House Locked Behind Hard/Group Content? Please no!

Soarora · January 10

MoonPile wrote: »

It'd be nice to have multiple options...

I prefer the market: you play that, I play this, we trade and everybody's happy.
.

This too. You know what people who do trials want more of? Rare RUNEBOX drops like the Asylum Sanctorium polymorph. Runeboxes are tradeable without selling a whole carry, but the drop is rare enough that seeing someone rocking that bronze polymorph shows they’re either a vAS+2 farmer or they’ve got a lot of money. Endgamers also need a lot of money for upgrading gear, heroism potions, and… housing…

BlueRaven wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

This is why we can’t have nice things. People complained about worm wizard & beast personality, now we get nothing for dungeon challengers. No matter what the reward is, be it skin, personality, furnishing, or house, someone will want it without doing the content and someone will complain. Endgame players deserve meaningful rewards too, and a LOT of them are into housing as well. As long as all kinds of players can get rewards for doing their favorite content, I don’t see a problem. I would be fine if there’s a house reserved for the Emperor! achievement or from fishing or from completing all the quests in the game, all things I don’t intend on doing.

SpiritKitten wrote: »

And...it's only available for a limited time.

It will return and ZOS said it could even be permanent. Calling it limited time is like calling the exorcised witch cottage limited time for being tied to the witches festival.

I have very mixed feelings about this.

First, the house is in far grave and thus has that weird lighting I don’t care for so I really don’t want it. Plus there is a ton of houses out there, and I am still trying to catch up with others I have not decorated yet.

But…

Is having access to the best weapons and armor not enough?

Is getting easy access to motifs not enough?

Is getting access to unique furnishings not enough?

This upcoming year appears to be one of the bleakest in eso’s development history. And I was here when veteran levels was a thing.
There is no real new exciting content, and what little content there is appears to not be aimed at the casual player, who are the bread and butter of this game.

Everyone has access to the same weapons and armor. The perfected bonus is nice on most things, sure, but generally it’s not necessary. If you’re not doing vet trial farm runs or vet arenas to get perfected gear, then you probably don’t need that extra bonus. Argument could be made for monster sets but the best monster sets for DPS are nondlc.

Motifs are nice and the 100% drop is only applicable to endgame dungeoneers, this is true. That said, it’s more about getting money than getting the motif, I feel.

The furnishings are nice, you got me there. That said, more rewards for each community are always good, makes it seem ZOS recognizes us. I’m always happy when PvPers get new things (even if I want them) and I’m only a very casual PvPer!

There’s a few quests and making solo mode of dungeons. People have been begging for solo mode of dungeons to do the quests on these forums constantly. If that’s not casual players being heard out, I don’t know what is. I don’t think it’s fair to say casuals are the bread and butter of the game. The game needs all of us, be it PvPer, casual player, or group PvEr. The groups aren’t even mutually exclusive. I was a casual for 2 years and I still clash with PvE endgame much like a casual would, despite being an endgamer LOL.

MoonPile · January 10

Soarora wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

It'd be nice to have multiple options...

I prefer the market: you play that, I play this, we trade and everybody's happy.
.

This too. You know what people who do trials want more of? Rare RUNEBOX drops like the Asylum Sanctorium polymorph. Runeboxes are tradeable without selling a whole carry, but the drop is rare enough that seeing someone rocking that bronze polymorph shows they’re either a vAS+2 farmer or they’ve got a lot of money. Endgamers also need a lot of money for upgrading gear, heroism potions, and… housing…
...

Yes. Added to that, the point is "Reward" is different for everyone.

Some endgame PVE/PVP-ers might feel "rewarded" by a house. Meanwhile, many combat-centric players are barely aware of Housing. They might prefer things like that runebox – rewards relevant to their actual gameplay that they enjoy. Maybe it's powerful gear or upgrades. And if they don't give a rat's bum about the house, they should be able to trade their trash to someone who'd treasure it.

Those of us who chiefly play for housing want certain items / houses, not because it's a "Reward" to show off – it's a just tool for our gameplay, a pigment in our palette. Especially when there is no compatible replacement.

Personally I don't mind this Night Market. Could be fun! I just don't agree with takes like "people should stop expecting rewards for not playing". I think that's rather disingenuous and hyperbolic. They are playing, just in a different niche.

Example:
I used to grind Dragon Rheum when it was actually worthwhile (pre-2024-Jubilee). It was so fun and I sold it all to EG players so I could buy Housing stuff. I even made two builds about this: The Dragon Hunters’ Festival & Khajiit's Tenmar Retreat (both of which contain the Sunspire HM trophies I got thanks to my GM. I did my best to gear up & be helpful in their run, but got yeeted into unresable area at one point.

Nearly a carry.)

And:

robwolf666 wrote: »

It's a game, not work. 😏

DenverRalphy · January 10

I don't think anybody is saying "stop expecting rewards for not playing". Instead what a lot of us are saying is "stop expecting all rewards for only doing any one thing".

Koshka · January 10

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't think anybody is saying "stop expecting rewards for not playing". Instead what a lot of us are saying is "stop expecting all rewards for only doing any one thing".

Exactly.
I love housing, but I don't expect to be able to use, let's say, pvp furnishings without pvping. Is the ruby throne cool to have? Definitely! But I think it's fair that it's reserved for those who actually put effort into getting the achievement.
Same with this house. Demanding to have it without participating in the content is just silly, it's like wanting to get the Julianos chapel without having to collect tickets.
The lack of rewards that are not handed out just for showing up is one of the biggest problems with ESO reward system. It is really great that they are trying to finally do something about it.

P.S. I don't understand the complaints about casual players not getting anything this year. Solo dungeons were one of the most requested thing, and they are adding those. As well as some TG/Sheogorath stories apparently.

lillybit · January 10

There's already a house (Elsweyr) locked behind quests and dungeons. There's endgamers who hate questing as much as solo players hate group stuff so it goes both ways.

We don't even know the deal with this house yet - it could be that it's awarded to everyone at the end the same as the community event house rewards were; little or no participation needed.

That said, I agree that not everything has to be accessible to everyone. I'd love the beast personality and even to just run the last couple of years dungeons on vet, but I fell out of group content when my anxiety got too bad. Nobody's fault but mine and I wouldn't expect them to be just handed to me. Thems the breaks!

SilverBride · January 11

Is there a link to this house anywhere?

LunaFlora · January 11

SilverBride wrote: »

Is there a link to this house anywhere?

https://youtu.be/Bg3gcsstoXk?si=JLGWlpmfNU2SMFfw
35 minutes into the video

Recent · January 11

Soarora wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Put houses behind harder content and you'll see more players actually engagining in harder content.

I'm curious (genuinely) as to where this idea comes from, because there are things I want that are locked behind harder content like the Beast Personality. However I haven't tried because I know that content is beyond my reach. A lot of people who want X or Y aren't going to bother with the content it's behind if they can't do it or don't like it, so I have doubts that putting a House behind harder group content would prompt people who don't already like doing that to do it.

I can promise you that the beast personality is not beyond your reach, you just can't do it with a pug group. The hard mode is really recoverable and then for speed run/no death, you just need to be able to 1 - block the lurchers instead of dodge and 2 - have someone in the group who knows where all the trash packs are. If you're interested, I can hit you up with the discord to my dungeon guild. I would be happy to help you get the personality (even if you don't want to join my guild discord, just let me know and we can find a time )!

@Soarora , i was in your guild and ran a vet dungeon with you. Yourself and the other girl in our group were very nice but the guy in the group sounded like he would rather drink acid than be there and he was sarcastic cos i didnt have a purge on my bar. He was like that the whole dungeon. Perhaps you are used to his manner and dont even notice it. Why i left your guild cos i would never run with him again. I kept that in for so many months but when i saw this i had to say it.

SilverBride · January 11

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Is there a link to this house anywhere?

35 minutes into the video

Thanks for the link!

Now I know what I probably won't be getting.

Orbital78 · January 11

People wanted more earnable rewards, they listened. Hopefully it isn't too over the top in difficulty, but there are quite a few mounts and rewards locked behind the hardest content in the game. IMO this is a good trend, as long as they put as much effort in to the detail and quality of the reward as the stuff you have to pay for. It feels like quite a bit of the free earnable rewards are kind of mediocre with a few exceptions.

hiyde · January 11

Recent wrote: »

Why i left your guild cos i would never run with him again. I kept that in for so many months but when i saw this i had to say it.

This is valuable feedback for a guild. Not sure why it needed to be public, though.

scrappy1342 · January 11

if it's anything like the other house currently in game locked behind content... it won't be that bad. one of the eso+ free trials, i ran my alt account along with 2 friends and it was easy peasy. we literally just carried my alt through. the three of us did the dungeon and used the teleport to boss feature with my alt

Soarora · January 11

Recent wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Put houses behind harder content and you'll see more players actually engagining in harder content.

I'm curious (genuinely) as to where this idea comes from, because there are things I want that are locked behind harder content like the Beast Personality. However I haven't tried because I know that content is beyond my reach. A lot of people who want X or Y aren't going to bother with the content it's behind if they can't do it or don't like it, so I have doubts that putting a House behind harder group content would prompt people who don't already like doing that to do it.

I can promise you that the beast personality is not beyond your reach, you just can't do it with a pug group. The hard mode is really recoverable and then for speed run/no death, you just need to be able to 1 - block the lurchers instead of dodge and 2 - have someone in the group who knows where all the trash packs are. If you're interested, I can hit you up with the discord to my dungeon guild. I would be happy to help you get the personality (even if you don't want to join my guild discord, just let me know and we can find a time )!

@Soarora , i was in your guild and ran a vet dungeon with you. Yourself and the other girl in our group were very nice but the guy in the group sounded like he would rather drink acid than be there and he was sarcastic cos i didnt have a purge on my bar. He was like that the whole dungeon. Perhaps you are used to his manner and dont even notice it. Why i left your guild cos i would never run with him again. I kept that in for so many months but when i saw this i had to say it.

I'm sorry to hear that experience ruined the guild for you. The guild very much is "choose who you want to play with", several of our members clash in gameplay style, including me with some people, but after a while, people find their preferred kind of group (I've been workshopping how to make it easier to know whose what kind of player). I don't recall exactly the run or who you're talking about, but if you ever want to talk about it feel free to shoot me a message through the forum mail or in-game. You're always welcome back, but no pressure. I dearly want the guild to feel safe and enjoyable for everyone.

katanagirl1 · January 12

Hopefully the house won’t be too hard to get, I really haven’t looked at it to know if I like it but I try to get all of the house rewards.

That being said, I still don’t have that nice boat from vKA. I have never got good enough to run it with guildies. In fact they laughed at me when I said the whole point of running it for me was the boat, not some silly skin.

lillybit · January 12

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Hopefully the house won’t be too hard to get, I really haven’t looked at it to know if I like it but I try to get all of the house rewards.

That being said, I still don’t have that nice boat from vKA. I have never got good enough to run it with guildies. In fact they laughed at me when I said the whole point of running it for me was the boat, not some silly skin.

The vKA skin is horrible, the boat is a much better reason to run it!

HatchetHaro · January 12

Oh no, there are rewards for effort! The horror!

With Rakkhat's Voidmantle Heavy-Attack builds and the multiple flavours of Arcanist Beam builds, being viable as a dps is easier and more accessible than ever.

Besides, you can get help from friends and guildmates; the social aspect is one of the fun things in ESO.

Heck, you can even pay for carries with your gold; many guilds advertise that service in the bigger zones.

Maybe you should just bite the bullet and try that sort of content just for the event, yeah?

lillybit · January 12

From the PTS patch notes:

The Night’s Den: A New House! Earned by completing the introductory quest in Night Market. It even has an entrance directly from the Night Market!

LunaFlora · January 12

awesome that the house is earned without big challenges.

Warhawke_80 · January 12

Seraphayel wrote: »

Not every reward has to be achievable by everyone.

Why not?

It's merely a game...Nothing achievable in a Video game actually matters in the grand scheme of things

wolfie1.0. · January 12

LunaFlora wrote: »

awesome that the house is earned without big challenges.

But its hinted that like the lunar champion house there may be ways to upgrade it if you do more?

lillybit · January 12

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

awesome that the house is earned without big challenges.

But its hinted that like the lunar champion house there may be ways to upgrade it if you do more?

Yeah it definitely says you can earn upgrades for it (sounds like the banker is one) but it's not on PTS yet so still waiting to see how that works

twisttop138 · January 12

ESO_player123 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'm of the belief that group content should have highly prized exclusive rewards. I think a house is a perfectly acceptable reward. Certainly ore worthwile than yet another skin or stylepage.

Put houses behind harder content and you'll see more players actually engagining in harder content.

How about putting a house behind ToT?

I cannot stand ToT but yes. All day. Hard content should have excellent rewards. Sometimes you gotta do the content if you want the rancor mount, I mean the whatever. But people should be happy to hear that the house is for the intro quest.

twisttop138 · January 12

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Hopefully the house won’t be too hard to get, I really haven’t looked at it to know if I like it but I try to get all of the house rewards.

That being said, I still don’t have that nice boat from vKA. I have never got good enough to run it with guildies. In fact they laughed at me when I said the whole point of running it for me was the boat, not some silly skin.

Skin is weak sauce. Boats all day.

LunaFlora · January 12

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

awesome that the house is earned without big challenges.

But its hinted that like the lunar champion house there may be ways to upgrade it if you do more?

true. we will see how those upgrades get earned.

it will of course require interacting with the Night Market, but i doubt it will require doing the hardest challenges

BardokRedSnow · January 12

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Not every reward has to be achievable by everyone.

Why not?

It's merely a game...Nothing achievable in a Video game actually matters in the grand scheme of things

Luckily you're in a very small minority that believes this, its no different than people feeling achievement for literally anything else, including fishing, knitting, putting a ball in a hole from far away or not far away, etc.

This attitude doesn't sell anything, clearly Zos realizes that. If its merely a game and doesn't matter, I'll merely spend money elsewhere.

BardokRedSnow · January 12

robwolf666 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

If a person wants to get paid, they have to put in the work. That's how it's supposed to be.

It's a game, not work. 😏

Nothing worth having is easily obtained, humans are hardwired into feeling this even in a game, these takes about it being just a game are so fake, and annoying.

Achievements exist for a reason and people like getting them for a reason, same with their rewards. Back in the day games like halo only had achievement based cosmetics and it was the most fun having to earn your cool looking gear, now everythings handed to you on a platter or, you buy it and any time something, just a handful of things requires a wee bit of effort we get people demanding they take it away so you can pay real money that takes real effort to earn, or get it for free.

Then those same people will complain later about monetization.

Games are fun for many reasons but the one thing every game has in common is, if there is no effort needed to obtain or achieve anything, people stop playing.

Syldras · January 12

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Games are fun for many reasons but the one thing every game has in common is, if there is no effort needed to obtain or achieve anything, people stop playing.

The question is how big the effort should be. In the end it's an individual calculation whether something is worth the time or not. Some people don't mind grinding for some game item for dozens of hours, other people might find that too much time and efforts for a digital thing with no lasting value that will disappear when the servers shut down, especially compared to what else could be achieved in real life witihn that time.

Maybe it's also a question of how and when one was introduced to gaming. I have the impression that games back in the 80s and 90s had a bigger focus on actually having fun during gameplay instead of getting into some grind that isn't fun itself anymore at some point, just to earn some "reward". In early gaming, the best "reward" you could get was your name in line 1 of the high score table anyway.

lillybit · January 12

Syldras wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Games are fun for many reasons but the one thing every game has in common is, if there is no effort needed to obtain or achieve anything, people stop playing.

The question is how big the effort should be. In the end it's an individual calculation whether something is worth the time or not. Some people don't mind grinding for some game item for dozens of hours, other people might find that too much time and efforts for a digital thing with no lasting value that will disappear when the servers shut down, especially compared to what else could be achieved in real life witihn that time.

Maybe it's also a question of how and when one was introduced to gaming. I have the impression that games back in the 80s and 90s had a bigger focus on actually having fun during gameplay instead of getting into some grind that isn't fun itself anymore at some point, just to earn some "reward". In early gaming, the best "reward" you could get was your name in line 1 of the high score table anyway.

I remember telling my kids about playing Sonic on the Megadrive, would've been early 90's. There was no save so you had to do the whole thing without losing all your lives. I lost count of the times I got to the final boss fight, died and had to start again from the very beginning.

There's always been a grind one way or another, it's just more for things now as less to just finish!

I got there in the end btw

Syldras · January 13

lillybit wrote: »

I remember telling my kids about playing Sonic on the Megadrive, would've been early 90's. There was no save so you had to do the whole thing without losing all your lives. I lost count of the times I got to the final boss fight, died and had to start again from the very beginning.
There's always been a grind one way or another, it's just more for things now as less to just finish!
I got there in the end btw

I remember those times! But doesn't it still make a little difference? Back then the "reward" was to have mastered the game, to have become skillful enough - in a specific playstyle you enjoyed - to finish it. Now people grind for digital items by doing game activities that they sometimes don't even like (no matter if that's trials, questing or ToT). And it never ends, there's always the new shiny item, and then often time-limited. I think that feels differently to how it was back then.

Arunei · January 13

@Soarora
I appreciate the sentiment but I mean I literally can't ahaha. I get overwhelmed SUPER easily, trying to keep track of different things like mechanics and all, and once I get overwhelmed I'm thrown off my rotation, no matter how simple it is, until I've died and have a chance to reset mentally (as until then I'm just panicking lol). It's a pain in the butt but I've been aware of this limitation for years now.

@DenverRalphy
I literally never said anything about putting a House behind "sweaty" content though? YOU were the one that brought up putting Houses behind harder content, so I'm a bit confused about claiming it's extreme that I brought something up because of an opinion. I wasn't doing that either, I was giving an anecdote about how people won't typically do harder content no matter what's behind it. And I also never said or implied that endgame content shouldn't have rewards tied to doing it, so...

@tomofhyrule
This will sound like I'm being a smart-butt but I promise it's sincere, but congratulations haha. There ARE people who will go try content they normally don't like or take part in if there's something they want tied to it, but most people won't (we see it every year when people complain about needing to do PvP stuff to get PvE rewards). I'm glad you were able to, as the kids say, git gud hehe. I'll be sitting over here squinting loudly at the Vet No Death challenge shaking my fist.

---

That stuff aside, getting the House clearly isn't going to be a challenge since you only need to do the intro quest for the Night Market (I can't imagine it requiring anything crazy). But I'm willing to bet upgrading it is going to involve a lot more involvement, and until the Night Market is put on the PTS next week, we won't know just how hard any of it actually is or not.