If there was a free version of the Craft Bag would you still Subscribe?

bmnoble · January 15

Yes

At the minimum If they had a free version of the craft bag and the double bank space, then I would consider cancelling my subscription.

SilverBride · January 15

Yes

bmnoble wrote: »

At the minimum If they had a free version of the craft bag and the double bank space, then I would consider cancelling my subscription.

That is what I am afraid will happen. Then they will have less revenue coming in and we will start getting even less content, and it's already gotten bad enough this year.

Jhava · January 15

No

It's not that the craft bag is the only value of subscription for me, but that it alone out values every thing still left if removed. They would need a serious rework of ESO+ to keep me paying.

LalMirchi · January 15

No

Was looking for the "Maybe" poll option but sometimes just thinking of this game even when offline gives me inventory nightmares.

If one is used to doing many activities and always looting chests, containers etc the little imaginary backpack fills up quite fast. Then the problem arises: very little of the loot is ever valuable.

For this problem we have purchasable banker and trader helpers.

But without the ESO+ Craft Bag the crafting materials just rapidly clogging up my regular inventory would be a disaster.

Cooperharley · January 15

No

I mean... nah. I'm not going to pay $15/mo or even $10/mo for the ability to dye costumes and have a very slightly decreased research time, higher transmute cap (which i never hit anyways generally as I'm always experimenting with new builds), etc.

Equating that to a complete loss of revenue though is not really a true tbh. I still support the game heavily monetarily outside of the subscription. Free to play games with a battle pass and cosmetic store almost always generate significantly more anyways as far as i know, which is the model we're moving towards. I don't think they're removing the craft bag though regardless unless they bring new stuff to ESO+ to replace it.

Edit: to add, I think they'd make more money than the sub alone actually if they broke off the craft bag and sold it separately and just added more perks to ESO+ that still made it enticing.

SilverBride · January 15

Yes

Cooperharley wrote: »

I think they'd make more money than the sub alone actually if they broke off the craft bag and sold it separately and just added more perks to ESO+ that still made it enticing.

A few players have brought up the idea of replacing it with something comparable, but what could it be? Do you have any ideas?

Cooperharley · January 15

No

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

I think they'd make more money than the sub alone actually if they broke off the craft bag and sold it separately and just added more perks to ESO+ that still made it enticing.

A few players have brought up the idea of replacing it with something comparable, but what could it be? Do you have any ideas?

I think giving you the next tier up of the battle pass for free would go a long way. So you have free - premium - premium+ currently. Give ESO+ players premium for free, keep the other perks we currently have and add in some of those little trade bar things for the gold coast bazaar each month. Also, regardless I believe they do 1650 crowns for ESO+ and the same exact price for buying crowns alone gives you 1500 anyways. So if you're planning on buying 1500 crowns, it's always better just to get a month of ESO+ anyways.

I just don't think creating friction in a game to drive you to the store is a good move. You should attract people to a system because it's attractive on it's own, not because you introduce a bunch of friction in the game and sell the solution.

Edit: to clarify - one of the biggest pain points for EVERY new player is inventory space. ESO has an unbelieveable amount of things that can go in your inventory and either selling the craft bag or even giving it to your players as a base game feature would go such a long way and would make the game feel better up front. I've played the game forever and love it regardless, but i've had many friends get burnt out over time and leave and cite the inventory as one of several main issues! So fingers crossed

AzuraFan · January 15

No

Cooperharley wrote: »

I think giving you the next tier up of the battle pass for free would go a long way. So you have free - premium - premium+ currently. Give ESO+ players premium for free, keep the other perks we currently have and add in some of those little trade bar things for the gold coast bazaar each month. Also, regardless I believe they do 1650 crowns for ESO+ and the same exact price for buying crowns alone gives you 1500 anyways. So if you're planning on buying 1500 crowns, it's always better just to get a month of ESO+ anyways.

I wouldn't sub to ESO+ if they replaced the craft bag with what you suggest. I'm not going to sub for a tome that lets me work for some cosmetics. And I'd just buy crowns if I wanted them, which wouldn't be very often.

AScarlato · January 15

Cooperharley wrote: »

I just don't think creating friction in a game to drive you to the store is a good move. You should attract people to a system because it's attractive on it's own, not because you introduce a bunch of friction in the game and sell the solution.

Funny enough they are talking about the craft bag on the ESO reddit, which is also a community pretty supportive of ESO. Sometimes I feel like I am in the twilight zone of being in the minority of feeling this way and expected to design solutions to for the devs to fix this feeling.

But, the Top comment by a HUGE margin among a community larger than the 30 or 50 of us here that regularly comment:

Just perspective about how a broader consumer base may feel.

Cooperharley · January 15

No

AzuraFan wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

I think giving you the next tier up of the battle pass for free would go a long way. So you have free - premium - premium+ currently. Give ESO+ players premium for free, keep the other perks we currently have and add in some of those little trade bar things for the gold coast bazaar each month. Also, regardless I believe they do 1650 crowns for ESO+ and the same exact price for buying crowns alone gives you 1500 anyways. So if you're planning on buying 1500 crowns, it's always better just to get a month of ESO+ anyways.

I wouldn't sub to ESO+ if they replaced the craft bag with what you suggest. I'm not going to sub for a tome that lets me work for some cosmetics. And I'd just buy crowns if I wanted them, which wouldn't be very often.

I mean that's fine. There are some people that literally just do it for the craft bag. I think people would STILL sub. Not 100% of the same customers, but a decent amount is the point. But the money they make with the season pass & selling the craft bag would make up for it IMO.

SilverBride · January 15

Yes

I personally have no interest in the battle pass, but I know others do. Í just don't want to see the sub devalued any more than they already have, and am afraid that if they did replace the crafting bag with another perk that it may not be something that most players would be happy with.

Cooperharley · January 15

No

AScarlato wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

I just don't think creating friction in a game to drive you to the store is a good move. You should attract people to a system because it's attractive on it's own, not because you introduce a bunch of friction in the game and sell the solution.

Funny enough they are talking about the craft bag on the ESO reddit, which is also a community pretty supportive of ESO. Sometimes I feel like I am in the twilight zone of being in the minority of feeling this way and expected to design solutions to for the devs to fix this feeling.

But, the Top comment by a HUGE margin among a community larger than the 30 or 50 of us here that regularly comment:

Just perspective about how a broader consumer base may feel.

Yea I mean ultimately that was a very prevalent theme in ZOS's monetization for a while. IMO, this doesn't just go for inventory, but if you think of skyshard hunting, lorebook hunting/mage's guild skill line, psijic, excavation/scrying, research, you name it. There is an excessive amount of grindiness, even for an MMO, and arbitrary time gating that then has a solution sold in the crown store. That's not on accident. I also understand that some enjoy that stuff and call it "character progression" or whatever, but in general, many don't and they're common themes outside of combat taste, for why people take breaks or leave.

I think the direction they're heading in with the new QOL team is fantastic and I'm extremely excited about it because it FEELS like a lot of this may heavily decrease at the very least, over time. U49 and beyond looks fantastic IMO from that perspective for sure!

I also think with Project Blackbird being axed, ESO is all ZOS has got left and with the player numbers decreasing a good bit over the last 4-5 years, they can't afford to continue losing players, so taking out some of this friction and improving rewards to improve player experience and resulting reputation of the game is huge.

Just my thoughts!

Edit: spelling/clarification

Erickson9610 · January 16

Yes

I subscribe to ESO Plus for many reasons. One reason is that I don't buy Crown bundles — I just save up the Crowns from ESO Plus to use toward purchases. Granted, now I'll likely spend money on the Premium Passes if they have any Werewolf cosmetics in them, but I at least feel good about getting a free Premium Pass + every 12 months with ESO Plus.

AzuraFan · January 16

No

SilverBride wrote: »

I personally have no interest in the battle pass, but I know others do. Í just don't want to see the sub devalued any more than they already have, and am afraid that if they did replace the crafting bag with another perk that it may not be something that most players would be happy with.

Same. The new perk of getting a premium tome every 12 months doesn't interest me all that much. In fact, the premium tomes (both levels) don't interest me. They reward cosmetics, from what I understand. To me, buying a tome to get the higher level rewards is like buying a golden pursuit, though I'll have to see what they look like to know for sure. If one occasionally has a cosmetic that I really want, I'd buy it, but it's not the sort of thing I'd subscribe to.

As for the craft bag, I agree that ZOS deliberately designed stuff to make the craft bag a really attractive item. Other games do the same thing but it's not as obvious. I don't like it, but this is where we are.

Having said that, I was a new player once. When I realized that I liked the game, but I hated the inventory restrictions, I had three choices: quit, play without ESO+ and deal with the inconvenience, or subscribe. I subscribed, and given how many have responded that they'd cancel ESO+ if the craft bag went away, a lot of players made the same choice. Sometimes you just have to pay for convenience, if you want it.

There's another thread regarding paywalling the craft bag so I won't repeat what I said there. I'll just say I don't see them ever giving away the craft bag for free unless there's a big change to how they monetize the game.

ChaoticWings3 · January 16

Yes

Craft bag is a big reason but another reason that I recently discovered since it ran out is I lost a ton of furnishing and bank space which was kind of important to me tbh.

Craft bag is still the biggest reason to subscribe though atm. 99% of lootables will contain crafting ingredients. Thankfully, you don't have to get rid of ingredients you don't want for 0 gold (everything is 1 gold or above now so at least you get something back). But still, that's a lot of micromanaging that most players don't want to deal with. Wish there was a maybe option for the poll because I'm kind of more in the middle. But I tend to have a bunch of stuff in the bank because 240 ain't enough space for me.

Soarora · January 16

Yes

I was surprised that yes was leading at the start. The poll now looks more how I expected, though I thought the gap would be bigger.

I don’t think making the craft bag free is a good move. My suggestion in the other thread to add a free version that has a very small stack limit is at most would I would expect, as it would still be pretty annoying to deal with for people who are really playing but might help with new players.

Alternatively, could figure out a way to make the PersonalAssistant addon base-game (mark things to automatically be marked as junk, automatically sell junk to merchant, auto banking… it’s the best). That way, people can automatically junk things they pick up a lot of (reducing inventory stress) and are more inclined to purchase a banker and merchant. Craft bag would still be useful for… well… crafting, free up character inventories (I have two mules with materials split between them!), and saving time on inventory management.

SilverBride · January 16

Yes

I don't think making the craft bag free is a good move, either. IF they were to find a comparable perk to replace it with for subscribers, then MAYBE that would not be as bad. But I am not confident that it would be replaced with something that was even close to as useful, and ESO+ has lost enough of it's value by taking dungeons away already. I don't want the perks picked away until there is nothing useful left.

sleepy_worm · January 16

Yes

As long as housing and bank limits are tied to ESO+, I would stay subscribed. Not to mention the DLC dungeons that haven't been moved to base game yet.

Al_Ex_Andre · January 16

Yes

YES because of free access to DLC, simply put.

wolfie1.0. · January 16

No

I say no, but that basically means I wont subscribe as much or as often.

I have run up to 10 subscriptions at one time.

Completely Remove the craft bag and make it free? I will probably go down to 1, with intermittent commitment to it. Once I buy all of the dlcs I want or they become base game, I can deal without the remaining benefits.

Basically, zos would probably lose me as a whale.

Toanis · January 16

Yes

The craft bag alone doesn't do it for me. Bank space, decoration limits and transmutes are also important.

I have more than enough eso+ crowns and all expansions, though, so if there were a $5 subscription with only the "convenience" but no crowns or access to previous expansions/dlcs. I would use that.

SolarRune · January 16

I'm honestly undecided on this, I think they would have to do something either about cost or bring in real new features (not just number/timer extensions) - maybe this makes the premium BP part of ESO+ for example?

There are other options in this space that would maintain the ease and benefits of the craft bag while allowing people to store more items. You could have something like an 'Artisans Cache', that allowed crafting and style materials to be stored and stacked higher than the current inventory limits, but would be a placed item in a house or inn room. Given recent history on storage and if something was to happen here, I think something like this would be the most likely. It provides more storage for those who need it, for the items most often complained about, while retaining the QoL benefit of the craft bag. As part of retaining the QoL benefit of craft bag it wouldn't have connectivity whilst crafting, forcing players to go to the house and drop off or collect crafting/style materials they needed or wanted to deposit.

If there hadn't been the teasers suggesting that it is something more than storage, this would have been my thought for the sages vault.

ApoAlaia · January 16

Yes

Seems to me that the craft bag is too 'on the nose' as far as 'we created a problem to sell you the solution' propositions go.

I wouldn't mind continuing my ESO+ subscription if the 'craft bag' became part of the base game.

More so if it helps make ESO more attractive to prospective/existing (non-ESO+) players.

A 'deserted' MMO holds no appeal for me. I'd much rather play a 'true' SP game instead where I can do whatever I want whenever I want to (bonus points if it has readily available modding tools) than having to strictly adhere (or else) to the ever shifting, narrow constraints of an MMO.

frogthroat · January 16

No

Not sure why I have bought the dungeon DLCs when I have used ESO+ pretty much the entire time. I have the zones. I have outfits for each toon. I have some house decoration but I am not overly enthusiastic about it so the extra slots are wasted on me. Ever since hitting CP2000 I haven't really cared about XP. I have all traits researched, crafting at max. Although out of habit I spend money on crowns when they are on discount, but I don't really need deals in the crown store. I can live with half the bank space.

I used to have chronic transmute crystal deficiency, but I start to have gear for all my toons so that is starting to be a problem. But they are tripling the limit so even that is not going to be an issue. In the future non-ESO+ limit is going to be 1500 so even without ESO+ it's 50% than with ESO+ now.

The only thing keeping me subscribed to ESO+ is the craft bag.

huntgod_ESO · January 16

Yes

I now longer sub every month, I sub every 3-4 months so I can clean out the stacks of mats that build up. I would still continue to sub occasionally, but I would also LOVE to be able to purchase the craft bag, I am actually surprised they haven't given the option as a 5000 crown purchase.

I have 20 character slots and two more accounts, so storage is manageable without the craft bag, money has been tight for me or I would likely continue to sub monthly, to support the game. I also buy the new DLC when it drops.

Thormar · January 17

Yes

As a subscriber, I find that inventory micromanagement is still required.

As it currently stands, Inventory has 9 main categories, each with its own sub-categories:
1. Weapons; 2. Armor; 3. Jewelry; 4. Consumables; 5. Materials;
6. Furnishings; 7. Companion items; 8. Miscellaneous; and 9. Junk.

The current version of the Craft Bag only offers infinite storage for category 5 items (Materials).
If this version were offered free, ZOS would still have ample room to make a paid for variant more compelling by including infinite storage for one or more of the other main categories.
It could offer infinite storage for say weapons, armor, jewelry, motifs, writs, surveys, glyphs, all the crown store knick-knacks, etc.

What I am getting at here is that imo ZOS can still make the paid version far more attractive than any free counterpart.
So, YES, I would still sub because I know there are a lot of ways to make a paid for CB better.
Not to mention the sub itself by means other than Inventory related, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Lichbane · January 18

No

I'd still be happy to use the store, but even a half-capacity craft bag would be fine with me. Just don't make it too restrictive.

Kappachi · January 18

No

I already don't subscribe because I own all chapters, all dlcs, and use addons to manage my bank space, if anything it's made me more gold because more reason to sell things on guild trader instead of hoarding them endlessly. Now that all future content will be free too I won't even need to sub to get the 1650+crowns to buy the new DLCs either... so... there's not much sub benefit honestly, craft bag or no.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 18

Yes

I voted yes even though I'm not an ESO+ subscriber. I would be far more likely to subscribe if they gave it to everyone just for the crowns and minor perks like outfit dyeing and shop deals.

Right now I don't because I feel like I would be rewarding bad business practices.

Vonnegut2506 · January 18

If I am playing a game with an optional subscription, I subscribe. Making extra inventory garbage so they can try and force people to subscribe is a crappy incentive no matter how you frame it. Get rid of the inventory micro-management altogether and find something better to tie to a subscription.