Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
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metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭emilyhyoyeon wrote: »I'm pretty sure it was in this thread where you all were talking aboutPrince Naemon's possible fate/doings/etcafter the Aldwilne Citadel quest. My character chose to side withCariel, so Naemon in her world was turned to stone with the staffand I wanted to bring this up here because I just finished the final couple Solstice quests with her before the stream.
I think I've kept up with all of your discussion, maybe I missed, but in case not, if you do the choice my character did in the side quest:
In The Final Dark quest,Prince Naemon showed up at the pre-big battle talk-to-all-the-friends-you-made-along-the-way moment, which surprised me.
This is the dialogue (german localization) he had with my character; I screenshotted the three pages, if anyone's curious. This is all he said, no more before or after.
That's...extremely odd thatNaemon showed up even when you turned him to stone. Since I sided with him, it made sense for him to be there. That's a huge oversight, I think. Or just proof that Naemon can overcome any obstacle, even death or being turned to stone.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, I'm back from the stream and some other stuff I still had to do. Slightly underwhelmed, to be honest, as I would have been interested in learning about actual upcoming content (How will the stories look like? Where do they take place? What is that High Seas event? Or details about the trial and possible dungeons) instead of just getting told about chore lists to earn digital clutter. For me, that's not actual content. I was also astonished they called it a "system", since "system" always meant some new game activity to me, like antiquities or the Archive. Actual content to play. But anyway,I really thought we'd get a lot more history/information about the Argonians. I really liked what we got, but it wasn't nearly enough for me. The way the Corelanyans and Argonians co-existed wasn't given as much attention as I wanted, either.
It was generally not much. This chapter was so sparse on lore.I thought the concept of the Wall was interesting--a huge barrier we have to figure out how to dismantle--but the mechanics of doing so weren't to my taste.
As a story device within the main quest, I'd have been fine with it. But as an artificial way to keep us waiting for half a year, and then causing lots of bugs when East content gets muddled up with West content upon release - no. It was a horrible decision that also caused lots of problems that would have not been an issue normally.It might be a cultural thing, because over here different student groups are very much a thing. There are cliques and divisions and leaders among those groups (at least there were in the eighties when I was in high school). Now whether that sort of thing would apply to the Psijiic Order is a different matter.
I agree there could be a little difference between Artaeum and a 20th century school on Earth
, but it's interesting at least to know where that idea might be coming from.I didn't think they each had half the student body. I thought it was more they each had a dedicated group of followers, but it wasn't everyone. I could be mistaken; I'll have to read those books again. Plus, that was Vastarie's description of it, and we know she was a follower of Mannimarco at some point. There's also no way of knowing how dedicated their followers were or how much they knew about Mannimarco's actual experimentation. It could be some were all-in with his ideas and practices, but then when he was banished, they pretended otherwise because they wanted to stay on Artaeum. And when Vanny left, no one followed him, did they? So it could be their followers had a stronger sense of self-preservation than they did loyalty to either mer.
The more I think about it, the less plausible it becomes. They have "followers", but Mannimarco doesn't show his experiments to any of them, but only to Vanny. And when they leave, they both leave alone. What kind of followership is that?As for his followers, he eventually got them, but I don't know when. Take Vastarie and her husband (whose name escapes me). They both "worked with" Mannimarco at some point and we know from the "dialogue" books that she was on Artaeum when Mannimarco was (else how could she have recorded their talks?). Did she leave Artaeum to find him, essentially following him into exile? Ah, too bad we just don't know so much about Mannimarco's life.
Perhaps she wasn't really recording those conversations but just wrote down what Mannimarco told her later? Or maybe it's all just made up anyway?Considering that the baseline morality in Tamriel seems to be that necromancers, cultists, and vampires are default evil, it does seem a little odd that people would add the word 'evil' to those groups. I would expect rather the reverse, with people pointing out a necromancer, cultist, or vampire who wasn't evil, given the way those groups are typically viewed in Tamriel.
In any way, it made it feel strangely clichéd in a way. In-your-face. Unsubtle. A general problem with the writing of the later years.Sadly, I put that down to the popularity of action and superhero movies. It could also just be the accumulated years of our characters recklessly killing anyone who gets in our way. As much as I like that line you quoted, and agree with it, it kind of no longer fits with the world where the main theme seems to be: kill or be killed. Even the "diplomacy" chapter (High Isle) was just a lot of killing.
What bothers me most is that it's always the same. Every npc seems to have the same opinions now while it would be realistic that they have different views based on their experiences, upbringing, social class, culture, etc.emilyhyoyeon wrote: »In The Final Dark quest,Prince Naemon showed up at the pre-big battle talk-to-all-the-friends-you-made-along-the-way moment, which surprised me.This is the dialogue (german localization) he had with my character; I screenshotted the three pages, if anyone's curious. This is all he said, no more before or after.
This is the dialogue he normally has at the ending of the Aldwilne Citadel quest (on some balcony there, or was it outside on some cliff?) if you choose to side with him. So this, too, seems to be really bugged.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭So, I'm back from the stream and some other stuff I still had to do. Slightly underwhelmed, to be honest, as I would have been interested in learning about actual upcoming content (How will the stories look like? Where do they take place? What is that High Seas event? Or details about the trial and possible dungeons) instead of just getting told about chore lists to earn digital clutter. For me, that's not actual content. I was also astonished they called it a "system", since "system" always meant some new game activity to me, like antiquities or the Archive. Actual content to play. But anyway,
I went into the reveal with the idea that it was going to be an overview only, primarily because ZOS had already said the reveal was just the start of the information and there would be a lot more to come in the days following the reveal. I wasn't expecting much detail and was pleased to see we actually got more detail than I thought we would. The road map goes out further than they have in the past, and though there were a lot of items on it that didn't get much attention beyond a brief mention, it's nice to see the longer plan.
One of the biggest concerns for me about the season model was the price point. I didn't like paying more for Season of the Worm Cult than we used to for chapters, and I was worried that seasons would cost too much for me. I'm beyond pleased that they cost nothing. All the future content will be free, and I like that. The battle pass has a free tier and that's great. At this time, I don't intend to upgrade the pass to a higher tier. I agree the pass isn't actual content, but it is a system the same way endeavors and daily log-in rewards are a system. Since it's replacing those two systems, there will be less to keep track of and nothing missed by not logging in every day. Plus you will have the ability to reroll tasks if you don't like them. I expect to treat it the same way I do endeavors now: if I complete some things, great; if not, oh well. I'm not going to obsessively track the battle pass and see if I'm checking off the lists.
I would have loved a new zone with a good story attached and it is disappointing that there isn't one coming anytime soon. I hope this means, though, that when a new zone does release, it's done really well because they had time to make it great. One of the things they said when they first announced seasons was how it would give them the ability to release content when it was ready, so hopefully that means any story and zone content that comes out will be high quality. Time will tell.
I'm really very pleased about the solo dungeons. The first two on the road map are two I've never done. At one point in my ESO history, my husband and I planned to do every dungeon: the two of us with our companions. That way we could experience the story and the dungeon content at our own pace. It went great for awhile, and we even did some veteran modes, and sometimes hardmode bosses; it was really fun. But there were dungeons we couldn't quite manage (we're very average players) and then he stopped playing, so I haven't been able to get into every dungeon. Now hopefully I'll be able to complete the ones I've missed out on.
I understand that for some people the reveal was extremely disappointing and they feel there isn't anything much to look forward to, and I am genuinely sorry they aren't getting content they want.I thought the concept of the Wall was interesting--a huge barrier we have to figure out how to dismantle--but the mechanics of doing so weren't to my taste.
As a story device within the main quest, I'd have been fine with it. But as an artificial way to keep us waiting for half a year, and then causing lots of bugs when East content gets muddled up with West content upon release - no. It was a horrible decision that also caused lots of problems that would have not been an issue normally.
Well, you know I didn't care for the Writhing Wall event or the split of the content, so I don't have much praise for the writhing wall except what I said--an interesting concept--and I will give ZOS credit for trying something new. It didn't work, but sometimes things don't work. At least they're aware of what was wrong with it.I didn't think they each had half the student body. I thought it was more they each had a dedicated group of followers, but it wasn't everyone. I could be mistaken; I'll have to read those books again. Plus, that was Vastarie's description of it, and we know she was a follower of Mannimarco at some point. There's also no way of knowing how dedicated their followers were or how much they knew about Mannimarco's actual experimentation. It could be some were all-in with his ideas and practices, but then when he was banished, they pretended otherwise because they wanted to stay on Artaeum. And when Vanny left, no one followed him, did they? So it could be their followers had a stronger sense of self-preservation than they did loyalty to either mer.
The more I think about it, the less plausible it becomes. They have "followers", but Mannimarco doesn't show his experiments to any of them, but only to Vanny. And when they leave, they both leave alone. What kind of followership is that?
Like I suggested: followers with a strong sense of self-preservation who didn't want to get kicked out of school.As for his followers, he eventually got them, but I don't know when. Take Vastarie and her husband (whose name escapes me). They both "worked with" Mannimarco at some point and we know from the "dialogue" books that she was on Artaeum when Mannimarco was (else how could she have recorded their talks?). Did she leave Artaeum to find him, essentially following him into exile? Ah, too bad we just don't know so much about Mannimarco's life.
Perhaps she wasn't really recording those conversations but just wrote down what Mannimarco told her later? Or maybe it's all just made up anyway?
I'd be interested in knowing when Vastarie wrote them. Was it when they happened or a long time later? Because she eventually broke away from following Mannimarco, and that might effect how she presented the dialogues if she wrote them while she worked with him, or after. If she wrote them some time after, they might be more allegorical than verbatim; or just the basic gist of the dialogues as she remembered them. It's that usual ESO lore book thing: authorship bias.Considering that the baseline morality in Tamriel seems to be that necromancers, cultists, and vampires are default evil, it does seem a little odd that people would add the word 'evil' to those groups. I would expect rather the reverse, with people pointing out a necromancer, cultist, or vampire who wasn't evil, given the way those groups are typically viewed in Tamriel.
In any way, it made it feel strangely clichéd in a way. In-your-face. Unsubtle. A general problem with the writing of the later years.
Yes, it's a pity.Sadly, I put that down to the popularity of action and superhero movies. It could also just be the accumulated years of our characters recklessly killing anyone who gets in our way. As much as I like that line you quoted, and agree with it, it kind of no longer fits with the world where the main theme seems to be: kill or be killed. Even the "diplomacy" chapter (High Isle) was just a lot of killing.
What bothers me most is that it's always the same. Every npc seems to have the same opinions now while it would be realistic that they have different views based on their experiences, upbringing, social class, culture, etc.
Maybe the next storyline won't be so...I don't even know what word fits best here. Since this story of the Worm Cult was very much conceived as: they're bad and we all hate them, it kind of makes sense that every npc that isn't the Worm Cult would have the same opinion of the Worm Cult. I mean, the Cult is evil as shown by their actions in base game, and if the writing begins from the stance that they're universally hated, there's little room to show different opinions. (I'm not saying I agree with that premise, just that the story seems to have grown from that premise, as per the article that started this whole thread.)
Anyway, maybe the next storyline will have more room for npcs to have different opinions or views, and so we'll get some of that variety that makes the game world more interesting.Oh, I agree! I wish we could have asked him about his imprisonment and received varying levels of vague answers depending on how well we know him or how we've interacted with him. The main reason my character even went into Eastern Solstice (since apparently he's not part of the Stirk Fellowship--or is he--a question never to be answered) was to rescue Vanus. It's kind of his thing, rescuing the Great Mage.
I truly find it jarring that you can ask really anyone else about how they feel - but not him, despite his fate having been one of the worst in the current story. That can't just be an oversight, can it?
No, I think it was intentional, but I don't really understand why. Perhaps they didn't want the old man...er The Great Mage to become more personable and relatable, or for players to develop more of a rapport with him. Maybe they prefer him as the stand-offish type, the brilliant mer who perfers to be solitary. I don't know. I think he deserved more dialogue options in general and I think we specifically deserved the chance to ask him how he was doing after his imprisonment. Even if all he said was, "There's no time to talk about that, and nothing to say anyway."That's really unfortunate to be confronted with translation errors--that really detracts from the story. It kind of seems like the result of rushed work.
Another thing came to my mind yesterday after I've sent my last post; there was also a situation where they used a clear modern anglicism/americanism in the German translation. People generally do understand that word, but it just became common in Germany in the 1960s (from American media, I think, when Hollywood movies and Rock'n'Roll music also became popular here). Now, it would have been totally fine for a Fallout game or any other game set in modern times, but for a medieval-ish fantasy game?! There would have been a dozen of well-known synonyms that would have fit better, especially since they usually do use a somewhat old-time-y language style in the German translation. Really made me wonder whether everything was machine-translated this time or whether, if it were humans who translated it, the translators weren't aware for which game or setting they were doing the translation?! It definitely felt strange.
That's too bad. I hope they can get things like this, and the missing language voice-overs, sorted.Perhaps we all collectively imagined the existence of Wormblood.
Years from now scholars will study the mass hallucination that culminated in a big battle in Solstice.
He'll likely go the way of all those other chapter mini bosses no one remembers anymore. I can't remember the one from High Isle or Gold Road anymore either. I still remember Conoon Chodala from Morrowind.
High Isle was the smarmy mage guy, the Ascendant Lord's buddy, wasn't he? And Gold Road was King Nantharion? Or was there another? Chodala was an Ashkhan, right?I can buy putting aside our differences to band together to face the larger threat--it's a common enough theme--but then after that we just go back to the war and hating each other? To me, the Three Banners War no longer makes any sense. Tamriel has been through too much and the different alliances have banded together too often for it to seem plausible.
It's hard to say. No matter how strange it is, people are even capable of spontaneously celebrating together and then killing each other again after the celebration is over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce
Yes, but that's a bit different than actually banding together to fight a larger threat, isn't it? Eh, I don't know. I've never been to war. I'm just tired of the Three Banners War.Story-wise, I'd like to see Cyrodiil as something else than a war zone. But I don't want to take anything away from the PvPers, and I don't know what their opinion on Cyrodiil is, whether they'd prefer a different zone or setting, for example, or whether they absolutely want to keep that map the way it is. In the end, ZOS will decide, I guess.
I think they could do a pve version of Cyrodiil without getting rid of the pvp version of it. Whether they would consider it worth it in the end, I don't know.Whether or not it makes sense to flirt with him so soon after Gabrielle's death, I don't know. I've never been sure if he and Gabrielle were romantically involved/interested in one another. It seems like it, but their relationship could also be interpreted as just very close but not romantic, or one has feelings for the other but it's not reciprocated.
His behavior right after her death could have just been some feeling of guilt and him mourning over a friend, but when he ran after that fake ghost, for example? I don't know. My interpretation would have been that he was at least in love with her.
I generally hope they won't mess up characters and their backgrounds (changing character traits, killing off partners and spouses, etc) just because some people might want to romance them.
According to ZOS, Gabrielle wasn't killed off so the player character could romance Darien. (I saw someone post a link about that in another thread). Since Darien and Gabrielle's relationship was never officially clarified, it's hard to say what it really was. When he ran after the fake ghost, I got the impression it was his guilt making that decision more than his grief--she used her life to bring him back, and then he lost his light and so what was her sacrifice for, and so forth.
But here's something I wondered:didn't we learn that the Gift of Death obliterated the soul of the person used in exchange? Yet Gabrielle briefly came back in ghost/soul form at the very end. So did that refute the idea that the Gift of Death absorbed or destroyed the soul? Or was there something else? Or did I miss something?I think Darien's crisis was an example of generally deeper storytelling that I'd like to see more of (obviously with a variety of topics). The notion of him struggling to fit in with the world when the grand purpose he thought he was made for and had accepted was suddenly gone does have a depth to it that has been lacking in some recent stories. The problem, I think, is they chose a fan favorite for this deeper storytelling and made it too much of the story. If a player doesn't care about Darien, there was a lot of dialogue and interaction they had to put up with; having the focus so much on one individual also made it seem like Darien's issues (while interesting and well-presented) were more important than stopping Mannimarco. So...that's a lot of words for me to say, "Yep, I agree!"
It was a deeper characterisation and generally, I do support that. But focusing on just one single character in some actually unrelated story really isn't it. There's just nothing of interest for people who don't care for that character. Take Morrowind, CWC and Summerset as an example, there we also had insights about things some npcs were struggling with (which also led to people still remembering for example Veja and Leythen today, while many other npcs are long forgotten) , but there were also many things beyond that that kept the whole story interesting. The main problem really is not that Darien got his crisis, but that we need to focus on that so much and so little on everything else.
I think we basically said the same thing.
That's a certain kind of luck, for sure!It's funny, though, because for some reason Vanus seemed out of place in Sunport. It made me think he didn't quite like the place. I'm sure that's just fanciful thinking on my part, but the way he kept himself apart from everyone...probably longing for his secret sanctum.
I don't think it's the city itself (he should even be used to that type of architecture). I'd have interpreted it as some kind of discomfort; light social phobia or maybe some kind of being overwhelmed by everything after he spent the past half year without that much social contact (or any kind of exposition to some lively environment, really)? Or he just wanted to be left alone to have time to think. Or perhaps he just found that lamp post really interesting.
All good conjectures!
It was a very deliberate word choice on my part.
I think it's fine if people create what ever memes they can think of. I'm not sure whether it needs to be included into a game which generally has a more serious narrative style (compared to internet memes), though. And it was a bit of a strange "main reward" for completing the whole story, since it was, again, so focused on Darien stuff, and doesn't provide much of interest for people who don't care for that.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that the Darien fans couldn't make as much out of the bread thing as they wanted--they found it interesting/amusing/meme-able, after all. I just don't think ZOS needed to make it official canon or reference it so much and certainly not make the final quest memento after it. But, I say that knowing full well that there are probably plenty of people who like it a lot and are glad to have it in game. *shrug* People like what they like.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I went into the reveal with the idea that it was going to be an overview only, primarily because ZOS had already said the reveal was just the start of the information and there would be a lot more to come in the days following the reveal. I wasn't expecting much detail and was pleased to see we actually got more detail than I thought we would. The road map goes out further than they have in the past, and though there were a lot of items on it that didn't get much attention beyond a brief mention, it's nice to see the longer plan.
I think to me it felt mostly strange because the focus was set so much on how the players can spend money on the game. If it had been a balanced coverage on everything that's already clear for the schedule, it would probably have left a different impression. I would have also appreciated at least a tiny bit of info on the coming story content. If they want to release it in summer, they surely already know where it will take place, at least. Unless it's really just such a tiny little questline that it can be produced within 2 or 3 weeks; but that would be concerning by itself.One of the biggest concerns for me about the season model was the price point. I didn't like paying more for Season of the Worm Cult than we used to for chapters, and I was worried that seasons would cost too much for me. I'm beyond pleased that they cost nothing. All the future content will be free, and I like that.
The thing I'm wondering about is whether they will still produce quality story content if all upcoming releases are supposed to be free. It's clear that story content costs a lot to produce and I'm unsure whether they will still invest much if their only source of income will be the battle pass and crown store sales now.The battle pass has a free tier and that's great. At this time, I don't intend to upgrade the pass to a higher tier.
Me neither. I honestly hope they won't lock anything I care for behind it. If it's just cosmetics, I don't care much. I have so many mounts, costumes and pets, I don't have enough time to use all of them already now, so I don't really need more. But what if they ever put something meaningful into that premium tier? Quest content? Companions?I would have loved a new zone with a good story attached and it is disappointing that there isn't one coming anytime soon. I hope this means, though, that when a new zone does release, it's done really well because they had time to make it great. One of the things they said when they first announced seasons was how it would give them the ability to release content when it was ready, so hopefully that means any story and zone content that comes out will be high quality. Time will tell.
I'm just sceptical. They already reduced story content for years and the argument was always that they'll do bugfixes instead, or give us other interesting things, but then it never felt like it was a good trade. Also, the first argument years ago for a reduction in quality and quantity in story content was Covid. They literally told us it's just because everyone is in home office now which makes working and coordination much more difficult. And they promised everything will be back at Morrowind/Summerset quality once the lockdowns are over. You know we never reached that point again, and now it's already 2026.I'm really very pleased about the solo dungeons. The first two on the road map are two I've never done. At one point in my ESO history, my husband and I planned to do every dungeon: the two of us with our companions. That way we could experience the story and the dungeon content at our own pace. It went great for awhile, and we even did some veteran modes, and sometimes hardmode bosses; it was really fun. But there were dungeons we couldn't quite manage (we're very average players) and then he stopped playing, so I haven't been able to get into every dungeon. Now hopefully I'll be able to complete the ones I've missed out on.
I too appreciate that (I've soloed all base game dungeons and a few dlc dungeons, but there are some left that I did not manage to solo), but I'm a little sad it seems to come at the expense of normal group dungeons. There was a dev quote posted on this forum today where it got stated that there are no new 4-person-dungeons this year because they focused on doing solo versions of those existing dungeons instead. I never wanted to take anything away from people who enjoy group PvE.Well, you know I didn't care for the Writhing Wall event or the split of the content, so I don't have much praise for the writhing wall except what I said--an interesting concept--and I will give ZOS credit for trying something new. It didn't work, but sometimes things don't work. At least they're aware of what was wrong with it.
Now the question is whether the Night Market will be better. Some people think it will be a new Craglorn, but to me it somehow sounds more like another version of the Writhing Fortress.Like I suggested: followers with a strong sense of self-preservation who didn't want to get kicked out of school.
That's no real dedication thenI'd be interested in knowing when Vastarie wrote them. Was it when they happened or a long time later? Because she eventually broke away from following Mannimarco, and that might effect how she presented the dialogues if she wrote them while she worked with him, or after. If she wrote them some time after, they might be more allegorical than verbatim; or just the basic gist of the dialogues as she remembered them. It's that usual ESO lore book thing: authorship bias.
Another thing I wonder about is where and how these books circulate. I know you only find them in a few locations in East Solstice, but I think the books themselves stated that some philosophical ideas of Vanny and Mannimarco would have become common knowledge today and that there were writings about these theories, and that scholars usually knew these Dialogue books, too. It leads to several questions: Is Vastarie in a position to publish books? Do people really still read and positively refer to Mannimarco's theories, considering he's a shunned individual now? Apart from the fact that we've never heard or seen anything of these theories anywhere before, I'm not sure whether his ideas might not just be considered taboo now. No matter how brilliant they might have been. Comparable to real life: There are individuals who might have said or written something interesting once, but still, you would not want to quote them or refer to them in a positive way ever. I think Mannimarco could be such a figure in Tamriel, after all he has done.Maybe the next storyline won't be so...I don't even know what word fits best here. Since this story of the Worm Cult was very much conceived as: they're bad and we all hate them, it kind of makes sense that every npc that isn't the Worm Cult would have the same opinion of the Worm Cult. I mean, the Cult is evil as shown by their actions in base game, and if the writing begins from the stance that they're universally hated, there's little room to show different opinions. (I'm not saying I agree with that premise, just that the story seems to have grown from that premise, as per the article that started this whole thread.)
I mean, even if everyone despises them, there's a difference between disapproving of someone or celebrating violence against them. All that "I want to crush their skulls", "I love to hear them scream", etc; which, from my cultural perspective, looks utterly disturbed, by the way. I just cannot see people with that way of thinking as "the good ones", for me they're not a tad better than the ones they want to murder. Now, I understand this is a medieval world, and there are people like that, and that's fine. What I miss is that there is nothing beyond that. Everyone utters the same violent stuff. There's no one who just sees them as misguided and almost feels sorry for their foolishness, or just sees killing them as a thing that must be done to end the threat, but doesn't enjoy killing. Which I would expect from a "realistic" fictional world: People don't all have exactly the same mindset. A mercenary will have a different attitude than a scholar or priest (surely they have priests accompanying the troops, to provide rites for fallen fighters), someone whose family was killed by Worm Cultists might have a different one than someone who has no personal involvement in the whole thing at all. And someone whose sibling might have left the family to join the cult will have another completely different stance. The base game writing was really much better in showing these different stances that different people naturally have.No, I think it was intentional, but I don't really understand why. Perhaps they didn't want the old man...er The Great Mage to become more personable and relatable, or for players to develop more of a rapport with him. Maybe they prefer him as the stand-offish type, the brilliant mer who perfers to be solitary.
Which still wouldn't be a reason for our character not to try to talk to him anyway. I might be a little cynical here, but I truly think it's assumed he's not an interesting character for "the target group". And I dislike this narrow focus.High Isle was the smarmy mage guy, the Ascendant Lord's buddy, wasn't he? And Gold Road was King Nantharion? Or was there another? Chodala was an Ashkhan, right?
Yes, that was the Ashkhan (who also shows up again as a ghost of a failed incarnate in TES3). When it comes to the Ascendant Mage, I can't remember more than that title. And Nantharion? Right. But wasn't there another one in that story? Even one tier lower, like that other female Bosmer in the last story? Whose name I've also already forgotten now. Sounded like some sort of pasta, I think. Ah, wait, wasn't it Farinor or something like that? In any way, most of them are so unremarkable, they just don't really leave any lasting impression.Yes, but that's a bit different than actually banding together to fight a larger threat, isn't it? Eh, I don't know. I've never been to war. I'm just tired of the Three Banners War.
The peace talks in High Isle were promising, but somehow they led to nothing.didn't we learn that the Gift of Death obliterated the soul of the person used in exchange? Yet Gabrielle briefly came back in ghost/soul form at the very end. So did that refute the idea that the Gift of Death absorbed or destroyed the soul? Or was there something else? Or did I miss something?
I think you have found another plot hole. Although lore might be bent to say that......since it happened in the Colored Rooms, Meridia somehow immediately snatched her soul so it couldn't disappear to whereever it would have supposed to disappear to.But no, there's no official explanation for that yet.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I went into the reveal with the idea that it was going to be an overview only, primarily because ZOS had already said the reveal was just the start of the information and there would be a lot more to come in the days following the reveal. I wasn't expecting much detail and was pleased to see we actually got more detail than I thought we would. The road map goes out further than they have in the past, and though there were a lot of items on it that didn't get much attention beyond a brief mention, it's nice to see the longer plan.
I think to me it felt mostly strange because the focus was set so much on how the players can spend money on the game. If it had been a balanced coverage on everything that's already clear for the schedule, it would probably have left a different impression. I would have also appreciated at least a tiny bit of info on the coming story content. If they want to release it in summer, they surely already know where it will take place, at least. Unless it's really just such a tiny little questline that it can be produced within 2 or 3 weeks; but that would be concerning by itself.
Well, I would have liked more. When it ended, it did seem a bit abrupt, but then again they probably had a schedule to keep to. I didn't feel like there was undue focus on how a player could spend money. In fact, they seemed to emphasize that the majority of the new currency can be earned in the free tier of the battle pass. I got the feeling they wanted to really clarify the battle pass because it was not only new, but replacing a couple of current systems. (Judging by some forum comments, however, they weren't as clear as I think they meant to be). I took the survey they linked, by the way, and some of the questions made me think they really meant to cover more but misjudged how long it would take or how much they could realistically get to in their alloted time.One of the biggest concerns for me about the season model was the price point. I didn't like paying more for Season of the Worm Cult than we used to for chapters, and I was worried that seasons would cost too much for me. I'm beyond pleased that they cost nothing. All the future content will be free, and I like that.
The thing I'm wondering about is whether they will still produce quality story content if all upcoming releases are supposed to be free. It's clear that story content costs a lot to produce and I'm unsure whether they will still invest much if their only source of income will be the battle pass and crown store sales now.
I guess that depends on how successful the paid tiers of the battle pass are. I don't think they would have introduced it if they didn't think it would generate good revenue for them, but there is also ESO+ as a source of income. We'll see what level of quality story content they put out: I'm hoping they'll take the time to do it right and produce really good content.The battle pass has a free tier and that's great. At this time, I don't intend to upgrade the pass to a higher tier.
Me neither. I honestly hope they won't lock anything I care for behind it. If it's just cosmetics, I don't care much. I have so many mounts, costumes and pets, I don't have enough time to use all of them already now, so I don't really need more. But what if they ever put something meaningful into that premium tier? Quest content? Companions?
If they ever put quest content or things like companions in the paid tier of battle pass, that will be a grave concern, and not in line with what they have said so far. From what they've said, battle pass is cosmetics and items that used to be part of the daily rewards--things like that. There is an article about it that goes more in depth than what the stream did, and honestly the whole thing seemed to me like the kind of thing you could really pay no attention to if you didn't care about the stuff, and it wouldn't impact your game time at all.I would have loved a new zone with a good story attached and it is disappointing that there isn't one coming anytime soon. I hope this means, though, that when a new zone does release, it's done really well because they had time to make it great. One of the things they said when they first announced seasons was how it would give them the ability to release content when it was ready, so hopefully that means any story and zone content that comes out will be high quality. Time will tell.
I'm just sceptical. They already reduced story content for years and the argument was always that they'll do bugfixes instead, or give us other interesting things, but then it never felt like it was a good trade. Also, the first argument years ago for a reduction in quality and quantity in story content was Covid. They literally told us it's just because everyone is in home office now which makes working and coordination much more difficult. And they promised everything will be back at Morrowind/Summerset quality once the lockdowns are over. You know we never reached that point again, and now it's already 2026.
I understand. It's hard to think we'll get that high quality story content we so love when we haven't gotten it for so long. I'm still hopeful, however.I'm really very pleased about the solo dungeons. The first two on the road map are two I've never done. At one point in my ESO history, my husband and I planned to do every dungeon: the two of us with our companions. That way we could experience the story and the dungeon content at our own pace. It went great for awhile, and we even did some veteran modes, and sometimes hardmode bosses; it was really fun. But there were dungeons we couldn't quite manage (we're very average players) and then he stopped playing, so I haven't been able to get into every dungeon. Now hopefully I'll be able to complete the ones I've missed out on.
I too appreciate that (I've soloed all base game dungeons and a few dlc dungeons, but there are some left that I did not manage to solo), but I'm a little sad it seems to come at the expense of normal group dungeons. There was a dev quote posted on this forum today where it got stated that there are no new 4-person-dungeons this year because they focused on doing solo versions of those existing dungeons instead. I never wanted to take anything away from people who enjoy group PvE.
Well, I don't want to take anything away from people, either. It would be great if they could have worked on solo dungeons as well as made new ones. They have to choose what to prioritize, and unfortunately they can't do everything on their list at once. From what I understand, it's not even guaranteed that all dungeons will get a solo mode; it might depend on how popular the feature is. All we can do is participate in the features in game that we enjoy and express our feedback on what we like/don't like/want/don't want.Well, you know I didn't care for the Writhing Wall event or the split of the content, so I don't have much praise for the writhing wall except what I said--an interesting concept--and I will give ZOS credit for trying something new. It didn't work, but sometimes things don't work. At least they're aware of what was wrong with it.
Now the question is whether the Night Market will be better. Some people think it will be a new Craglorn, but to me it somehow sounds more like another version of the Writhing Fortress.
They did call it a zone, didn't they? Not an instance? Well, we'll see how it works out. I figure I'll try it out, see if I like it.
Not everyone has the Telvanni zeal!I'd be interested in knowing when Vastarie wrote them. Was it when they happened or a long time later? Because she eventually broke away from following Mannimarco, and that might effect how she presented the dialogues if she wrote them while she worked with him, or after. If she wrote them some time after, they might be more allegorical than verbatim; or just the basic gist of the dialogues as she remembered them. It's that usual ESO lore book thing: authorship bias.
Another thing I wonder about is where and how these books circulate. I know you only find them in a few locations in East Solstice, but I think the books themselves stated that some philosophical ideas of Vanny and Mannimarco would have become common knowledge today and that there were writings about these theories, and that scholars usually knew these Dialogue books, too. It leads to several questions: Is Vastarie in a position to publish books? Do people really still read and positively refer to Mannimarco's theories, considering he's a shunned individual now? Apart from the fact that we've never heard or seen anything of these theories anywhere before, I'm not sure whether his ideas might not just be considered taboo now. No matter how brilliant they might have been. Comparable to real life: There are individuals who might have said or written something interesting once, but still, you would not want to quote them or refer to them in a positive way ever. I think Mannimarco could be such a figure in Tamriel, after all he has done.
I really don't understand Tamriel publishing practices in general. I've never seen a printing press anywhere! But it's a good point about whether or not anyone would care what Mannimarco used to talk about before he became King of Worms. Pure scholars might see the value in the dialogues, but the average Tamriel citizen? That's why I hope they are older books, maybe even written close to the time they happened. Why they only just now came to light is a different discussion, though.Maybe the next storyline won't be so...I don't even know what word fits best here. Since this story of the Worm Cult was very much conceived as: they're bad and we all hate them, it kind of makes sense that every npc that isn't the Worm Cult would have the same opinion of the Worm Cult. I mean, the Cult is evil as shown by their actions in base game, and if the writing begins from the stance that they're universally hated, there's little room to show different opinions. (I'm not saying I agree with that premise, just that the story seems to have grown from that premise, as per the article that started this whole thread.)
I mean, even if everyone despises them, there's a difference between disapproving of someone or celebrating violence against them. All that "I want to crush their skulls", "I love to hear them scream", etc; which, from my cultural perspective, looks utterly disturbed, by the way. I just cannot see people with that way of thinking as "the good ones", for me they're not a tad better than the ones they want to murder. Now, I understand this is a medieval world, and there are people like that, and that's fine. What I miss is that there is nothing beyond that. Everyone utters the same violent stuff. There's no one who just sees them as misguided and almost feels sorry for their foolishness, or just sees killing them as a thing that must be done to end the threat, but doesn't enjoy killing. Which I would expect from a "realistic" fictional world: People don't all have exactly the same mindset. A mercenary will have a different attitude than a scholar or priest (surely they have priests accompanying the troops, to provide rites for fallen fighters), someone whose family was killed by Worm Cultists might have a different one than someone who has no personal involvement in the whole thing at all. And someone whose sibling might have left the family to join the cult will have another completely different stance. The base game writing was really much better in showing these different stances that different people naturally have.
Did some npc say they love to hear the cultists scream? That's disturbing. But remember that Walks-in-Ash scolded us if we punched that Worm Cultist in the holding cell in Sunport? That was less on the bloodthirsty side. I agree with you that they could have shown more range of feeling in npcs about the Worm Cult; my point was that maybe they didn't think they needed to since the basic premise was: these guys are evil. I'm not defending it, just trying to understand it.No, I think it was intentional, but I don't really understand why. Perhaps they didn't want the old man...er The Great Mage to become more personable and relatable, or for players to develop more of a rapport with him. Maybe they prefer him as the stand-offish type, the brilliant mer who perfers to be solitary.
Which still wouldn't be a reason for our character not to try to talk to him anyway. I might be a little cynical here, but I truly think it's assumed he's not an interesting character for "the target group". And I dislike this narrow focus.
I did say I think he deserved more dialogue options, specifically for us to talk to him about his imprisonment even if his response brushed us off. It could be that they think he's not well liked so why bother, or it could be that their vision of who he is doesn't include personal conversation. Whatever the reason they didn't let us talk to him about his experiences as a prisoner, I think it did his character, and ours, a disservice.High Isle was the smarmy mage guy, the Ascendant Lord's buddy, wasn't he? And Gold Road was King Nantharion? Or was there another? Chodala was an Ashkhan, right?
Yes, that was the Ashkhan (who also shows up again as a ghost of a failed incarnate in TES3). When it comes to the Ascendant Mage, I can't remember more than that title. And Nantharion? Right. But wasn't there another one in that story? Even one tier lower, like that other female Bosmer in the last story? Whose name I've also already forgotten now. Sounded like some sort of pasta, I think. Ah, wait, wasn't it Farinor or something like that? In any way, most of them are so unremarkable, they just don't really leave any lasting impression.
I guess Torvesaard was one of the antagonists in West Weald, but perhaps he was the "main enemy"? I don't know. I disliked that we had to kill him. He was a pretty interesting character overall. I don't remember if there was another one in West Weald. And yeah, Farinor was the Solstice one we killed in the Colored Rooms.
Yeah. That was a let down. But maybe now that time has moved forward?didn't we learn that the Gift of Death obliterated the soul of the person used in exchange? Yet Gabrielle briefly came back in ghost/soul form at the very end. So did that refute the idea that the Gift of Death absorbed or destroyed the soul? Or was there something else? Or did I miss something?
I think you have found another plot hole. Although lore might be bent to say that......since it happened in the Colored Rooms, Meridia somehow immediately snatched her soul so it couldn't disappear to whereever it would have supposed to disappear to.But no, there's no official explanation for that yet.
I did wonder if the Colored Rooms had anything to do with it. That Meridia, always breaking the rules!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I didn't feel like there was undue focus on how a player could spend money. In fact, they seemed to emphasize that the majority of the new currency can be earned in the free tier of the battle pass.
Yes, but it felt generally very item/cosmetic/"reward"-focused. I too appreciate nice rewards for playing the game, of course (though I'd rather see them directly within the world, in quests or dungeons, instead of just getting currency and a store), but personally, my main interest is the actual playable content. I want to know what to do in game. New things preferably, that are fun to play and where I, preferably, get some new interesting lore - not just running after chores to get some currency to buy whatever. And when it comes to that, there wasn't much during the stream, sadly.I took the survey they linked, by the way, and some of the questions made me think they really meant to cover more but misjudged how long it would take or how much they could realistically get to in their alloted time.
I've seen the survey and got the same impression. But if I'd notice during a stream (or speech or whatever) that time is running out, I'd focus on the most interesting aspects and rather shorten or omit the rest. They were in a studio, someone must have noticed how much time there was still left. So it's astonishing that the actual content, which I would have found most interesting as a topic, almost didn't get spoken about at all (apart from beeing shown shortly on that chart).I guess that depends on how successful the paid tiers of the battle pass are. I don't think they would have introduced it if they didn't think it would generate good revenue for them, but there is also ESO+ as a source of income. We'll see what level of quality story content they put out: I'm hoping they'll take the time to do it right and produce really good content.
Sadly, after the past few years, I'm sceptical. I'm also not sure whether they are aware about the criticism about the writing. At least I've never seen it being acknowledged yet. The bugs, the chaos and the boring event last year - sure. But never any word on the writing (including plot holes, lore mistakes, clichéd characters, that moral undertone lately, the thing they did with Sanguine, etc).Well, I don't want to take anything away from people, either. It would be great if they could have worked on solo dungeons as well as made new ones. They have to choose what to prioritize, and unfortunately they can't do everything on their list at once. From what I understand, it's not even guaranteed that all dungeons will get a solo mode; it might depend on how popular the feature is. All we can do is participate in the features in game that we enjoy and express our feedback on what we like/don't like/want/don't want.
I wished they would have split it at least and made one normal and one solo dungeon then instead of two solo dungeons then, so there's at least one each for both player types.They did call it a zone, didn't they? Not an instance? Well, we'll see how it works out. I figure I'll try it out, see if I like it.
A zone, but that don't necessarily say anything about the size. Fargrave was also a zone and rather small. I wonder whether many zones we'll get in future might just be cities, surrounded by a wall, and that's it. I mean, not that a city can't be an interesting location for questing and other activities (I've also enjoyed the Tribunal dlc for TES 3 back then which took place entirely in Mournhold - well, and the ruins beneath, and the finale in CWC, although that also was just a city interior). But I can say I would miss exploring real landscapes.I really don't understand Tamriel publishing practices in general. I've never seen a printing press anywhere!
I'm not entirely sure but I think there were some - in Apocrypha.But it's a good point about whether or not anyone would care what Mannimarco used to talk about before he became King of Worms. Pure scholars might see the value in the dialogues, but the average Tamriel citizen? That's why I hope they are older books, maybe even written close to the time they happened. Why they only just now came to light is a different discussion, though.
Or maybe indeed they've been banned by now. They could only be found at locations that belonged to the Worm Cult in Solstice, correct?Did some npc say they love to hear the cultists scream? That's disturbing.
Yes. It's background chatter at the Solstice main camp, so not sure who exactly is saying it, but it must be someone from the Stirk Fellowship. And there's several lines like that throughout the story.Yeah. That was a let down. But maybe now that time has moved forward?
I'm astonished by the way that there doesn't seem to be any continuation of the Darien story that began last year in this year's schedule. I had expected them to build upon that (Perhaps in winter - and in summer I expected something related to the Dark Brotherhood, since they announced that last year - but that also seems to have been moved to some later date now?!). Makes me wonder now whether it's a good idea if it just comes up after a whole year again, or even later. Does it still have the emotional impact then if there are several completely unrelated (even if smaller) stories inbetween? I already found the half year gap between West and East Solstice to be a problem.
Did you see the latest Loremaster's Archive, by the way? Unfortunately it's a topic I can't contribute much to.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I took the survey they linked, by the way, and some of the questions made me think they really meant to cover more but misjudged how long it would take or how much they could realistically get to in their alloted time.
I've seen the survey and got the same impression. But if I'd notice during a stream (or speech or whatever) that time is running out, I'd focus on the most interesting aspects and rather shorten or omit the rest. They were in a studio, someone must have noticed how much time there was still left. So it's astonishing that the actual content, which I would have found most interesting as a topic, almost didn't get spoken about at all (apart from beeing shown shortly on that chart).
I don't know. They're making a major change to how content is delivered. When they started with "content will be free," of course I immediately wanted to know how they were going to subsidize that. That information was pretty important to get across. They had so much to talk about, such a short time to do it, that there was no way they could get to all of it. Seemed like they wanted to focus on season 0 mostly, and so the things coming later got a bare mention or simply just shown on the road map. I would have loved to hear about any story content coming up, but since it appears that isn't even slated for the first quarter, it's not too surprising they didn't talk much (or at all) about it.
Since the first quarter dlc used to be dungeons and now it's the Night Market, that seems relatively equivalent to me in terms of content (I've read some of the ZOS comments in the dungeons thread, and it does seem like the Night Market might not be for me--which is fine--but I'll still give it a try). First quarter has traditionally been a dry spell for me in ESO in terms of story content and is often the time when I go back to progressing the stories I'm taking my alts through. Or just take a break from the game.I guess that depends on how successful the paid tiers of the battle pass are. I don't think they would have introduced it if they didn't think it would generate good revenue for them, but there is also ESO+ as a source of income. We'll see what level of quality story content they put out: I'm hoping they'll take the time to do it right and produce really good content.
Sadly, after the past few years, I'm sceptical. I'm also not sure whether they are aware about the criticism about the writing. At least I've never seen it being acknowledged yet. The bugs, the chaos and the boring event last year - sure. But never any word on the writing (including plot holes, lore mistakes, clichéd characters, that moral undertone lately, the thing they did with Sanguine, etc).
I'm not sure what they could say about the writing, really, other than clarify what seem to be plot holes and lore mistakes. What people think of the stories and the writing is subjective, after all. For example, I really dislike Rigurt and never want to see him again (along with Lady Laurent and Stibbons), but I've seen someone else say they love Rigurt and are always happy to see him show up. There's really not much ZOS can say about that. You didn't like the way Sanguine was portrayed (and nor did others) but some people did. You see a trope character, others may see a character they really like.
I do think the writing has been better in the past, more nuanced, more subtle, more to my taste, but I don't expect ZOS to comment on how some people don't like the current writing. I do think they should correct lore mistakes when they show up, and acknowledge plot holes (or at least explain why they aren't actually plot holes, if that's the case), but for all we know some story is in the works that builds on some of what we see as plot holes or incorrect lore and makes things make sense. (Like how I thought maybe Ezhkel was the reason Sanquine's carnival wasn't as Sanquine as it might have been--which I still want to believe was the case. )They did call it a zone, didn't they? Not an instance? Well, we'll see how it works out. I figure I'll try it out, see if I like it.
A zone, but that don't necessarily say anything about the size. Fargrave was also a zone and rather small. I wonder whether many zones we'll get in future might just be cities, surrounded by a wall, and that's it. I mean, not that a city can't be an interesting location for questing and other activities (I've also enjoyed the Tribunal dlc for TES 3 back then which took place entirely in Mournhold - well, and the ruins beneath, and the finale in CWC, although that also was just a city interior). But I can say I would miss exploring real landscapes.
Sounds like it might be somewhat sizable: three different factions, quests for them, and a landscape to move about in. There are going to be four total instanced areas, though, so that might make for a smaller overall outside zone. It's certainly an interesting concept and I wonder how it will play out.
Oh, sure, just a quick trip to Apocrypha to get a book published! Won't cost you your sanity or put you in servitude to tentacle god, I'm sure.But it's a good point about whether or not anyone would care what Mannimarco used to talk about before he became King of Worms. Pure scholars might see the value in the dialogues, but the average Tamriel citizen? That's why I hope they are older books, maybe even written close to the time they happened. Why they only just now came to light is a different discussion, though.
Or maybe indeed they've been banned by now. They could only be found at locations that belonged to the Worm Cult in Solstice, correct?
I found one in Gristmung Hold and the other in that Stirk camp near Mor Naril. So, yeah, the books were definitely in Worm Cult territory. Makes me wonder if the Cult uses them as some sort of teaching tool. A primer of sorts, so the cultists learn the thoughts and philosophies of Lord Mannimarco.
Well, seems like the Stirk Fellowship will take anyone, even psychopaths. Maybe now I'm glad I was never canonically a member of it.Yeah. That was a let down. But maybe now that time has moved forward?
I'm astonished by the way that there doesn't seem to be any continuation of the Darien story that began last year in this year's schedule. I had expected them to build upon that (Perhaps in winter - and in summer I expected something related to the Dark Brotherhood, since they announced that last year - but that also seems to have been moved to some later date now?!). Makes me wonder now whether it's a good idea if it just comes up after a whole year again, or even later. Does it still have the emotional impact then if there are several completely unrelated (even if smaller) stories inbetween? I already found the half year gap between West and East Solstice to be a problem.
I know people expected some Dark Brotherhood content, but I never saw the announcement about that. (I just assumed everyone had heard about it on some social media I don't use.) It very well could have been pushed back. If they do continue the Darien story, they might want to give it a bit of time to give the impression that he's been out and about, coping with his caged light in his own way. I really wasn't expecting any more with him in the near future. I guess the impact it might have will depend on what happens to him. For me the gap between west and east Solstice didn't work because there was this sense of urgency and 'we have to stop them!' and then we just kicked our heels for however long. The way I left things with Darien felt like a finish to a story.Did you see the latest Loremaster's Archive, by the way? Unfortunately it's a topic I can't contribute much to.
I did see it, and there are some interesting questions submitted. I don't know enough about Mara and Heart's Day to have anything to ask, but I will surely be interested in reading the answers.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know. They're making a major change to how content is delivered. When they started with "content will be free," of course I immediately wanted to know how they were going to subsidize that. That information was pretty important to get across. They had so much to talk about, such a short time to do it, that there was no way they could get to all of it. Seemed like they wanted to focus on season 0 mostly, and so the things coming later got a bare mention or simply just shown on the road map. I would have loved to hear about any story content coming up, but since it appears that isn't even slated for the first quarter, it's not too surprising they didn't talk much (or at all) about it.
Yes, there clearly is a lot to talk about. Maybe it would have made sense to split the whole thing and announce beforehand that there would be some 3-part-presentation (as an example, one stream for each season) and already set dates for it, like once a week for the following 3 weeks? I know they said there will be more streams and news articles about everything, but already giving dates would have been a completely clear, unmistaken signal that more is coming, and might have also motivated people to wait for the full info before making any judgements. It's one thing to say there will be more info "soon" or to clearly provide people with a date in the upcoming days that they can wait for.I'm not sure what they could say about the writing, really, other than clarify what seem to be plot holes and lore mistakes. What people think of the stories and the writing is subjective, after all. For example, I really dislike Rigurt and never want to see him again (along with Lady Laurent and Stibbons), but I've seen someone else say they love Rigurt and are always happy to see him show up. There's really not much ZOS can say about that. You didn't like the way Sanguine was portrayed (and nor did others) but some people did. You see a trope character, others may see a character they really like.
Yes, it's correct that some aspects are subjective, but still, there are points of criticism that come up quite often, and even if there might never be a consensus about it, I think it's at least something that could be discussed. Like the increasing meme-y-ness, the use of modern language, the quips and type of humour, the way "romance" and flirting is usually done in dialogues. Even if it's just acknowledging that, yes, there are players who don't like that the way it is, so future content could try to aim for more variety. The flirting is strangely similar most of the time, the fan favorites are mostly the same type, the type of humour has also become strangely same-y. How about telling us, for example, that the criticism about central friendly characters being mostly one certain young type was seen? It did actually come up in discussions about companions several times after the first two pairs were released, by the way - people commented that, after 1 young man and 3 young women, they'd actually like to get some older character, too. And then we got Azandar, and Zerith one year later, but still no elderly lady, for example. And when we now look at quest npcs and dialogue options, I see that same tendency for certain character types again. Well, anyway; I'd also appreciate something like a simple comment that, yes, actually it wouldn't have been a bad idea to have different endings about what happens with Mannimarco or with Solstice, and that a story could also end with something else than the evil baddie getting killed (which was mostly the case until now, it's almost always the same type of ending). Basically telling us that they will aim for more creativity and less formulaic stories - unless most people like formulaic, but I'm not sure about that?Sounds like it might be somewhat sizable: three different factions, quests for them, and a landscape to move about in. There are going to be four total instanced areas, though, so that might make for a smaller overall outside zone. It's certainly an interesting concept and I wonder how it will play out.
I'm not sure how far faction quests will go. From the stream alone, I had the impression that it were mainly certain general tasks (something like "Defeat the most bosses in this zone" or "Open gates to reach some location" - and the team that does it first wins) and you could just choose which team to join for that competition. But who knows. I wonder whether they'll be able to sufficiently test it on PTS, since there might not be that many players around. I mean, I remember my first PTS Writhing Fortress run - we were literally 6 people, on day 1. Which then was also the reason many bugs could not be spotted before release. I truly hope we won't get another debacle like with the fortress again!Oh, sure, just a quick trip to Apocrypha to get a book published! Won't cost you your sanity or put you in servitude to tentacle god, I'm sure.
What's the problem with tentacles? Tentacles are awesome!I found one in Gristmung Hold and the other in that Stirk camp near Mor Naril. So, yeah, the books were definitely in Worm Cult territory. Makes me wonder if the Cult uses them as some sort of teaching tool. A primer of sorts, so the cultists learn the thoughts and philosophies of Lord Mannimarco.
But were the idiot cultists even smart enough for that?
I think I found those lorebooks in... What was it? I can't remember the first one anymore, but I do think it was some Worm Cult location, and the second was in Aldwilne Citadel, I think.Well, seems like the Stirk Fellowship will take anyone, even psychopaths. Maybe now I'm glad I was never canonically a member of it.
Even if you had been, I'm not sure whether that's something to worry about - most people would have already forgotten about it anyway. Including the player character. What's a Planemeld, by the way?I know people expected some Dark Brotherhood content, but I never saw the announcement about that. (I just assumed everyone had heard about it on some social media I don't use.)
It was in some stream. They shortly talked about future content (though I'm not sure anymore now whether it was about this year's content or future content in general) and someone of the devs said "We know" and that hand symbol was shown for a moment. So that was very clear.If they do continue the Darien story, they might want to give it a bit of time to give the impression that he's been out and about, coping with his caged light in his own way. I really wasn't expecting any more with him in the near future. I guess the impact it might have will depend on what happens to him. For me the gap between west and east Solstice didn't work because there was this sense of urgency and 'we have to stop them!' and then we just kicked our heels for however long. The way I left things with Darien felt like a finish to a story.
It's true some passing of time is needed for the events of the "failed" non-tavern ending. On the other hand, there are enough situations in game where a passing of time is even spoken about but still you get quest after quest without any interruption (mostly thinking of the Mages Guild quests now when Valaste tells you she needs to study a tome, but then immediately tells you she finished her studies and... whatever you needed to do afterwards).
Then again, what's with people who chose the romance ending this time? What happens to Darien afterwards, where does he go? Isn't it strange that there's suddenly no contact anymore for over a year (or several years, depending on how and when he shows up again)? Well, I do hope we have some more or less believable passing of time now and they won't tell us it's all just one year again for the content of the following decade.I did see it, and there are some interesting questions submitted. I don't know enough about Mara and Heart's Day to have anything to ask, but I will surely be interested in reading the answers.
I especially enjoyed the disguised lore criticism about Sanguine worshippers being invited to that festival we see in the upcoming event. It was something I too had been thinking about - somehow addressing this. Now I wonder whether there's something else I should adress. Perhaps I can think of something; it's still a while until the thread gets closed, I think?
I also wondered about the timing; I mean, sure, collecting questions before the event, so the answers can presented at the start of the event, does make sense - but on the other hand I'm sure that the event itself will lead to many new lore questions that then will remain unanswered, which is also a pity.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I don't know. They're making a major change to how content is delivered. When they started with "content will be free," of course I immediately wanted to know how they were going to subsidize that. That information was pretty important to get across. They had so much to talk about, such a short time to do it, that there was no way they could get to all of it. Seemed like they wanted to focus on season 0 mostly, and so the things coming later got a bare mention or simply just shown on the road map. I would have loved to hear about any story content coming up, but since it appears that isn't even slated for the first quarter, it's not too surprising they didn't talk much (or at all) about it.
Yes, there clearly is a lot to talk about. Maybe it would have made sense to split the whole thing and announce beforehand that there would be some 3-part-presentation (as an example, one stream for each season) and already set dates for it, like once a week for the following 3 weeks? I know they said there will be more streams and news articles about everything, but already giving dates would have been a completely clear, unmistaken signal that more is coming, and might have also motivated people to wait for the full info before making any judgements. It's one thing to say there will be more info "soon" or to clearly provide people with a date in the upcoming days that they can wait for.
Yes, having a series of streams announced beforehand would have been a great way to go. When they announced the reveal, they did also say there will be one on the 12th focused entirely on base game updates, but they hadn't yet given a time for it (haven't seen if it's got one yet). Two is a good start, but I think they could have benefited from having already scheduled a couple more, considering this is a new way of doing things and there is so much to talk about.I'm not sure what they could say about the writing, really, other than clarify what seem to be plot holes and lore mistakes. What people think of the stories and the writing is subjective, after all. For example, I really dislike Rigurt and never want to see him again (along with Lady Laurent and Stibbons), but I've seen someone else say they love Rigurt and are always happy to see him show up. There's really not much ZOS can say about that. You didn't like the way Sanguine was portrayed (and nor did others) but some people did. You see a trope character, others may see a character they really like.
Yes, it's correct that some aspects are subjective, but still, there are points of criticism that come up quite often, and even if there might never be a consensus about it, I think it's at least something that could be discussed. Like the increasing meme-y-ness, the use of modern language, the quips and type of humour, the way "romance" and flirting is usually done in dialogues. Even if it's just acknowledging that, yes, there are players who don't like that the way it is, so future content could try to aim for more variety. The flirting is strangely similar most of the time, the fan favorites are mostly the same type, the type of humour has also become strangely same-y. How about telling us, for example, that the criticism about central friendly characters being mostly one certain young type was seen? It did actually come up in discussions about companions several times after the first two pairs were released, by the way - people commented that, after 1 young man and 3 young women, they'd actually like to get some older character, too. And then we got Azandar, and Zerith one year later, but still no elderly lady, for example. And when we now look at quest npcs and dialogue options, I see that same tendency for certain character types again. Well, anyway; I'd also appreciate something like a simple comment that, yes, actually it wouldn't have been a bad idea to have different endings about what happens with Mannimarco or with Solstice, and that a story could also end with something else than the evil baddie getting killed (which was mostly the case until now, it's almost always the same type of ending). Basically telling us that they will aim for more creativity and less formulaic stories - unless most people like formulaic, but I'm not sure about that?
I'm not sure how that discussion would go, though. Should they write their stories to the orders of the players? If they said they heard and understood our issues with the writing and would keep it in mind, would that be a satisfactory answer? I remember people complaining about the companions and asking for perfect parity in their representation and I remember thinking that was unrealistic. Also keep in mind the community wanted to be able to flirt with certain npcs, and now we have that. In my opinion, that did not make the writing or story better. Other people loved it.
Well, I don't know. Maybe a good discussion could be had between ZOS and the community about writing.
As for fomulaic stories, that depends on the person. I remember once reading something that talked about the mystery genre, and how authors were told to not make their mysteries too difficult, because readers liked to be able to figure out who the culprit was before the detective/investigator in the story did. I've studied and read so much literature and writing that it's very hard to surprise me narratively, so I really enjoy it when something I did not expect crops up in a story.Sounds like it might be somewhat sizable: three different factions, quests for them, and a landscape to move about in. There are going to be four total instanced areas, though, so that might make for a smaller overall outside zone. It's certainly an interesting concept and I wonder how it will play out.
I'm not sure how far faction quests will go. From the stream alone, I had the impression that it were mainly certain general tasks (something like "Defeat the most bosses in this zone" or "Open gates to reach some location" - and the team that does it first wins) and you could just choose which team to join for that competition. But who knows. I wonder whether they'll be able to sufficiently test it on PTS, since there might not be that many players around. I mean, I remember my first PTS Writhing Fortress run - we were literally 6 people, on day 1. Which then was also the reason many bugs could not be spotted before release. I truly hope we won't get another debacle like with the fortress again!
I wonder if more people might try the PTS this time around because of the promise of increased communication from ZOS. I know from the forums that some people stopped participating in PTS because they felt their feedback was never being heard, so maybe they'll try again and see if the new leadership follows through on that promise. I think ZOS wants to avoid another Writhing Fortress debacle, too.
It's more the god part that concerns me than the tentacle part.I found one in Gristmung Hold and the other in that Stirk camp near Mor Naril. So, yeah, the books were definitely in Worm Cult territory. Makes me wonder if the Cult uses them as some sort of teaching tool. A primer of sorts, so the cultists learn the thoughts and philosophies of Lord Mannimarco.
But were the idiot cultists even smart enough for that?
I think I found those lorebooks in... What was it? I can't remember the first one anymore, but I do think it was some Worm Cult location, and the second was in Aldwilne Citadel, I think.
Maybe if the book is read out to them with copious explanations they could follow along, or get the gist of it. Now, whether they could remember any of it or put the ideas into practice....Well, seems like the Stirk Fellowship will take anyone, even psychopaths. Maybe now I'm glad I was never canonically a member of it.
Even if you had been, I'm not sure whether that's something to worry about - most people would have already forgotten about it anyway. Including the player character. What's a Planemeld, by the way?
Lol!I know people expected some Dark Brotherhood content, but I never saw the announcement about that. (I just assumed everyone had heard about it on some social media I don't use.)
It was in some stream. They shortly talked about future content (though I'm not sure anymore now whether it was about this year's content or future content in general) and someone of the devs said "We know" and that hand symbol was shown for a moment. So that was very clear.
Ah, yeah. I missed that.If they do continue the Darien story, they might want to give it a bit of time to give the impression that he's been out and about, coping with his caged light in his own way. I really wasn't expecting any more with him in the near future. I guess the impact it might have will depend on what happens to him. For me the gap between west and east Solstice didn't work because there was this sense of urgency and 'we have to stop them!' and then we just kicked our heels for however long. The way I left things with Darien felt like a finish to a story.
It's true some passing of time is needed for the events of the "failed" non-tavern ending. On the other hand, there are enough situations in game where a passing of time is even spoken about but still you get quest after quest without any interruption (mostly thinking of the Mages Guild quests now when Valaste tells you she needs to study a tome, but then immediately tells you she finished her studies and... whatever you needed to do afterwards).
Then again, what's with people who chose the romance ending this time? What happens to Darien afterwards, where does he go? Isn't it strange that there's suddenly no contact anymore for over a year (or several years, depending on how and when he shows up again)? Well, I do hope we have some more or less believable passing of time now and they won't tell us it's all just one year again for the content of the following decade.
That's a good point. Since there were different endings for that quest, how does a follow-up quest look? Do they do three different versions of it? And, yeah, romancing Darien and then having him disappear for a bit is odd. That's the problem with romancing any npc except a companion, though--they don't tend to hang around. Or if they are stationed somewhere in game, could you go visit them and have them remember you? Or would they just have their stock dialogue from whatever point in time they were first installed?I did see it, and there are some interesting questions submitted. I don't know enough about Mara and Heart's Day to have anything to ask, but I will surely be interested in reading the answers.
I especially enjoyed the disguised lore criticism about Sanguine worshippers being invited to that festival we see in the upcoming event. It was something I too had been thinking about - somehow addressing this. Now I wonder whether there's something else I should adress. Perhaps I can think of something; it's still a while until the thread gets closed, I think?
I also wondered about the timing; I mean, sure, collecting questions before the event, so the answers can presented at the start of the event, does make sense - but on the other hand I'm sure that the event itself will lead to many new lore questions that then will remain unanswered, which is also a pity.
I keep forgetting there's a new event. Are there Sanguine people there, too? I didn't particularly note that question. The loremaster's archives are always interesting to me and never answer as many questions as I want answered. It's too bad they can't happen more frequently and answer more questions.
Edit to add: I just remembered that Sanguine got added to one of the long-standing events at some point. Jester's Festival, I think? So maybe there's a long-term Sanguine plan to infiltrate every celebration and festivity Tamriel has to offer.Edited by metheglyn on January 9, 2026 6:41AM0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When they announced the reveal, they did also say there will be one on the 12th focused entirely on base game updates, but they hadn't yet given a time for it (haven't seen if it's got one yet).
Where did they announce that? I must have missed it. All I heard was that there were more streams and news pieces planned "soon".I'm not sure how that discussion would go, though. Should they write their stories to the orders of the players?
Nah, I don't think they need to follow specific wishes completely. But when it comes to general criticism - people wishing for more variety in characters or a greater focus than just on some pre-defined "favorites", or people wishing for a story that doesn't follow the same pattern of "evil baddie causes world-ending threat until heroic player character kills evil baddie" - then I think this can be taken into consideration when writing, while still following one's own creative ideas.
If I'd be writing fiction for a public, I think I'd actually see it as a challenge and think I would enjoy it. Of course not people complaining about my general artistic vision or making unfriendly demands, but if someone told me, for example, "Hey, your main characters are always young people, how about trying an old, senior age person for once?", it would make me think what character might be fitting, and what kind of story could be made, what different themes might or might not come up... I actually think it's interesting. I would not see it as an annoyance, but a challenge in the positive way. A way to broaden my horizon and maybe learn a few things through taking a perspective that I don't usually take.
Of course I don't know whether the average writer today cares for that and is open-minded enough for it. But for me, that always felt like a central part also of roleplay, for example. Especially when it comes to fantasy settings with completely different cultures, societies and habits. Seeing that world through someone else's eyes is the interesting thing. Just playing myself all the time, thinking the usual real life way, doing the usual real life things, being presented a completely similar world in morals and habits - that's completely boring for me.If they said they heard and understood our issues with the writing and would keep it in mind, would that be a satisfactory answer?
It would be a start, at least, since so far, we never heard any word on it and I'm truly not sure whether they might think everything in that regard is awesome, and everyone loves those moral lessons and simple clichéd characters.Also keep in mind the community wanted to be able to flirt with certain npcs, and now we have that. In my opinion, that did not make the writing or story better. Other people loved it.
The main problem I have with it is not that they implemented it, but how it was done. With different dialogue options being introduced, having some subtle option to make some flirty or romantic comment once in a while - in a fitting speech style, appropriate for the situation, fitting for the relationship between the npc and the player character - wouldn't have been a problem for me at all. The problem is that it often feels random (like flirting with that woman at the camp right after you told her her husband died), the wording is entirely exaggerated, the situations often feel unfitting (like inside the Argonian temple when in a hurry to stop Wormblood), and there's just too much focus on that compared to other things that would be just as or more interesting. So, basically the problem is that it feels like they entirely focus on fanservice here (and even if some people might dislike me for it - no, I don't think a narration should be written with people in mind who fancy a character so much that they applaud when ever that character appears somewhere, no matter what they do and whether it even makes any sense for the story; I'm absolute not saying everyone who likes a character is like that - I too like some ESO characters, like Revus or Sotha Sil - , but I know that absolutely uncritical, almost brainless fan-ism as a phenomenon does exist, and I don't think writing should focus on that mindset), no matter if it fits or not. Instead romance should feel like a normal, natural part of the narration and fictional world.
But then again, no matter which emotion we're talking about - sadness, anger, amusement - it's all often depicted rather weirdly in dialogues lately. You have characters mourn deeply - for barely a minute. You have some very violent "angry" dialogue options when the lines before and right after that line felt much calmer and more neutral, so it also feels strangely out of place. There are "jokes" that just pop up randomly, and honestly, I even found some completely incomprehensible, let alone unfitting for a situation.
While we're at it; I think certain "fan favorites" didn't just surprisingly become a thing, by the way, but were designed specifically with creating hype in mind (Mary Sue type characters, flawless, "witty" - allegedly, at least - , sporty, absolutely extraordinary in their profession, young, conventionally pretty/handsome, flirty, including having npc admirers or some background lore with lots of past lovers because of that weird "this person is popular, that means they're awesome" psychology thing that seems to work with many people, etc). It's a marketing instrument. And honestly, I dislike characters that feel like they are designed as a marketing thing instead of an organic part of a story and world on principle (Same goes for token characters that don't feel like there's much beyond them, but that's a different topic). I very much prefer if characters become popular because they're just interesting and well-written characters, depicted convincingly, with all their strengths as well as flaws.Well, I don't know. Maybe a good discussion could be had between ZOS and the community about writing.
I'd be willing to have one.As for fomulaic stories, that depends on the person. I remember once reading something that talked about the mystery genre, and how authors were told to not make their mysteries too difficult, because readers liked to be able to figure out who the culprit was before the detective/investigator in the story did. I've studied and read so much literature and writing that it's very hard to surprise me narratively, so I really enjoy it when something I did not expect crops up in a story.
I've read that some people enjoy the feeling to be "smarter" than some fictional character - or the other way round: they dislike the feeling not to get what the protagonist already understood. I'm not sure though if it helps if some mystery (or puzzle...) gets extremely simplified then. At least I couldn't feel smart for solving some extremely easy riddle.I wonder if more people might try the PTS this time around because of the promise of increased communication from ZOS. I know from the forums that some people stopped participating in PTS because they felt their feedback was never being heard, so maybe they'll try again and see if the new leadership follows through on that promise. I think ZOS wants to avoid another Writhing Fortress debacle, too.
Another thing that made people leave was that one incident where people's accounts were suspended by mistake after they've been active on PTS. During an event, of all things. Well, it made me more careful too, I have to admit. I think twice now whether I really want to do some testing, and I usually wait for a few days at least, to see whether someone reports some severe problem.
And furthermore, it's a problem that the PTS takes so much disc space - if I install it on this machine, I barely have space for anything else left (well, I do have a few games permanently installed, but once PTS is installed, there's no space to test anything else anymore, which is also an argument against it). It would be much more convenient, and I think more people would think about trying it out, if it was a bit smaller.It's more the god part that concerns me than the tentacle part.
What would go wrong? We're all friends now, after all.Maybe if the book is read out to them with copious explanations they could follow along, or get the gist of it. Now, whether they could remember any of it or put the ideas into practice....
It's actually funny to imagine a philosophical school of Mannimarco.That's a good point. Since there were different endings for that quest, how does a follow-up quest look? Do they do three different versions of it?
It's not truly different endings. Either you calm him down and "romance" him, or you just calm him down, or someone else calms him down. In the end, it's the same. And I'm sure if he shows up again it will be about that weird thing happening to him again, so we're called to investigate. Or something. Maybe there will be slightly different dialogue options depending on which ending was chosen in Solstice, but honestly, I somehow don't expect a big difference.And, yeah, romancing Darien and then having him disappear for a bit is odd. That's the problem with romancing any npc except a companion, though--they don't tend to hang around. Or if they are stationed somewhere in game, could you go visit them and have them remember you? Or would they just have their stock dialogue from whatever point in time they were first installed?
It's funny actually that Revus is one of the few characters who actually have a permanent home and can be found there at any time. And then, there are character who actually do have a home but still disappear after the quest, like Isobel's parents. But we already discussed that.I keep forgetting there's a new event. Are there Sanguine people there, too? I didn't particularly note that question. The loremaster's archives are always interesting to me and never answer as many questions as I want answered. It's too bad they can't happen more frequently and answer more questions.
Edit to add: I just remembered that Sanguine got added to one of the long-standing events at some point. Jester's Festival, I think? So maybe there's a long-term Sanguine plan to infiltrate every celebration and festivity Tamriel has to offer.
Edited by metheglyn on January 9, 2026 7:41AM
Yes, I too would enjoy to see the Loremaster's Archive more often, and a bigger amount of questions being answered.
As for Sanguine worshippers at the festival: Yes, they show up there. Though for me, the fact that they show up and try to cause trouble is not the real problem. I can see that happen with cultists. The problem I have with what I've seen on PTS is that the Mara priest fully accepts them and gives us some speech about how Mara loves everyone. The "we're all friends" writing we see so often lately, and of course the Sanguine (and generally daedra) trivialization.
It's strange, really. We get some human individuals presented as the clichéd evil baddies, but daedric beings of all things become more humanized with every release. And that while daedra would be actually the creatures/individuals in TES lore where being totally "evil" (without doubts, empathy, mercy, morals,...) would make sense the most. They're designed as non-mortal, completely foreign, demonic beings after all. While some cultist, no matter how immoral, is still human, and as such would have some emotions and possible doubts.
I would have actually enjoyed seeing something like that with Mannimarco - anything human behind the facade of the cult leader. I mean, okay, in his diary he seemed a little uncomfortable about inhabiting Wormy's body (well, not out of pity for Wormy, but it didn't feel quite right for himself), but it wasn't much. They could have given us a bit more of him writing about his feelings - it was his private diary, after all; and where to find some written-down sentiments one would not publicly want to share (to keep the strong, invincible facade intact) if not a diary?!
Edited by Syldras on January 10, 2026 12:55AM@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake2 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭When they announced the reveal, they did also say there will be one on the 12th focused entirely on base game updates, but they hadn't yet given a time for it (haven't seen if it's got one yet).
Where did they announce that? I must have missed it. All I heard was that there were more streams and news pieces planned "soon".
It was in the same article that announced the reveal, it just didn't have a time yet. They've since posted the time for it: Jan 12 at 11 a.m. EST. That's eight a.m. for me--not used to these things being so early!I'm not sure how that discussion would go, though. Should they write their stories to the orders of the players?
Nah, I don't think they need to follow specific wishes completely. But when it comes to general criticism - people wishing for more variety in characters or a greater focus than just on some pre-defined "favorites", or people wishing for a story that doesn't follow the same pattern of "evil baddie causes world-ending threat until heroic player character kills evil baddie" - then I think this can be taken into consideration when writing, while still following one's own creative ideas.
If I'd be writing fiction for a public, I think I'd actually see it as a challenge and think I would enjoy it. Of course not people complaining about my general artistic vision or making unfriendly demands, but if someone told me, for example, "Hey, your main characters are always young people, how about trying an old, senior age person for once?", it would make me think what character might be fitting, and what kind of story could be made, what different themes might or might not come up... I actually think it's interesting. I would not see it as an annoyance, but a challenge in the positive way. A way to broaden my horizon and maybe learn a few things through taking a perspective that I don't usually take.
Of course I don't know whether the average writer today cares for that and is open-minded enough for it. But for me, that always felt like a central part also of roleplay, for example. Especially when it comes to fantasy settings with completely different cultures, societies and habits. Seeing that world through someone else's eyes is the interesting thing. Just playing myself all the time, thinking the usual real life way, doing the usual real life things, being presented a completely similar world in morals and habits - that's completely boring for me.
Something I wonder about sometimes is how much freedom the individual writers have. To start with, they're writing for a world/IP that has been around for decades, so they have to write within those parameters. Does the writing team come up with the overarching story together, or is that more the domain of the department lead? Then do quests get assigned out, or do the writers choose which quests they'd most like to write? Actually, I wonder about the entire process of writing for an MMO, but really I wonder how much control each writer has over their portion of the writing.
Anyway, those musings aside, I really don't know if a writer would want suggestions on main characters or topics. What keeps coming to my mind is the size of the audience for ESO, and how many differing opinions and suggestions there might be for any given story. You might say, "Fan favorites show up too much and all seem like the same character" and plenty of people might agree with you, but then others might say, "I love it when fan favorites show up." (Honestly, I'd prefer if they didn't focus at all on fan favorites--that they'd only bring characters back when and if it made sense for them to show up.) Where am I even going with all this? I don't know. Mostly I think writing for an MMO is probably quite complex just from the technical standpoint, since it's not just a direct narrative like a novel. Most of the story is conveyed through dialogue with npcs, and then has to have checks for a player character's previous experiences in the game world, as well as branching dialogues, and now player response options where they can work them in. I think it would be very challenging to write in that format and I also wonder if that somewhat limits the creativity of the writers. I know, I know, this is just more pointless musing, since I don't actually know how it all works.If they said they heard and understood our issues with the writing and would keep it in mind, would that be a satisfactory answer?
It would be a start, at least, since so far, we never heard any word on it and I'm truly not sure whether they might think everything in that regard is awesome, and everyone loves those moral lessons and simple clichéd characters.
I'm sure ZOS is aware that their players like different aspects of the stories and writing, or dislike some of the recurring characters. I've seen plenty of people express their dislike of the idea of a Sheogorath story. In the survey, I even rated the Sheogorath story the lowest I could for excitement level and told them I don't like Sheogorath and don't want to see him. Of course, he's part of the world, so I guess there's no keeping him out of it at this point. But back to the topic, I agree it would be nice to have some acknowledgement that the story didn't appeal to some people.Also keep in mind the community wanted to be able to flirt with certain npcs, and now we have that. In my opinion, that did not make the writing or story better. Other people loved it.
The main problem I have with it is not that they implemented it, but how it was done. With different dialogue options being introduced, having some subtle option to make some flirty or romantic comment once in a while - in a fitting speech style, appropriate for the situation, fitting for the relationship between the npc and the player character - wouldn't have been a problem for me at all. The problem is that it often feels random (like flirting with that woman at the camp right after you told her her husband died), the wording is entirely exaggerated, the situations often feel unfitting (like inside the Argonian temple when in a hurry to stop Wormblood), and there's just too much focus on that compared to other things that would be just as or more interesting. So, basically the problem is that it feels like they entirely focus on fanservice here (and even if some people might dislike me for it - no, I don't think a narration should be written with people in mind who fancy a character so much that they applaud when ever that character appears somewhere, no matter what they do and whether it even makes any sense for the story; I'm absolute not saying everyone who likes a character is like that - I too like some ESO characters, like Revus or Sotha Sil - , but I know that absolutely uncritical, almost brainless fan-ism as a phenomenon does exist, and I don't think writing should focus on that mindset), no matter if it fits or not. Instead romance should feel like a normal, natural part of the narration and fictional world.
But then again, no matter which emotion we're talking about - sadness, anger, amusement - it's all often depicted rather weirdly in dialogues lately. You have characters mourn deeply - for barely a minute. You have some very violent "angry" dialogue options when the lines before and right after that line felt much calmer and more neutral, so it also feels strangely out of place. There are "jokes" that just pop up randomly, and honestly, I even found some completely incomprehensible, let alone unfitting for a situation.
I agree that the emotional aspects of the recent story were a bit jarring and sometimes even awkward. Prince Azah mourning Merric and then the very next line seeming to be over it--and it never really came up again in any meaningful way. Some of that I think is down to the player response options--they are trying to give players ways to play their characters true to how they see them, and there probably are people who want their characters to always go for the joke first, or be really flirty. I think they could do better with the wording of the options, for sure--they're all pretty blunt at this point. Since they're always accompanied by the icon telling us what they're meant to be (kind, grim, merciful, ruthless, joker, flirty) there's definitely room for more subtlety and nuance in the actual words.
And yes, I think there is too much fanservice in the writing lately. It's great that fans take up and embrace certain npcs or make more of them than originally appear (we talked about the bread thing already), but I don't think ZOS should pander to that or take it up to the extent they have.While we're at it; I think certain "fan favorites" didn't just surprisingly become a thing, by the way, but were designed specifically with creating hype in mind (Mary Sue type characters, flawless, "witty" - allegedly, at least - , sporty, absolutely extraordinary in their profession, young, conventionally pretty/handsome, flirty, including having npc admirers or some background lore with lots of past lovers because of that weird "this person is popular, that means they're awesome" psychology thing that seems to work with many people, etc). It's a marketing instrument. And honestly, I dislike characters that feel like they are designed as a marketing thing instead of an organic part of a story and world on principle (Same goes for token characters that don't feel like there's much beyond them, but that's a different topic). I very much prefer if characters become popular because they're just interesting and well-written characters, depicted convincingly, with all their strengths as well as flaws.
I wonder if those characters really were created to become fan favorites, or if that's just the type of character a lot of fans like. Eh, it's probably a combination of both. But I do see what you mean about a certain character template that shows up often enough.
I think I would be, but then realistically I'd probably just lurk like I do in most threads.I wonder if more people might try the PTS this time around because of the promise of increased communication from ZOS. I know from the forums that some people stopped participating in PTS because they felt their feedback was never being heard, so maybe they'll try again and see if the new leadership follows through on that promise. I think ZOS wants to avoid another Writhing Fortress debacle, too.
Another thing that made people leave was that one incident where people's accounts were suspended by mistake after they've been active on PTS. During an event, of all things. Well, it made me more careful too, I have to admit. I think twice now whether I really want to do some testing, and I usually wait for a few days at least, to see whether someone reports some severe problem.
Was that the time when PTS versions got ported/copied to live, and some bad actors immediately took advantage of it? Yeah, that was rough for the people who hadn't done anything but their account was still blocked because of it.And furthermore, it's a problem that the PTS takes so much disc space - if I install it on this machine, I barely have space for anything else left (well, I do have a few games permanently installed, but once PTS is installed, there's no space to test anything else anymore, which is also an argument against it). It would be much more convenient, and I think more people would think about trying it out, if it was a bit smaller.
Yeah, not sure I'd even have room for it on my computer, but it's kind of a moot point. I don't have any interest in going on PTS.
I will never be friends with Mora. Ever.
It really is. I amused myself by imagining cultists sitting in desks, getting lessons on how to view the world.That's a good point. Since there were different endings for that quest, how does a follow-up quest look? Do they do three different versions of it?
It's not truly different endings. Either you calm him down and "romance" him, or you just calm him down, or someone else calms him down. In the end, it's the same. And I'm sure if he shows up again it will be about that weird thing happening to him again, so we're called to investigate. Or something. Maybe there will be slightly different dialogue options depending on which ending was chosen in Solstice, but honestly, I somehow don't expect a big difference.
Oh, well...if he gets calmed down regardless, what's the 'failure' option I thought existed?And, yeah, romancing Darien and then having him disappear for a bit is odd. That's the problem with romancing any npc except a companion, though--they don't tend to hang around. Or if they are stationed somewhere in game, could you go visit them and have them remember you? Or would they just have their stock dialogue from whatever point in time they were first installed?
It's funny actually that Revus is one of the few characters who actually have a permanent home and can be found there at any time. And then, there are character who actually do have a home but still disappear after the quest, like Isobel's parents. But we already discussed that.
I've popped by Revus' place in Gnissis from time to time, just to chat. Not that there's much to chat about, but I pretend we're catching up on recent events. I love that guy, I really do. (Not in a romantic way)I keep forgetting there's a new event. Are there Sanguine people there, too? I didn't particularly note that question. The loremaster's archives are always interesting to me and never answer as many questions as I want answered. It's too bad they can't happen more frequently and answer more questions.
Edit to add: I just remembered that Sanguine got added to one of the long-standing events at some point. Jester's Festival, I think? So maybe there's a long-term Sanguine plan to infiltrate every celebration and festivity Tamriel has to offer.
Edited by metheglyn on January 9, 2026 7:41AM
Yes, I too would enjoy to see the Loremaster's Archive more often, and a bigger amount of questions being answered.
As for Sanguine worshippers at the festival: Yes, they show up there. Though for me, the fact that they show up and try to cause trouble is not the real problem. I can see that happen with cultists. The problem I have with what I've seen on PTS is that the Mara priest fully accepts them and gives us some speech about how Mara loves everyone. The "we're all friends" writing we see so often lately, and of course the Sanguine (and generally daedra) trivialization.
It's strange, really. We get some human individuals presented as the clichéd evil baddies, but daedric beings of all things become more humanized with every release. And that while daedra would be actually the creatures/individuals in TES lore where being totally "evil" (without doubts, empathy, mercy, morals,...) would make sense the most. They're designed as non-mortal, completely foreign, demonic beings after all. While some cultist, no matter how immoral, is still human, and as such would have some emotions and possible doubts.
I would have actually enjoyed seeing something like that with Mannimarco - anything human behind the facade of the cult leader. I mean, okay, in his diary he seemed a little uncomfortable about inhabiting Wormy's body (well, not out of pity for Wormy, but it didn't feel quite right for himself), but it wasn't much. They could have given us a bit more of him writing about his feelings - it was his private diary, after all; and where to find some written-down sentiments one would not publicly want to share (to keep the strong, invincible facade intact) if not a diary?!
A Mannimarco diary, unedited, uncensored...that would be something!
As to the Mara priest and the Sanguine cultists--oh boy. I guess I'll see how it plays out when the event comes to live.
I see your point about the humanizing of certain daedra lately, but I do think they've kept from going too far with that. Ezhkel is a good example of that, and I think Torvesaard was, too. With both of those characters, we got to see daedra who weren't the usual style, who had more to them than what we've usually seen with daedra. Of course, both had no active prince to serve, either. Once Torvesaard got Ithelia back, he reverted to standard daedra pretty fast.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It was in the same article that announced the reveal, it just didn't have a time yet. They've since posted the time for it: Jan 12 at 11 a.m. EST. That's eight a.m. for me--not used to these things being so early!
That's late afternoon here. On Monday... Well, I'll see whether I'll get it arranged.
Oh, I see there's a new article on it now. I appreciate that it includes a complete list of topics they'll talk about. Looks like I wouldn't miss too much that I'd be very curious about (I mean, I'll see how the stable mounts have changed once it goes live, and many aspects like bag and stable updates are already obsolete for me; the only thing I wonder about right now is how that vampire quest starter looks like - is that something actually in game, or do they just put it into the store like the usual event quests? I guess the latter? Then it's not too exciting, although I appreciate a lot that it makes it much easier for people to just create a vampire character now). The thing I'd be mostly interested about is truly the story content. I'm sure we'll hear about that in another stream.
It's a bit of a pity they didn't announce a few upcoming streams at once. It would give a better overview about the scope of what's coming. Also makes planning easier. But I already criticized that they announce their streams so extremely late lately.Anyway, those musings aside, I really don't know if a writer would want suggestions on main characters or topics. What keeps coming to my mind is the size of the audience for ESO, and how many differing opinions and suggestions there might be for any given story. You might say, "Fan favorites show up too much and all seem like the same character" and plenty of people might agree with you, but then others might say, "I love it when fan favorites show up." (Honestly, I'd prefer if they didn't focus at all on fan favorites--that they'd only bring characters back when and if it made sense for them to show up.)
I mean, realistically, we need to consider that this is partially art, but also partially a commercial product. Even mostly, if there's expectations coming from MS to have a certain revenue each year (I'm not even criticising that here; it's normal for a commercial enterprise). I'd think best in terms of revenue would probably be to appeal to as many people as possible? So the question is: Would a wider variety of characters, which would attract people who are bored by them being too same-y right now, make the people who love their few fan favorites leave?I've seen plenty of people express their dislike of the idea of a Sheogorath story. In the survey, I even rated the Sheogorath story the lowest I could for excitement level and told them I don't like Sheogorath and don't want to see him. Of course, he's part of the world, so I guess there's no keeping him out of it at this point.
The thing I worry most about is that it will just be a huge conglomerate of silly jokes. Though I don't find Sheogorath that interesting either. Especially not ESO's iteration. Funny thing, I'd still like to explore the Shivering Isles some day. Not for Sheo, but for the people there - I do think that, in principle, interesting stories could be told there. Also, I really liked the design of the main city back in Oblivion. But I know that, since they said there won't be a zone, this clearly won't be what we'd get this year anyway. Sheogorath will show up somewhere else. And that immediately makes it even less interesting for me.I wonder if those characters really were created to become fan favorites, or if that's just the type of character a lot of fans like. Eh, it's probably a combination of both. But I do see what you mean about a certain character template that shows up often enough.
Of course it's a design that by itself has mass appeal, but I do think it was chosen mostly with exactly that in mind. Is there another reason to write characters who are supposed to be literally "perfect" - smart, active, flirty, absolutely stunning in their field, etc? That's no coincidence.Was that the time when PTS versions got ported/copied to live, and some bad actors immediately took advantage of it? Yeah, that was rough for the people who hadn't done anything but their account was still blocked because of it.
Honestly, I'm not even sure anymore what exactly happened. I was lucky that I was not doing any PTS stuff arround that time due to time constraints. I had been, irregularly, before that (and after that, as you know).I will never be friends with Mora. Ever.
But Mara says we should love everyoneIt really is. I amused myself by imagining cultists sitting in desks, getting lessons on how to view the world.
Maybe one day, in the future. People can still venerate him as a great philosopher, after all, no matter if he's still among them or not.Oh, well...if he gets calmed down regardless, what's the 'failure' option I thought existed?
Do you want to know then? I put an extra spoiler box inside another spoiler box in one of my posts here yesterday (or whenever it was) just about that. It's really not a failure, from my point of view, and barely makes any difference (and actually, visually I liked it even more than the tavern ending).I've popped by Revus' place in Gnissis from time to time, just to chat. Not that there's much to chat about, but I pretend we're catching up on recent events. I love that guy, I really do. (Not in a romantic way)
Some of my characters would be romantically interested. But they still wouldn't do anything about that if the dialogues are horrible. He's truly an interesting character, though. His home also looks nice.A Mannimarco diary, unedited, uncensored...that would be something!
It would probably contain a lot of complaining about his idiot cultists, some complaining about Vanny, even more complaining about Wormy's body feeling unsufficient,... He must have been horribly frustrated. Maybe it's better back in Coldharbor, if he's truly there (as our character needs to state, at the ending celebration I think it was)?
Though, if we think about that more, it also makes no sense. And leads to lots of questions, none of them truly to answer since we don't even know if he was cooperating with Bal now or not.
I feel sorry for Wormy, though. He really died for nothing.As to the Mara priest and the Sanguine cultists--oh boy. I guess I'll see how it plays out when the event comes to live.
I hope they might still change a few things (since there were lots of criticism in the PTS forum about that), but then again, this all was so central about how the quests were designed... I don't even think it's possible to adjust just a few things for it to not mess up lore anymore. And I don't think they'd be willing to rewrite the whole event.I see your point about the humanizing of certain daedra lately, but I do think they've kept from going too far with that. Ezhkel is a good example of that, and I think Torvesaard was, too. With both of those characters, we got to see daedra who weren't the usual style, who had more to them than what we've usually seen with daedra. Of course, both had no active prince to serve, either. Once Torvesaard got Ithelia back, he reverted to standard daedra pretty fast.
Oh, I worry less about some daedra being a little different than most. It's more the other side that concerns me: Random mortal people being totally okay with daedra (unsummoned/uncontrolled humanoid daedra - not some random scamp which are said to be used as couriers by mages and aren't usually seen as that dangerous). A priest of Mara of all people! According to lore, the random person in Tamriel should be absolutely frightened in such a situation. And we know that the Temple usually fights daedra. So, if a priest of the Aedra would tell some random Tamrielian that we should love everyone, including the daedra, they'd probably get very, very suspicious (It actually made me, too, assume that there will be a turn of events and the Mara priest will turn out to be something different than he claimed to be - but no, nothing. This was really weird).@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭It was in the same article that announced the reveal, it just didn't have a time yet. They've since posted the time for it: Jan 12 at 11 a.m. EST. That's eight a.m. for me--not used to these things being so early!
That's late afternoon here. On Monday... Well, I'll see whether I'll get it arranged.
Oh, I see there's a new article on it now. I appreciate that it includes a complete list of topics they'll talk about. Looks like I wouldn't miss too much that I'd be very curious about (I mean, I'll see how the stable mounts have changed once it goes live, and many aspects like bag and stable updates are already obsolete for me; the only thing I wonder about right now is how that vampire quest starter looks like - is that something actually in game, or do they just put it into the store like the usual event quests? I guess the latter? Then it's not too exciting, although I appreciate a lot that it makes it much easier for people to just create a vampire character now). The thing I'd be mostly interested about is truly the story content. I'm sure we'll hear about that in another stream.
It's a bit of a pity they didn't announce a few upcoming streams at once. It would give a better overview about the scope of what's coming. Also makes planning easier. But I already criticized that they announce their streams so extremely late lately.
I figure I'll watch it just to get any details that aren't on the list. Don't know if that list is all-encompassing or there will be other items that get talked about. I find it interesting that they're removing things from the crown store (respec scrolls, vampire and werewolf bites, some mounts) and making them available in game, either for gold, or just in the UI. People have been understandably pretty critical of some of those things being in the store, when they were also already available in game.Anyway, those musings aside, I really don't know if a writer would want suggestions on main characters or topics. What keeps coming to my mind is the size of the audience for ESO, and how many differing opinions and suggestions there might be for any given story. You might say, "Fan favorites show up too much and all seem like the same character" and plenty of people might agree with you, but then others might say, "I love it when fan favorites show up." (Honestly, I'd prefer if they didn't focus at all on fan favorites--that they'd only bring characters back when and if it made sense for them to show up.)
I mean, realistically, we need to consider that this is partially art, but also partially a commercial product. Even mostly, if there's expectations coming from MS to have a certain revenue each year (I'm not even criticising that here; it's normal for a commercial enterprise). I'd think best in terms of revenue would probably be to appeal to as many people as possible? So the question is: Would a wider variety of characters, which would attract people who are bored by them being too same-y right now, make the people who love their few fan favorites leave?
That's the question, isn't it? What draws players in, and what pushes them away? It's for sure a complex thing to balance that commercial aspect with the artistic.I've seen plenty of people express their dislike of the idea of a Sheogorath story. In the survey, I even rated the Sheogorath story the lowest I could for excitement level and told them I don't like Sheogorath and don't want to see him. Of course, he's part of the world, so I guess there's no keeping him out of it at this point.
The thing I worry most about is that it will just be a huge conglomerate of silly jokes. Though I don't find Sheogorath that interesting either. Especially not ESO's iteration. Funny thing, I'd still like to explore the Shivering Isles some day. Not for Sheo, but for the people there - I do think that, in principle, interesting stories could be told there. Also, I really liked the design of the main city back in Oblivion. But I know that, since they said there won't be a zone, this clearly won't be what we'd get this year anyway. Sheogorath will show up somewhere else. And that immediately makes it even less interesting for me.
I've said previously I don't like the depiction of madness/insanity as just a few quirks. I know Sheogorath's unpredictability and instability is meant to be frightening (and would be, if confronted with an actual mad god), but in game he's always just come across to me as irritating. The near constant shouting, the cheese thing, everything just a little too whimsical.I wonder if those characters really were created to become fan favorites, or if that's just the type of character a lot of fans like. Eh, it's probably a combination of both. But I do see what you mean about a certain character template that shows up often enough.
Of course it's a design that by itself has mass appeal, but I do think it was chosen mostly with exactly that in mind. Is there another reason to write characters who are supposed to be literally "perfect" - smart, active, flirty, absolutely stunning in their field, etc? That's no coincidence.
I don't think they started out perfect, though. In base game they weren't. I'm thinking of Raz, Jakarn, and Naryu specifically now. Naryu was actually still an apprentice Morag Tong when we first met her, working with her mentor. Jakarn was captured and tossed into cave prison. And Raz was so desperate for help he picked the first person washed ashore who would talk to him. I think them becoming fan favorites morphed their characters a bit. Yes, they were all good at their jobs, but they weren't perfect and Raz at least wasn't flirty from the start. He wasn't even that active--spent a lot of time in the tavern in Khenarthi's Roost, waiting for us to report in.
I don't follow Mara, either.
Well, you know his future. Is he venerated as a great philosopher at any point from Daggerfall through Skyrim?Oh, well...if he gets calmed down regardless, what's the 'failure' option I thought existed?
Do you want to know then? I put an extra spoiler box inside another spoiler box in one of my posts here yesterday (or whenever it was) just about that. It's really not a failure, from my point of view, and barely makes any difference (and actually, visually I liked it even more than the tavern ending).
I did read it, but maybe I misunderstood, becausefrom that description, it sounded like he was the old man's prisoner on Eyevea, being studied and whatnot.But if it really makes no difference, that's disappointing.A Mannimarco diary, unedited, uncensored...that would be something!
It would probably contain a lot of complaining about his idiot cultists, some complaining about Vanny, even more complaining about Wormy's body feeling unsufficient,... He must have been horribly frustrated. Maybe it's better back in Coldharbor, if he's truly there (as our character needs to state, at the ending celebration I think it was)?
Though, if we think about that more, it also makes no sense. And leads to lots of questions, none of them truly to answer since we don't even know if he was cooperating with Bal now or not.
I feel sorry for Wormy, though. He really died for nothing.
Yeah, poor young Blood. I know we're not meant to sympathize with him, but I think he got a pretty raw deal all around.I see your point about the humanizing of certain daedra lately, but I do think they've kept from going too far with that. Ezhkel is a good example of that, and I think Torvesaard was, too. With both of those characters, we got to see daedra who weren't the usual style, who had more to them than what we've usually seen with daedra. Of course, both had no active prince to serve, either. Once Torvesaard got Ithelia back, he reverted to standard daedra pretty fast.
Oh, I worry less about some daedra being a little different than most. It's more the other side that concerns me: Random mortal people being totally okay with daedra (unsummoned/uncontrolled humanoid daedra - not some random scamp which are said to be used as couriers by mages and aren't usually seen as that dangerous). A priest of Mara of all people! According to lore, the random person in Tamriel should be absolutely frightened in such a situation. And we know that the Temple usually fights daedra. So, if a priest of the Aedra would tell some random Tamrielian that we should love everyone, including the daedra, they'd probably get very, very suspicious (It actually made me, too, assume that there will be a turn of events and the Mara priest will turn out to be something different than he claimed to be - but no, nothing. This was really weird).
It does sound odd, and like it was a set-up for something else. Like the Mara priest being something else, or maybe learning the hard way why most people don't embrace daedra (literally or figuratively). But if it's supposed to be a love celebration, I guess they wouldn't want to provide a harsh lesson in trusting/accepting the wrong creatures.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I figure I'll watch it just to get any details that aren't on the list. Don't know if that list is all-encompassing or there will be other items that get talked about.
I'm honestly not really sure how long the stream might even take, as there are so many aspects that, well, don't have much that needs to be visually shown. Of course you can show how inventory upgrade and respecs can be done from the UI now, but what shouldn't take more than a few seconds. Makes me wonder, by the way, whether they'll remove some of those npcs and the shrines from towns then? Would be a pity, as they don't only have a function right now, but also contribute to the city atmosphere.I find it interesting that they're removing things from the crown store (respec scrolls, vampire and werewolf bites, some mounts) and making them available in game, either for gold, or just in the UI. People have been understandably pretty critical of some of those things being in the store, when they were also already available in game.
Maybe they didn't sell well enough anyway (especially after over a decade), so they can remove them without much less in revenue and at the same time gaining favor from the playerbase for it? It's a commercial enterprise, I'm quite sure they make exact calculations.The near constant shouting, the cheese thing, everything just a little too whimsical.
And meme-y, especially the cheese thing. Especially since in the single player games, it was originally not a big aspect of his characterisation at all. There was a bit on him liking cheese, there was one quest related to that in Oblivion, but in ESO they now act like it was one central aspect of his personality.Naryu was actually still an apprentice Morag Tong when we first met her, working with her mentor.
But did she act like some insecure, imperfect apprentice?And Raz was so desperate for help he picked the first person washed ashore who would talk to him.
I mean, for strange reasons they always entrust random people they know nothing about with all kinds of tasks, including those where sensitive info is shared. Even if you've just left the tutorial, should storywise have no reputation on Tamriel at all, wear rags and don't even carry a sufficient weapon.Jakarn was captured and tossed into cave prison.
In a way that's another cliché itself: The mischievous scoundrel getting into trouble.Raz at least wasn't flirty from the start.
At least in the German translation, he clearly is. I think I need to check UESP later.I don't follow Mara, either.
Do you follow the awesome lessons this game gives us lately at least?Well, you know his future. Is he venerated as a great philosopher at any point from Daggerfall through Skyrim?
No, but the timeline hasn't ended yet.I did read it, but maybe I misunderstood, because
The only real difference is that......not the "power of friendship" (which is also quite a cliché) gets him back to normal in the temple, but Vanny arrives and casts some spell. Then you meet again at the harbor, and yes, he's brought to Eyevea, but it's not a negative situation and he's not a prisoner. It's worded like he's supposed to be safe there and people will care for him and help with his Meridia problem. Of course he's not entirely happy not to be able to travel freely whereever he likes for some time now, but at least he has Skordo with him and has a chance on being "cured". So it's more like being in hospital, I guess, which is not the happiest thing, but a chance for curing some horrible what ever he's suffering from is certainly a positive aspect. And it's not the worst location and accommodation either. And he has a friend with him all the time. It didn't look like a bad ending to me at all. And honestly, it's the one that makes more sense than the other ones where he just roams freely with the danger of snapping again at any time.Yeah, poor young Blood. I know we're not meant to sympathize with him, but I think he got a pretty raw deal all around.
And all that for a completely redundant story that added nothing at all to Worm Cult and Mannimarco lore.It does sound odd, and like it was a set-up for something else. Like the Mara priest being something else, or maybe learning the hard way why most people don't embrace daedra (literally or figuratively). But if it's supposed to be a love celebration, I guess they wouldn't want to provide a harsh lesson in trusting/accepting the wrong creatures.
Nah, it's deliberate. It entirely comes across as one of those "deep" real world lessons - that don't fit Tamriel lore at all. There's also a bit about how love and lust are both normal and healthy parts of the human existence, and are equally important (which can also be debated; I prefer people being able to decide for themselves which priorities they have in their life), so for the love aspect, there's Mara, and for the other half, there was Sanguine... Completely missing that there is an Aedra for that: Dibella. And completely missing that Sanguine is not about physical aspects of love vs the mental aspects Mara stands for, but about excess (and many other questionable things like addiction, complete loss of ethics, selfishly following desires without caring for others, etc), which is unhealthy in itself.
Edited by Syldras on January 10, 2026 11:17AM@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I figure I'll watch it just to get any details that aren't on the list. Don't know if that list is all-encompassing or there will be other items that get talked about.
I'm honestly not really sure how long the stream might even take, as there are so many aspects that, well, don't have much that needs to be visually shown. Of course you can show how inventory upgrade and respecs can be done from the UI now, but what shouldn't take more than a few seconds. Makes me wonder, by the way, whether they'll remove some of those npcs and the shrines from towns then? Would be a pity, as they don't only have a function right now, but also contribute to the city atmosphere.
They might become a somewhat redundant feature, but I hope they leave them in all the same. Convenience is fine, but the atmosphere of the towns shouldn't suffer for it. Well, anymore than they already do.I find it interesting that they're removing things from the crown store (respec scrolls, vampire and werewolf bites, some mounts) and making them available in game, either for gold, or just in the UI. People have been understandably pretty critical of some of those things being in the store, when they were also already available in game.
Maybe they didn't sell well enough anyway (especially after over a decade), so they can remove them without much less in revenue and at the same time gaining favor from the playerbase for it? It's a commercial enterprise, I'm quite sure they make exact calculations.
Oh, I'm sure they do, too, which is why I find it interesting to see these decisions. I'm really curious which of the mounts have been moved from the crown store to stable masters, too.
She wasn't calling the shots. She was confident enough, but didn't come across as knowing everything--in fact, they both seemed a little bit worried they wouldn't be able to complete their mission. Even in Vvardenfell, she's clearly not perfect--the situation with Veya gets way out of hand and Naryu isn't able to contain it. But it's true she never bumbled about like an idiot or, say, a Rigurt.And Raz was so desperate for help he picked the first person washed ashore who would talk to him.
I mean, for strange reasons they always entrust random people they know nothing about with all kinds of tasks, including those where sensitive info is shared. Even if you've just left the tutorial, should storywise have no reputation on Tamriel at all, wear rags and don't even carry a sufficient weapon.
Ha, I think those reasons can be summed up with: the player character needs quests to do!
But he couldn't get himself out of it, and if we hadn't helped him he would still be there.
He's effusive, for sure, but to me that comes across as him using his charm to get the player character to work for him. I never got flirty vibes from him until ZOS literally made it possible to flirt with him. He was always just my colleague--one with questionable morals at times.
I didn't need those lessons; those were already things I was aware of. *sigh* Sometimes it felt like ZOS thought I was five years old and completely unaware of the world and how to move about in it.
Well, if Elder Scrolls 6 ever releases, maybe there will be something in there about him. Or maybe he'll still somehow be around: a skeleton man again, looking for that perfect body for godhood.I did read it, but maybe I misunderstood, because
The only real difference is that......not the "power of friendship" (which is also quite a cliché) gets him back to normal in the temple, but Vanny arrives and casts some spell. Then you meet again at the harbor, and yes, he's brought to Eyevea, but it's not a negative situation and he's not a prisoner. It's worded like he's supposed to be safe there and people will care for him and help with his Meridia problem. Of course he's not entirely happy not to be able to travel freely whereever he likes for some time now, but at least he has Skordo with him and has a chance on being "cured". So it's more like being in hospital, I guess, which is not the happiest thing, but a chance for curing some horrible what ever he's suffering from is certainly a positive aspect. And it's not the worst location and accommodation either. And he has a friend with him all the time. It didn't look like a bad ending to me at all. And honestly, it's the one that makes more sense than the other ones where he just roams freely with the danger of snapping again at any time.
To me, it wasn't so muchthe 'power of friendship' as reminding him of himself--keeping the filthy Meridia influence at bay. (Which, I'm aware, is also a trope.) However it came across, though, it did seem a little too easy, and letting him just roam around could be a potentially good story, especially if he does lose control again and we have to reckon with our choice to handle it ourselves instead of calling in The Great Mage. I think when I take my character through who hasn't done much with Darien, I'll try for the ending where he's taken away--hopefully it'll work out like that, since that character only knows him from Coldharbour.It does sound odd, and like it was a set-up for something else. Like the Mara priest being something else, or maybe learning the hard way why most people don't embrace daedra (literally or figuratively). But if it's supposed to be a love celebration, I guess they wouldn't want to provide a harsh lesson in trusting/accepting the wrong creatures.
Nah, it's deliberate. It entirely comes across as one of those "deep" real world lessons - that don't fit Tamriel lore at all. There's also a bit about how love and lust are both normal and healthy parts of the human existence, and are equally important (which can also be debated; I prefer people being able to decide for themselves which priorities they have in their life), so for the love aspect, there's Mara, and for the other half, there was Sanguine... Completely missing that there is an Aedra for that: Dibella. And completely missing that Sanguine is not about physical aspects of love vs the mental aspects Mara stands for, but about excess (and many other questionable things like addiction, complete loss of ethics, selfishly following desires without caring for others, etc), which is unhealthy in itself.
I did wonder why Dibella acolytes weren't crashing the Mara party. I could see why Sanguine daedra might show up, to try to twist the Mara celebration to one of excess, but it really doesn't make sense that Mara would be like, "No, it's fine they're here. Just love them." You know, Sanguine was pretty tame in Skyrim, too, from what I recall. Sure, you go on a drunken spree with him and cause trouble everywhere, but then you clean it all up so everyone's ok, and you meet with Sanguine and it's really kind of nothing. Well, it was a long time ago that I did that quest, so maybe there were more Sanguine elements to it, but it really didn't leave much of an impression.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They might become a somewhat redundant feature, but I hope they leave them in all the same. Convenience is fine, but the atmosphere of the towns shouldn't suffer for it. Well, anymore than they already do
After missing dialogue for most Solstice town npcs, I wonder what will go missing next, if there's a new zone release some day.Oh, I'm sure they do, too, which is why I find it interesting to see these decisions. I'm really curious which of the mounts have been moved from the crown store to stable masters, too.
Probably the standard version of every (older) mount type? A cat, a camel, a bear, a wolf, a guar,...? Funny thing, I usually prefer the standard versions over the recolors. You could sell a standard guar to me, but not one made of molten neon-colored pudding shooting flames from its... backside.Ha, I think those reasons can be summed up with: the player character needs quests to do!
I'd actually enjoyed something like a reputation system, I think. I mean, now it doesn't make much sense anymore anyway, after my main has finished so many zones, but if the game had started with that a decade ago, it could have been interesting.But he couldn't get himself out of it, and if we hadn't helped him he would still be there.
Without the player character needing someone to rescue, he wouldn't have ended up there in the first placeHe's effusive, for sure, but to me that comes across as him using his charm to get the player character to work for him. I never got flirty vibes from him until ZOS literally made it possible to flirt with him. He was always just my colleague--one with questionable morals at times.
Right after meeting him:
"Razum-dar is here on a mission of some … delicacy. You are just what the Baandari ordered. Between your hands and Raz's good looks, we are certain to see this through."
When getting to Auridon:
"Astanya's the lovely watch captain of the Vulkhel Guard Watch."
"Too bad Raz is so handsome, yes? He would get noticed."
And that's only the beginning, he makes similar comments about how handsome he was and how pretty all kinds of women were all the time. Now, it's up for interpretation, of course, whether praising random women's looks is meant to be chivalrous... All I can say is that at least in the German translation it felt rather sleazy to me. As if he's gawking at women and commenting on them all the time (he rarely directly compliments them, he talks about them like that). You're right though that he also had other topics to talk about in the base game stories and his later appearances became more clichéd.I didn't need those lessons; those were already things I was aware of. *sigh* Sometimes it felt like ZOS thought I was five years old and completely unaware of the world and how to move about in it.
I'm even more concerned about people who really think these are awesome lessons and they learnt something new from them.Well, if Elder Scrolls 6 ever releases, maybe there will be something in there about him. Or maybe he'll still somehow be around: a skeleton man again, looking for that perfect body for godhood.
He actually achieved godhood. Or a part of him, at least. Or at least it's believed that's what happened when a new moon appeared that eclipses the Planet Arkay once a week or so. Though it never showed up again in Skyrim, so who knows what it actually was.the 'power of friendship'
It's officially framed as that, though. If you talk to Vanny, he literally says: "His inner turmoil is suppressed for now, thanks to you. Darien's attachments and his feelings for his friends give him strength."I did wonder why Dibella acolytes weren't crashing the Mara party. I could see why Sanguine daedra might show up, to try to twist the Mara celebration to one of excess, but it really doesn't make sense that Mara would be like, "No, it's fine they're here. Just love them." You know, Sanguine was pretty tame in Skyrim, too, from what I recall. Sure, you go on a drunken spree with him and cause trouble everywhere, but then you clean it all up so everyone's ok, and you meet with Sanguine and it's really kind of nothing. Well, it was a long time ago that I did that quest, so maybe there were more Sanguine elements to it, but it really didn't leave much of an impression.
It does make sense that it's about Sanguine and not Dibella, as Heart's Day is also Sanguine Summoning Day (which is actually the older tradition, which parallels certain historical things that happened in the real world, but I doubt we can discuss that here). The only thing I mind is really the Mara priest's reaction. If they had wanted to include both Mara and Sanguine in that event somehow, they could have given the player character choices which whom to side - without having the Mara priest behave that lorebreakingly.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭They might become a somewhat redundant feature, but I hope they leave them in all the same. Convenience is fine, but the atmosphere of the towns shouldn't suffer for it. Well, anymore than they already do
After missing dialogue for most Solstice town npcs, I wonder what will go missing next, if there's a new zone release some day.
My hope is still that this new seasons format will allow them to take their time with any new zones and stories that they make, and that said zones and stories will be high quality. Someone once called me a 'foolish optimist,' so I guess that's what's at play here, too.Oh, I'm sure they do, too, which is why I find it interesting to see these decisions. I'm really curious which of the mounts have been moved from the crown store to stable masters, too.
Probably the standard version of every (older) mount type? A cat, a camel, a bear, a wolf, a guar,...? Funny thing, I usually prefer the standard versions over the recolors. You could sell a standard guar to me, but not one made of molten neon-colored pudding shooting flames from its... backside.
You know, when I saw the new Vvardvark, the one made of lava or molten whatever, I thought: that probably wouldn't appeal to Syldras, even though he loves Vvardvarks. I really wish they would make some more subdued mounts again, ones that look like actual animals that could exist in the world. Anyway, the mounts probably will be the older, standard looking ones; I wonder if there will be any I don't have. Also, I think it would be interesting if they did put one of those radiant apex glowing mounts in the stables for gold--I've seen people say the game needs a huge gold sink, so why not slap one of those mounts in for ten million gold (or whatever--I have no idea how much gold people have amassed; for all I know, ten million is chump change to the rich players).Ha, I think those reasons can be summed up with: the player character needs quests to do!
I'd actually enjoyed something like a reputation system, I think. I mean, now it doesn't make much sense anymore anyway, after my main has finished so many zones, but if the game had started with that a decade ago, it could have been interesting.
I don't know--most MMOs I've played, the reputation system is nothing but a tedious grind. I was actually glad there was nothing like that in ESO when I started. Of course it depends on how it's implemented, because it doesn't have to be nothing more than a grind, but I've not seen it done any other way in MMOs.
Haha, very true!He's effusive, for sure, but to me that comes across as him using his charm to get the player character to work for him. I never got flirty vibes from him until ZOS literally made it possible to flirt with him. He was always just my colleague--one with questionable morals at times.
Right after meeting him:
"Razum-dar is here on a mission of some … delicacy. You are just what the Baandari ordered. Between your hands and Raz's good looks, we are certain to see this through."
When getting to Auridon:
"Astanya's the lovely watch captain of the Vulkhel Guard Watch."
"Too bad Raz is so handsome, yes? He would get noticed."
And that's only the beginning, he makes similar comments about how handsome he was and how pretty all kinds of women were all the time. Now, it's up for interpretation, of course, whether praising random women's looks is meant to be chivalrous... All I can say is that at least in the German translation it felt rather sleazy to me. As if he's gawking at women and commenting on them all the time (he rarely directly compliments them, he talks about them like that). You're right though that he also had other topics to talk about in the base game stories and his later appearances became more clichéd.
That never came across as flirting to me. Arrogance, sure, but the way the voice actor said it, it was kind of like a teasing arrogance. To be clear, I never thought Raz was perfect; I was aware of his character flaws. But he has a certain charm to him and he's good at his job (though better at it when I'm around to do all the real work) and I think he fits with the world of Tamriel. Or at least he did in the beginning.Well, if Elder Scrolls 6 ever releases, maybe there will be something in there about him. Or maybe he'll still somehow be around: a skeleton man again, looking for that perfect body for godhood.
He actually achieved godhood. Or a part of him, at least. Or at least it's believed that's what happened when a new moon appeared that eclipses the Planet Arkay once a week or so. Though it never showed up again in Skyrim, so who knows what it actually was.
A mass hallucination?
Ok, but in the actual dialogue with Darien in the moment, it seemed more like reminding himself of who he was, and less like, "Hey, we're buddies; stick around for me." So even though they wrote and framed it as 'the power of friendship' it didn't come across that way to me--that's all I was saying.I did wonder why Dibella acolytes weren't crashing the Mara party. I could see why Sanguine daedra might show up, to try to twist the Mara celebration to one of excess, but it really doesn't make sense that Mara would be like, "No, it's fine they're here. Just love them." You know, Sanguine was pretty tame in Skyrim, too, from what I recall. Sure, you go on a drunken spree with him and cause trouble everywhere, but then you clean it all up so everyone's ok, and you meet with Sanguine and it's really kind of nothing. Well, it was a long time ago that I did that quest, so maybe there were more Sanguine elements to it, but it really didn't leave much of an impression.
It does make sense that it's about Sanguine and not Dibella, as Heart's Day is also Sanguine Summoning Day (which is actually the older tradition, which parallels certain historical things that happened in the real world, but I doubt we can discuss that here). The only thing I mind is really the Mara priest's reaction. If they had wanted to include both Mara and Sanguine in that event somehow, they could have given the player character choices which whom to side - without having the Mara priest behave that lorebreakingly.
Yeah, newer religions trampling over older ones they want to replace/dominate is par for the course. I don't keep up with ESO's religious days at all--so I wasn't aware Heart's Day and Sanguine Summoning Day were the same day.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My hope is still that this new seasons format will allow them to take their time with any new zones and stories that they make, and that said zones and stories will be high quality. Someone once called me a 'foolish optimist,' so I guess that's what's at play here, too.
Well, I hope you're correct, though. And I would have wished the devs to be clearer about this in the stream instead of giving us another of these "There might be awesome content coming, but we can't say anything yet" messages. I'm a big fan of clear communication, so if this year's story content is sparse because they want to work on it for longer and then release it in a perfect state in Q1 2027, then I'd prefer to hear exactly that.You know, when I saw the new Vvardvark, the one made of lava or molten whatever, I thought: that probably wouldn't appeal to Syldras, even though he loves Vvardvarks. I really wish they would make some more subdued mounts again, ones that look like actual animals that could exist in the world.
I'm not even sure if it's actually some vvardvark that fell victim of a horrible spell (then I'd feel really sorry for it) or just an atronach posing as a vvardvark? Unfortunately I don't even know how it's called, so I can't search for it on UESP to read the flavor text.Anyway, the mounts probably will be the older, standard looking ones; I wonder if there will be any I don't have. Also, I think it would be interesting if they did put one of those radiant apex glowing mounts in the stables for gold--I've seen people say the game needs a huge gold sink, so why not slap one of those mounts in for ten million gold (or whatever--I have no idea how much gold people have amassed; for all I know, ten million is chump change to the rich players).
Tomorrow we'll know more! As for people wishing for a gold sink, I'd recommend housing. Without housing, I'd probably swim in gold, but buying furnishing mats and those special achievement zone furnishings can be quite expensive over time.I don't know--most MMOs I've played, the reputation system is nothing but a tedious grind. I was actually glad there was nothing like that in ESO when I started. Of course it depends on how it's implemented, because it doesn't have to be nothing more than a grind, but I've not seen it done any other way in MMOs.
I wouldn't think of a grind. More like that our choices and finished quests might influence our reputation with different factions (if it makes sense that they know of what we've done); perhaps also if a player character has been caught murdering or stealing regularly.That never came across as flirting to me. Arrogance, sure, but the way the voice actor said it, it was kind of like a teasing arrogance. To be clear, I never thought Raz was perfect; I was aware of his character flaws. But he has a certain charm to him and he's good at his job (though better at it when I'm around to do all the real work) and I think he fits with the world of Tamriel. Or at least he did in the beginning.
I guess a lot of it really comes down to how things are worded, including how the translation looks like, and also voice acting. I think they do try for different localizations to leave about the same impression, but there are clearly subtle differences at times.A mass hallucination?
Honestly, I'm not sure how they explained that the moon showing up for a while, well, didn't show up anymore in the next game - if there was ever any explanation. I think there's never any word on it in game, at least.Ok, but in the actual dialogue with Darien in the moment, it seemed more like reminding himself of who he was, and less like, "Hey, we're buddies; stick around for me." So even though they wrote and framed it as 'the power of friendship' it didn't come across that way to me--that's all I was saying.
Yes, I had the same impression, but the Vanny dialogue looks like a hint to me that this was what they had in mind - might it have been delivered successfully or notI don't keep up with ESO's religious days at all--so I wasn't aware Heart's Day and Sanguine Summoning Day were the same day.
In TES2 Daggerfall, the daedra summoning days were still important, since indeed you could only use the shrines on the correct days.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭My hope is still that this new seasons format will allow them to take their time with any new zones and stories that they make, and that said zones and stories will be high quality. Someone once called me a 'foolish optimist,' so I guess that's what's at play here, too.
Well, I hope you're correct, though. And I would have wished the devs to be clearer about this in the stream instead of giving us another of these "There might be awesome content coming, but we can't say anything yet" messages. I'm a big fan of clear communication, so if this year's story content is sparse because they want to work on it for longer and then release it in a perfect state in Q1 2027, then I'd prefer to hear exactly that.
Yes, they could have been a little more clear in the stream with regards to story content. I hope we get more information about it sooner rather than later.You know, when I saw the new Vvardvark, the one made of lava or molten whatever, I thought: that probably wouldn't appeal to Syldras, even though he loves Vvardvarks. I really wish they would make some more subdued mounts again, ones that look like actual animals that could exist in the world.
I'm not even sure if it's actually some vvardvark that fell victim of a horrible spell (then I'd feel really sorry for it) or just an atronach posing as a vvardvark? Unfortunately I don't even know how it's called, so I can't search for it on UESP to read the flavor text.
I didn't pay much attention to it beyond noticing it was all fiery.
Ok, I just went back and looked at the showcase article and this is what is says under the picture of it: "Fiery foyadas shape Morrowind's beasts in very special ways! Mount up on the Redoran Foyada Vvardvark and adore your ardent Magmaflow Vvardvark, both included in this conflagration of a bundle!"Anyway, the mounts probably will be the older, standard looking ones; I wonder if there will be any I don't have. Also, I think it would be interesting if they did put one of those radiant apex glowing mounts in the stables for gold--I've seen people say the game needs a huge gold sink, so why not slap one of those mounts in for ten million gold (or whatever--I have no idea how much gold people have amassed; for all I know, ten million is chump change to the rich players).
Tomorrow we'll know more! As for people wishing for a gold sink, I'd recommend housing. Without housing, I'd probably swim in gold, but buying furnishing mats and those special achievement zone furnishings can be quite expensive over time.
I have enough gold for my needs and then some, but it's nothing compared to what players who are active traders have. I dabble in housing, but other than some items from the luxury furnisher haven't spent that much money on it. I create a lot of my own furniture and so far I haven't run out of materials.I don't know--most MMOs I've played, the reputation system is nothing but a tedious grind. I was actually glad there was nothing like that in ESO when I started. Of course it depends on how it's implemented, because it doesn't have to be nothing more than a grind, but I've not seen it done any other way in MMOs.
I wouldn't think of a grind. More like that our choices and finished quests might influence our reputation with different factions (if it makes sense that they know of what we've done); perhaps also if a player character has been caught murdering or stealing regularly.
Yeah, I know what you mean--it could be interesting if done that way--but I think that's one of the systems in the single player games that doesn't translate well to the MMO space, at least not with how reputations have traditionally been done in MMOs. Even the justice system in ESO is a tamer version of what they had in the single player games.That never came across as flirting to me. Arrogance, sure, but the way the voice actor said it, it was kind of like a teasing arrogance. To be clear, I never thought Raz was perfect; I was aware of his character flaws. But he has a certain charm to him and he's good at his job (though better at it when I'm around to do all the real work) and I think he fits with the world of Tamriel. Or at least he did in the beginning.
I guess a lot of it really comes down to how things are worded, including how the translation looks like, and also voice acting. I think they do try for different localizations to leave about the same impression, but there are clearly subtle differences at times.
All that, and each person's interpretation of it.
It doesn't seem like, outside of the festivals, the summoning days or aedric holidays are much utilized in game.
So I took a character through the Crossing the Wall quest tonight. This is the character who has done the AD storyline and the base game main quest (Harborage through Coldharbour), the Mages Guild, and nothing else. So he doesn't have the connections with many of these recurring npcs that my main had. He also did not participate in the Writhing Wall event or the Writing Fortress. Basically, I wanted to see what the "bridge quest" between western and eastern Solstice would look like on someone coming across it after the event and the waiting was over and done with. Overall, I would say that things go more smoothly and make more sense this way. There's still a few points that make me think, "Wait, what?" in regards to the narrative, but overall I found the experience much better than the stop-and-start version my main had, waiting for the event to progress and the fortress to be breached.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, they could have been a little more clear in the stream with regards to story content. I hope we get more information about it sooner rather than later.
I've just watched today's stream. I know it was just meant to be about the quality of life aspects, so - while I appreciate them - it wasn't super interesting for me, as expected (I hope they'll tell us more about things like the Night Market, new stories and events in another stream soon - what a pity they didn't give a date for the next stream already, since it's clear there are more things to be discussed, or did I miss it again?).
But since we talked about the mounts that will show up at stables now: I was surprised that it isn't just an addition to the inventory list of all stables, but that every extra mount (to the 3 standard horses every stable has) will only be found in one specific stable. It does make sense (I know I, and many other players, had already suggested selling mounts that lore-wise fit to the zone the stable is in years ago), and I appreciate that the mounts are also physically visible at the location where they can be bought, and that they also seem to have added lore books next to them. I wonder whether there'll be any list in game that gives us hints where to find the new mounts? I mean, new players will just find them while progressing through the zones, I guess, but it was nice if there was a way beyond just travelling from zone to zone and search all stables (I did wonder how exactly they're sorted; it's 12 mounts but there are 20 base game zones, plus Craglorn, plus Vvardenfell, and what else will become part of the base game soon). I mean, sure, within a few days, the list will probably show up online anyway, but I generally prefer info to be given directly in game instead of having to search for things online.I didn't pay much attention to it beyond noticing it was all fiery.
Ok, I just went back and looked at the showcase article and this is what is says under the picture of it: "Fiery foyadas shape Morrowind's beasts in very special ways! Mount up on the Redoran Foyada Vvardvark and adore your ardent Magmaflow Vvardvark, both included in this conflagration of a bundle!"
That's a little strange. First, the association with Redoran, but also I don't think there was ever anything in lore about the foyadas having any magical properties. Also, foyadas are only filled with lava during an eruption. The term specifically refers to the stony ravines left in the landscape after an outbreak. As for an animal turning into a lava creature just by grazing in a stony canyon...I have enough gold for my needs and then some, but it's nothing compared to what players who are active traders have. I dabble in housing, but other than some items from the luxury furnisher haven't spent that much money on it. I create a lot of my own furniture and so far I haven't run out of materials.
I guess it depends on how much one furnishes at once. With those really big houses, I can remember running out of materials at least once during each project. The first one I furnished was the Hall of the Lunar Champion. I spent about 2 million gold on the whole thing, mostly on achievement furnishings. I couldn't afford it without being in a trading guild (though I don't try to earn as much as possible, I don't stress myself with that; but it's a nice extra income and I also like to spread furnishing plans I already have for a reasonable price)Yeah, I know what you mean--it could be interesting if done that way--but I think that's one of the systems in the single player games that doesn't translate well to the MMO space, at least not with how reputations have traditionally been done in MMOs. Even the justice system in ESO is a tamer version of what they had in the single player games.
I think I read once that the justice system had been a little different here originally, but they did adjust it after a while? I can't remember details anymore though.It doesn't seem like, outside of the festivals, the summoning days or aedric holidays are much utilized in game.
I wish they'd make more of it. No need for an event all the time (that would be too much and might feel like just another chore then), but adding decorations to some zones or random encounters might be nice, just for atmosphere.So I took a character through the Crossing the Wall quest tonight. This is the character who has done the AD storyline and the base game main quest (Harborage through Coldharbour), the Mages Guild, and nothing else. So he doesn't have the connections with many of these recurring npcs that my main had. He also did not participate in the Writhing Wall event or the Writing Fortress. Basically, I wanted to see what the "bridge quest" between western and eastern Solstice would look like on someone coming across it after the event and the waiting was over and done with. Overall, I would say that things go more smoothly and make more sense this way. There's still a few points that make me think, "Wait, what?" in regards to the narrative, but overall I found the experience much better than the stop-and-start version my main had, waiting for the event to progress and the fortress to be breached.
So is there a new quest or changed dialogue? I thought they might just remove everything that was part of the event and only leave that one quest where you travel to those 2 delves with Darien to destroy the Wall anchors.
I've played that tutorial for returning players today, by the way. I'll write about it later.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Yes, they could have been a little more clear in the stream with regards to story content. I hope we get more information about it sooner rather than later.
I've just watched today's stream. I know it was just meant to be about the quality of life aspects, so - while I appreciate them - it wasn't super interesting for me, as expected (I hope they'll tell us more about things like the Night Market, new stories and events in another stream soon - what a pity they didn't give a date for the next stream already, since it's clear there are more things to be discussed, or did I miss it again?).
You didn't miss it. They said they have more streams planned soon, but no dates were mentioned.But since we talked about the mounts that will show up at stables now: I was surprised that it isn't just an addition to the inventory list of all stables, but that every extra mount (to the 3 standard horses every stable has) will only be found in one specific stable. It does make sense (I know I, and many other players, had already suggested selling mounts that lore-wise fit to the zone the stable is in years ago), and I appreciate that the mounts are also physically visible at the location where they can be bought, and that they also seem to have added lore books next to them. I wonder whether there'll be any list in game that gives us hints where to find the new mounts? I mean, new players will just find them while progressing through the zones, I guess, but it was nice if there was a way beyond just travelling from zone to zone and search all stables (I did wonder how exactly they're sorted; it's 12 mounts but there are 20 base game zones, plus Craglorn, plus Vvardenfell, and what else will become part of the base game soon). I mean, sure, within a few days, the list will probably show up online anyway, but I generally prefer info to be given directly in game instead of having to search for things online.
I really like that the mounts are at stablemasters that fit them, instead of all just being everywhere. Having them visible is a nice bonus, too. I assumed the new lorebooks on the mounts would give a basic idea of where they could be found. True, it's not one master list, but it could point us in the appropriate directions. For myself, I planned on approaching it by biome rather than zone (since they specifically used the word biome when talking about the mounts). So I'll go to Davon's Watch to see if they have a mount for the Stonefalls and Deshaan type biome, Shadowfen for the marsh biome, and Eastmarch for the tundra biome of that zone and the Rift. Auridon for the island/sea biome. Grahtwood for the Valenwood style, and so forth. I would think Wrothgar might have its own new mount, and that is being added to base game in Season 0, isn't it? Anyway, I don't mind the hunt for the mounts--I think it'll be fun, and then there are the new books to read, too.I didn't pay much attention to it beyond noticing it was all fiery.
Ok, I just went back and looked at the showcase article and this is what is says under the picture of it: "Fiery foyadas shape Morrowind's beasts in very special ways! Mount up on the Redoran Foyada Vvardvark and adore your ardent Magmaflow Vvardvark, both included in this conflagration of a bundle!"
That's a little strange. First, the association with Redoran, but also I don't think there was ever anything in lore about the foyadas having any magical properties. Also, foyadas are only filled with lava during an eruption. The term specifically refers to the stony ravines left in the landscape after an outbreak. As for an animal turning into a lava creature just by grazing in a stony canyon...
Maybe it's new lore they're adding, or the flavor text on the mount/pet will say more specifically how it works. Or maybe a sneaky Telvanni had a hand in it after all!I have enough gold for my needs and then some, but it's nothing compared to what players who are active traders have. I dabble in housing, but other than some items from the luxury furnisher haven't spent that much money on it. I create a lot of my own furniture and so far I haven't run out of materials.
I guess it depends on how much one furnishes at once. With those really big houses, I can remember running out of materials at least once during each project. The first one I furnished was the Hall of the Lunar Champion. I spent about 2 million gold on the whole thing, mostly on achievement furnishings. I couldn't afford it without being in a trading guild (though I don't try to earn as much as possible, I don't stress myself with that; but it's a nice extra income and I also like to spread furnishing plans I already have for a reasonable price)
I'd probably run through more gold if I could ever remember to visit the achievement vendors after I have the achievements. I need to make a note for myself to go back and look at the items once I've finished a zone.Yeah, I know what you mean--it could be interesting if done that way--but I think that's one of the systems in the single player games that doesn't translate well to the MMO space, at least not with how reputations have traditionally been done in MMOs. Even the justice system in ESO is a tamer version of what they had in the single player games.
I think I read once that the justice system had been a little different here originally, but they did adjust it after a while? I can't remember details anymore though.
I don't know; I came into the game in 2017, so I didn't experience the original version of it.It doesn't seem like, outside of the festivals, the summoning days or aedric holidays are much utilized in game.
I wish they'd make more of it. No need for an event all the time (that would be too much and might feel like just another chore then), but adding decorations to some zones or random encounters might be nice, just for atmosphere.
More random encounters would be nice, especially in older zones.So I took a character through the Crossing the Wall quest tonight. This is the character who has done the AD storyline and the base game main quest (Harborage through Coldharbour), the Mages Guild, and nothing else. So he doesn't have the connections with many of these recurring npcs that my main had. He also did not participate in the Writhing Wall event or the Writing Fortress. Basically, I wanted to see what the "bridge quest" between western and eastern Solstice would look like on someone coming across it after the event and the waiting was over and done with. Overall, I would say that things go more smoothly and make more sense this way. There's still a few points that make me think, "Wait, what?" in regards to the narrative, but overall I found the experience much better than the stop-and-start version my main had, waiting for the event to progress and the fortress to be breached.
So is there a new quest or changed dialogue? I thought they might just remove everything that was part of the event and only leave that one quest where you travel to those 2 delves with Darien to destroy the Wall anchors.
It's the same basic quest, but there's some different dialogue. Prince Azah talks about the Writhing Fortress in the past tense and explains what it was like in there--not in detail, just a general way. Though my character, who did not do the event or the fortress, had the option to say to him: "I already helped damage the Writhing Wall by attacking the Writhing Fortress." I think that must be a bug, because there's another dialogue option I could choose, where I asked: "How can the light of Meridia bring down the Writhing Wall?" Both of those dialogue choices lead to the same basic explanation of what happened in the Fortress--just phrased differently to account for the player either having been there or not. It seemed to me that both should not be available at the same time, however.
Also, the part that was bugged when I did it on my main--the optional 'talk to Mirmal' part--worked, and I think it might have been bugged before because Mirmal also references the Writhing Fortress, and when this quest first came out, the third phase of the event hadn't yet been unlocked. It was nice to finally be able to experience what Mirmal had to say.
It's weird that the story npcs are still hanging out in their "end of part one" group in the palace when we go to the study to confer with and fetch Darien. Once Darien follows you out of the study, you can walk up to Darien in the throne room and have double Darien, which really shouldn't be happening. Plus, those versions of the npcs are stuck in time of having just left the Colored Rooms and experienced Gabrielle's death--their dialogue is the same as if just finishing part one.
You do still travel to the two points to destroy the anchors, and then into the revealed fissure to confront Mannimarco, and you still get the satisfaction of firing the Meridian Lens at the wall. However, this time when Mannimarco says the Wall served its purpose and it doesn't matter if it comes down now, it makes more sense now that there's not another couple weeks of trying to bring down the Wall.
Of course, there are still some things I don't quite understand and which we've talked about before. In the scene, Mannimarco is wearing the Wormblood mask. Why? He also says, "You delivered me a light of Meridia just when I needed it most," which to me says he already has a plan for using it--like it was the one thing he was missing--but then we find out later he couldn't use it and only studied a way to use it. Was this because it wasn't normal Meridia light but mixed up with Darien? And I find it funny that when we first encounter him in the fissure, his goal is, "We must mend the Wall!" But then we put a stop to that, he steals Darien's light, and his attitude is, "The Wall? Oh, that old thing--don't even care about that anymore."
Oh, and Darien also doesn't take up a slumped pose up by the Meridian lens now after we come back from the Mannimarco confrontation--before he kind of moped there and said he was going to try to help out at the camps as much as he could--but since all that's over now, he just shows up and seems thrilled when we fire the lens.I've played that tutorial for returning players today, by the way. I'll write about it later.
Oh, I forgot you had that on the back burner! Well, I'm interested to read your impression of it. That's another place where Vanny gets called 'old man'. If npcs keep that up, pretty soon 'old man' actually will be synonymous with Vanus Galerion.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You didn't miss it. They said they have more streams planned soon, but no dates were mentioned.
What a pity! But I've been browsing the PTS forum a bit at least (don't worry - no spoilers!) and I've noticed that devs are a little more active right now. Patch notes are also interesting. Didn't we talk about that new trade bar market some days ago? While it wasn't intended to be more than a menu in the UI (within the crown store, which doesn't surprise me), there was so much disappointed posts from players who had expected an actual location, that they now seem to consider to add a real location with a later update. I hope it will be at least as nicely designed as the Belkarth festival location.I assumed the new lorebooks on the mounts would give a basic idea of where they could be found.
Good question. I only saw a title for a short moment in that stream and it was something like "Mounts: Kagouti and Guar", I think? I expected it to be creature lore, most of all.For myself, I planned on approaching it by biome rather than zone (since they specifically used the word biome when talking about the mounts). So I'll go to Davon's Watch to see if they have a mount for the Stonefalls and Deshaan type biome, Shadowfen for the marsh biome, and Eastmarch for the tundra biome of that zone and the Rift. Auridon for the island/sea biome. Grahtwood for the Valenwood style, and so forth.
Auridon got this one, from what I've seen in the stream:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ja'zennji_Siir_Fox
Does it fit? I don't know.I would think Wrothgar might have its own new mount, and that is being added to base game in Season 0, isn't it? Anyway, I don't mind the hunt for the mounts--I think it'll be fun, and then there are the new books to read, too.
Travelling around buying different mounts will surely be fun - if one knows which stables even have one of the new mounts. I think travelling to some only to realize there's nothing would be a bit less fun. As for what the new mount will be: If it's indeed Wrothgar-related, it would be surprising if it's not an echatere.Maybe it's new lore they're adding, or the flavor text on the mount/pet will say more specifically how it works. Or maybe a sneaky Telvanni had a hand in it after all!
I felt the need to google it, of course:
""It's a warm ride, that's for sure. Don't worry though, the skin isn't actually molten, just very, very hot. The tongue though. Watch out for the tongue."—Mondran Redoran, Ebonheart"
It's this guy - some random town commoner without any unique dialogue:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mondran_Redoran
Still not convincedI don't know; I came into the game in 2017, so I didn't experience the original version of it.
It's funny that ESO originally had no justice system at all at launch. It was added in 2015, I think.More random encounters would be nice, especially in older zones.
I like what they did for some events, where you have little tasks to do, choices to make and some encounters give you items to use in other encounters (just that sadly, it didn't really lead to much). I'd like to see more like that, even with a bit more depth, maybe even have some encounters serve as a quest starter.It's the same basic quest, but there's some different dialogue. Prince Azah talks about the Writhing Fortress in the past tense and explains what it was like in there--not in detail, just a general way.
Who is supposed to have stormed it? "The Stirk Fellowship"?Also, the part that was bugged when I did it on my main--the optional 'talk to Mirmal' part--worked, and I think it might have been bugged before because Mirmal also references the Writhing Fortress, and when this quest first came out, the third phase of the event hadn't yet been unlocked. It was nice to finally be able to experience what Mirmal had to say.
What did he say? Was it important?you still get the satisfaction of firing the Meridian Lens at the wall.
I just wished it wouldn't beam for all eternity! Every time I get to the camp wayshrine, it beams again. Who is even controlling it now? And why would it beam at a Wall that's supposed to be long gone?And I find it funny that when we first encounter him in the fissure, his goal is, "We must mend the Wall!" But then we put a stop to that, he steals Darien's light, and his attitude is, "The Wall? Oh, that old thing--don't even care about that anymore."
He's an evil wizard, so it's clear he's trying to confuse youOh, I forgot you had that on the back burner! Well, I'm interested to read your impression of it. That's another place where Vanny gets called 'old man'. If npcs keep that up, pretty soon 'old man' actually will be synonymous with Vanus Galerion.
So, about Hero's Return: The first thing that I saw of it was that pop-up where you're informed about its existence and can decide to be ported to that dungeon. Unfortunately, there was a typo directly in the header, the very first word.
I also found the description a little funny though it might have not been intended: The description says by finishing this quest you'll "save Tamriel" (of course, it needs to be something huge...), and I think two lines below that, it gave the estimated playtime: 10-15 minutes Saving Tamriel was never that easy! I think it took me less than 10 minutes, by the way.
I got ported to the location. I found the visuals really appealing. As usual, the world design team did a great job. Then I walked up to that table and noticed that all item names are untranslated, in English. Strange that it wasn't fixed yet (how long has that thing been in game now?). Made me wonder how many people might have even seen that tutorial yet.
Vanny is happy of having found a "very capable hero". My character is level 3 and has done nothing yet except for the normal tutorial about escaping Coldharbor. Generally, something felt a little weird about Vanny. His speech style, at least in the German translation, didn't really seem to fit his depiction elsewhere in the game. Apart from the translation itself feeling a little wonky, he seemed strangely emotional. I also don't think I ever saw him smiling that much. Also I did notice he was praising us several times. I mean, who doesn't enjoy being praised by an old man?! But it still felt like this was all taking place in a strange parallel dimension.
The baddie also seemed to struggle with deciding how to call Vanny. "Old man" was one term, but he also called him "Vanus" once, and another time "Galerion".
The fights themselves seemed strangely trivial. I mean, yes, it's a tutorial, but we just kill a few enemies, or sometimes even just one, and then it goes from portal to portal. There was much more combat in the normal introductory tutorial. I was slightly annoyed by the predefined skills, by the way, because I'm used to my normal ones which I use every day. But considering that tutorial is intended for people who haven't played ESO at all for a while, it's probably not a problem under normal circumstances.
But to be honest I'm also not sure what the average returning player would learn during that tutorial? Walking, blocking, dodging, light and heavy attacks - was there something else? I'm not even sure if skills were adressed? And when it comes to the absolute basics of combat, ESO is very standard, so I'm really not sure whether anyone needs to be reminded on how to block or strike.
Now, lorewise, I think if one doesn't have any background info on TES lore, it's just confusing. You're who knows where, it looks strange there, that baddie wants to steal something (someone unfamiliar with TES lore will have no clue what "the power of the Firstmages" even means), he and Vanny are babbling, and it's not very informative. Now, I don't know if such a type of tutorial needs much lore (especially considering people who never log off for whole months would never get to see it normally), but honestly the situation came across as a little chaotic to me.
So in the end we got very basic commands, very nice visuals, and Vanny praising our character. It was a slightly strange experience.
And after that you get that extra Golden Pursuit with all those extra items, which are indeed quite useful, especially for a new character (maybe even mostly for a new character, since a character who had been played for a while will already have good supplies on them - those never expire, after all). What will happen to that, I wonder? Won't Golden Pursuits disappear once they introduce the battle pass? Or is that something that will remain and they "only" remove endeavours and event writs? I found the UI with all those submenus related to the returning player tutorial a bit chaotic, by the way.
And I actually decided I might do those tasks, for those easily earned rewards. I have nothing else on the NA server yet, so why not?! It's a good start in case I ever decide to play a bit more on that server. In terms of usefulness for a player to learn about the game, the tasks there seemed more useful to me than the actual tutorial, too, leading you to important locations, reminding you about activities.
I noticed a few changes though, compared to what I remembered, when getting the basic things done for my new character. The tavern room seller npc only gives you a room in your faction's starter zone now, while until a few years ago, you could choose freely which one you want. I found that a little strange. I wanted the Vivec apartment first, I could also talk to her there, but the dialogue just wouldn't continue at some point. I tried it at another location, with the same problem. Then tried starter zone, and there it worked. Well, that quest got changed several times over the years; at the very beginning there was a quest related to it, then you just needed to pay a little sum of gold, and now it's completely free.
Then I let my character join the guilds, and the conversation with the Mages Guild guy also seemed a little inconsistent in terms of lore. He also had two different voice actors, so it's obvious that there must have been some rerecording of some of his lines (or new ones were added) at some point. He tells us that Vanny was "one of the founding members" - who else was there? All other lore sources state that he was the only founder. And then it goes on: "He's still the guild master" - while we know that he actually retired at some point and only returned because of the current crisis.
The same guy told me that the sole purpose of the Mages Guild was to "search for new knowledge, gather it in our libraries and copy it to spread it in all of Tamriel".@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I noticed a few changes though, compared to what I remembered, when getting the basic things done for my new character. The tavern room seller npc only gives you a room in your faction's starter zone now, while until a few years ago, you could choose freely which one you want. I found that a little strange. I wanted the Vivec apartment first, I could also talk to her there, but the dialogue just wouldn't continue at some point. I tried it at another location, with the same problem. Then tried starter zone, and there it worked. Well, that quest got changed several times over the years; at the very beginning there was a quest related to it, then you just needed to pay a little sum of gold, and now it's completely free.
I have a little insight on this. The very first character on your account gets locked to their factions zone when getting their first apartment, but following characters should be able to choose whichever one they want when they do the quest. (Especially if they are in the same faction and the "default" apartment for their faction is already on your account) That's what's been happening on my own account on the EU server, where I'm not very well established yet and am still unlocking things. (Unless they changed it on me again. But that was only a short time ago.)PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die2 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭You didn't miss it. They said they have more streams planned soon, but no dates were mentioned.
What a pity! But I've been browsing the PTS forum a bit at least (don't worry - no spoilers!) and I've noticed that devs are a little more active right now. Patch notes are also interesting. Didn't we talk about that new trade bar market some days ago? While it wasn't intended to be more than a menu in the UI (within the crown store, which doesn't surprise me), there was so much disappointed posts from players who had expected an actual location, that they now seem to consider to add a real location with a later update. I hope it will be at least as nicely designed as the Belkarth festival location.
We didn't talk about the trade bar market. I hadn't realized it was just a UI menu. I thought it was going to be an actual place in Abah's Landing (that's the city in Gold Coast, right?) A physical place with vendors, not just some menu in the crown store. Well, I hope they will add an actual location.
Sure, creature lore, but within that lore hints on where they're usually found--at least, that was what I was hoping they'd be like.For myself, I planned on approaching it by biome rather than zone (since they specifically used the word biome when talking about the mounts). So I'll go to Davon's Watch to see if they have a mount for the Stonefalls and Deshaan type biome, Shadowfen for the marsh biome, and Eastmarch for the tundra biome of that zone and the Rift. Auridon for the island/sea biome. Grahtwood for the Valenwood style, and so forth.
Auridon got this one, from what I've seen in the stream:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ja'zennji_Siir_Fox
Does it fit? I don't know.
Yeah, I saw that on the stream, and it did make me wonder what the connection is to that area. I have that mount already--bought it from the crown store a couple years ago because I thought it was cute.I would think Wrothgar might have its own new mount, and that is being added to base game in Season 0, isn't it? Anyway, I don't mind the hunt for the mounts--I think it'll be fun, and then there are the new books to read, too.
Travelling around buying different mounts will surely be fun - if one knows which stables even have one of the new mounts. I think travelling to some only to realize there's nothing would be a bit less fun. As for what the new mount will be: If it's indeed Wrothgar-related, it would be surprising if it's not an echatere.
Well, sure, it could become a little tedious if you aren't finding the mounts. I'm sure people on the PTS have already found where all the mounts are, including the brand new one, but I'm going to try to avoid that information so I can discover it myself in game.Maybe it's new lore they're adding, or the flavor text on the mount/pet will say more specifically how it works. Or maybe a sneaky Telvanni had a hand in it after all!
I felt the need to google it, of course:
""It's a warm ride, that's for sure. Don't worry though, the skin isn't actually molten, just very, very hot. The tongue though. Watch out for the tongue."—Mondran Redoran, Ebonheart"
It's this guy - some random town commoner without any unique dialogue:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mondran_Redoran
Still not convinced
Lol, well, I think I'll keep with my hypothesis of a sneaky Telvanni trying to cover up their magical experiments and pawn the fire Vvardvark off on a Redoran dupe.More random encounters would be nice, especially in older zones.
I like what they did for some events, where you have little tasks to do, choices to make and some encounters give you items to use in other encounters (just that sadly, it didn't really lead to much). I'd like to see more like that, even with a bit more depth, maybe even have some encounters serve as a quest starter.
That would be nice; things like that make the zone feel more lived in and active to me.
Probably. Like I said, he didn't give a lot of detail. My guy's reaction was pretty much, "Ok, cool, so what do you want me to do now?"Also, the part that was bugged when I did it on my main--the optional 'talk to Mirmal' part--worked, and I think it might have been bugged before because Mirmal also references the Writhing Fortress, and when this quest first came out, the third phase of the event hadn't yet been unlocked. It was nice to finally be able to experience what Mirmal had to say.
What did he say? Was it important?
Not particularly important. Pretty much talking about how, with the Fortress taken care of, the Meridian Lens should work better. Honestly, I was kind of distracted by his movements--they gave him a kind of nervous hand-motion--kind of like wringing his hands in anxiety--and his facial expression was also kind of uncertain. It actually endeared him to me, because it came across like he knows how important this is, and he's a bit nervous it might not work, and he really hopes he did everything right to make it successful.
The thing has never displayed a consistent appearance for me. I've been around the rampart camp since eastern opened up, and sometimes it's firing and sometimes it's completely inert.And I find it funny that when we first encounter him in the fissure, his goal is, "We must mend the Wall!" But then we put a stop to that, he steals Darien's light, and his attitude is, "The Wall? Oh, that old thing--don't even care about that anymore."
He's an evil wizard, so it's clear he's trying to confuse you
Well, consider it a job well done!Oh, I forgot you had that on the back burner! Well, I'm interested to read your impression of it. That's another place where Vanny gets called 'old man'. If npcs keep that up, pretty soon 'old man' actually will be synonymous with Vanus Galerion.
So, about Hero's Return: The first thing that I saw of it was that pop-up where you're informed about its existence and can decide to be ported to that dungeon. Unfortunately, there was a typo directly in the header, the very first word.
I also found the description a little funny though it might have not been intended: The description says by finishing this quest you'll "save Tamriel" (of course, it needs to be something huge...), and I think two lines below that, it gave the estimated playtime: 10-15 minutes Saving Tamriel was never that easy! I think it took me less than 10 minutes, by the way.
Pretty high stakes for such a short quest, isn't it? Well, you know, heroes need heroic things to do, after all!I got ported to the location. I found the visuals really appealing. As usual, the world design team did a great job. Then I walked up to that table and noticed that all item names are untranslated, in English. Strange that it wasn't fixed yet (how long has that thing been in game now?). Made me wonder how many people might have even seen that tutorial yet.
Vanny is happy of having found a "very capable hero". My character is level 3 and has done nothing yet except for the normal tutorial about escaping Coldharbor. Generally, something felt a little weird about Vanny. His speech style, at least in the German translation, didn't really seem to fit his depiction elsewhere in the game. Apart from the translation itself feeling a little wonky, he seemed strangely emotional. I also don't think I ever saw him smiling that much. Also I did notice he was praising us several times. I mean, who doesn't enjoy being praised by an old man?! But it still felt like this was all taking place in a strange parallel dimension.
The baddie also seemed to struggle with deciding how to call Vanny. "Old man" was one term, but he also called him "Vanus" once, and another time "Galerion".
I didn't find that strange. I figured he was a former student, or at least someone who used to look up to Vanny, and was used to calling him 'Galerion', sometimes permitted himself the more familiar 'Vanus', and then in the end decided he didn't need to be respectful at all anymore and so went with a slightly derisive 'old man'.
I think also that most people doing this won't be level 3 with no content except the tutorial finished, so the 'very capable hero' won't seem so out of place. I didn't notice that he seemed particularly emotional or smiley; but then he knew my character from before, so it wasn't the first time she was meeting him or interacting with him.The fights themselves seemed strangely trivial. I mean, yes, it's a tutorial, but we just kill a few enemies, or sometimes even just one, and then it goes from portal to portal. There was much more combat in the normal introductory tutorial. I was slightly annoyed by the predefined skills, by the way, because I'm used to my normal ones which I use every day. But considering that tutorial is intended for people who haven't played ESO at all for a while, it's probably not a problem under normal circumstances.
But to be honest I'm also not sure what the average returning player would learn during that tutorial? Walking, blocking, dodging, light and heavy attacks - was there something else? I'm not even sure if skills were adressed? And when it comes to the absolute basics of combat, ESO is very standard, so I'm really not sure whether anyone needs to be reminded on how to block or strike.
It makes sense to me that it wasn't as robust as the game starter tutorial, because it's for players who have been gone a little while, not brand new ones. I guess it would depend on the person and how long they were gone as to whether they'd forgotten any of that. I know that when I take longer breaks from MMOs, sometimes when I come back, I do forget some of the basic stuff (mostly because during that time I've been playing different games with different controls). ESO's combat actually isn't like other MMOs, so I could see people benefiting from a few reminders.Now, lorewise, I think if one doesn't have any background info on TES lore, it's just confusing. You're who knows where, it looks strange there, that baddie wants to steal something (someone unfamiliar with TES lore will have no clue what "the power of the Firstmages" even means), he and Vanny are babbling, and it's not very informative. Now, I don't know if such a type of tutorial needs much lore (especially considering people who never log off for whole months would never get to see it normally), but honestly the situation came across as a little chaotic to me.
It did go by quickly, and I didn't catch everything they were saying, so I agree it's a bit chaotic. Since it's not for brand-new players, I would think people have some knowledge of the lore going in. I didn't fully understand what the hub-bub was about, but if Vanus asks me to help him save the world, I'm gonna do it.And after that you get that extra Golden Pursuit with all those extra items, which are indeed quite useful, especially for a new character (maybe even mostly for a new character, since a character who had been played for a while will already have good supplies on them - those never expire, after all). What will happen to that, I wonder? Won't Golden Pursuits disappear once they introduce the battle pass? Or is that something that will remain and they "only" remove endeavours and event writs? I found the UI with all those submenus related to the returning player tutorial a bit chaotic, by the way.
Golden Pursuits will remain; it's endeavors that are being rolled in with the Battle Pass.
I think the Golden Pursuit for the Hero's Return was pretty well put together overall--some nice rewards for getting back into the game.I noticed a few changes though, compared to what I remembered, when getting the basic things done for my new character. The tavern room seller npc only gives you a room in your faction's starter zone now, while until a few years ago, you could choose freely which one you want. I found that a little strange.
You will take your pokey base game inn room and you'll like it!Then I let my character join the guilds, and the conversation with the Mages Guild guy also seemed a little inconsistent in terms of lore. He also had two different voice actors, so it's obvious that there must have been some rerecording of some of his lines (or new ones were added) at some point. He tells us that Vanny was "one of the founding members" - who else was there? All other lore sources state that he was the only founder. And then it goes on: "He's still the guild master" - while we know that he actually retired at some point and only returned because of the current crisis.
The same guy told me that the sole purpose of the Mages Guild was to "search for new knowledge, gather it in our libraries and copy it to spread it in all of Tamriel".
Hmm, that's odd--the voice lines bit, I mean, and the lore inconsistency. You could alway submit a bug report about it. Or...whatever one does to let them know about these things. As for the purpose of the Guild, seems like recruiter guy needs to update his pitch--either that or he's trying to keep the more dangerous aspects of joining the guild quiet so he won't scare off new recruits. "Join the guild so we can send you off to join the Stirk Fellowship and you'll probably get killed by Worm Cultists!"0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We didn't talk about the trade bar market. I hadn't realized it was just a UI menu. I thought it was going to be an actual place in Abah's Landing (that's the city in Gold Coast, right?) A physical place with vendors, not just some menu in the crown store. Well, I hope they will add an actual location.
Abah's Landing is in Hew's Bane. The Gold Coast is the Dark Brotherhood DLC region with Anvil and Kvatch. In terms of atmosphere, I would have actually prefered Fargrave for this. Would also make it more explainable how all kinds of wares from all over Nirn and beyond could show up there.Yeah, I saw that on the stream, and it did make me wonder what the connection is to that area. I have that mount already--bought it from the crown store a couple years ago because I thought it was cute.
I've seen the full list now - no spoilers - , and to be honest I don't really see a relation between many of the mounts and the zones of the stables where they can be found. Sure, in some cases it fits, but often it doesn't. Even stranger is that some of them do have a location in their name, yet they're sold in completely different regions. Sometimes the biome could still fit more or less, but I personally would put a Breton terrier (just as an example) into a Breton region, not into a mild, climatically more or less similar region in Cyrodiil (well, perhaps not the best example, as Cyrodiil has many immigrants from all parts of the continent, including Bretons, but you get what I mean). In terms of atmosphere I would have chosen something that makes the offered mounts feel like a local breed, a speciality that only exist at that stable. I mean, I won't complain about that amount of mounts becoming available for gold now, of course. I'm just wondering why they decided to choose these for these locations while there would have been different more intuitive options.Probably. Like I said, he didn't give a lot of detail. My guy's reaction was pretty much, "Ok, cool, so what do you want me to do now?"
If I was a new player joining now or in a few years, I'd probably wonder what this fortress is and why players can't play such an important part of the narration...Not particularly important. Pretty much talking about how, with the Fortress taken care of, the Meridian Lens should work better. Honestly, I was kind of distracted by his movements--they gave him a kind of nervous hand-motion--kind of like wringing his hands in anxiety--and his facial expression was also kind of uncertain. It actually endeared him to me, because it came across like he knows how important this is, and he's a bit nervous it might not work, and he really hopes he did everything right to make it successful.
He always came across like that to me somehow. I don't even know why exactly, but he triggered that weird protective instinct I have, already at some earlier point of the West Solstice story.The thing has never displayed a consistent appearance for me. I've been around the rampart camp since eastern opened up, and sometimes it's firing and sometimes it's completely inert.
For me it always shoots one beam. Every single time I arrive there. I don't even know whether all lenses are displayed correctly, though. I only see that flash (that I find rather unpleasant for the eyes) and don't look further.Pretty high stakes for such a short quest, isn't it? Well, you know, heroes need heroic things to do, after all!
I think for a 10-minute-quest, they could have chosen a description that feels more... realistic. "Saving the world" just comes across as absurd. I mean, I found it very funny, but I'm not sure whether humour was the intention there.I didn't find that strange. I figured he was a former student, or at least someone who used to look up to Vanny, and was used to calling him 'Galerion', sometimes permitted himself the more familiar 'Vanus', and then in the end decided he didn't need to be respectful at all anymore and so went with a slightly derisive 'old man'.
"Old man" - yes. But adressing him interchangeably with his first name and last name? Does anyone do that?I think also that most people doing this won't be level 3 with no content except the tutorial finished, so the 'very capable hero' won't seem so out of place. I didn't notice that he seemed particularly emotional or smiley; but then he knew my character from before, so it wasn't the first time she was meeting him or interacting with him.
I know, I just found it funny in that specific situation. Especially after I had just read that I'll save the world in 10 minutes.It makes sense to me that it wasn't as robust as the game starter tutorial, because it's for players who have been gone a little while, not brand new ones. I guess it would depend on the person and how long they were gone as to whether they'd forgotten any of that. I know that when I take longer breaks from MMOs, sometimes when I come back, I do forget some of the basic stuff (mostly because during that time I've been playing different games with different controls). ESO's combat actually isn't like other MMOs, so I could see people benefiting from a few reminders.
It's not typical MMO combat, but it's close to many non-MMO rpgs. I was just wondering if that tutorial serves its purpose and for whom. You have a little dialogue as an introduction, then you run through portals and fight 1/3/1 enemies between those portals (I think it was). And then it was over again. It didn't feel like a world-ending threat eitherIt did go by quickly, and I didn't catch everything they were saying, so I agree it's a bit chaotic. Since it's not for brand-new players, I would think people have some knowledge of the lore going in. I didn't fully understand what the hub-bub was about, but if Vanus asks me to help him save the world, I'm gonna do it.
It took place in the Aetherian Archive which is also the location of a trial, so I think most players will already have heard the name. But as for what it's about - I think most people who haven't done the trial and also don't read about TES lore much will not have a clue. Then again, it didn't matter anyway, I guess. We needed to stop a baddie from stealing whatever, and that's it. I personally would have placed a lorebook at the location, an optional read for people who are interested about where they even ended up.I think the Golden Pursuit for the Hero's Return was pretty well put together overall--some nice
rewards for getting back into the game.
I noticed there are many that are absolutely perfect for a new(er) player (on my EU side of the account I wouldn't need them anymore), but on the other hand I'm stuck with a few tasks now because my character who has just reached level 5 just can't do them yet. I can't do a group dungeon yet, I can't do any Undaunted quests since I don't get the quest markers yet (not even for Bolgrul), etc. I could defeat the first boss in the Archive at least, half-naked, with no ultimate and only 1 skill, at level 3. I know it scales, but it made me wonder why I can play that as a completely new player, but can't take a simple Bolgrul quest until level 10?Hmm, that's odd--the voice lines bit, I mean, and the lore inconsistency. You could alway submit a bug report about it. Or...whatever one does to let them know about these things
I'm not sure whether they want to debate lore through bug reports...As for the purpose of the Guild, seems like recruiter guy needs to update his pitch--either that or he's trying to keep the more dangerous aspects of joining the guild quiet so he won't scare off new recruits. "Join the guild so we can send you off to join the Stirk Fellowship and you'll probably get killed by Worm Cultists!"
I also found it funny that it focused solely on book collecting. No alchemy, no enchanting, no, only book collecting. Which is a fine endeavour, of course - I think I mentioned I collect antique books in real life - , but it did feel like that guy had forgotten about a few things.ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »I have a little insight on this. The very first character on your account gets locked to their factions zone when getting their first apartment, but following characters should be able to choose whichever one they want when they do the quest. (Especially if they are in the same faction and the "default" apartment for their faction is already on your account) That's what's been happening on my own account on the EU server, where I'm not very well established yet and am still unlocking things. (Unless they changed it on me again. But that was only a short time ago.)
But that only changed when they changed back to the old tutorial, did it? At least it wouldn't make much sense when the Balfiera tutorial was still active, where you could choose completely freely where to start the game (including not coming across your base game faction zones for hundreds of hours of playtime).@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
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.But that only changed when they changed back to the old tutorial, did it? At least it wouldn't make much sense when the Balfiera tutorial was still active, where you could choose completely freely where to start the game (including not coming across your base game faction zones for hundreds of hours of playtime).
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's when it changed. I have an alternate account that serves as storage, which I started up during the Balfiera tutorial, and it wasn't like that during that time. I immediately went to Vivec city and got the apartment there on an EP nord. No ESO+ or Any Race/Alliance on that account.
There's also a weird bug where sometimes it will send a character to their faction, even if you already own that base game apartment, and it won't let them take any other DLC apartments. I had to get that sorted more than once.PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭We didn't talk about the trade bar market. I hadn't realized it was just a UI menu. I thought it was going to be an actual place in Abah's Landing (that's the city in Gold Coast, right?) A physical place with vendors, not just some menu in the crown store. Well, I hope they will add an actual location.
Abah's Landing is in Hew's Bane. The Gold Coast is the Dark Brotherhood DLC region with Anvil and Kvatch. In terms of atmosphere, I would have actually prefered Fargrave for this. Would also make it more explainable how all kinds of wares from all over Nirn and beyond could show up there.
I always get those two zones mixed up. But, yeah, Fargrave would be a good place for it, too.Yeah, I saw that on the stream, and it did make me wonder what the connection is to that area. I have that mount already--bought it from the crown store a couple years ago because I thought it was cute.
I've seen the full list now - no spoilers - , and to be honest I don't really see a relation between many of the mounts and the zones of the stables where they can be found. Sure, in some cases it fits, but often it doesn't. Even stranger is that some of them do have a location in their name, yet they're sold in completely different regions. Sometimes the biome could still fit more or less, but I personally would put a Breton terrier (just as an example) into a Breton region, not into a mild, climatically more or less similar region in Cyrodiil (well, perhaps not the best example, as Cyrodiil has many immigrants from all parts of the continent, including Bretons, but you get what I mean). In terms of atmosphere I would have chosen something that makes the offered mounts feel like a local breed, a speciality that only exist at that stable. I mean, I won't complain about that amount of mounts becoming available for gold now, of course. I'm just wondering why they decided to choose these for these locations while there would have been different more intuitive options.
Well, that's a little disappointing. Perhaps their primary goal was to spread them out across zones in a somewhat equal manner rather than adhering strictly to where they'd make most sense.Probably. Like I said, he didn't give a lot of detail. My guy's reaction was pretty much, "Ok, cool, so what do you want me to do now?"
If I was a new player joining now or in a few years, I'd probably wonder what this fortress is and why players can't play such an important part of the narration...
If I was a new player who hadn't been around for the event, I think it would be a bit confusing for them to suddenly be talking about the Fortress. I guess it somewhat depends on how well it will live on in game lore, but some people might just assume it was something that happened "off-screen"--like all the research Gabrielle did on the Gift of Death. Who knows--maybe ZOS will make a soloable version of it available for story cohesion. No idea if they have any plans to really do anything like that, but they probably could.Not particularly important. Pretty much talking about how, with the Fortress taken care of, the Meridian Lens should work better. Honestly, I was kind of distracted by his movements--they gave him a kind of nervous hand-motion--kind of like wringing his hands in anxiety--and his facial expression was also kind of uncertain. It actually endeared him to me, because it came across like he knows how important this is, and he's a bit nervous it might not work, and he really hopes he did everything right to make it successful.
He always came across like that to me somehow. I don't even know why exactly, but he triggered that weird protective instinct I have, already at some earlier point of the West Solstice story.
He did, but in this case it was really quite noticeable and made me wish (again) that we got to interact with him more during the course of the main quest. I do like Mirmal--I found him to be an interesting new npc.Pretty high stakes for such a short quest, isn't it? Well, you know, heroes need heroic things to do, after all!
I think for a 10-minute-quest, they could have chosen a description that feels more... realistic. "Saving the world" just comes across as absurd. I mean, I found it very funny, but I'm not sure whether humour was the intention there.
It might have been intended as a bit of a humorous take on us constantly saving Tamriel from such dangers. I'm sure ZOS is aware of player's feelings regarding so many of the chapters having been centered around ye olde world-ending threat.I didn't find that strange. I figured he was a former student, or at least someone who used to look up to Vanny, and was used to calling him 'Galerion', sometimes permitted himself the more familiar 'Vanus', and then in the end decided he didn't need to be respectful at all anymore and so went with a slightly derisive 'old man'.
"Old man" - yes. But adressing him interchangeably with his first name and last name? Does anyone do that?
They do. I had a friend who I used to sometimes call by his last name, sometimes by his first, depending on the situation. It was sort of a joke when I called him by his last name only--but also affectionate. Of course, I was never in the position of betraying him and trying to steal world-threatening secrets, so I probably wouldn't have been so casual in such a situation.It makes sense to me that it wasn't as robust as the game starter tutorial, because it's for players who have been gone a little while, not brand new ones. I guess it would depend on the person and how long they were gone as to whether they'd forgotten any of that. I know that when I take longer breaks from MMOs, sometimes when I come back, I do forget some of the basic stuff (mostly because during that time I've been playing different games with different controls). ESO's combat actually isn't like other MMOs, so I could see people benefiting from a few reminders.
It's not typical MMO combat, but it's close to many non-MMO rpgs. I was just wondering if that tutorial serves its purpose and for whom. You have a little dialogue as an introduction, then you run through portals and fight 1/3/1 enemies between those portals (I think it was). And then it was over again. It didn't feel like a world-ending threat either
I thought it served the purpose of getting players quickly back into the action. I don't think it was meant to be a deep story, or lore-centric.It did go by quickly, and I didn't catch everything they were saying, so I agree it's a bit chaotic. Since it's not for brand-new players, I would think people have some knowledge of the lore going in. I didn't fully understand what the hub-bub was about, but if Vanus asks me to help him save the world, I'm gonna do it.
It took place in the Aetherian Archive which is also the location of a trial, so I think most players will already have heard the name. But as for what it's about - I think most people who haven't done the trial and also don't read about TES lore much will not have a clue. Then again, it didn't matter anyway, I guess. We needed to stop a baddie from stealing whatever, and that's it. I personally would have placed a lorebook at the location, an optional read for people who are interested about where they even ended up.
More lore books are always welcome!I think the Golden Pursuit for the Hero's Return was pretty well put together overall--some nice
rewards for getting back into the game.
I noticed there are many that are absolutely perfect for a new(er) player (on my EU side of the account I wouldn't need them anymore), but on the other hand I'm stuck with a few tasks now because my character who has just reached level 5 just can't do them yet. I can't do a group dungeon yet, I can't do any Undaunted quests since I don't get the quest markers yet (not even for Bolgrul), etc. I could defeat the first boss in the Archive at least, half-naked, with no ultimate and only 1 skill, at level 3. I know it scales, but it made me wonder why I can play that as a completely new player, but can't take a simple Bolgrul quest until level 10?
There does seem to be a bit of a mismatch there with when low level players can access certain things (I didn't know you could do IA at such a low level). But I really think this was designed for higher level players coming back, not people who created a character and left them to languish just so they could see Vanus Galerion one more time! Not that I blame you. If I hadn't triggered it on my secondary account, I probably would have done something similar.
Probably not, but I did say "or whatever one does to let them know." I covered my bases!As for the purpose of the Guild, seems like recruiter guy needs to update his pitch--either that or he's trying to keep the more dangerous aspects of joining the guild quiet so he won't scare off new recruits. "Join the guild so we can send you off to join the Stirk Fellowship and you'll probably get killed by Worm Cultists!"
I also found it funny that it focused solely on book collecting. No alchemy, no enchanting, no, only book collecting. Which is a fine endeavour, of course - I think I mentioned I collect antique books in real life - , but it did feel like that guy had forgotten about a few things.
I just got an image of a really bored recruiter, tired of signing up initiates to the Mages Guild, and so he puts the least amount of effort into it as he can get away with.
I'm continuing my eastern Solstice main quest play-through with my other guy. He's not doing any side quests, so I'll see if that cuts down on the repetitive nature of some of the information. One thing I realized, though, is that the player response options don't really fit him at all. He's a pretty easy-going guy and he likes just about everyone he meets, but the friendly options are really just too friendly, even for him. He gives everyone the benefit of the doubt (probably more often than he should), but his initial friendliness is surface level (he feels likes he may as well start off nice in all situations) and yet all these friendly-face responses are based on having known these npcs for a long time--which he hasn't. There was even one response where he could have told Darien, "I knew you before you disappeared in Coldharbour" (or something to that effect), but the thing is--he didn't. He met Darien for the first time in Coldharbour, and they didn't have that much to do together. So in the end, my super friendly character who cheerfully makes his way through a tragic world has been choosing mostly neutral responses. It kind of bums me out.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always get those two zones mixed up.
I can't really keep most Breton zones apart. There's one with a cemetery. And one with a dolmen at the Northern shore. And also one with a town that looks like any other Breton town, apart from the fact that their king lives there. But that's all I need to know anyway.Well, that's a little disappointing. Perhaps their primary goal was to spread them out across zones in a somewhat equal manner rather than adhering strictly to where they'd make most sense.
I think we can discuss that in further detail when that update is released. It's still two months, I think? But I'm sure the thread will persist.If I was a new player who hadn't been around for the event, I think it would be a bit confusing for them to suddenly be talking about the Fortress. I guess it somewhat depends on how well it will live on in game lore, but some people might just assume it was something that happened "off-screen"--like all the research Gabrielle did on the Gift of Death. Who knows--maybe ZOS will make a soloable version of it available for story cohesion. No idea if they have any plans to really do anything like that, but they probably could.
It's a pity they didn't keep a scaling version of it in game. But who knows, maybe it will return some day, reskinned as something else (though I'd miss the infernium then; I don't know why, but they're cute somehow).He did, but in this case it was really quite noticeable and made me wish (again) that we got to interact with him more during the course of the main quest. I do like Mirmal--I found him to be an interesting new npc.
Generally, I like him, too, and think they could make more of this character. Maybe they will; the story did end with him wanting to travel, after all. And yes, I remember that the first encounter was rather... strange. That dialogue was still horribly bugged and we needed to ask rather silly questions. But it got a little better over time.It might have been intended as a bit of a humorous take on us constantly saving Tamriel from such dangers. I'm sure ZOS is aware of player's feelings regarding so many of the chapters having been centered around ye olde world-ending threat.
But even if they're aware, their stories usually still end like that. This year's possibly not, as they're probably smaller in scale. Well, I'll just wait and see.They do. I had a friend who I used to sometimes call by his last name, sometimes by his first, depending on the situation. It was sort of a joke when I called him by his last name only--but also affectionate. Of course, I was never in the position of betraying him and trying to steal world-threatening secrets, so I probably wouldn't have been so casual in such a situation.
If I'd betray a friend to steal world-threatening secrets, I probably wouldn't say much at all. Maybe that was that random baddie's fault! We should be glad, since otherwise... well, I'm honestly not even sure what would have happened otherwise.There does seem to be a bit of a mismatch there with when low level players can access certain things (I didn't know you could do IA at such a low level).
I didn't expect it either, but it played strangely well.But I really think this was designed for higher level players coming back, not people who created a character and left them to languish just so they could see Vanus Galerion one more time!
Only because I hoped he'd say something overly dramatic againI'm continuing my eastern Solstice main quest play-through with my other guy. He's not doing any side quests, so I'll see if that cuts down on the repetitive nature of some of the information.
I know I'll also take my Sixth House Dunmer through East Solstice some day, but right now I think it's better to wait for a while. I told you of the bugged dialogues in the German version, and one of the main reasons for ever playing that content again would be to experience those correctly - so I don't want to try it too early, not to run into exactly the same bugs again (not sure if I had enough patience to repeat it all for a third time). Of course I now wonder how long of a wait would be reasonable... Will everything be fixed in month? Two? Or even later?
I think I could at least do quest part 6 and breach the Wall some time soon... I need to get a character to Aldwilne Citadel to steal Worm Cult disguises, after all (and this time, I'll move them into my bank immediately after pickup). I still find it remarkable that access to those boxes would be cut off after the end of the quest. There's no changes at all about the Stirk camps (though it would have made sense there to just have them show up once the relevant quest stage was reached), but that Worm Cult camp changes... despite it not being that necessary for the story. It feels like they restrict access to those costumes on purpose. But why? Especially since they did announce once that they'd make all disguises collection items (though I'm not sure if they still remember).One thing I realized, though, is that the player response options don't really fit him at all. He's a pretty easy-going guy and he likes just about everyone he meets, but the friendly options are really just too friendly, even for him. He gives everyone the benefit of the doubt (probably more often than he should), but his initial friendliness is surface level (he feels likes he may as well start off nice in all situations) and yet all these friendly-face responses are based on having known these npcs for a long time--which he hasn't. There was even one response where he could have told Darien, "I knew you before you disappeared in Coldharbour" (or something to that effect), but the thing is--he didn't. He met Darien for the first time in Coldharbour, and they didn't have that much to do together. So in the end, my super friendly character who cheerfully makes his way through a tragic world has been choosing mostly neutral responses. It kind of bums me out.
Some days ago I read some forum posts where someone (I can't remember who it was) said that a downside to the new dialogue options was that the neutral ones would feel more bland than in older content, to differ more from the emotional options... Well, I also find myself using the neutral one most of the time. Guess we're not cheerful enough.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I always get those two zones mixed up.
I can't really keep most Breton zones apart. There's one with a cemetery. And one with a dolmen at the Northern shore. And also one with a town that looks like any other Breton town, apart from the fact that their king lives there. But that's all I need to know anyway.
Don't forget the one with the friendly vampires! It also has unfriendly vampires.He did, but in this case it was really quite noticeable and made me wish (again) that we got to interact with him more during the course of the main quest. I do like Mirmal--I found him to be an interesting new npc.
Generally, I like him, too, and think they could make more of this character. Maybe they will; the story did end with him wanting to travel, after all. And yes, I remember that the first encounter was rather... strange. That dialogue was still horribly bugged and we needed to ask rather silly questions. But it got a little better over time.
Didn't Clockwork end with that apostle saying she might travel? Yet we haven't seen her anywhere else. I guess that could because Clockwork City isn't as easy to leave or get to as Solstice. One thing I never quite understood about Clockwork City is the notion that once you're there, you're there forever ("There's no way home!"). People do come and go (not talking about the player characters), and Neramo and the Vanos twins make it out again. Or do they? Have we seen them in game since Clockwork? Well, Divayth comes and goes, that much I do know for sure!They do. I had a friend who I used to sometimes call by his last name, sometimes by his first, depending on the situation. It was sort of a joke when I called him by his last name only--but also affectionate. Of course, I was never in the position of betraying him and trying to steal world-threatening secrets, so I probably wouldn't have been so casual in such a situation.
If I'd betray a friend to steal world-threatening secrets, I probably wouldn't say much at all. Maybe that was that random baddie's fault! We should be glad, since otherwise... well, I'm honestly not even sure what would have happened otherwise.
The Great Mage wouldn't have called for our help and we would have missed another opportunity to analyze him.I'm continuing my eastern Solstice main quest play-through with my other guy. He's not doing any side quests, so I'll see if that cuts down on the repetitive nature of some of the information.
I know I'll also take my Sixth House Dunmer through East Solstice some day, but right now I think it's better to wait for a while. I told you of the bugged dialogues in the German version, and one of the main reasons for ever playing that content again would be to experience those correctly - so I don't want to try it too early, not to run into exactly the same bugs again (not sure if I had enough patience to repeat it all for a third time). Of course I now wonder how long of a wait would be reasonable... Will everything be fixed in month? Two? Or even later?
It's hard to say. I usually wait until I see mention of a fix in the patch notes, and try after that, but I don't know if all bug fixes make it into the patch notes. I'd give it three months. Maybe two. I guess it would depend on what else I have going on in game.I think I could at least do quest part 6 and breach the Wall some time soon... I need to get a character to Aldwilne Citadel to steal Worm Cult disguises, after all (and this time, I'll move them into my bank immediately after pickup). I still find it remarkable that access to those boxes would be cut off after the end of the quest. There's no changes at all about the Stirk camps (though it would have made sense there to just have them show up once the relevant quest stage was reached), but that Worm Cult camp changes... despite it not being that necessary for the story. It feels like they restrict access to those costumes on purpose. But why? Especially since they did announce once that they'd make all disguises collection items (though I'm not sure if they still remember).
I didn't think of it at the time (I'm usually not that interested in wearing the disguises we use in quests any longer than necessary for the quest) but that is strange that those costumes didn't make it into the collection. It does seem like an oversight, one that hopefully will be fixed.One thing I realized, though, is that the player response options don't really fit him at all. He's a pretty easy-going guy and he likes just about everyone he meets, but the friendly options are really just too friendly, even for him. He gives everyone the benefit of the doubt (probably more often than he should), but his initial friendliness is surface level (he feels likes he may as well start off nice in all situations) and yet all these friendly-face responses are based on having known these npcs for a long time--which he hasn't. There was even one response where he could have told Darien, "I knew you before you disappeared in Coldharbour" (or something to that effect), but the thing is--he didn't. He met Darien for the first time in Coldharbour, and they didn't have that much to do together. So in the end, my super friendly character who cheerfully makes his way through a tragic world has been choosing mostly neutral responses. It kind of bums me out.
Some days ago I read some forum posts where someone (I can't remember who it was) said that a downside to the new dialogue options was that the neutral ones would feel more bland than in older content, to differ more from the emotional options... Well, I also find myself using the neutral one most of the time. Guess we're not cheerful enough.
I remember seeing that comment, too, and it does seem to be true. I do hope they expand/enrich the player response options, so there are more kinds of friendly (or mean, or flirtatious) that fit more personalities. Sometimes the options we're given do fit my characters, and it's fun to have that available, so overall I'm glad the system exists.
Edit to add:
Often times on a second playthrough of a quest series, I'll notice things I might not have picked up on the first time. Well, this time in the eastern Solstice main quest, when we get to Jeetra's village and the place has been soul-flayer-reaped, I wondered: even if the cultists successfully disguised themselves as simple traders, and the villagers stupidly thought the soul flayer was a product to buy, why didn't Jeetra's sister recognize the soul flayer? She was in the village; she used to be a cultist; she knew about the flayers. Is there a simple explanation for this that I'm missing? It's a small village; seems like a group of traders bringing in a big object would have attracted everyone's attention.Edited by metheglyn on January 14, 2026 5:18PM0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't forget the one with the friendly vampires! It also has unfriendly vampires.
This is indeed valuable info for the Order of the Black Worm. What might we do with them...Didn't Clockwork end with that apostle saying she might travel? Yet we haven't seen her anywhere else. I guess that could because Clockwork City isn't as easy to leave or get to as Solstice. One thing I never quite understood about Clockwork City is the notion that once you're there, you're there forever ("There's no way home!"). People do come and go (not talking about the player characters), and Neramo and the Vanos twins make it out again. Or do they? Have we seen them in game since Clockwork? Well, Divayth comes and goes, that much I do know for sure!
Nah, Luciana is severely injured (and, depending on your choice, can be saved or not), and Varuni does question why Sotha Sil doesn't allow people to leave, but that's exacly the situation there - they can't. Maybe it is a little inconsequential? I mean, Divayth is a close friend to Sil, so he might be an exception. But yes, the Vanos twins also get out again; we meet them again later in that one Dwemer ruin in Blackreach. Then again, we can speculate anyway which purpose that all serves - why aren't most people allowed to go? Are they altered in a way that they would not survive outside anymore if they stayed too long? Is it that they serve a clear purpose in CWC that Sil already foresees? Maybe the few quest people that arrived later are supposed to leave again because they don't belong to that design and would somehow bring things out of balance? It's never stated. But the whole thing is a cosmos on its own and I don't think Sil keeps them there without any reason. He's not the powerhungry type, he doesn't strive for admiration, he doesn't even see himself as a god. And the whole city serves a purpose, after all; even if we don't know the details around the Coldharbor Compact, we know Sil had something of importance in that negotation. Or maybe it's as simple as that: The city could be the last refuge if there's ever some catastrophe wiping out whole Nirn. But for that, it must be functioning, and it needs people - well-balanced for all necessary tasks, and most of all enough of them. If people could just leave at will, maybe that wouldn't work out. Now we can debate ethics, of course, whether this all is justified considering the circumstances. It's a more interesting theme leading to more interesting questions than the simple messages of later stories, at least.The Great Mage wouldn't have called for our help and we would have missed another opportunity to analyze him.
But in the end, we still couldn't invite him to have some tea with us.It's hard to say. I usually wait until I see mention of a fix in the patch notes, and try after that, but I don't know if all bug fixes make it into the patch notes. I'd give it three months. Maybe two. I guess it would depend on what else I have going on in game.
I can still replay Morrowind, CWC and Summerset. That will take a while. Though right now, I tried to complete some multi-part antiquities and there's also still a few houses I could furnish. Did I mention I really dislike that Kelesan'ruhn has two entrances to the building? There's only one single room that's easy to safely close off. Maybe I need to put in some extra walls...I didn't think of it at the time (I'm usually not that interested in wearing the disguises we use in quests any longer than necessary for the quest) but that is strange that those costumes didn't make it into the collection. It does seem like an oversight, one that hopefully will be fixed.
I collect all of them. Actually I still have them all since there are a few differences in function between them and the costumes. The costumes don't override some other cosmetic settings while the disguises do.I remember seeing that comment, too, and it does seem to be true. I do hope they expand/enrich the player response options, so there are more kinds of friendly (or mean, or flirtatious) that fit more personalities. Sometimes the options we're given do fit my characters, and it's fun to have that available, so overall I'm glad the system exists.
I think it would already be better if they were worded a bit... less extreme. It's possible to convey the emotion without making it absolutely in-your-face, after all.Often times on a second playthrough of a quest series, I'll notice things I might not have picked up on the first time. Well, this time in the eastern Solstice main quest, when we get to Jeetra's village and the place has been soul-flayer-reaped, I wondered: even if the cultists successfully disguised themselves as simple traders, and the villagers stupidly thought the soul flayer was a product to buy, why didn't Jeetra's sister recognize the soul flayer? She was in the village; she used to be a cultist; she knew about the flayers. Is there a simple explanation for this that I'm missing? It's a small village; seems like a group of traders bringing in a big object would have attracted everyone's attention.
Well, that's another inplausibility. But honestly, the whole thing doesn't make any sense. I'm not even sure if details matter anymore. Worm Cultists showing up disguised as random traders (What were they selling? Furniture? Maybe it was no disguise after all), with a huge creepy-looking thing, after the whole Worm Cult problem has already become common knowledge, the Wall had been there, cultists had been causing destruction, Coldharborized the whole landscape, abducted people... and no one shows any caution at all? It already seems almost comedic.
Or wait, now it get it: It's all a big furniture selling scheme! They travel around, sell furniture to people, then kill everyone with their soul flayer, box their furniture again and travel to the next village...
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0