https://youtu.be/l8Wwj6pp0tY