Solo Dungeons will Kill the MMO.

LunaFlora · January 11

Story mode is supposed to be a lower difficulty mode, under Normal.
the only logical change to rewards is lowering the item set quality to Green/Fine or White/Normal.
And just like Normal we would not get Monster Sets.

Solo dungeons are the same dungeons, but changed to fit 1 player instead of 4 players, right?
Probably at least fewer enemies and changing mechanics to not require more than 1 player. Which the Wolfhunter dungeons both have.
The traps in March of Sacrifices require another player to free you so those would be removed entirely

i cannot imagine any reason why existing rewards would be removed for Solo versions, but i can see extra rewards being added to the dungeons overall.

Credible_Joe · January 11

If all they did was remove hard group checks in the few dungeons that have them, every dungeon would be solo-able on normal.

Asserting that this (or any solo dungeon solution) would kill the MMO experience is pure hyperbole. Anyone who's tried to solo-farm a low-traffic dungeon immediately recognizes the incentive to group: drops & trades. Four rolls per drop is better than one. This has made group enforcement unnecessary from the very beginning.

Allowing us to solo run the dungeon for vibes, challenge, or lore is not a game killing mistake. Low traffic dungeons will still be low traffic. The meta set dungeons will still have lots of pickup groups. Pledges will still have fake roles queueing to farm keys as fast as possible.

It'll all be okay.

AzuraFan · January 11

Gabriel_H wrote: »

We seem to be cross-talking here. Let me try clear this up. I'm saying there should not be a reason to go back and farm a dungeon in story-mode, after already doing it once, because the whole point of story mode is to do the story.

It depends. If story mode is just a difficulty level, then yes, there could be a reason to farm the dungeon. If story mode is a dungeon with no mobs at all, and nothing else to do, except listen to the story, then sure, you'd do it once and never again.

We don't know what it looks like yet. But from the stream, it sounded like there will be different difficulty levels for the dungeons, and story mode is the lowest. In that case, it would have its own set of rewards.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what it looks like.

LittlePinkDot · January 11

zombievalen wrote: »

Today, this MMO is special; people play it as "Syrim Online." The community isn't toxic—in fact, it's great—but most are against raids and co-op.
It's incredible that an MMO community celebrates playing dungeons solo when you can play them in any offline game.
I think they should focus on making players need to socialize and cooperate more, and not just instance them alone... that's the essence of every MMO (like WoW, FF, etc.).
If they implement solo dungeons, random dungeons will disappear and the essence of the MMO as well.

Dude I'm a middle aged women. I don't know anyone I can organize with. And if I join a guild I get kicked out when I take a break.
Pugging as a tank is ok. But mostly I just wait until the golden vendor has what I want.
I was always much more into PvP anyway

Warhawke_80 · January 11

I'm all for solo Dungeons..that whole

"We want you to meet people in game and become lifelong friends!!!"™

is a nice thought, but it's not realistic...people run Dungeons as fast as they can and they have zero tolerance for anyone who wants to actually experience the content...[snip]

It's only logical to give the vast majority of players the story mode we have been asking for.
[edited for baiting]

Tariq9898 · January 11

I’d love a story mode for dungeons. Hopefully with this update, every group dungeon quests becomes repeatable or at the very least renewed if you’ve done it already. This and Overland difficulties are some of the best QoL changes coming to solo players. I’m curious if soloing dungeons will count for the Undaunted dailies or if it’ll have its own subset of difficulties.

Markytous · January 11

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I'm all for solo Dungeons..that whole

"We want you to meet people in game and become lifelong friends!!!"™

is a nice thought, but it's not realistic...people run Dungeons as fast as they can and they have zero tolerance for anyone who wants to actually experience the content...[snip]

It's only logical to give the vast majority of players the story mode we have been asking for.
[edited for baiting]

New World forced people to group just to enter its dungeons and look what happened to that game. Things just don't go well when you tie forcing people to group together when, in some cases, you may not find anyone to group up with. I have sat long hours queuing for some specific DLC dungeon that I just bought to never actually get to play it. Might as well let people enjoy dungeons solo. Even better, let them Solo Dungeon WHILE THEY QUEUE for a specific Group Dungeon! That's what is about to be given to us and it sounds glorious. Online gaming isn't new anymore. More commonly, people just want to find their little slice in the online gaming space and leave it there. Socializing online isn't new anymore and we have so much more access to it outside of the game these days (point being WoW was huge because it was basically competing with the online messengers of its day).

Having Solo and Group Dungeons, as you say, is more realistic with the current online gaming culture/landscape. For the long run, having both will be much better. Myself and many others don't even participate in Group Dungeons/Trials because of the X factor/horror stories of being "forced" to play with certain players. Someone criticized my build because they saw an ability I was using that they didn't like and told me that I should do Fungal Grotto 1 on Normal before doing Veteran dungeons when I cleared Domihaus on Vet during that dungeon's release. The less toxic PVE I have to deal with, the better.

cyberjanet · January 12

zombievalen wrote: »

I think a lot of people don't understand that this is an MMO (even ZoS himself haha)
I say this with all due respect.

I think a lot of people don't understand this is an MMO RPG and that the RPG aspect should have equal value.
I say this with all due respect.

Thalmar · January 12

Solo dungeons will only increase my game time, it is one of the best decisions can be made at this point. I do not play MMOs I only play MMORPGs and there is a big difference between these two genre. ESO has a huge lore and RP aspects that is the reason I began to play it back 2014. I do not group even in Cyrodiil. And pvp is one of my favoruite part of the game.

I am really tired of all games giving better rewards for group content even thou solo players pay equally. I hope they will later add some difficulty level to solo dungeons to lower the equipment balance between group and solo players. In the end of the day I already would not join group finder or any group content to make the queues shorter, solo dungeons are not ment for group players, you have your best gear and lots of content already, let us have a little bit from the cake...

Iriidius · January 12

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Tyralbin wrote: »

Some people seem to forget the history of Elder Scrolls.

ESO attracted peeple from the solo playing community to it because of this.

Solo dungeons are more in keeping with its original setup.

I am not saying not to have group content just the more diveerse a game is the better it is off for it.

The original set up is to require grouping for dungeons.

Where in the TES original setup of singleplayer RPGs is grouping required for dungeons?
If you talk about ESO original setup you talk about something totally different than the player you responded to.

KalevaLaine · January 12

I'm also against this.

i feel the people who say that they don't want to join guilds or organise smth., but many players will play solo then and this will be harder to queue for poeple who play in groups, for what MMO's are constructed.

xylena · January 12

The 00s style MMO model is largely dead. Players want to play the game, not get bogged down by hours of logistics and gatekeeping just to access content.

BrierTOG · January 12

hmm solo dungeons can also used for getting the stories of the dungeons that is often not possible in the game because people want to run through the content and not stop.

frogthroat · January 12

BrierTOG wrote: »

hmm solo dungeons can also used for getting the stories of the dungeons that is often not possible in the game because people want to run through the content and not stop.

Apparently solo mode and story mode are going to be different things. I also thought first that they will be the same thing, but apparently not.

But if 4 player mode gives something you can't get in solo mode, the dungeon finder will still exist even if the solo mode has different difficulties. Transmutes come to mind, but perhaps also motifs, (some) leads, and maybe even monster helmets could be only in group mode. Those who solo dungeons now would not need much anyway, since currently soloers get nothing extra over 4 player groups.

Vulkunne · January 12

Question is will this really be the solution to this issue or will people form a group and just log in anyways and start running to the end.

Iriidius · January 12

Markytous wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I'm all for solo Dungeons..that whole

"We want you to meet people in game and become lifelong friends!!!"™

is a nice thought, but it's not realistic...people run Dungeons as fast as they can and they have zero tolerance for anyone who wants to actually experience the content...[snip]

It's only logical to give the vast majority of players the story mode we have been asking for.
[edited for baiting]

New World forced people to group just to enter its dungeons and look what happened to that game. Things just don't go well when you tie forcing people to group together when, in some cases, you may not find anyone to group up with. I have sat long hours queuing for some specific DLC dungeon that I just bought to never actually get to play it. Might as well let people enjoy dungeons solo. Even better, let them Solo Dungeon WHILE THEY QUEUE for a specific Group Dungeon! That's what is about to be given to us and it sounds glorious. Online gaming isn't new anymore. More commonly, people just want to find their little slice in the online gaming space and leave it there. Socializing online isn't new anymore and we have so much more access to it outside of the game these days (point being WoW was huge because it was basically competing with the online messengers of its day).

Having Solo and Group Dungeons, as you say, is more realistic with the current online gaming culture/landscape. For the long run, having both will be much better. Myself and many others don't even participate in Group Dungeons/Trials because of the X factor/horror stories of being "forced" to play with certain players. Someone criticized my build because they saw an ability I was using that they didn't like and told me that I should do Fungal Grotto 1 on Normal before doing Veteran dungeons when I cleared Domihaus on Vet during that dungeon's release. The less toxic PVE I have to deal with, the better.

If others dont want to play with you you are locked out of content and punished for playing solo just as much as if you avoid playing with others yourself except you dont have option to change it.
If content cant be done by a good solo player than it usually cant be done by average PuGs either. New dlc dungeons/trials on vet require premade and even on normal are more difficult than a basegame veteran dungeon.
PuG players should all know the situation when group content has no queue or other PuG or teammates arent real help when they do no dmg/healing nor hold aggro nor giving buffs nor using direfrost pressure plates nor freeing you from unbreakable stun(like fungal grotto 2) nor do anything else.
The most vocal supporters of content requiring groups are premade players who wouldnt even accept soloplayers they want to lock out of content in their group but just want to gatekeep them.

Kilthor69 · January 12

Whether it is solo or 4 man group I am hoping they start to add more traps, maybe make us use the grappling hook more to open doors or disbale traps. In essence, make us think instead of blinding running through a dungeons.

ShinyBacon · January 12

I am very much looking forward to solo dungeons. It will not reduce the amount of group dungeons i am doing, it will probably increase my participation in group dungeons.

I just want to take my time the first time going through a dungeon and not only enjoy the quest, but also plunder every urn and nightstand, but i hope there will be also opportunity to explore the mechanics by myself.
Sometimes i also would like to just enjoy the scenery, the devs put a lot of time and effort in designing the dungeon and the environment and many want to either rush through or have other motivations (achievements etc) which i dont want to be taken away from them by dumbing down the group experience.

I think this will be a positive experience for all players.

Warhawke_80 · January 12

Markytous wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I'm all for solo Dungeons..that whole

"We want you to meet people in game and become lifelong friends!!!"™

is a nice thought, but it's not realistic...people run Dungeons as fast as they can and they have zero tolerance for anyone who wants to actually experience the content...[snip]

It's only logical to give the vast majority of players the story mode we have been asking for.
[edited for baiting]

New World forced people to group just to enter its dungeons and look what happened to that game. Things just don't go well when you tie forcing people to group together when, in some cases, you may not find anyone to group up with. I have sat long hours queuing for some specific DLC dungeon that I just bought to never actually get to play it. Might as well let people enjoy dungeons solo. Even better, let them Solo Dungeon WHILE THEY QUEUE for a specific Group Dungeon! That's what is about to be given to us and it sounds glorious. Online gaming isn't new anymore. More commonly, people just want to find their little slice in the online gaming space and leave it there. Socializing online isn't new anymore and we have so much more access to it outside of the game these days (point being WoW was huge because it was basically competing with the online messengers of its day).

Having Solo and Group Dungeons, as you say, is more realistic with the current online gaming culture/landscape. For the long run, having both will be much better. Myself and many others don't even participate in Group Dungeons/Trials because of the X factor/horror stories of being "forced" to play with certain players. Someone criticized my build because they saw an ability I was using that they didn't like and told me that I should do Fungal Grotto 1 on Normal before doing Veteran dungeons when I cleared Domihaus on Vet during that dungeon's release. The less toxic PVE I have to deal with, the better.

Thank you!

Playing a Dungeon solo while you're queued is genius and something I really hope they add...and yes I believe this will reconcile most toxicity even in group settings...no one wants to be mean or difficult if anyone in your group can at any time just run it solo.

I look for our community to get a heck of a lot friendlier especially in group settings

JustLovely · January 12

Solo dungeons in any capacity is a horrible idea for any MMO.

People who are afraid to group just need to dive in and do it. It won't always work out how you like, but that's life. Sometimes it turns out great and you make a new friend.

JustLovely · January 12

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Solo dungeons are a horrible idea. The group finder is already struggling and this will likely make it flounder way more than it already does. "story mode" is for single player games that don't require skills or understanding.

ESO is an MMO and this change just makes it look like ZOS is transitioning it's MMO to a single player game.

Historically Elder Scrolls is a single player game... I see things like this as just taking ESO back to the series roots.

ESO is an MMO. That means the focus should be on group content before solo play. Sure, ESO is an elder scrolls THEMED game, but it's not the next installment of elder scrolls after skyrim. It's an MMO. There are so many solo games out there to choose from pushing solo only content in an MMO will lead to a decline in population and make it much harder for people to form groups for the group content.

GloatingSwine · January 12

LunaFlora wrote: »

Story mode is supposed to be a lower difficulty mode, under Normal.
the only logical change to rewards is lowering the item set quality to Green/Fine or White/Normal.
And just like Normal we would not get Monster Sets.

Item set quality isn't particularly relevant.

The real win for solo dungeons is getting the skill point without having to have a mild-to-mediumly sweaty build and without having a group willing to chill whilst NPCs yap.

Warhawke_80 · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Solo dungeons are a horrible idea. The group finder is already struggling and this will likely make it flounder way more than it already does. "story mode" is for single player games that don't require skills or understanding.

ESO is an MMO and this change just makes it look like ZOS is transitioning it's MMO to a single player game.

Historically Elder Scrolls is a single player game... I see things like this as just taking ESO back to the series roots.

ESO is an MMO. That means the focus should be on group content before solo play. Sure, ESO is an elder scrolls THEMED game, but it's not the next installment of elder scrolls after skyrim. It's an MMO. There are so many solo games out there to choose from pushing solo only content in an MMO will lead to a decline in population and make it much harder for people to form groups for the group content.

Even Brad McQuaid said that The first M didn't mean forced grouping it always has meant a massive shared environment...and if everyone who played this game like it's Skyrim with friends were to leave then it would be desolate indeed.

There is room for all of us the Story mode casual and the hyper competitive player...matter of fact playing the Dungeons solo may actually entice people to try it with a group

....you never know

SeaGtGruff · January 12

Cooperharley wrote: »

Nah. Solo dungeons won't at all. If they say you can get monster masks, all the achievements and all the gear from it, then possibly, but if they separate out achievements specifically for solo versions of those achievements for instance, then i think it'll be fine. Just like anything it's all on implementation. I think the people that want to group up still will and those that want to solo will have more to do so.

We don't get monster masks from Normal Mode, so I'm guessing we probably won't be able to get them from Story Mode-- but I'm not sure about Challenging Mode.

As far as I know, most, if not all, Dungeon rewards-- excluding Achievements-- can either be obtained from both Normal and Veteran modes (such as Dungeon Sets and Antiquity Leads), or obtained in other ways (purchased from Undaunted Merchants, The Golden, Imperial City Sewer Merchants, Imperial City District Merchants, Infinite Archive Merchants, etc.). So if Monster Masks can be purchased (albeit only occasionally during certain weeks, rather than all the time) without even needing to run the Veteran Mode dungeon they drop from, then I'm not sure why Monster Masks shouldn't drop from the Challenging Mode of that dungeon-- assuming that Challenging Mode will be to Solo Dungeons as Veteran Mode is to Group Dungeons, which might be a faulty assumption.

Edit: One thing that I think might be a good idea (if Solo Dungeons are going to drop the same Dungeon Sets and Monster Masks as Group Dungeons) would be if Solo Dungeons drop those items in a lower quality than Group Dungeons do, and that the various modes also drop items of different qualities-- for example,
- Story Mode Solo Dungeons could drop up to only Green quality items;
- Challenging Mode Solo Dungeons could drop up to Blue quality items;
- Normal Mode Group Dungeons could drop up to Purple quality items; and
- Veteran Mode Group Dungeons could drop up to Golden quality items.

But I'm not sure what "Challenging Mode" means (a Challenging version of the Solo dungeon, or a version of the Group dungeon that's even more challenging than Veteran Mode?), so I'm not sure if the above even makes sense.

AzuraFan · January 12

Thalmar wrote: »

Solo dungeons will only increase my game time, it is one of the best decisions can be made at this point.

Same.

I am really tired of all games giving better rewards for group content even thou solo players pay equally. I

I provided similar feedback in the survey.

I understand this is an MMO, but there have always been a lot of pure soloists, or players who prefer to solo, playing MMOs. Also, in terms of challenge/difficulty, I've never understood why groups get better rewards. It's easier to do dungeons in a group than it is to solo them (for me, anyway). If rewards are meant to be proportional to the challenge, soloing a group dungeon should net you better rewards. Grouping is easy mode for most dungeons. As part of paying attention to all play styles, rewards should be looked at too. Not asking for better, just equal.

salander7 · January 12

They've been appealing to the solo crowd for 5 years now, to the point where they are a majority within the playerbase.

As soon as TES VI releases, most of them will likely ditch ESO for a couple years, and then the rest of us will get the song and dance of the game no longer being sustainable and so on before they start slashing it.

Meanwhile, all the long-time group content enjoyers know dozens of players that left for other multiplayer games, and most of the players that still play, do so out of eso combat system being quite uniquely fast paced, not because they're super excited about current state of things.

Orbital78 · January 12

JustLovely wrote: »

Solo dungeons in any capacity is a horrible idea for any MMO.

People who are afraid to group just need to dive in and do it. It won't always work out how you like, but that's life. Sometimes it turns out great and you make a new friend.

I think you're missing the point, some people want to take the dungeons slow, roleplay, etc the first quest through. I think it is healthy to give it as an option.

That is hard in a group setting when half want to speed run. Groups will likely default more to speed runs when everyone has the option to get their skill point solo... Eventually once all dungeons have the option.

salander7 · January 12

Orbital78 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point, some people want to take the dungeons slow, roleplay, etc the first quest through. I think it is healthy to give it as an option.

That is hard in a group setting when half want to speed run. Groups will likely default more to speed runs when everyone has the option to get their skill point solo... Eventually once all dungeons have the option.

What is preventing said people from creating guilds/servers when they can set up runs with slow-roleplay-quest enjoying-whatever in mind? There have been roleplay oriented guilds since the start of the game. You can even check the "Casual" tag in the guild finder. Hell, if that player hates everyone and still wants to play solo, they can go in normal, and with some minimal build and a companion, I think you can clear the vast majority of normal dungeons without any stress.

Listening to every dialogue in a random dungeon is as likely as getting the trifecta when getting a dlc dungeon in a random veteran: that's what groups are for.

The only useful bit of solo dungeons would be players that already solo vetDLC hms and want a challenge with solo play in mind, however, I really doubt the scope of the solo dungeons will be people that solo Unhallowed Grave HM.

Orbital78 · January 12

salander7 wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point, some people want to take the dungeons slow, roleplay, etc the first quest through. I think it is healthy to give it as an option.

That is hard in a group setting when half want to speed run. Groups will likely default more to speed runs when everyone has the option to get their skill point solo... Eventually once all dungeons have the option.

What is preventing said people from creating guilds/servers when they can set up runs with slow-roleplay-quest enjoying-whatever in mind? There have been roleplay oriented guilds since the start of the game. You can even check the "Casual" tag in the guild finder. Hell, if that player hates everyone and still wants to play solo, they can go in normal, and with some minimal build and a companion, I think you can clear the vast majority of normal dungeons without any stress.

Listening to every dialogue in a random dungeon is as likely as getting the trifecta when getting a dlc dungeon in a random veteran: that's what groups are for.

The only useful bit of solo dungeons would be players that already solo vetDLC hms and want a challenge with solo play in mind, however, I really doubt the scope of the solo dungeons will be people that solo Unhallowed Grave HM.

Agreed, but just because I can solo it doesn't mean everyone can. I have all the quests done for the most part on most of my alts. I have ended up soloing quite a few because grouping bugs some out. Volenfell and Seleens were notorious.

Personally something I don't need, but I don't see the harm either. Hopefully they teach mechs more, randoms could really use the training.

This_0ne · January 12

Hey, why don't you go play some PvP, it's an MMO after all. Let me enjoy my solo dungeons and quests, you enjoy your dungeons and trials without players standing next to NPCs for 5 minutes, and PvP players will enjoy PvP.