Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sucks for people who cannot play with others or who are incapable of doing anything harder than overland due to stuff like age, disability, hardware, etc.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

I've played with people who are near blind, who are deaf, who only have one hand, and who are past 70 years old.

I myself have sight issues, dexterity issues, and am no spring chicken - and I clear the hardest content in the game, because I put in the effort needed to.

i am disabled too and have also done some hard content, but not everything. Not everything is accessible to me and others.
A lot of mechanics require fast reaction time which i just cannot accomplish always.

Some mechanics like the recent Black Gem Foundry colour sigils at the end boss, are hard to see or not possible to see for some people, no idea if it got adjusted but i know it was like that at launch.

Just because other similar people are able to do something does not mean everyone is able to do it. Please understand this.

Yes please don't have anything locked behind playing the game, I would hate to be incentivized to play the game and would rather just pay crowns to unlock everything. (satire)

LunaFlora wrote: »

and yet disability does actually mean we cannot do everything. if something is inaccessible to us

Depends entiterly on why you think it is inaccessible. Accessibility is not handing someone something on a plate, it's letting them have the opportunity to get the plate.

I died yesterday in vOP on a no-death attempt. A run I have done many times without dying myself.

I died because my dexterity issues mean my reaction time from realisation to action is slow - that's how others would see it. What actually killed me is that I miscalculated the incoming damage I was taking, and by the time I realised and executed a roll dodge it was too late. Someone with quicker reactions would have lived, and so would I had I not made that initial miscalculation.

ZOS give plenty of warnings on when players need to move or not be there. There are even addons that can help move that warning forward by a couple of seconds. They are standardized and predictable - with the one exception I know of being SCP HM, that AoE warning is ludicrously quick.

Because they are predictable and come with warnings players can move to mitigate before it actually hits - something non-old, non-disabled players need to learn more than the other way around imo. Even in SCP there is a way to mitigate the very quick AoE. That isn't an accessibility issue, that's a player effort issue.

Can it be harder for some people? Absolutely! Are there simply real barriers that people can't overcome? Absolutely. But the one thing I will say about ZOS is that they do seem to have taken great pains to create windows in the gameplay that allow people to play extreme content that other games do not. That's one reason the inability to turn off visual clutter irks me so.

So you can play semantics and give all the specific examples you want, but when someone says a general statement such as "Sucks for people who cannot play with others or who are incapable of doing anything harder than overland due to stuff like age, disability, hardware, etc." I am going to push back.

i like that Night Market is getting added, it is nice to see new kind of content.

i simply hope it is accessible to me and other disabled players.
And if it is not, then i hope it gets a lower difficulty mode like how other zones are getting a Challenge mode.

more content is good.
Just make it accessible, this could mean letting us choose a lower difficulty mode or giving us optional buffs.

Personally,
as Craglorn and most nornal mode Dungeons do not cause problems for me, i will probably be fine in Night Market. But i am not everyone.

plus sometimes the inaccessibility in combat is strobing effects like lightning or screenwide flashes. Which we still do not have toggles for.

LunaFlora wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sucks for people who cannot play with others or who are incapable of doing anything harder than overland due to stuff like age, disability, hardware, etc.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

I've played with people who are near blind, who are deaf, who only have one hand, and who are past 70 years old.

I myself have sight issues, dexterity issues, and am no spring chicken - and I clear the hardest content in the game, because I put in the effort needed to.

i am disabled too and have also done some hard content, but not everything. Not everything is accessible to me and others.
A lot of mechanics require fast reaction time which i just cannot accomplish always.

Some mechanics like the recent Black Gem Foundry colour sigils at the end boss, are hard to see or not possible to see for some people, no idea if it got adjusted but i know it was like that at launch.

Just because other similar people are able to do something does not mean everyone is able to do it. Please understand this.

Popping in to say that yes, they fixed the black gem color sigils. I’ve run the hm/tri with color blind people. They reduced the glow around the sigils so you can now easily see the shape (circle for green, triangle for red, square for yellow). The tank can also choose which color is the safe one, as the boss absorbs the furthest 2 crystals. So, if someone’s red-green colorblind, they can say “hey, can you make the safe color red?” and the tank can just… do that.

I don't like certain activities in the game but I have no problem with rewards being locked behind them, in fact I think it's very important for the health of a game that all the various activities contain cool stuff so that players with different playstyles can all feel rewarded. If I like the reward I'll just learn to do the activity, and if it's something I can't do or I really don't like, then I'm fine to forego it. Like @Soarora said above, this mentality is indeed the reason we can't have nice things, and challenging activities, which demand a lot of effort and time, should have correspondingly meaningful rewards.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sucks for people who cannot play with others or who are incapable of doing anything harder than overland due to stuff like age, disability, hardware, etc.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

I've played with people who are near blind, who are deaf, who only have one hand, and who are past 70 years old.

I myself have sight issues, dexterity issues, and am no spring chicken - and I clear the hardest content in the game, because I put in the effort needed to.

It's great for you that you're able to do that. But everyone experiences age, disability, etc differently and there are several users who have discussed over the years how they simply can't do the harder stuff due to that. Some people can and some people can't for a variety of reasons. It is what it is.
eta
I don't think their experiences are anything to invalidate, personally. It's good to keep in mind that not everyone can do these things and that sucks for them. I think that zos keeps such players in mind has made this game really much more accessible than other games and I think that's a great thing.

SpiritKitten wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

This is why we can’t have nice things. People complained about worm wizard & beast personality, now we get nothing for dungeon challengers. No matter what the reward is, be it skin, personality, furnishing, or house, someone will want it without doing the content and someone will complain. Endgame players deserve meaningful rewards too, and a LOT of them are into housing as well. As long as all kinds of players can get rewards for doing their favorite content, I don’t see a problem. I would be fine if there’s a house reserved for the Emperor! achievement or from fishing or from completing all the quests in the game, all things I don’t intend on doing.

SpiritKitten wrote: »

And...it's only available for a limited time.

It will return and ZOS said it could even be permanent. Calling it limited time is like calling the exorcised witch cottage limited time for being tied to the witches festival.

They said it MAY return after 2026, depending on if people liked it.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/69137
"While access to the Night Market closes in June, don’t fret; Event Zones are intended to return in later Seasons. Future appearances of the Market will allow you to choose a different faction and explore this weird and wonderful realm in an all-new way."

Soarora wrote: »

This is why we can’t have nice things. People complained about worm wizard & beast personality, now we get nothing for dungeon challengers. No matter what the reward is, be it skin, personality, furnishing, or house, someone will want it without doing the content and someone will complain. Endgame players deserve meaningful rewards too, and a LOT of them are into housing as well. As long as all kinds of players can get rewards for doing their favorite content, I don’t see a problem. I would be fine if there’s a house reserved for the Emperor! achievement or from fishing or from completing all the quests in the game, all things I don’t intend on doing.

SpiritKitten wrote: »

And...it's only available for a limited time.

It will return and ZOS said it could even be permanent. Calling it limited time is like calling the exorcised witch cottage limited time for being tied to the witches festival.

This. There was a time when I didn't participate in endgame, and I knew I would never be good enough to get the godslayer mount, but it never bothered me that others would get it and I would not. I was happy and in awe of those players who could get that mount or the personalities or skins from trials. Those rewards were absolutely incredible, and it makes me so sad that rewards have been scaled back so much due to fomo. Now I'm lucky enough to have those things, but I remember a time when I thought I could never earn them- but honestly, good for those folks who can. It made getting better at the game worth it. And you nailed it when you mentioned that there are many endgame players who love housing, me being one of them. I'm excited that they're finally considering different rewards for difficult content beyond titles and crappy skins.

It'd be nice to have multiple options...

Example: say I get something the easy way – some players will hate this because they feel their effort is devalued. Fair enough. But what if us filthy casuals would have to wear the equivalent of a dunce cap for a while? Like a title – "I did this the idiot way!". I'd totally make that trade if it meant not spending hours on something I hate.

I'm fine trying anything, and even make a solid effort, depending. I've done Vet, HM, even played some ToT (hate the latter).

If they locked a house behind ToT or Emperor?

Seriously depends on the house. If it was perfect for my idea, I'd be bummed, yeah. Given the option, I'd much rather pay gold for a carry or whatever. While I've never done that, I'd have zero shame about it because I get things for my own enjoyment / use in my projects, not to show off.

Sometimes I just choose to ignore things, while hoping for a similar option / improvements:
There's a specific dye I really want, but it's from BGs... Nope. I wish they'd do a similar color for PVE. (And it's not like that's unprecedented; many other colors have near-dupes.) Likewise, I stopped buying Solstice Treasure Maps: for me, it's extremely stupid to spend 10s of millions of gold – and even worse, months of my time – getting nothing but junk. I'd rather wait for a similar item to the one I wanted, or for costs & RNG issues to improve. Maybe forever.

It can be a lose-lose too: This type of player who never liked "the journey" will drop off as soon as they get to "the destination". That's fine for everyone who just wanted to do it once! But maybe disappointing for those who hope for converts and recurring groups.

I prefer the market: you play that, I play this, we trade and everybody's happy.
.

The argument that "I don't want to participate in activities or try challenges, but I want the rewards" really needs to stop. Trying to gain without effort or avoiding challenges only makes the game increasingly boring. When you're playing God mode, easily accumulating wealth without any cost, trade-offs, or learning, you'll ultimately only feel empty.

Should top players receive better rewards than average players? I think absolutely. They earn their right to better rewards through talent and hard work. If you crave those rewards, then you should try to learn, practice, and strive to win them.

You wouldn't demand an NBA ring unconditionally just because NBA players have won them and you haven't, right?

I think I may have mentioned before, if there's a house involved, I'm going to try and get it!

My list of disability's sadly gets longer not shorter and quite frequently I can do harder content BUT the speed I learn it and the fact my DPS isn't the best keeps me from inflicting myself on other people.

My DPS might not be high end but I am pretty good at keeping myself alive, so I can learn fights solo, especially with a well equipped Tank Companion in tow.

I can solo Nymic's, it's not pretty nor fast but if it's just me that doesn't matter, so I am hoping the Night Market will be of similar difficulty.

LPapirius wrote: »

If a person wants to get paid, they have to put in the work. That's how it's supposed to be.

It's a game, not work. 😏

Wildberryjack wrote: »

This is where guilds come in. For things like this we organize guild runs so players who aren't as strong can still get the rewards. Talk to your guildmasters.

I've done this for many players on the hunt for the Lunar Championn tablets.

Decimus wrote: »

There are currently 116 Houses in the game, many of them purchasable in game, some earned with Event Tickets - I think it's fine if at the very least one of them is earned by doing "difficult" content.

If anything, the game needs more different and varied rewards for doing the more "difficult" content.

Agreed.

I also want to note that, unless i missed something, the home is associated with the night market, but we have no idea what that entails or means. So, rather than worrying about potentialities, let's wait & see what they do with this and cross that bridge when it comes.