Been asking for communication regarding this for a long time now. Even went into full detail on one thread comparing all damage types and their total percent bonuses (both solo and group wide) and it was shocking (excuse the pun) how bad lightning damage was compared to every other damage type (only +5% from Sorc passive and nothing else), but also how far ahead flame damage was, especially for group play.

For solo play at least, frost and bleed surprisingly came out ahead of flame damage (bleed has blooddrinker which is +20%) and frost has frostbite iirc that can reach up to +14% damage done alongside the winters embrace passive totaling around +18% iirc, whereas flame had like +16% for solo play, but for group play there is no other damage type that matches the bonuses flame damage gets.

Imo, another factor that has hurt the other damage types a lot, beyond the lack of buffs for most of them, is how the generic damage buffs have gotten so close to, or exceeded, these niche sets now, with sets like:
- deadly granting +15% to channels and DoTs
- tide-born granting +12% to direct damage (against monsters)
- essence thief granting +10% to everything (+ sustain and a heal)
- Velothi granting +15% against monsters
- malacath granting +16% to everything

There's zero need to build around a specific damage type anymore because the generic sets provide the same or more bonuses and are not limited to a single damage type.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Like others have said, these class elemental passives should be +Elemental Damage Done for the PLAYER ONLY so that we avoid the situation of enshrining Golden Child elements like Flame that warp the meta for years and years.

And then same deal with the element specific sets. Those are interesting in theory, but, a) not all elements are even covered, b) most of them are stupendously weak compared to generic meta stat sets.

Huge agree.

flizomica wrote: »

Ive enjoyed each class *historically* having a meaningful and unique group-wide buff/debuff, to incentivize group comp diversity. With hybridization, itemization, and subclassing, diversity has severly diminished.

Id therefore still like to see DK keep some sort of appealing buff/debuff, but it would also be cool to see the flame damage debuff be only for the user *and* be significantly stronger. That would incentivize DKs to use flame damage specific sets, instead of the generic increase of all damage/direct damage/etc sets that are currently meta. It would also incentivize sticking to "pure" classing or perhaps subclassing into lines that also have some flame damage.

Essentially, anything that encourages more build diversity and thoughtfulness with build crafting, instead of just being able to pick the same skill lines or sets that just give raw, but boring power (e.g. Assassination just for crit passives, Ansuul for % damage done, etc.) is highly appreciated.

I’ve been thinking on this, and yeah I kind of agree when it comes to this passive, and this would be a smart way to go about future reworks.

We already have something similar with Winter’s Embrace where the Chilled status effect gets a huge boost, and that is just for the user.

Contrary to popular belief, Concussion is actually the strongest status effect.

This is my CMX; I'm basically naked, and to avoid the passive effect of Destruction Staff affecting the result, I used frost Staff.




After excluding all damage buffs, we can see that if the trigger frequency is higher, Concussion's damage is actually higher than Burning's. This is because if Concussion triggers consecutively within 4 seconds, increasing damage by 15%.

The reason people think Burning is powerful, besides the 11% extra fire damage provided by Old-DK and Encratis's Behemoth, is that the trigger probability of status effects is usually not able to reach once every 4 seconds.

I think a better way to balance Concussion, Burning, and Chilled is to provide different passives in different classes, such as New-DK providing a 7% damage over time bonus, and Warden's Glacial Presence. If Concussion is to be buffed in the future, it would be desirable for the developers to allow Sorc to have a higher chance of triggering, enabling Concussion to trigger multiple times within 4 seconds, or to allow Sorc to provide a 7% direct damage buff similar to that of the New-DK.

I think they should just be removed. I don't think encouraging homogenization in groups adds anything to the game. I'd like to see this one exchanged for causing the target to take higher status effect damage, or something similar.

I wouldn’t mind if they was added to just the player alone and made stronger to be honest this would probably go along way in the community

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

I wouldn’t mind if they was added to just the player alone and made stronger to be honest this would probably go along way in the community

yeah, either this or a less restrictive group buff.

@ZOS_Kevin i was wondering if we could get any word on this topic?

There should be sets that do this. It's a terrible idea for both pure classes and subclassing.

Rather than pick a pure class you will combine Dk, Dot and Fire buff with another lines Single Target buff if they ever get one. You cal already do this with Winter's Embrace Draconic Power or Storm Calling and Draconic Power, but you can never validate building storm calling with ardent flame because the damage doesn't stack. It both restricts subclassing and makes certain subclasses 10% more viable than others. That is NOT balancing the skill lines.

ZOS should remove all damage type bonuses from all classes and even Destro Staff.

There are currently this many on the PTS: Fire, AoE/DoT, Shock, Phys, Frost, DoT, Direct.

Do we really want each class to only be able to do one type of thing or damage type? Even within the DK it already has anti synergies with their direct single target damage abilities like Molten Whip, Magma Fist, and Shattering Rocks. Ardent Flame should only do Fire damage, but the other lines should have some variety like bleed, phys, poison, shock, and frost.

Bring back some poison damage on DK and let Engulfing Dragonfire (change name to dragon breath) do frost or shock if you have the respective staff equipped.

ESO dragons don't just breath fire and they don't procreate... so what is with Protect the Brood, the Wing Buffet morph name?

I don’t see a problem with it personally I feel like the only “issue” is fomo
Which until the entire refresh is laid out and done shouldn’t be an issue because we have no idea what classes are going to also gain what damage

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

I don’t see a problem with it personally I feel like the only “issue” is fomo
Which until the entire refresh is laid out and done shouldn’t be an issue because we have no idea what classes are going to also gain what damage

The issue is like 12 years of Flame Damage being mechanically enshrined as the Golden Child element for all things PvE.

It's lame and boring and absurdly unfair to anyone who doesn't want to Keep Calm And Spec Into Flame Damage.

Classes should buff themselves with whatever elemental affinity makes sense. DKs should give themselves Flame Damage bonuses not the entire group.

This is another case of "Obviously DK mains don't see an issue because they benefit from the status quo" but everyone else is asking them to look beyond their narrow self-interest and spare a thought for the rest of us.

But like I said we don’t know what’s coming and it’s probably best to wait and see rather than nerf away, we haven’t been given much insight granted but if other classes get a “type” of damage they apply then it’s great for everyone ?

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

I don’t see a problem with it personally I feel like the only “issue” is fomo
Which until the entire refresh is laid out and done shouldn’t be an issue because we have no idea what classes are going to also gain what damage

The issue is like 12 years of Flame Damage being mechanically enshrined as the Golden Child element for all things PvE.

It's lame and boring and absurdly unfair to anyone who doesn't want to Keep Calm And Spec Into Flame Damage.

Classes should buff themselves with whatever elemental affinity makes sense. DKs should give themselves Flame Damage bonuses not the entire group.

This is another case of "Obviously DK mains don't see an issue because they benefit from the status quo" but everyone else is asking them to look beyond their narrow self-interest and spare a thought for the rest of us.

But like I said we don’t know what’s coming and it’s probably best to wait and see rather than nerf away, we haven’t been given much insight granted but if other classes get a “type” of damage they apply then it’s great for everyone ?

We don't want Warden to have a matching "7% group Frost Damage" buff or Sorc to have a "7% group Shock Damage" buff, etc. either.

That is like the Incredibles, "If everyone is super then nobody is super" philosophy... but the most direct path toward making sure that nobody is "super" is by making sure that these weird and unnecessary group elemental buffs don't exist in the first place.

Classes should buff themselves in interesting ways because they are the ones with the affinity toward the given element, not their party members.

The group debuffs are literally the devs putting their finger on the scales of balance and saying, "Yes, thou shalt choose Flame Damage because we have made it the most mechanically efficient damage element" and that's woefully flawed design.

agreed. i'd very much like to see it be reworked or only work for self.