SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

The arguments against solo mode are not weak. The only way solo/story mode doesn't break the game for players who play MMO's for grouping and socializing is if there are no rewards.

If there are not the same rewards as in a group dungeon, but for less time or less work.
Fixed it for you.

Different rewards for solo and group modes make it totally OK.

No effort should lead to no rewards.

Story mode and solo mode should give no rewards. Agreed.

If people want the rewards they should have to do the group content with other players.

With the exception of two solo trials, all end game content is group content. [snip]

Solo mode is fine so long as there are no rewards for it.

I disagree and would advocate for the best value being exclusive to the harder difficulties as in vastly increased rewards for Hard Mode, no change for Normal Mode and basic overland gear and delve level of rewards for the Story Mode.
[edited to remove quote]

Those who believe that "introducing solo dungeons will actually make it easier to find groups using the group finder" – haven't you considered that tanks and healers will also use solo dungeons because they're easier to complete?They just need change to use dps build. Ultimately, the significantly reduced user base using the finder will only make finding groups more difficult, not the other way around.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Those who believe that "introducing solo dungeons will actually make it easier to find groups using the group finder" – haven't you considered that tanks and healers will also use solo dungeons because they're easier to complete?They just need change to use dps build. Ultimately, the significantly reduced user base using the finder will only make finding groups more difficult, not the other way around.

I only tank or heal outside of guilds in order to quickly get daily rewards. I haven't needed daily rewards for several months now, as my build is currently complete. So I haven't been grouping or taking those roles.
Solo dungeons won't effect my tanking or healing, personally. They will just allow me to play the game and experience the stories on my own, which is a separate objective than the random daily in group finders.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Those who believe that "introducing solo dungeons will actually make it easier to find groups using the group finder" – haven't you considered that tanks and healers will also use solo dungeons because they're easier to complete?They just need change to use dps build. Ultimately, the significantly reduced user base using the finder will only make finding groups more difficult, not the other way around.

If you’re a support main why would you stop playing support to make a dps build to solo a dungeon? You can’t play support in solo, the only person to support there is yourself. It’s a different play experience. Real supports are hardly worth having in normals anyways so why would easier to complete be a factor here? If anything, queueing normal as a support would be easier to complete because of how little damage normal throws out.

Edit: The one support who came in here and said they would play solo dungeons as a support even had the caveat that it would be if there were NPCs that did the other roles so they could still play a healer.

As far as I know, some people play tanks or healers because the queues for DPS are too long. If a solo mode is introduced, these people will switch to solo mode, thus reducing the number of tanks and healers using the finder. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying solo mode is bad, but I don't think it will speed up matchmaking; it will only make matchmaking longer.

Ahhh okay. Yes, that is a good point. That said, I think it’d depend on reward structure and if those individuals find solo mode enjoyable.

I just want to know in what strange alternate reality are hardcore group players chosen to decide what solo players enjoy?

It's like the devs have to run everything by them or something?

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I just want to know in what strange alternate reality are hardcore group players chosen to decide what solo players enjoy?

It's like the devs have to run everything by them or something?

It’s concern for the health of our content and growth of our community. That said, part of me wonders if decreased usage of the dungeon finder would push more people to use guilds for their 4-man content, which would be a more positive experience.

I’m still of the opinion that potential 4-man players would find it more enjoyable to do solo first then do 4-man as another way to experience the content & to get rewards. It’d decrease stress as mechanics are already known and, well, pure solo players who would never be interested in 4-man content exist and them doing solo mode has no influence on the queue or community growth.

Edit:

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I just want to know in what strange alternate reality are hardcore group players chosen to decide what solo players enjoy?

It's like the devs have to run everything by them or something?

Given that the only solo content is overland and public dungeons and delves it's safe to assume that's what solo players are doing. All end game content is group content, so no solo players are playing the vast majority of the content in ESO and aren't participating in any end game activities.

Neither of those two statements are true. You’re still ignoring solo arenas, solo tri dungeons, and IA. As far as I’m aware, there is a solo endgame community. It’s just very small.

It's nonsensical anyway but since it came up in this thread several times: If ESO's future direction should be defined by the majority of its content (and the players who play it), in hours of unique (non-repeating) playable content, most content ESO has is probably overland quests. 40 hours per chapter (x8), 20 hours per dlc (also 8 I think it is?), plus whatever Solstice was (I'd say no matter how it was named, it had the scope of a winter dlc). And the base game with its three factions also easily adds a few hundred hours more to that.

So should ESO limit its focus on that and give up all other content types? Surely not.

Should only people who have taken the 1000+ hours to finish all zone story content make all decisions, including about systems they might have never used? Makes no sense either.

And yes, I'm aware there are people who played all story content plus dungeons and trials or plus PvP, or some have played all story content on several characters, or some might not have played all zones but spent the same amount of time on other PvE or PvP activities; and seriously, people can play whatever they want, it's their freetime and no one else's business. If their main activity in ESO is picking flowers and selling them, fine with me. Being bothered about how other people play a game - on their own even - seems like a waste of time to me.

Decisions about the game should be made by ZOS, feedback should ideally be given by intelligent people who can think beyond their own benefit and individual likings, keeping the overall picture in mind, about things they are knowledgeable about. Trialists about trials, dungeoneers about dungeons, housing people about housing, people well-versed in terms of lore about lore topics, etc. Obviously.

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

"Soarora wrote: »

Ahhh okay. Yes, that is a good point. That said, I think it’d depend on reward structure and if those individuals find solo mode enjoyable.

Yes, if the rewards for solo dungeons are significantly lower than those for group dungeons, that might be avoided, for example, by only dropping map sets instead of dungeon sets, as someone mentioned earlier. This would keep group dungeons attractive. I even think there should be extra rewards for tanks and healers on Veteran difficulty and above in the DLC, because tanks and healers have a significant responsibility in these dungeons and deserve some incentive.

Yeah, at the moment we don't have all the information we need on the subject. I still want solo dungeons, but I don't want them to be the main way to get sets. Grouping should be the main way to get those (this is coming from someone who tries to solo dungeons anyway because I want to get the story experience at least once). I would say at best, for the first completion of the quest, maybe a single random dungeon set. If quest repeats, only give gold. Personally would rather the dungeon sets not be focused on and only include overland sets because the difficulty would match that as a reward. Regardless, skill point for quest completion should always be given as that was the main pain point to dungeon runs. We mostly have to wait until we reach season 2 (near the end of the year) for more in-depth information on the topic because we only have speculation to work with.

I understand this logic and it's been said here often.

But I also want to share that sometimes grouping to farm a certain set is MORE difficult and time consuming to get going than to just solo dungeons already. And because of that, I have been and likely will continue to solo dungeons in order to get gear, because it's usually more effective if it's not a brand new dungeon everyone is in for the fad.

So, that makes it hard for me to say whether or not gear should be "behind group content" because a lot of it already isn't, in how many solo players already play.

Maybe the dungeon finder shouldn't limit roles. That would speed up group finding.
4 DPS can easily clear most dungeons, even vets. Self healing and awareness help, of course.
3 DPS and a tank, easy peasy!

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I just want to know in what strange alternate reality are hardcore group players chosen to decide what solo players enjoy?

It's like the devs have to run everything by them or something?

Given that the only solo content is overland and public dungeons and delves it's safe to assume that's what solo players are doing. All end game content is group content, so no solo players are playing the vast majority of the content in ESO and aren't participating in any end game activities.

Hey, I totally get where you're coming from—when people talk about "endgame" in ESO, trials and other big group stuff usually steal the spotlight. But honestly, solo players have a ton of really challenging and rewarding content that's definitely part of the endgame scene too.

Things like veteran Maelstrom Arena (vMA) and Vateshran Hollows (vVH) are no joke—they're super tough, they have leaderboards, and plenty of people grind them for hundreds of runs chasing titles, skins, and personal records. Then you've got the Infinite Archive, which has become a huge deal for solo players. The true solo leaderboards (no companions allowed) get wild—people are pushing crazy high arcs like Arc 33 world records. That's some seriously elite play right there.

A bunch of veteran DLC dungeons are already fully soloable on vet with a solid build, including hard modes for those extra achievements—players are out there knocking out trifectas (no death, speedrun, and hard mode) like it's nothing. Normal dungeons? Most decent builds steamroll them.

And with the 2026 roadmap dropping official solo modes for veteran dungeons like Moon Hunter Keep and March of Sacrifices, solo dungeon grinding is about to explode—expect dedicated leaderboards, achievements, and it dominating the solo endgame meta big time.

Solo trials? They're throwing in a brand new trial too, and with this push toward more solo-friendly endgame, it's only a matter of time before we see viable solo options or modes there as well.

Even overland isn't just "basic"—you've got world bosses, tough public dungeon bosses, zone quests, dailies, and all the progression tied to them. Plus, lots of solo players sink serious time into housing, collecting outfits (fashion endgame is real), motif hunting, or hopping into solo PvP.

Bottom line: solo players aren't missing out on endgame at all. They're out there competing on dedicated...and solo gameplay is going to be huge going forward....also you might as well give up on the whole solo players not getting rewards...as that's never going to happen they could give out excellent rewards and even tie the solo dungeons into the golden per suits.

frogthroat wrote: »

HedgeHugger wrote: »

Maybe the dungeon finder shouldn't limit roles. That would speed up group finding.
4 DPS can easily clear most dungeons, even vets. Self healing and awareness help, of course.
3 DPS and a tank, easy peasy!

Some people don't care about the roles. Others do. The default should be that the roles are as they are.

I do have an idea that is a bit like your idea, but it would be optional.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/686312/possible-solution-to-fake-roles-in-the-dungeon-finder

uhhh no. i've had so many rvds fail because someone was fake tanking or fake healing, and if you kick a fake tank you never refill the group because for some reason this game doesn't put you at front of queue when you're missing a member. roles exist for a reason and should keep being enforced for random finder.

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Another major driver behind solo dungeon options is reducing group finder queue times as the overall player population continues to decline.

Exactly this. Last time i queued as Healer for a undaunted Pledge dungeon i waited an hour before logging off. Solo Dungeons are probably the only long term way to enable players to do dungeons at all.

saaaame (healer too). i sometimes have undaunted pledges from like a week ago or more since i do them sporadically and mainly do random dungeon queue so when i specific queue those... hopefully undaunted pledges will count these solo dungeons as well or maybe even give us a new undaunted pledge just for them.

Kappachi wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

HedgeHugger wrote: »

Maybe the dungeon finder shouldn't limit roles. That would speed up group finding.
4 DPS can easily clear most dungeons, even vets. Self healing and awareness help, of course.
3 DPS and a tank, easy peasy!

Some people don't care about the roles. Others do. The default should be that the roles are as they are.

I do have an idea that is a bit like your idea, but it would be optional.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/686312/possible-solution-to-fake-roles-in-the-dungeon-finder

uhhh no. i've had so many rvds fail because someone was fake tanking or fake healing, and if you kick a fake tank you never refill the group because for some reason this game doesn't put you at front of queue when you're missing a member. roles exist for a reason and should keep being enforced for random finder.

Did you read my idea in that discussion I linked? It would improve also this situation you describe.

Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. When I play ESO, I’m always playing with other people. Maybe I’m soloing a dungeon, but I’m also chatting with people in one of my guilds or a friend. That’s what the multiplayer in MMO means for me, not being forced to group up with other players. Single player RPGs just don’t feel the same way - they are more like reading an interactive book. There’s plenty of both solo and group content all the way throughout this game all the way up to endgame for people to do.

People do the content they want to do - forcing them to do a type of content they don’t want to do is more likely to make them leave than offering solo dungeons as an option.

This is an Elder Scrolls game. I play how I want to play and I prefer playing solo.

I’ll occasionally jump into a vet trial. But I’m a solo endgame player whose curious about the Elder Scrolls stories, mythologies, lore, religions, cultures, traditions, philosophies, and worldbuilding. Mainly because I’m an artist in real life. I enjoy pausing and taking screenshots that’s inspired by epic film cinematographies and dramatic paintings. Solo dungeon caters to me and a large majority of players while still preserving group endgame content for those who prefer it. In fact, there are several guilds dedicated to endgame group content.

The only thing I’ve been waiting for is Overland/questing difficulty options - which are coming thankfully. Once that hits, I’ll finally start the Daedric War arc and continue onto Elsweyr and so on.