PTS Update 49 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

MincMincMinc · January 13

Offbalance on dizzy should be removed (I am a 10 year dizzy swing pvp veteran so believe me when I say you should change the skill)

For the sake of keeping combat fair, the new animations look good and feel great to play especially for dizzy swing. HOWEVER, the problem is that in combat the most important thing is clarity of what is happening to my character and enemy characters. OFFBALANCE does not have clear telegraphs or animations giving proper time to understand and play/counterplay around for both parties.

As the offender I honestly cant tell what enemies in a zerg have immunity, cooldown, or even have offbalance on them. Because it is so unclear usually in 1vX it is easier to rely on just running around and stall tanking to be sure someone is not on immunity cooldown......stall tanking every fight is boring and tedious for both people involved.

As a defender I cannot see the offbalance animations for the debuff on my character. The little gray swirl animations are masked by the fancy skill animations the game has. Not to mention the hundreds of random proc animations going on in real combat.

Exploit wise, offbalance can trigger off of medium attacks, when it SHOULD trigger off of "fully charged Heavy attacks". The exploitive part of medium attacks is that i can hold a light attack for 0.001s longer to trigger it without any sort of telegraph for the enemy to respond to and block/dodge. This allows me to guarantee the enemy cant counterplay the stun and whatever skill or ult I throw at them. On live I and many others use offbalance because it guarantees merciless resolve or dawnbreaker combos for free kills.

If anything make 3 consecutive dizzy hits get crystal frags like proc which does a longer cast fancy stun animation on the target. Something more telegraphed that both parties can see happening and play around. (or save this idea for a rework of crystal weapon)

Radiate77 · January 13

I don’t agree that Off-Balance should leave Dizzying Swing, if anything, we need more combat mechanics like Off-Balance that reward active play.

Medium-weave interaction is the best part of it.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Radiate77 wrote: »

I don’t agree that Off-Balance should leave Dizzying Swing, if anything, we need more combat mechanics like Off-Balance that reward active play.

Medium-weave interaction is the best part of it.

It'd be fine if there were clear animation telegraphs, but there aren't. Again I've used dizzy since IC. The game would be far healthier if CCs were clearly conveyed in combat.

Hard to say its active play, half the time I use offbalance on a target in bgs one of my teamates randomly activates the stun. Cant exactly say they were being active and purposefully doing that. Not to mention we circle back around to there being no clear telegraph. I could do offbalance and then a random teamate 28m away does a medium weave with no animation and triggers offbalance on the enemy.

Medium weave is the best part because its the most abusable part of it (of which I abuse the most). Its kinda funny because zos removed the knockup from dizzy because they didnt want a strong stun to happen in the same gcd as a strong hit............Then they made offbalance trigger off medium attacks allowing a powerful stun to happen in the same gcd guaranteeing ultimates and procs like merciless resolve which do 2x the damage as dizzy.

The debuff and followup stun are a good idea, just how zos implemented it has some design holes that are abusable

Alaztor91 · January 13

Overall, I like the new 2H Animations, especially the new sound and weight that they have, but I must say that I find the new weapon trail effects far too pronounced. Hopefully those can be toned down a bit.

BattleAxe · January 14

MXVIIDREAM wrote: »

Kaltivael wrote: »

We have had the same subclassing meta since its release, please tell me we are getting more class skill line balance changes other than DK. It is wild how long ZOS have let this stagnant meta ruin the game.

Yes it looks like one class approximately every 3 months

It’s possible we will see more classes done in future pts cycles dk need to most rework so it might speed up after this round of pts rework. They could even perhaps squeeze in a second class closer to end of this cycle once they dial the dk rework in more

Tannus15 · January 14

I like the 2h animation changes, but I think it's a massive missed opportunity to not actually look at the passives and make it a more viable front bar weapon.

Followup and Battlerush are not good passives and could really use some love.

Freelancer_ESO · January 14

Feedback on the Two Handed Visual/Sound Changes:

It feels like the visuals and sound align better with the more blade slanted weapons than the more blunt weapons.

Way down the road, it might be worth considering spinning the blunt weapons out of the dual wielding and two handed lines as at this point the animations aren't really a great fit for either.

The attacks do definitely feel more impactful but, I would note they feel more like Black Desert Online than Elder Scrolls Online.

Faulgor · January 14

Just want to throw in my voice on the pile of "the new 2h effects are awesome but too colorful".

We already have several skill styles to make these orange or red, there's no reason to make these default. They should keep their white/grey/transparent-ish movement trails from Live.

zequaggaub17_ESO · January 14

in the description for reverse slash and morphs, it says: “ Spin around and strike an enemy down”—there no longer seems to be any spinning? it’s funny to see other 2H abilities get much punchier, while reverse slash founders.. anyway i will be sad if my zerith-var no longer twirls around for my amusement. (also not fun for people to have it become an uncancellable animation, if they’ve been using it that way.)

Estin · January 14

I very much dislike 2h backbar in PvE due to stampede being buggy by preventing bar swapping for an entire GCD after it ends unless you are moving (it's the reason why people auto walk into an ankle high barrier when parsing with 2h). I was hoping for the animation rework for this skill would fix that bug, but was disappointed to see that was not the case and that it still persists. Is there any chance for this bug to be fixed?

Chibicosmos · January 15

Why not leave Standard of Might alone and simply give shifting standard the rework? Same applies to new Eruption. Instead of taking away damage, rework a morph rarely used.

Some of these names feel clumsy or unnecessarily changed. I understand when the core of the skill changes function but some don't need it. Or at the very least, simplify it. Such as calling it Green Dragon Blood and Elder Dragon Blood, Engulfing Breath and Soul Flame.

Unrelenting Chains/Devastating Chains
Protect the Brood could be Wing Shield or Protective Scales and Fleetstep Wing could be Gale/Swift Wings

Avalanche reminds me too much of Warden. Maybe rock slide or rock fall
Leave Battle Roar Mountains Blessing and Cinder storm/eruption as is tbh

MaîtresseFanny · January 15

The new animation of flame ability looks great but the other DK skill lines are really disapointing.
You never know how to find a balance when you make a rework.
Ok, great work on refreshing flame abilities, but do you have to put fire everywhere ?
Fire animation is good on flame skill line but why make all the other lines looks like it ? The diversity of animation make DK looks great like this fantastic dragon blood with the heart beating in a shadowy shape it absolutely great !! Why change that into such crap ?
The spikes looks absolutely terrible, and huge amount of the players would agree to that. It looks like a stupid turtle bagpack.
It seems like you did a good animation rework with flame, and you were lazy to truely rework each unique skill lines so you copied ans paste this to the others skill lines instead or giving them a true identity each.
Why not keep the spikes and dragon blood as it is, so players wont bé disapointed, but just rework the textures.
Pitty tell me that this heart above the head is a bug...

This was the négative points (in my opinion), the rest of the maj seems good so far (exept the increase of price, pay for 3 tomes a year with eso+ is a joke). I Will update opinions on other threads step by step.

Radiate77 · January 15

Chibicosmos wrote: »

Why not leave Standard of Might alone and simply give shifting standard the rework?

Shifting was rarely used in PvE because Standard of Might was significantly better, and overperforming.

Now the damage Standard, Shifting, is comparable to other AoE ultimates, and still pulls out ahead. Except you also have Take Flight and Corrosive for PvE DPS now too.

What you guys echoing Skinny fail to understand, is that Standard is the only source of Major Defile in PvP that can not be purged, and you guys might not understand the value in that for group PvP.

You’re suggesting the removal of a skill for which we can not replace. While you guys can throw on Atronach, or any other AoE damage ultimate and replicate Standard of Might.

Just because you haven’t seen a weaker morph for PvE in PvE, does not mean that we have not been using Shifting Standard in PvP this whole time and once again, this reads as a PvE vs PvP issue, where PvE only players want their cake and to eat it too.

Truly exhausting.

iyx · January 15

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Going back to the effects added to the 2H animations.

I think I figured out what makes it look really awkward. They're way too much.

I get that the team's current goal is to make attacks have flashy effects. I can mostly get behind that... when it comes to Class skills. However, the weapon skills should probably stay mostly subdued - that will help the Class skills really stand out and avoid too much visual noise.

Consider the difference between the effects of Carve:
Live:

PTS:

The live one has a smaller swipe animation, as opposed to the PTS version which is hugely in-your-face. The other major issue here is that the live version's trail matches the weapon movement, while the PTS version gives the whole swipe even before the weapon's made it over to that side. I can even see the old version of the swipe inside all of that, but it's completely drowned out by that obnoxious orange ring.

I would like to see the weapon trials toned back down to the level we have on live, and to follow the weapon instead of just this ring that pops up instantly.

Also, regarding Smash: now that we have very flashy effects on everything, Smash (without a real trail) seriously looks wrong in comparison. And please remove that cast time there.

The new effect looks terribly over-the-top, my eyes are already hurting just imagining how it will overlap with other over-the-top effects in battle.

Djiku · January 15

The reworked 2 handed Skill line looks very good. What I would really like to see is a better hit feedback. Whenever you hit an enmy, no matter what skill you use, you barely feel like you hit them, There is no real reaction of the mob that it got hit. This really needs to change in order for combat to feel good.

TankHealz2015 · January 15

If only both standards were moveable.
1 AoE damage and defile
2 AoE buffs and protection

?

xxdabro90xxb16_ESO · January 15

I Love most of the new Two Handed Animations. Only one Thing bothers me: All the Animations are kinda Orange, But Rally is pure Red. Would fit better if it had the orange Color as well.

MincMincMinc · January 15

iyx wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Going back to the effects added to the 2H animations.

I think I figured out what makes it look really awkward. They're way too much.

I get that the team's current goal is to make attacks have flashy effects. I can mostly get behind that... when it comes to Class skills. However, the weapon skills should probably stay mostly subdued - that will help the Class skills really stand out and avoid too much visual noise.

Consider the difference between the effects of Carve:
Live:

PTS:

The live one has a smaller swipe animation, as opposed to the PTS version which is hugely in-your-face. The other major issue here is that the live version's trail matches the weapon movement, while the PTS version gives the whole swipe even before the weapon's made it over to that side. I can even see the old version of the swipe inside all of that, but it's completely drowned out by that obnoxious orange ring.

I would like to see the weapon trials toned back down to the level we have on live, and to follow the weapon instead of just this ring that pops up instantly.

Also, regarding Smash: now that we have very flashy effects on everything, Smash (without a real trail) seriously looks wrong in comparison. And please remove that cast time there.

The new effect looks terribly over-the-top, my eyes are already hurting just imagining how it will overlap with other over-the-top effects in battle.

My point exactly. If we made every animation over the top we wont be able to see ACTUAL important things in combat like ultimates or CC effects

How many CC's a year do we see people complain about how they are not telegraphed?

spartan62893_ESO · 12:48AM

I'll join the voices saying the FX for the new two-handed abilities is too much. They're too flashy and in your face, especially compared to how subdued the old FX where.The focus should be on the new animations, which I think are excellent, since these are martial weapon abilities without any magic.

As far as the new animations go, I love them. My only criticism is that they feel too made for swords., they're too quick and snappy for things like axes and mauls. It's not as egregious as one hand and shield's puncture skill though.

Waillyam23 · 9:51AM

I love the new FX for the two-handed abilities, the biggest point is to be able to see the range affected by carve !

@ZOS_Kevin Why the range of carve is still 6m when the melee range of basic attacks and skills has been increased from 5m to 7m ? This leads to situations where you can hit someone in melee but fail to hit carve and waste a gcd. Similar for deadly cloak which is only 5m.

@iyx Is it possible to have a comparison between the FX brightness when the skills are cast by self or other ? (usually the FX are tuned down when the skill is cast by another person to reduce visual clutter, but I'd like to confirm that)

Al_Ex_Andre · 10:43AM

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class changes coming in Update 49. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes. We have a separete thread specifically for Dragonknight due to the number of changes being made. You can find that link here.

For context regarding timeline for changes, stats or number changes for skills are changes we can make within the PTS cycle. If the changes or suggestions require more technical changes, we will take those to the combat team and changes can be made sometime after U49 release.

Hi there,

so if I am not mistaken, thread is for feedback for class changes coming after Update 49, too? Right?
@ZOS_Kevin ?

If so, I would like to add a feedback I didn't share with the team in the latest surveys yet (last one being in twitch).

This is about the templar.

I think magtemplar are always going to be inferior dd compared to stamtemplar by design choice, and I think this is a wrong design choice.

Why? Because you choose a race, and then a class, and the balance should be identical whatever the race you choose!

But the argument is: mag races make the best healers!
This is true! But what do you do when you play a mag dd exclusively? You are toasted.

But then again, if you choose to play a stam race, you are the worst healer of the pack, so magplar dd needs to be inferior to your stamplar...

I have a solution.

Make stamplars the best templar tanks. With tank skills and morphs, with stamina costs all over the board.
And now you can make dd magplars skills and morphs = dd stamplars skills and morphs.

Magplars should not be only about healing, in short. In every mmo this is the same mistake. In wow classic, paladins were healers in raids. Wrong design choice. It was corrected thereafter.

Magplars were once true dd though in ESO. They were nerfed. So maybie mag jabs could then now be reverted to its former glory to begin with? The speed of the old jabs is lacking now.

SO this is the main point I wanted to share. Maybie also make Templars the offensive healers, they can be healbots for sure, but it lacks offense in there, and even more true with the new beam that templar healers don't choose now, too weak now.

And I want a SHIELD as a last wish for the templar. Old Jabs while carrying a SHIELD. This would be wonderful for a templar...

NB: as a final note, how do u do that? practically you can combine both actual dd mag and stam morph into one, these consume magicka OR stamina (best of the two!), and for the morph that does disappear, we should create a new one useful for tanks (consuming stamina). The healing skills can stay for consuming magicka only. So... yes..., the trick is feasable...

NB2: I know devs are on a streak to nerf self-healing from jabs (as recently noticed, 40% became 25% against solo targets). Please consider to stop the nerf, this is on spot with the templar yet, please leave it as it, or so I think (I am not a dev, but if nerfed further, this would hurt my gameplay on so many levels please have a serious braingeyser before any change

).

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE