Traumatic Burns and Group-Wide Flame Damage taken debuffs.

ESO_Nightingale · January 17

Hey @ZOS_Kevin I wanted to talk about the Traumatic Burns debuff since i think it's pretty problematic that it's still in the game given the feedback that's been given in the past.

For the longest time Engulfing Flames (Now Traumatic Burns) has created a bizarre situation where flame damage has been disproportionately valued higher than other damage types, often being the default damage type for many builds looking to maximise their dps. Encratis's behemoth, Traumatic Burns and the Morag Tong item sets are the only group buffing effects for specific damage types, and while the morag tong isn't used as often due to being a 5 piece bonus set and the sources of poison and disease damage being significantly harder to find than flame damage, the engulfing and encratis bonuses are much easier to aquire and justify as well as benefiting more skills. There is no equivalent bonus for shock, physical, magic or frost damage. I still, to this day, do not understand why this is still the case. Why does flame damage need to be better than other damage types in groups? why should flame damage be more important than being incentivised to use the damage types native to most people's classes?

is there a plan to create similar passives for warden, sorcerer, nightblade, etc for all of the different types of damage? or is flame just going to remain the best damage type for groups?

Radiate77 · January 17

Agree 100%. Sets that buff group-wide elements are incredibly fun to work around.

Imagine the fun you could have theorycrafting group comps without general buffs like, here’s 5% more damage to everything…

I would love to see a Frost or Lightning version of the sets you mentioned, or even just a pass on some of the Frost and Lightning sets we have currently that don’t perform even remotely close to our best options.

Turtle_Bot · January 17

Been asking for communication regarding this for a long time now. Even went into full detail on one thread comparing all damage types and their total percent bonuses (both solo and group wide) and it was shocking (excuse the pun) how bad lightning damage was compared to every other damage type (only +5% from Sorc passive and nothing else), but also how far ahead flame damage was, especially for group play.

For solo play at least, frost and bleed surprisingly came out ahead of flame damage (bleed has blooddrinker which is +20%) and frost has frostbite iirc that can reach up to +14% damage done alongside the winters embrace passive totaling around +18% iirc, whereas flame had like +16% for solo play, but for group play there is no other damage type that matches the bonuses flame damage gets.

Imo, another factor that has hurt the other damage types a lot, beyond the lack of buffs for most of them, is how the generic damage buffs have gotten so close to, or exceeded, these niche sets now, with sets like:
- deadly granting +15% to channels and DoTs
- tide-born granting +12% to direct damage (against monsters)
- essence thief granting +10% to everything (+ sustain and a heal)
- Velothi granting +15% against monsters
- malacath granting +16% to everything

There's zero need to build around a specific damage type anymore because the generic sets provide the same or more bonuses and are not limited to a single damage type.

YandereGirlfriend · January 17

Like others have said, these class elemental passives should be +Elemental Damage Done for the PLAYER ONLY so that we avoid the situation of enshrining Golden Child elements like Flame that warp the meta for years and years.

And then same deal with the element specific sets. Those are interesting in theory, but, a) not all elements are even covered, b) most of them are stupendously weak compared to generic meta stat sets.

ESO_Nightingale · January 18

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Like others have said, these class elemental passives should be +Elemental Damage Done for the PLAYER ONLY so that we avoid the situation of enshrining Golden Child elements like Flame that warp the meta for years and years.

And then same deal with the element specific sets. Those are interesting in theory, but, a) not all elements are even covered, b) most of them are stupendously weak compared to generic meta stat sets.

Huge agree.

flizomica · January 18

Ive enjoyed each class *historically* having a meaningful and unique group-wide buff/debuff, to incentivize group comp diversity. With hybridization, itemization, and subclassing, diversity has severly diminished.

Id therefore still like to see DK keep some sort of appealing buff/debuff, but it would also be cool to see the flame damage debuff be only for the user *and* be significantly stronger. That would incentivize DKs to use flame damage specific sets, instead of the generic increase of all damage/direct damage/etc sets that are currently meta. It would also incentivize sticking to "pure" classing or perhaps subclassing into lines that also have some flame damage.

Essentially, anything that encourages more build diversity and thoughtfulness with build crafting, instead of just being able to pick the same skill lines or sets that just give raw, but boring power (e.g. Assassination just for crit passives, Ansuul for % damage done, etc.) is highly appreciated.

Radiate77 · January 18

flizomica wrote: »

Ive enjoyed each class *historically* having a meaningful and unique group-wide buff/debuff, to incentivize group comp diversity. With hybridization, itemization, and subclassing, diversity has severly diminished.

Id therefore still like to see DK keep some sort of appealing buff/debuff, but it would also be cool to see the flame damage debuff be only for the user *and* be significantly stronger. That would incentivize DKs to use flame damage specific sets, instead of the generic increase of all damage/direct damage/etc sets that are currently meta. It would also incentivize sticking to "pure" classing or perhaps subclassing into lines that also have some flame damage.

Essentially, anything that encourages more build diversity and thoughtfulness with build crafting, instead of just being able to pick the same skill lines or sets that just give raw, but boring power (e.g. Assassination just for crit passives, Ansuul for % damage done, etc.) is highly appreciated.

I’ve been thinking on this, and yeah I kind of agree when it comes to this passive, and this would be a smart way to go about future reworks.

We already have something similar with Winter’s Embrace where the Chilled status effect gets a huge boost, and that is just for the user.

robpr · 11:51AM

Even if you remove the bonus for the group, flame damage will pull ahead because Burning is generally better status effect than Chill and Concuss on anything other than Wardens.
There is a reason almost everybody run flame/poison glyphs on their weapons.

ZhuJiuyin · 1:35PM

Contrary to popular belief, Concussion is actually the strongest status effect.

This is my CMX; I'm basically naked, and to avoid the passive effect of Destruction Staff affecting the result, I used frost Staff.

After excluding all damage buffs, we can see that if the trigger frequency is higher, Concussion's damage is actually higher than Burning's. This is because if Concussion triggers consecutively within 4 seconds, increasing damage by 15%.

The reason people think Burning is powerful, besides the 11% extra fire damage provided by Old-DK and Encratis's Behemoth, is that the trigger probability of status effects is usually not able to reach once every 4 seconds.

I think a better way to balance Concussion, Burning, and Chilled is to provide different passives in different classes, such as New-DK providing a 7% damage over time bonus, and Warden's Glacial Presence. If Concussion is to be buffed in the future, it would be desirable for the developers to allow Sorc to have a higher chance of triggering, enabling Concussion to trigger multiple times within 4 seconds, or to allow Sorc to provide a 7% direct damage buff similar to that of the New-DK.

robpr · 3:00PM

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, Concussion is actually the strongest status effect.

This is my CMX; I'm basically naked, and to avoid the passive effect of Destruction Staff affecting the result, I used frost Staff.

After excluding all damage buffs, we can see that if the trigger frequency is higher, Concussion's damage is actually higher than Burning's. This is because if Concussion triggers consecutively within 4 seconds, increasing damage by 15%.

The reason people think Burning is powerful, besides the 11% extra fire damage provided by Old-DK and Encratis's Behemoth, is that the trigger probability of status effects is usually not able to reach once every 4 seconds.

I think a better way to balance Concussion, Burning, and Chilled is to provide different passives in different classes, such as New-DK providing a 7% damage over time bonus, and Warden's Glacial Presence. If Concussion is to be buffed in the future, it would be desirable for the developers to allow Sorc to have a higher chance of triggering, enabling Concussion to trigger multiple times within 4 seconds, or to allow Sorc to provide a 7% direct damage buff similar to that of the New-DK.

It is like this since they added concussion stacking in Gold Road (I think), only truly achievable by Sorc pet spec.

What I meant by generally better is more easily avaiable and additionally buffing Wall of Elements. I think fully stacked Hemorrhaging does even better damage than fully stacked Concussion.