Selling the solution: why the crafting bag and additional storage shouldn’t be paywalled

SilverBride · January 15

AScarlato wrote: »

So you'd rather not have flexibility in subbing by having QoL moved to everyone for...why exactly? If you wanted to feel like you were supporting the game you can still fork over money willingly. Or not. I'm not really seeing how this thought process plays out.

I am subbing for the perks. The fact that subs help keep the game running is a big plus because I want this game to keep running. I am not going to buy things I don't want to support the game when my sub already does that.

The craft bag is the main reason many players sub. If they give that or any version of it to everyone I suspect a lot of players would drop their sub, which would decrease the revenue a lot.

There is a reason that desirable perks are a part of the sub, or who would be subbing?

AScarlato wrote: »

You could just as easily make a new decision as to whether you'd like to sub or not based on whatever they offer.

I already made my decision to sub based on what they offer now.

AzuraFan · January 15

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Here is what i think would clear things up and solve some issues, i dont know how much of this is doable:
- increase base bank cap to 300 (600 with sub)
- clean up mat lists and consolidate mats using jewelry levels as a transition point.
- increase stack sizes to 400 OR reduce mat consumption costs for crafting.
- add a limited mat storage bag to the upcoming Bazaar using the new trade currency. Make it obtainable, limit how much can be placed in with a cap, and limit how many types of mats can be placed. But make it a bit more accessible.
- include a free tome (premium) access coin for every 3 months subbed to eso+
- reduce crowns received from eso plus per month from 1650 to 1500 to compensate for added value.

Thoughts on these? Just some ideas im shooting out there.

They do seem to be trying to mitigate the inventory management a bit, so I like your suggestions along those lines. I've always liked the idea of a limited craft bag. I guess the trick would be determining what the limit would be. If it's too high, it could still result in a loss of subs. The free tome, not so much, because basically all that gives you is cosmetics, and you have to earn them, to boot. Reducing crowns - definitely not.

I like that you're suggesting stuff. Another potential thing to try might be to offer only the craft bag at a much reduced price/month. Yes, you'd have some subscribers downgrade, which would be a revenue loss. But the hope would be that you'd get enough new subscribers to the reduced craft bag sub to make up for it. It would be a risk, for sure.

Anyway, thanks for the suggstions.

Radiate77 · January 15

@xR3ACTORx we need you on the front lines, brother.

Pevey · January 15

redlink1979 wrote: »

ESO+ sub doesn't cost much, per day it's like the cost a cup of coffee. I have no issues with it.
And I'd rather have this than a mandatory paid sub to play the game, as it happened before.

It essentially is a mandatory. It's mandatory if you want to actually get any enjoyment out of the game.

Unrelated to your comment...

This thread is so much like the arguments for and against having the mandatory sub years ago, right down to "How would ZOS survive without it" to "your opinion doesn't matter if you don't currently sub." But the game actually did a little better afterward. And then COVID came, and the game did a LOT better for a while. But when that boost fizzled out, it became more obvious that the revolving door of newcomers has never resulted in a net positive against the stream of core players who leave after bad patches.

Anytime these types of threads arise, it always seems to devolve into a group of people pitting themselves against another group. One sees themselves as the loyal ZOS defenders and sees the other group as constant complainers. Some people, including one who posted a lot in this thread, has even called for people not currently playing the game to be disallowed from posting on the forums. I hope it's obvious to most people how skewed the opinions expressed here would become if that were the case. Not only is it natural for people to take breaks from time to time (even from a hobby they love), it also would essentially disallow any feedback about frustrations players are experiencing.

I imagine I'm definitely seen by some as being in the group of constant complainers. I hope people can keep in mind that all of here are very passionate about ESO and very much want to see it succeed. There is no other reason we would be here. But some of us constant complainers just find it very difficult/impossible not to speak up when we see what we think are very bad decisions being made for the game. We're not attacking ZOS.

I'm still very much in wait and see mode, but right now I personally see much more reason to have hope for the future of this game than I have in years. Leadership seems to have their heads way up out of the sand now, realistic that the game was not on a good trajectory. Open to truly reconsidering and changing core design decisions to really fix some of the underlying issues holding ESO back instead of just tacking on another new little system that they hope will keep more people playing for a little longer.

We complainers are not freeloaders. I've spent thousands of dollars on ESO. When I argue against paywalls, it's because I understand how it makes me feel, I see how it impacts the game's reputation, and I know how that population size affects my own enjoyment of the game. It's not because I think everything should be free or that ZOS shouldn't make money. Of course, they should make money. The tiny and shrinking core play base they have right now is not going to support grand new content, no matter how much they try to charge for it. It just isn't. A different model was needed. And this new model will only thrive if they grow the player base. Some percentage of players will voluntarily pay for battle passes. Other games have shown that this model works. Players who buy them feel like they're getting something they value. And that voluntary transaction FEELS a whole lot better than pain pills or mandatory subs.

A larger game population means a healthier in-game economy, more guild options, more people running progression groups for PVE enjoyers, more people doing battlegrounds, duels, etc, etc. Higher population will improve the game even for solo players. More people playing means more who might buy a battle pass, which means more revenue for content to keep people interested in the game. It's fine if you disagree, but please don't think we don't want ZOS to make money.

freespirit · January 15

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

I already said it several times. Develop quality content we want to pay for. Simple as that. Not have a year of flimsy new content that has to be free.

We both know that's not going to happen. They've gone in a different direction. They're not charging for content anymore, so that's off the table. In fact, it makes retaining subscribers even more important. So what's your solution?

This game is known to be one of the most heavily montetized MMOs there is. It doesn't need to implement every unscrupulous tactic under the sun and get support for doing so.

Okay, but what's your solution? How would you replace the revenue that would be lost due to a significant number of cancellations of ESO+?

Here is what i think would clear things up and solve some issues, i dont know how much of this is doable:
- increase base bank cap to 300 (600 with sub)
- clean up mat lists and consolidate mats using jewelry levels as a transition point.
- increase stack sizes to 400 OR reduce mat consumption costs for crafting.
- add a limited mat storage bag to the upcoming Bazaar using the new trade currency. Make it obtainable, limit how much can be placed in with a cap, and limit how many types of mats can be placed. But make it a bit more accessible.
- include a free tome (premium) access coin for every 3 months subbed to eso+
- reduce crowns received from eso plus per month from 1650 to 1500 to compensate for added value.

Thoughts on these? Just some ideas im shooting out there.

All sound good, except reducing crown numbers per month, I would argue we have already lost enough value from the subs that they need to make it more attractive, I like my crowns!

AzuraFan · January 15

AScarlato wrote: »

Also sorry - if I had more to do in game at the moment I'd be here less.

I hear ya. And that joke about needing to win the argument against the stranger on the internet can apply to me too at times. It's so easy to get caught up in these conversations. Anyway, we'll both see how it all plays out while hopefully having fun in game.

AScarlato · January 15

AzuraFan wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Also sorry - if I had more to do in game at the moment I'd be here less.

I hear ya. And that joke about needing to win the argument against the stranger on the internet can apply to me too at times. It's so easy to get caught up in these conversations. Anyway, we'll both see how it all plays out while hopefully having fun in game.

It's all good. I know I can be annoyin...err, strongly opinionated at times.

In the past this time of year I'd be hyped about an upcoming Chapter and a thread like this would just pass me by. But presently for my interests I just see:

* 6 weeks of experimental content, twice
* Possibly two quests as opposed to an entire zone of quests
* New templar animations, but in 2027

And I am like

Hopefully I'm just over-reacting - because I'd really miss Ezabi if I stopped playing.

AzuraFan · January 15

AScarlato wrote: »

In the past this time of year I'd be hyped about an upcoming Chapter and a thread like this would just pass me by.

I wish they were still doing chapters. New story content and a zone to explore is what I enjoy doing the most. But for whatever reason, they decided it wasn't working for them. I'm hoping for the occasional new story zone, and I'm glad we're getting some story content. How long it will keep me here? I don't know. I still have stuff to do and I'm hoping the two solo dungeons (and hopefully more after that) will give me a good chunk of repeatable content to sink my teeth into. For now, I'm good. But not charging for content is a risky experiment, so to stay on the topic of monetization, I won't be surprised if they change what they charge for in the future and make changes to their subscription model. Time will tell.

spartaxoxo · January 16

AzuraFan wrote: »

Okay, I can see that, but I think it's probably a combination of the two. You need to retain players and attract new ones. We're losing a lot of older players because of the last few years. I've already said that some new players probably leave because of inventory frustration.

But let's say I accept your point fully, that the population is bleeding because a significant number of new players leave because they don't have the craft bag. What would you replace the craft bag with in the ESO+ sub that would significantly enhance the gaming experience, and why wouldn't you then argue that we need to give it to everyone for free?

I ask this (here and before) because I know that ZOS has engineered stuff so that people want/need the craft bag. I don't like it either. But I know ZOS needs to make money. So if they give the craft bag away for free, they have to replace it with something just as compelling, or a lot of people would cancel their subs. But we all know what would happen. There'd be threads with people asking for this new thing to be free.

So, if you want the craft bag to be free, what's your solution to this?

I'd personally do a new craft bag that is more limited so that the one we have now can continue to be a draw. Enough space so they could get their write done or new players wouldn't have to monitor their materials but not unlimited amounts like the paid version.

I'd make the middle tier of the battle pass and ESO+ bonus and make a Premium+ tier where ESO+ subscribers who have upgraded to the 30 battle pass also get something cool each month. ESO+ subscribers could also get an exclusive cosmetics each month like maybe hair styles or costumes, outside of only the statuettes and paintings in that Premium+ pass tier.

AzuraFan · January 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'd personally do a new craft bag that is more limited so that the one we have now can continue to be a draw. Enough space so they could get their write done or new players wouldn't have to monitor their materials but not unlimited amounts like the paid version.

That's been suggested before and it could work. The problem would be finding the sweet spot. You have to provide enough slots so that some of the frustration of inventory management is eased, but not so many that the craft bag isn't significantly better than the freebie version. It's a tricky thing to do. If the watered-down craft bag is enough for a decently large segment of the playerbase, then those that primarily subscribe for the craft bag might cancel. If it's not enough, then you'll still have people asking to get it for free.

I'd make the middle tier of the battle pass and ESO+ bonus and make a Premium+ tier where ESO+ subscribers who have upgraded to the 30 battle pass also get something cool each month. ESO+ subscribers could also get an exclusive cosmetics each month like maybe hair styles or costumes, outside of only the statuettes and paintings in that Premium+ pass tier.

What you've basically suggested is adding more cosmetics (some of which people have to earn from the tomes) and other shinies that we're already drowning in. That would not entice me to stay subscribed if they removed the craft bag. The craft bag works because it enhances the entire gaming experience. I already have too many non-combat pets, paintings, mounts, skins, costumes, etc. I could easily play the game without more. I doubt this would work to keep most people subscribed.

SneaK · January 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Okay, I can see that, but I think it's probably a combination of the two. You need to retain players and attract new ones. We're losing a lot of older players because of the last few years. I've already said that some new players probably leave because of inventory frustration.

But let's say I accept your point fully, that the population is bleeding because a significant number of new players leave because they don't have the craft bag. What would you replace the craft bag with in the ESO+ sub that would significantly enhance the gaming experience, and why wouldn't you then argue that we need to give it to everyone for free?

I ask this (here and before) because I know that ZOS has engineered stuff so that people want/need the craft bag. I don't like it either. But I know ZOS needs to make money. So if they give the craft bag away for free, they have to replace it with something just as compelling, or a lot of people would cancel their subs. But we all know what would happen. There'd be threads with people asking for this new thing to be free.

So, if you want the craft bag to be free, what's your solution to this?

I'd personally do a new craft bag that is more limited so that the one we have now can continue to be a draw. Enough space so they could get their write done or new players wouldn't have to monitor their materials but not unlimited amounts like the paid version.

I'd make the middle tier of the battle pass and ESO+ bonus and make a Premium+ tier where ESO+ subscribers who have upgraded to the 30 battle pass also get something cool each month. ESO+ subscribers could also get an exclusive cosmetics each month like maybe hair styles or costumes, outside of only the statuettes and paintings in that Premium+ pass tier.

I don’t think in-game inventory should be tied to real life currency at all.

Give plus: crowns, cosmetics, free wayshrines, free style changes, free tokens whatever, not inventory. And sell season passes for crowns - that alone would get people to do plus.

AzuraFan · January 16

SneaK wrote: »

And sell season passes for crowns - that alone would get people to do plus.

Not me. The season passes, meaning the tomes, are just cosmetics and such. And you have to work for the rewards. You can earn trade bars, but that'll just let you buy more cosmetics and such. No way would that replace the craft bag in terms of the value of the subscription.

BXR_Lonestar · January 16

SilverBride wrote: »

There isn't a mandatory subscription to play ESO. They have to get revenue from somewhere to keep the lights on. Having useful and desirable perks included with an optional subscription is one way to generate this revenue. This should not be changed.

Yes. With more content being migrated to be available to everyone, what exactly does plus get us if not the craftbag?

spartaxoxo · January 16

SneaK wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Okay, I can see that, but I think it's probably a combination of the two. You need to retain players and attract new ones. We're losing a lot of older players because of the last few years. I've already said that some new players probably leave because of inventory frustration.

But let's say I accept your point fully, that the population is bleeding because a significant number of new players leave because they don't have the craft bag. What would you replace the craft bag with in the ESO+ sub that would significantly enhance the gaming experience, and why wouldn't you then argue that we need to give it to everyone for free?

I ask this (here and before) because I know that ZOS has engineered stuff so that people want/need the craft bag. I don't like it either. But I know ZOS needs to make money. So if they give the craft bag away for free, they have to replace it with something just as compelling, or a lot of people would cancel their subs. But we all know what would happen. There'd be threads with people asking for this new thing to be free.

So, if you want the craft bag to be free, what's your solution to this?

I'd personally do a new craft bag that is more limited so that the one we have now can continue to be a draw. Enough space so they could get their write done or new players wouldn't have to monitor their materials but not unlimited amounts like the paid version.

I'd make the middle tier of the battle pass and ESO+ bonus and make a Premium+ tier where ESO+ subscribers who have upgraded to the 30 battle pass also get something cool each month. ESO+ subscribers could also get an exclusive cosmetics each month like maybe hair styles or costumes, outside of only the statuettes and paintings in that Premium+ pass tier.

I don’t think in-game inventory should be tied to real life currency at all.

Give plus: crowns, cosmetics, free wayshrines, free style changes, free tokens whatever, not inventory. And sell season passes for crowns - that alone would get people to do plus.

Better to tie exclusive rewards to the reward track if you're buying both so that people who most fund the game don't feel ripped off and people who aren't at the tier but can afford to be will be tempted to do so.

AzuraFan wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

And sell season passes for crowns - that alone would get people to do plus.

Not me. The season passes, meaning the tomes, are just cosmetics and such. And you have to work for the rewards. You can earn trade bars, but that'll just let you buy more cosmetics and such. No way would that replace the craft bag in terms of the value of the subscription.

Sure. It won't be everyone. But many games are on that model, including some of the most lucrative ones, because it's a highly successful one. Fashion is big business in the real world too, even if some people are fine just picking up whatever clothes at a big box store. Did you sell all the people that felt the game just got more expensive despite new content being free? It's a lot of people that will want all of those cosmetics.

AzuraFan · January 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sure. It won't be everyone. But many games are on that model, including some of the most lucrative ones, because it's a highly successful one. Fashion is big business in the real world too, even if some people are fine just picking up whatever clothes at a big box store. Did you sell all the people that felt the game just got more expensive despite new content being free? It's a lot of people that will want all of those cosmetics.

I guess we'd have to see. I wouldn't risk the subscription model by doing that, but I could be atypical when I say that I'm already drowning in mounts and cosmetics and such and wouldn't remain subscribed to get more, when something super-valuable is removed. But maybe it would bring in a bunch of new subscribers.

As an aside, I have so many non-combat pets that I decided to change the one I'm using pretty much daily, to experience them all. I started this a couple of months ago and I still haven't finished lol. Getting close, but probably a few weeks left. That's how many I've got. Same with costumes, skins, mounts, etc. Not as many as pets, but enough. So I certainly wouldn't pay a monthly fee for more. But like I said, I could be atypical in that respect.

AScarlato · January 16

AzuraFan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sure. It won't be everyone. But many games are on that model, including some of the most lucrative ones, because it's a highly successful one. Fashion is big business in the real world too, even if some people are fine just picking up whatever clothes at a big box store. Did you sell all the people that felt the game just got more expensive despite new content being free? It's a lot of people that will want all of those cosmetics.

I guess we'd have to see. I wouldn't risk the subscription model by doing that, but I could be atypical when I say that I'm already drowning in mounts and cosmetics and such and wouldn't remain subscribed to get more, when something super-valuable is removed. But maybe it would bring in a bunch of new subscribers.

As an aside, I have so many non-combat pets that I decided to change the one I'm using pretty much daily, to experience them all. I started this a couple of months ago and I still haven't finished lol. Getting close, but probably a few weeks left. That's how many I've got. Same with costumes, skins, mounts, etc. Not as many as pets, but enough. So I certainly wouldn't pay a monthly fee for more. But like I said, I could be atypical in that respect.

This is how I feel as well, but instead of talking about the sub it's about buying the Battle Pass as opposed to a chapter. I have zero interest in the very specific cosmetics being shown for Chapter 0, so that's just lost revenue compared to selling me a Chapter.

As far as pets I do like collecting all the random cats. I feel as though I have about 20 of them now.

Pevey · January 16

The premium battle pass tiers also come with more trade bars, allowing you to get whatever you want from the Gold Coast Bazaar. We don't know yet exactly what they will look like in terms of numbers, so I know it's impossible for you to say if that might increase the value of the pass enough to be worth it for you.

Personally, I really hope the battle pass works out well for ZOS. It would allow them to get rid of the much more toxic forms of monetization that plague this game.

AzuraFan · January 16

Pevey wrote: »

The premium battle pass tiers also come with more trade bars, allowing you to get whatever you want from the Gold Coast Bazaar. We don't know yet exactly what they will look like in terms of numbers, so I know it's impossible for you to say if that might increase the value of the pass enough to be worth it for you.

I doubt there will be anything in the Gold Coast Bazaar on par with the craft bag. That's what we're talking about here. Removing the craft bag from ESO+ and replacing it with something else. For me, the craft bag is essential for convenience. Removing it from the sub and replacing it with an in-game currency that I can spend on fluff items I don't really need would not increase the value of the pass enough for me to remain subscribed.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 16

I outright refuse to pay a subscription on top of everything else in the crown store when I used to pay $15/mo and have none of this crap... But I've been thinking on this for a couple days and I'd concede on a free crafting bag if they at least tied ESO+ benefits to the premium battlepass for the duration of the battlepass. Make it an additional monetization avenue that Zenimax Online could reasonably expect on a regular basis from players, as long as the contents of the battlepass remain good.

1.) ESO+ remains as is, $15/mo, perks plus 1500 crowns monthly
2.) Premium battlepass sold every quarter for $30 with ESO+ perks, no access to DLCs and no crowns.

That being said I still think everyone should get double the bank space and maybe a stack's worth of materials in a crafting bag just to alleviate the inventory management for players.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 16

I like this ^ idea better than paying a subscription because it's contingent on the battlepass being worthwhile. You could argue it's still a subscription in another form, but there's no automatic payment, and players would have to actively purchase the battlepass after evaluating its contents.

That's the way buy2play games like Guild Wars 1 used to be. You only bought the content you wanted, and it had to be good for the company to extract money out of you.

Desiato · January 16

I think it goes deeper than the Craft Bag.

There are likely dozens if not hundreds of practically redundant items in the game because the role they play is so small.

For example:

- we don't need so many potency runes between levels 1 and CP 160
- the same applies to Alchemy solvents
- the same applies to blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking base mats
- style materials -- add very little value
- revamp all gift boxes so they do not create an inventory crisis -- imagine b2p players actually having fun during an event!!

ZOS should immediately start an effort to optimize itemization in ESO. It's an actual disaster.

AScarlato · January 16

Desiato wrote: »

I think it goes deeper than the Craft Bag.

There are likely dozens if not hundreds of practically redundant items in the game because the role they play is so small.

For example:

- we don't need so many potency runes between levels 1 and CP 160
- the same applies to Alchemy solvents
- the same applies to blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking base mats
- style materials -- add very little value
- revamp all gift boxes so they do not create an inventory crisis -- imagine b2p players actually having fun during an event!!

ZOS should immediately start an effort to optimize itemization in ESO. It's an actual disaster.

My only issue with this is I actually enjoy all the weird odds and ends they created for world building. It's far more interesting than if it was just "wood", "metal", etc.

But, I'd happily do without if it meant not needing the craft bag as often. It would just be a loss world-building wise.

Pevey · January 16

AzuraFan wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The premium battle pass tiers also come with more trade bars, allowing you to get whatever you want from the Gold Coast Bazaar. We don't know yet exactly what they will look like in terms of numbers, so I know it's impossible for you to say if that might increase the value of the pass enough to be worth it for you.

I doubt there will be anything in the Gold Coast Bazaar on par with the craft bag. That's what we're talking about here. Removing the craft bag from ESO+ and replacing it with something else. For me, the craft bag is essential for convenience. Removing it from the sub and replacing it with an in-game currency that I can spend on fluff items I don't really need would not increase the value of the pass enough for me to remain subscribed.

I don't agree that people have to perceive the value as equivalent. It's about how much revenue in total ZOS gets from it. The ESO population is tiny. This game should be huge. A certain percentage of players will buy the battle pass. No one knows yet what the percentage will be. The more players, the bigger the total haul from the pass.

The craftbag is a fundametally different monetization model. You design something in a way that intentionally creates annoyance and then sell relief from that annoyance. Some percent of people will buy it. But the key difference from above is the some percentage of people will solve the problem in a different way... by just leaving the game. And leaving terrible reviews and recommending it to no one. That is where ESO is today. You may think it is unfairly deserved (I don't), but objectively it is known as having egregious monetization practices.

Not everyone will see value in the battle pass, and those who do will possibly not overlap much with those who see value in ESO Plus. The battle pass is not going to be equivalent to the pain relief value for many players. But that doesn't really matter. They are fundamentally different models. The craft bag keeps the player base tiny but mostly paying. Battle pass systems are opt in and let the player base grow naturally without intentionally trying to annoy them. And other companies have had much more success with them.

Think how much money someone might spend on crate packs trying to get a mount or something they want. With a paid battle pass, there will be no RNG and no time limit. It doesn't feel as bad as paying for a company to stop annoying me on purpose.

I think the game will run into trouble if it tries to do both for very long. One monetization form (craft bag) will have a direct and detrimental effect on the other.

SilverBride · January 16

Pevey wrote: »

Not everyone will see value in the battle pass...

I certainly don't. I have next to zero interest in cosmetics, especially if they are loud, bright and flashy which seems to be the trend now.

freespirit · January 16

SilverBride wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Not everyone will see value in the battle pass...

I certainly don't. I have next to zero interest in cosmetics, especially if they are loud, bright and flashy which seems to be the trend now.

I 100% agree!!

Problem is I did a bit of digging and on one of the Battle Pass pages with the list of rewards, at the end of the list on the base level it says "and furnishings".

So if furnishings qualify as rewards(so therefore are considered cosmetics) for the free level, I suspect they may also appear in the other levels too at some point!

That would likely cause me problems!!

SilverBride · January 16

freespirit wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Not everyone will see value in the battle pass...

I certainly don't. I have next to zero interest in cosmetics, especially if they are loud, bright and flashy which seems to be the trend now.

I 100% agree!!

Problem is I did a bit of digging and on one of the Battle Pass pages with the list of rewards, at the end of the list on the base level it says "and furnishings".

So if furnishings qualify as rewards(so therefore are considered cosmetics) for the free level, I suspect they may also appear in the other levels too at some point!

That would likely cause me problems!!

But what kind of furnishings? If it's anything like the junk they often fill the "luxury" furniture merchant with I won't be missing out on much.

Techwolf_Lupindo · January 16

The one thing missing in ESO+ is double public guild trader selling slots. The game dumps all this crafting mats and limits us to 30 slots per day. I get a lot more then 30 salable stuff per day doing a few dungeons or quests.

Heck, one could argue for double guild slots for ESO+ , as the current 5 is limiting when looking for active guilds with active guild activities. Most guilds only have one or two per week due to the 500 person limit.

AzuraFan · January 16

Pevey wrote: »

I don't agree that people have to perceive the value as equivalent. It's about how much revenue in total ZOS gets from it. The ESO population is tiny. This game should be huge. A certain percentage of players will buy the battle pass. No one knows yet what the percentage will be. The more players, the bigger the total haul from the pass.

...

I think we're talking about different things. I'm talking from the perspective of an ESO+ subscriber, not as someone who wants to increase the population. Of course, I want the population to increase! But in this thread, all I'm saying is that if ZOS removed the craft bag from ESO+, I would cancel my sub. And if they removed the craft bag from ESO+ and added in the battlepass instead, I'd still cancel my sub. Because for my enjoyment of the game, the craft bag is way more important than the battlepass. So for me, as an individual ESO+ subscriber, replacing the craft bag with the battlepass in the sub would not retain me. I don't see them as equivalent value. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to solve the game's problems or create a new monetization model. I'm just responding to the suggestion that the craft bag be removed from ESO+ and replaced with the battlepass, and that will retain subscribers. Perhaps it would attract a whole bunch of new subscribers. I don't know. I was just responding from my own perspective as to what I'd do, i.e. cancel ESO+.

zaria · January 16

Tandor wrote: »

The reason this never used to arise is because it was accepted that you paid a monthly subscription when you played a live service game, but when people decided they didn't want to do that and took "Free to Play" literally it was obvious that alternative funding arrangements had to be put in place with an incentive offered to those who could still subscribe if they wanted to (as that is a more secure funding source for developers and their backers).

That incentive might be extra character slots, inventory slots, bank slots etc as well as more cosmetic things like costumes. ZOS came up with the crafting bag as well, and simply to give it to everyone freely now would risk driving away those who have subbed for many years and who would feel betrayed. The lost revenue would in any event then have to be made up in other ways, or extra incentives offered to subscribers to replace the crafting bag, and we'd be back to Square One with people complaining that those extra incentives should be given to them freely as well.

I hope and believe that this suggestion will never happen, but at the very least those who promote it ought to support their argument with some better funding alternative beyond just "the game is monetised enough already".

Yes, I remember main reason to quit ESO after an year was the inventory minigame. who was 25-40% of playtime.
As I was at endgame i wanted to store stuff who i might need but had no idea that to store, easiest solution was just to stop playing, and yes that is an problem then I came back a year later i had ESO+,
Another option is +25% higher dps for ESO+ members

and obviously better protection.
Mayhem is coming up

AlexanderDeLarge · January 16

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

The one thing missing in ESO+ is double public guild trader selling slots. The game dumps all this crafting mats and limits us to 30 slots per day. I get a lot more then 30 salable stuff per day doing a few dungeons or quests.

Heck, one could argue for double guild slots for ESO+ , as the current 5 is limiting when looking for active guilds with active guild activities. Most guilds only have one or two per week due to the 500 person limit.

Please god no. The ESO+ subscription is pay2win enough as it is.