Solo Dungeons will Kill the MMO.

JustLovely · January 12

Orbital78 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Solo dungeons in any capacity is a horrible idea for any MMO.

People who are afraid to group just need to dive in and do it. It won't always work out how you like, but that's life. Sometimes it turns out great and you make a new friend.

I think you're missing the point, some people want to take the dungeons slow, roleplay, etc the first quest through. I think it is healthy to give it as an option.

That is hard in a group setting when half want to speed run. Groups will likely default more to speed runs when everyone has the option to get their skill point solo... Eventually once all dungeons have the option.

Story mode is already an option. Just group with 3 friends and go the the dungeon of your choice and spend as much time there doing whatever you like. I'm pretty sure you could even do one friend and two companions and make it work, or just go in by yourself and solo the dungeon.

JustLovely · January 12

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Solo dungeons are a horrible idea. The group finder is already struggling and this will likely make it flounder way more than it already does. "story mode" is for single player games that don't require skills or understanding.

ESO is an MMO and this change just makes it look like ZOS is transitioning it's MMO to a single player game.

Historically Elder Scrolls is a single player game... I see things like this as just taking ESO back to the series roots.

ESO is an MMO. That means the focus should be on group content before solo play. Sure, ESO is an elder scrolls THEMED game, but it's not the next installment of elder scrolls after skyrim. It's an MMO. There are so many solo games out there to choose from pushing solo only content in an MMO will lead to a decline in population and make it much harder for people to form groups for the group content.

Even Brad McQuaid said that The first M didn't mean forced grouping it always has meant a massive shared environment...and if everyone who played this game like it's Skyrim with friends were to leave then it would be desolate indeed.

There is room for all of us the Story mode casual and the hyper competitive player...matter of fact playing the Dungeons solo may actually entice people to try it with a group

....you never know

Why not just go play through Skyrim again? Or some other solo game? Why insist they implement game modes that will hurt the game overall.

SilverBride · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

Story mode is already an option. Just group with 3 friends and go the the dungeon of your choice and spend as much time there doing whatever you like. I'm pretty sure you could even do one friend and two companions and make it work, or just go in by yourself and solo the dungeon.

Or just go into a Story Mode dungeon in our own time and our own way, without having to coordinate with 3 other players, or take a character that is strong enough to solo a dungeon, and enjoy the story, because WHY NOT?

JustLovely · January 12

SilverBride wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Story mode is already an option. Just group with 3 friends and go the the dungeon of your choice and spend as much time there doing whatever you like. I'm pretty sure you could even do one friend and two companions and make it work, or just go in by yourself and solo the dungeon.

Or just go into a Story Mode dungeon in our own time and our own way, without having to coordinate with 3 other players, or take a character that is strong enough to solo a dungeon, and enjoy the story, because WHY NOT?

Because ESO is an MMO that should encourage grouping. That's why.

Why do so many people come to ESO and insist it be a different game than it was designed to be? If you don't like ESO there are tons of solo games out there to choose from, most games are for solo players.

spartaxoxo · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Story mode is already an option. Just group with 3 friends and go the the dungeon of your choice and spend as much time there doing whatever you like. I'm pretty sure you could even do one friend and two companions and make it work, or just go in by yourself and solo the dungeon.

Or just go into a Story Mode dungeon in our own time and our own way, without having to coordinate with 3 other players, or take a character that is strong enough to solo a dungeon, and enjoy the story, because WHY NOT?

Because ESO is an MMO that should encourage grouping. That's why.

Why do so many people come to ESO and insist it be a different game than it was designed to be? If you don't like ESO there are tons of solo games out there to choose from, most games are for solo players.

Live service games are supposed to change. They're a constant dialogue between player and the dev teams. It's a big part of what makes so many people enjoy them.

Solo modes for dungeons is found in other MMOs. People wanting an MMO feature in an MMO that doesn't have it is pretty standard. Other people are a detriment to hearing NPCs yap but a boon to farming stuff in dungeons. So multiple MMOs separate the two activities. This one doing the same is not different.

Nobody really needs to be able to force someone else to skip a quest or talk over Fennorian.

SilverBride · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

Because ESO is an MMO that should encourage grouping. That's why.

Why do so many people come to ESO and insist it be a different game than it was designed to be? If you don't like ESO there are tons of solo games out there to choose from, most games are for solo players.

MMO does not mean grouping. It ONLY means that there are multiple players in the game world at the same time. Some players choose to group with others and others don't, and both are acceptable ways to play.

Why should those that prefer to play solo for some or all of their play time, have to choose single player games and give up the social aspects of an MMO? I do some group content but most of the time I'm running around on my own questing or decorating my houses, etc., but I enjoy chatting with my friends while I do so. There are also guild contests and other such activities players can take part in that involve other players but don't require being in a group for them.

Real life is the same way. When I go to the grocery store there are many others there shopping too but we don't feel the need to group up to buy produce.

SeaGtGruff · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Solo dungeons are a horrible idea. The group finder is already struggling and this will likely make it flounder way more than it already does. "story mode" is for single player games that don't require skills or understanding.

ESO is an MMO and this change just makes it look like ZOS is transitioning it's MMO to a single player game.

Historically Elder Scrolls is a single player game... I see things like this as just taking ESO back to the series roots.

ESO is an MMO. That means the focus should be on group content before solo play. Sure, ESO is an elder scrolls THEMED game, but it's not the next installment of elder scrolls after skyrim. It's an MMO. There are so many solo games out there to choose from pushing solo only content in an MMO will lead to a decline in population and make it much harder for people to form groups for the group content.

Even Brad McQuaid said that The first M didn't mean forced grouping it always has meant a massive shared environment...and if everyone who played this game like it's Skyrim with friends were to leave then it would be desolate indeed.

There is room for all of us the Story mode casual and the hyper competitive player...matter of fact playing the Dungeons solo may actually entice people to try it with a group

....you never know

Why not just go play through Skyrim again? Or some other solo game? Why insist they implement game modes that will hurt the game overall.

Skyrim isn't ESO. For that matter, Skyrim isn't Oblivion, or Morrowind, or Redguard, or Battlespire, or Daggerfall, or Arena. Why would anyone want to go play through Skyrim again if Skyrim isn't the Elder Scrolls game they want to play? I still actively play Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion, despite also playing ESO every single day. I don't think I've touched Skyrim in over a year-- haven't even installed it on my new computer or gaming laptop after my previous computer died-- although I enjoy it and will undoubtedly play through it again eventually. But I'm not going to go play Skyrim when ESO is what I want to play, or go play Oblivion when Daggerfall is what I want to play, etc. Playing any one of the single-player Elder Scrolls games shouldn't preclude the privilege of being "graciously allowed" to play ESO and play it the way that I want to.

Lumsdenml · January 12

zombievalen wrote: »

Today, this MMO is special; people play it as "Syrim Online." The community isn't toxic—in fact, it's great—but most are against raids and co-op.
It's incredible that an MMO community celebrates playing dungeons solo when you can play them in any offline game.
I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more, and not just instance them alone... that's the essence of every MMO (like WoW, FF, etc.).
If they implement solo dungeons, random dungeons will disappear and the essence of the MMO as well.

I think solo dungeons are fine as long as you can't get exactly what you can get from the vet version, like a monster helm. Keep rewards different, but less desirable/ powerful than the vet version.

Warhawke_80 · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Solo dungeons are a horrible idea. The group finder is already struggling and this will likely make it flounder way more than it already does. "story mode" is for single player games that don't require skills or understanding.

ESO is an MMO and this change just makes it look like ZOS is transitioning it's MMO to a single player game.

Historically Elder Scrolls is a single player game... I see things like this as just taking ESO back to the series roots.

ESO is an MMO. That means the focus should be on group content before solo play. Sure, ESO is an elder scrolls THEMED game, but it's not the next installment of elder scrolls after skyrim. It's an MMO. There are so many solo games out there to choose from pushing solo only content in an MMO will lead to a decline in population and make it much harder for people to form groups for the group content.

Even Brad McQuaid said that The first M didn't mean forced grouping it always has meant a massive shared environment...and if everyone who played this game like it's Skyrim with friends were to leave then it would be desolate indeed.

There is room for all of us the Story mode casual and the hyper competitive player...matter of fact playing the Dungeons solo may actually entice people to try it with a group

....you never know

Why not just go play through Skyrim again? Or some other solo game? Why insist they implement game modes that will hurt the game overall.

Because I don't want to...

I want to play ESO I have friends here we just don't group constantly Options are a good thing....and Zenimax seems to agree with me.

Vonnegut2506 · January 12

Anyone claiming solo dungeons will kill an MMO game clearly hasn't been paying attention to the two largest MMO's in North America - World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy whatever number it is on. They have solo dungeons and the MMO portion in both games is alive and well. Claiming something that is contradicted by actual reality is quite something but, unfortunately, pretty common on this forum.

Northwold · January 13

JustLovely wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Story mode is already an option. Just group with 3 friends and go the the dungeon of your choice and spend as much time there doing whatever you like. I'm pretty sure you could even do one friend and two companions and make it work, or just go in by yourself and solo the dungeon.

Or just go into a Story Mode dungeon in our own time and our own way, without having to coordinate with 3 other players, or take a character that is strong enough to solo a dungeon, and enjoy the story, because WHY NOT?

Because ESO is an MMO that should encourage grouping. That's why.

Why do so many people come to ESO and insist it be a different game than it was designed to be? If you don't like ESO there are tons of solo games out there to choose from, most games are for solo players.

You mean the game that started out with one PvP zone and three enormous regions worth of single player region quests PLUS a single player main quest? Seems like what it was designed to be to me...

Elvenheart · January 13

Solo dungeons haven’t killed WoW, quite the contrary. And they added them pretty recently, in a slightly different way than ESO is doing, but the end result is the same. Why would anyone think they would kill ESO? Only the people that think a game should only be played ONE CERTAIN WAY, it seems.

Soarora · January 13

I just want to throw in here that if there was a story mode Vaults of Madness I would do it purely because it's incredibly annoying to try to do that quest in a group. And I do dungeons as my main content.

(Yes, I know, I can solo it. But also... I'm lazy... and... as a tank...? Story mode would let me blast through it presumably.)

LittlePinkDot · January 13

As somebody who mostly only gets to play Monday's and Tuesdays mornings when everyone else is working, there's nobody to group with. Even as a tank, I'm waiting in a queue forever if I need a Vet dungeon for a monster helmet.
I'm not rearranging my entire life just to get a helmet.

Getsugatenso · January 13

this is the future

Mik195 · January 13

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Solo dungeons are a horrible idea. The group finder is already struggling and this will likely make it flounder way more than it already does. "story mode" is for single player games that don't require skills or understanding.

ESO is an MMO and this change just makes it look like ZOS is transitioning it's MMO to a single player game.

Historically Elder Scrolls is a single player game... I see things like this as just taking ESO back to the series roots.

ESO is an MMO. That means the focus should be on group content before solo play. Sure, ESO is an elder scrolls THEMED game, but it's not the next installment of elder scrolls after skyrim. It's an MMO. There are so many solo games out there to choose from pushing solo only content in an MMO will lead to a decline in population and make it much harder for people to form groups for the group content.

Even Brad McQuaid said that The first M didn't mean forced grouping it always has meant a massive shared environment...and if everyone who played this game like it's Skyrim with friends were to leave then it would be desolate indeed.

There is room for all of us the Story mode casual and the hyper competitive player...matter of fact playing the Dungeons solo may actually entice people to try it with a group

....you never know

Why not just go play through Skyrim again? Or some other solo game? Why insist they implement game modes that will hurt the game overall.

Because I don't want to...

I want to play ESO I have friends here we just don't group constantly Options are a good thing....and Zenimax seems to agree with me.

Zenimax also probably appreciates all the money I give them during my solo play since I have a virtually unlimited gaming budget (not that I buy everything, just what I want - I like digital assets because you dont have to dust them, donate them when you are done with them or leave them for your family to dispose of when you die.)

SwordOfSagas · January 13

Dungeons can be done solo right now, apart for the ones that need another person for mechs.

Last'One · January 13

Lumsdenml wrote: »

I think solo dungeons are fine as long as you can't get exactly what you can get from the vet version, like a monster helm. Keep rewards different, but less desirable/ powerful than the vet version.

So… if I want to get one monster set, I have to play with toxic players, speed runners, gatekeeping players and etc....? What if I want-to-play-the-way-I-want? Why do I have to be the target of others just to get one monster set?

Orbital78 · January 13

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

Dungeons can be done solo right now, apart for the ones that need another person for mechs.

They take quite a bit longer to clear though, and some would be pretty difficult for most. Exiled Redoubt comes to mind, all those adds on the last boss. I haven't tried to solo it myself, but that one seemed like it would be a pain. The last one I really farmed solo was Shipwrights Regret, filling up my tank stickerbook. I eventually got it down pretty well, but that last boss fight took quite some time.

They already said they are doing it, so kind of moot at this point.

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

As somebody who mostly only gets to play Monday's and Tuesdays mornings when everyone else is working, there's nobody to group with. Even as a tank, I'm waiting in a queue forever if I need a Vet dungeon for a monster helmet.
I'm not rearranging my entire life just to get a helmet.

I doubt you will be able to get monster helmets solo. I wouldn't be opposed to it though, I hope you can fill all of your stickerbook solo. Maybe there would be less fake/bait players in vet queues. I feel you, off hour queues can be a pain. It is kind of surprising as a tank though, unless you're not on PC or something.

Desiato · January 13

I just hope that ZOS doesn't decide that the introduction of this feature means they don't need to improve the daily random experience.

I enjoy completing runs quickly, BUT I kill all trash I encounter, including optional trash that others may agro.

I absolutely hate being stuck in combat and it is legit triggering to me when I'm pulled into an encounter, so I dislike playing with beeliners who skip everything they possibly can and pull other players into encounters.

The thing is, because resource regen and movement speed are both significantly slower and trash melts so quickly, it's actually faster in most cases to kill everything that agros. Bee-lining is, above all else, lazy.

If I get queued with a bee-liner, I'm saying gg and leaving immediately.

It's important that ESO has a good random dungeon experience because it helps players complete sets and collect transmutes.

ceruulean · January 13

Let's see.. a new game called Where Winds Meet is a solo game by default

There are 3 modes:
Solo: Everything is available to you

COOP: MSQ is locked, and there are some "missions" you can do, but progress only counts for the host, some of these quests (blue books) are solo only however. You will also gain chests, exploration and outposts here for fun.

Online: MSQ is locked, side missions are extremely limited if not outright locked. Limited "content" outside of social minigames... the main thing is a rank progression item for Midnight Blades PVP, as you have to be in online mode (both players) to challenge and steal titles.

Source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/3564740/discussions/0/685238092472364091/

I don't see how solo mode will kill games since more recent games seem come as solo first, with co-op and optional multiplayer.

JustLovely · January 14

https://media1.tenor.com/m/VkjhV8VHGD0AAAAC/butidontwanna-idontwantto.gif

JustLovely · January 14

Last'One wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

I think solo dungeons are fine as long as you can't get exactly what you can get from the vet version, like a monster helm. Keep rewards different, but less desirable/ powerful than the vet version.

So… if I want to get one monster set, I have to play with toxic players, speed runners, gatekeeping players and etc....? What if I want-to-play-the-way-I-want? Why do I have to be the target of others just to get one monster set?

If story or solo dungeons give monster helms or rewards at all it will break the game for everyone who wants to group and play group content. The solo or story mode should be the only reward for those players wanting it.

SilverBride · January 14

Players do not do group content if they aren't interested in it. Enjoying story mode solo dungeons won't make these players avoid group dungeons any more than they already do.

JustLovely · January 14

SilverBride wrote: »

Players do not do group content if they aren't interested in it. Enjoying story mode solo dungeons won't make them avoid group dungeons any more than they already do.

You just changed my mind.

I'm a pvp main who only does trials and dungeons for the gear. I'd love to get the gear for just walking through dungeons and picking flowers.

Cin_Vhetin · January 14

zombievalen wrote: »

Today, this MMO is special; people play it as "Syrim Online." The community isn't toxic—in fact, it's great—but most are against raids and co-op.
It's incredible that an MMO community celebrates playing dungeons solo when you can play them in any offline game.
I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more, and not just instance them alone... that's the essence of every MMO (like WoW, FF, etc.).
If they implement solo dungeons, random dungeons will disappear and the essence of the MMO as well.

The weakness of this position is: "I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more" is antithetical toward providing a rewarding experience for all players. No one is making you do dungeons solo. But you would literally make others do dungeons in groups.

I've also read in this thread, to the effect: why not play some other solo dungeon game if you don't want to group for dungeons. This is also a very weak argument for forcing other people to play the way you want to play. In other words they are effectively saying (not that you mean it this way): Get out of my game if you don't want to play it the way I think you should.

Rethink your reasoning for your arguments here. As they are now, they are ineffective.

ESO already offers incentives for grouping for dungeons. Solo dungeons will just be another way to play, IMO. If you really believe random dungeons will disappear, then it will be because people will be letting ESO know that they didn't want to play random dungeons in the first place.

JustLovely · January 14

Cin_Vhetin wrote: »

zombievalen wrote: »

Today, this MMO is special; people play it as "Syrim Online." The community isn't toxic—in fact, it's great—but most are against raids and co-op.
It's incredible that an MMO community celebrates playing dungeons solo when you can play them in any offline game.
I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more, and not just instance them alone... that's the essence of every MMO (like WoW, FF, etc.).
If they implement solo dungeons, random dungeons will disappear and the essence of the MMO as well.

The weakness of this position is: "I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more" is antithetical toward providing a rewarding experience for all players. No one is making you do dungeons solo. But you would literally make others do dungeons in groups.

I've also read in this thread, to the effect: why not play some other solo dungeon game if you don't want to group for dungeons. This is also a very weak argument for forcing other people to play the way you want to play. In other words they are effectively saying (not that you mean it this way): Get out of my game if you don't want to play it the way I think you should.

Rethink your reasoning for your arguments here. As they are now, they are ineffective.

ESO already offers incentives for grouping for dungeons. Solo dungeons will just be another way to play, IMO. If you really believe random dungeons will disappear, then it will be because people will be letting ESO know that they didn't want to play random dungeons in the first place.

The arguments against solo mode are not weak. The only way solo/story mode doesn't break the game for players who play MMO's for grouping and socializing is if there are no rewards.

SilverBride · January 14

JustLovely wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players do not do group content if they aren't interested in it. Enjoying story mode solo dungeons won't make them avoid group dungeons any more than they already do.

You just changed my mind.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm just giving my feedback on the issue.

JustLovely wrote: »

I'm a pvp main who only does trials and dungeons for the gear. I'd love to get the gear for just walking through dungeons and picking flowers.

I didn't say a single thing about getting gear.

Blood_again · January 14

JustLovely wrote: »

The arguments against solo mode are not weak. The only way solo/story mode doesn't break the game for players who play MMO's for grouping and socializing is if there are no rewards.

If there are not the same rewards as in a group dungeon, but for less time or less work.
Fixed it for you.

Different rewards for solo and group modes make it totally OK.

Syldras · January 14

JustLovely wrote: »

The arguments against solo mode are not weak. The only way solo/story mode doesn't break the game for players who play MMO's for grouping and socializing is if there are no rewards.

Do they want to group and socialize with people who don't want to group and socialize but only participate in dungeons for the rewards? Doesn't sound like fun to me.