valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Given how this thread has developed since I tagged Kevin, I just wanted to re-clarify that there's, imo, a distinct issue here of players asking to keep a convenient way to leave IC, to cover a variety of situations where someone just wants to leave and move on to a different activity, rather than trying to escape combat or bypass without tel-var loss.

I just want to make double sure that aspect of the issue is communicated back to the team and doesn't get lost in a larger discussion of the merits (or not) of getting rid of the telvar loss mechanic.

^ This exactly for me and many others.

While I wholeheartedly agree we need to fix the exploiting of current mechanics used to evade tel var loss when in combat, the way in which ZOS is doing this makes easy travel much more cumbersome. For me, this isn’t as much about any potential tel var loss as it is a hindrance to using my game time efficiently. As I said earlier, I’m fine with paying 50% of my tel var just to retain the ability to travel easily.

I really like the solution @ warm_blanket posted previously in this thread to:
1. Disable porting while in combat.
2. Allow it any other time but you lose 50% of your tel var unless you use a stone.

This would have close to the same net effect as death porting although I wouldn’t have to go to the trouble to search out mobs or the district boss.

BergisMacBride wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Given how this thread has developed since I tagged Kevin, I just wanted to re-clarify that there's, imo, a distinct issue here of players asking to keep a convenient way to leave IC, to cover a variety of situations where someone just wants to leave and move on to a different activity, rather than trying to escape combat or bypass without tel-var loss.

I just want to make double sure that aspect of the issue is communicated back to the team and doesn't get lost in a larger discussion of the merits (or not) of getting rid of the telvar loss mechanic.

^ This exactly for me and many others.

While I wholeheartedly agree we need to fix the exploiting of current mechanics used to evade tel var loss when in combat, the way in which ZOS is doing this makes easy travel much more cumbersome. For me, this isn’t as much about any potential tel var loss as it is a hindrance to using my game time efficiently. As I said earlier, I’m fine with paying 50% of my tel var just to retain the ability to travel easily.

I really like the solution @ warm_blanket posted previously in this thread to:
1. Disable porting while in combat.
2. Allow it any other time but you lose 50% of your tel var unless you use a stone.

This would have close to the same net effect as death porting although I wouldn’t have to go to the trouble to search out mobs or the district boss.

I would prefer this solution too.

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Given how this thread has developed since I tagged Kevin, I just wanted to re-clarify that there's, imo, a distinct issue here of players asking to keep a convenient way to leave IC, to cover a variety of situations where someone just wants to leave and move on to a different activity, rather than trying to escape combat or bypass tel-var loss.

I've never considered telvar loss when I've queued for Cyrodiil. I just want to leave IC. It never occured to me that I was supposed to make my way back to a safe spot so that those who enjoy PvP would have the chance to kill me and get half my telvar, and by porting out, I was depriving them of that. I'm not being facetious. I mean it. It demonstrates the different mindsets and reasons players have for going into IC.

I don't agree that when I'm in IC, I'm there to provide fodder for those who PvP and want telvar. I don't believe I owe them anything and would prefer the status quo, or ZOS just preventing people from porting out during combat. But to keep the peace, I'd be okay with the solution suggested above: that if you queue for Cyrodiil (outside of combat), you lose half your telvar. Alternatives would be just logging out or letting mobs kill me (because it's faster than having to go back to a safe spot). Anything would be better than an arbitrary telvar limit, especially one so low.

React wrote: »

Brother, that would literally just be an infinite telvar dupe lol.

What exactly would stop me from having my friend pull out 5 million telvar so that I can kill him and instantly generate 2.5 million telvar?

What would stop me from having my friend kill me after each time I did a loop of bosses, giving me an instant port back to base and giving him a free 32k+ telvar?

Meh. Something needs to be figured out, because this current system is rough for a lot of people. I actually like IC as a small-scale PvP zone. But it’s dying faster than Cyro, and this change will only make things worse.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

The way I see it, you should still get Tel Var equal to half of what the other person is carrying. They just don’t lose anything. Therein lies the win-win.

It is infinite Tel Var glitch I will take my 3M TV and let my friend kill me. Now we have 4.5M combined. Repeat until you have enough to buy entire ZeniMax Media.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

If you dont intermingle pve and pvp in some way, we never get cross pollination in the playerbase which helps keep people logged in.

More intermingling of PvP with PvE would be the fastest way to keep me logged out.

First of all, I'm not the biggest IC fan. At least on Xbox EU I never see like a bar up in IC. So most of the time you go there its really just PvE.

The time I go to IC is just for a daily or weekly endeavor. The thought alone of having to go through the sewers to get out, unable to tp out really makes it much less attracting to me to go there than it already is.

I mean you get like 100 telvar by finishing a quest easily.

In my opinion what should be done rather is don't let people who are actively in combat tp out, regardless of the amount of telvar stones you have on yourself. I don't see what the issue is, tping out, when there is NOBODY around anyway.

Afterall its supposed to be a PvP zone and you should never be allowed to tp out when you are actively in combat.

imPDA wrote: »

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men (we are here), and weak men create hard times. I really hope we will see PvP become more complicated and more rewarding, so better PvP players would be involved in it again.

Wild analogy for a declining video game. This isn’t “good times” and those who dislike the change aren’t “weak men”.

This isn’t a gym to come work out and get ready to fight a war. It is a largely PvE video game where most people don’t want to go into a PvP zone.

This change will make it even more sparsely populated, but the handful of people there will enjoy using 10k AP retreats or getting ganked at their base door.

AzuraFan wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

You say "more" like there is any in the game.

Cyrodiil and IC are PvPvE zones. Your proposal is different in that you could opt-out of the PvP part, which would be new.

This is the reason you have the opt out system like every other mmo. You literally would not need to participate.

That could work. It would change the Night Market to a PvP zone, though (because you have to opt-out of the PvP part). I'm not sure that would fly this year, given that quite a few players are disappointed that there's no new PvE zone, and others are disappointed that there are no new dungeons. Another zone in another season would probably be better received.

Then you make optional pvp with objectives that give bonuses to the pve side of things.

PvP objectives should award PvP bonuses, not PvE bonuses. There's already too much forcing/encouraging people to do activities they don't enjoy to get stuff that matches what they do enjoy in this game to want more of it. Less of that, please.

I'd be okay with an opt-in or opt-out PvPvE zone that awarded bonuses to PvP for those who participate in the PvP part.

Yeah I mean rewards/bonuses could play into both pve and pvp at the same time, TBD. Honestly it may help zos to be looking at the two combats in parallel. Also the temporary campaign rotation concept may help them iterate better to learn what works and what doesn't.

We see them attempting to get involved with pvp atleast. Although anyone who knows pvp can see how out of touch they are. They simply do not have the experience watching how pvp functions in their own game. It may help to work on it more first hand and see what different designs do.

Alright, so I have been keeping up with the conversation regarding Imperial City. There seems to be a bit of a hold-up on the concept of losing Tel Var Stones upon death. As the discussion continues, I would like to bring to the table the fact that, upon defeating enemies in the Imperial City, you don't just obtain Tel Var Stones. Gold, Equipment and (most importantly) Imperial Fragments drop as a reward that CANNOT DROP from you as you continue your dangerous journey around the Districts/Sewers. Effectively, this means that Tel Var Stone rewards (basically limited to a handful of sets and Hakeijos) are the icing on the cake with regards to Imperial City farming. So, as we go about this conversation, remember that you are being rewarded very handsomely with Imperial Fragments (I didn't even want to bring this to the table on the forums due to how lucrative these actually are but for the sake of argument here it is) even if you lose Tel Var Stones. These Fragments can get you all manner of crafting ingredients/reagents (even DLC ones that are hard to track down) and you cannot lose them by any means.

Try as some might, but using losing Tel Var Stones and attacking the PVP community as an excuse to justify an exploit isn't the play, friends. Many of us are just trying to maintain the ONLY awesome PvPvE environment available in an MMORPG akin to Dark Souls. The IC rewards you even if you lose your Tel Var Stones with the added rewards via Update 44 (Oct 2024) in the Imperial Fragment Vaults. TLDR; losing Tel Var Stones is nothing to worry about. The conversation can move onwards beyond lamenting the loss of an exploit. And yes... Thats how awesome the Imperial City actually is with its overflowing abundance of rewards just participating in playing there.

Markytous wrote: »

Alright, so I have been keeping up with the conversation regarding Imperial City. There seems to be a bit of a hold-up on the concept of losing Tel Var Stones upon death. As the discussion continues, I would like to bring to the table the fact that, upon defeating enemies in the Imperial City, you don't just obtain Tel Var Stones. Gold, Equipment and (most importantly) Imperial Fragments drop as a reward that CANNOT DROP from you as you continue your dangerous journey around the Districts/Sewers. Effectively, this means that Tel Var Stone rewards (basically limited to a handful of sets and Hakeijos) are the icing on the cake with regards to Imperial City farming. So, as we go about this conversation, remember that you are being rewarded very handsomely with Imperial Fragments (I didn't even want to bring this to the table on the forums due to how lucrative these actually are but for the sake of argument here it is) even if you lose Tel Var Stones. These Fragments can get you all manner of crafting ingredients/reagents (even DLC ones that are hard to track down) and you cannot lose them by any means.

Try as some might, but using losing Tel Var Stones and attacking the PVP community as an excuse to justify an exploit isn't the play, friends. Many of us are just trying to maintain the ONLY awesome PvPvE environment available in an MMORPG akin to Dark Souls. The IC rewards you even if you lose your Tel Var Stones with the added rewards via Update 44 (Oct 2024) in the Imperial Fragment Vaults. TLDR; losing Tel Var Stones is nothing to worry about. The conversation can move onwards beyond lamenting the loss of an exploit. And yes... Thats how awesome the Imperial City actually is with its overflowing abundance of rewards just participating in playing there.

I think the latest proposal from some players was to allow queueing with any amount when not in combat but taking 50% of telvar for that (basically an equivalent of blood porting). Because blood porting IS what people will be doing now to quickly get out of IC. I personally would prefer this solution to such low number like 100.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Alright, so I have been keeping up with the conversation regarding Imperial City. There seems to be a bit of a hold-up on the concept of losing Tel Var Stones upon death. As the discussion continues, I would like to bring to the table the fact that, upon defeating enemies in the Imperial City, you don't just obtain Tel Var Stones. Gold, Equipment and (most importantly) Imperial Fragments drop as a reward that CANNOT DROP from you as you continue your dangerous journey around the Districts/Sewers. Effectively, this means that Tel Var Stone rewards (basically limited to a handful of sets and Hakeijos) are the icing on the cake with regards to Imperial City farming. So, as we go about this conversation, remember that you are being rewarded very handsomely with Imperial Fragments (I didn't even want to bring this to the table on the forums due to how lucrative these actually are but for the sake of argument here it is) even if you lose Tel Var Stones. These Fragments can get you all manner of crafting ingredients/reagents (even DLC ones that are hard to track down) and you cannot lose them by any means.

Try as some might, but using losing Tel Var Stones and attacking the PVP community as an excuse to justify an exploit isn't the play, friends. Many of us are just trying to maintain the ONLY awesome PvPvE environment available in an MMORPG akin to Dark Souls. The IC rewards you even if you lose your Tel Var Stones with the added rewards via Update 44 (Oct 2024) in the Imperial Fragment Vaults. TLDR; losing Tel Var Stones is nothing to worry about. The conversation can move onwards beyond lamenting the loss of an exploit. And yes... Thats how awesome the Imperial City actually is with its overflowing abundance of rewards just participating in playing there.

I think the latest proposal from some players was to allow queueing with any amount when not in combat but taking 50% of telvar for that (basically an equivalent of blood porting). Because blood porting IS what people will be doing now to quickly get out of IC. I personally would prefer this solution to such low number like 100.

It definitely eliminates using it to exploit Tel Var Stones for financial gain. Having queuing be equivalent to a death doesn't seem like an issue to me. I still prefer not allowing queuing at all, as it was before IC and Cyro servers were seperated. Any way to prevent player from exploiting the queues to farm Tel Var Stones risk free seems like a win to me. Sigil of Imperial Retreat maintains its value for being the true way to TP out with your Tel Var haul. Could work.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Nothing would be lost for IC gameplay if the limit was upped a tiny a bit for porting. It's already how the game mode works. So, nothing can be lost as the pts is not how the game currently works. This is a proposed change for review and even a 500-1000 tv limit would be stricter than the parameters now.

Making even more people leave IC does not protect the integrity of the zone. It just makes it easier to farm stuff unopposed. It's supposed to be a PvP zone so PvP should actually be encouraged instead. Low rewards should come with low risk.

Up the limit a bit or put an in-combat restriction on leaving and it would accomplish the goal because then people wouldn't quit just because they don't want to be annoyed by even the most basic, simple tasks.

every since they moved IC out of CYRODIIL players has called out the exploit TPing was and asking for an fix when IC was part of CYRODIIL you couldnt TP out this change puts the game and zone back in line to how it is attended to be and thats an good thing

It has worked this way for years. And no, it wouldn't. You had to fight to even enter IC in the first place. This is a new way of doing things on the pts.

I don't think any change that would chase away PvPers is good for IC. Seems to me the only ones that benefit from an even more empty IC is people engaged in PvE farming.

There's no way that IC benefits from people quitting the zone or suiciding because literally nobody cares about 50 Tel-Var.

so if telvar plays no part in it then why not have TPing out seen as a death and have 50% of TPers telvar taken rather it be 2 telvar or 20k ?????/ because NO ONE WANTS TO LOSE

spartaxoxo wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Nothing would be lost for IC gameplay if the limit was upped a tiny a bit for porting. It's already how the game mode works. So, nothing can be lost as the pts is not how the game currently works. This is a proposed change for review and even a 500-1000 tv limit would be stricter than the parameters now.

Making even more people leave IC does not protect the integrity of the zone. It just makes it easier to farm stuff unopposed. It's supposed to be a PvP zone so PvP should actually be encouraged instead. Low rewards should come with low risk.

Up the limit a bit or put an in-combat restriction on leaving and it would accomplish the goal because then people wouldn't quit just because they don't want to be annoyed by even the most basic, simple tasks.

every since they moved IC out of CYRODIIL players has called out the exploit TPing was and asking for an fix when IC was part of CYRODIIL you couldnt TP out this change puts the game and zone back in line to how it is attended to be and thats an good thing

It has worked this way for years. And no, it wouldn't. You had to fight to even enter IC in the first place. This is a new way of doing things on the pts.

I don't think any change that would chase away PvPers is good for IC. Seems to me the only ones that benefit from an even more empty IC is people engaged in PvE farming.

There's no way that IC benefits from people quitting the zone or suiciding because literally nobody cares about 50 Tel-Var.

so if telvar plays no part in it then why not have TPing out seen as a death and have 50% of TPers telvar taken rather it be 2 telvar or 20k ?????/ because NO ONE WANTS TO LOSE

I would have no issue with being able to go back to base or join queue for half Tel-Var. I think that would be a fine alternative.

it be nice if EVERYONE would be ok with it tho i feel one should NEVER be able to TP out i too find 50% costs being an good way about doing this change

Even just doing a daily imperial city quest will get you over 100 tel var from killing a few mobs. So I go in to do an ic daily for a siege of cyrodiil merit then i have to run back to a sewer exit where some ganker is waiting and i get killed? Which part of that is fun gameplay?