Now is the time! CAPES ! ! !

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · January 12

Forget capes, we need cloaks so we can clip our way into being False Dreamers

Real Sharmats wear cloaks.

Soarora · January 12

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

The thing that gets me about the no capes argument is that we have base-game hair styles that move. And the flaps on chest pieces. It wouldn’t look the best (especially since the flaps don’t even sit right), but wouldn’t it be technically possible to apply those physics to a cape?

No wings though, except maybe on some polymorphs. Temporary wings from spells makes sense. Walking around with wings doesn’t. I don’t know of a single person in TES to do that (aside from Sarpa argonians) and surely someone would if they could.

There are at least 2, maybe 3 armor styles I the game with "wings"

Nowhere near real wings. I’m all for more armor styles with fake wings like those have. My concern’s more about conjuration, alteration, and illusion magic with people summoning wings for long periods of time. It could be argued that technically someone could, but I’m sure it’s a massive magicka drain and no one’s said to have done it. There could be Dwemer wings that are steampunkish… but certainly not something the average person could get their hands on either.

Malyore · January 12

Soarora wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

The thing that gets me about the no capes argument is that we have base-game hair styles that move. And the flaps on chest pieces. It wouldn’t look the best (especially since the flaps don’t even sit right), but wouldn’t it be technically possible to apply those physics to a cape?

No wings though, except maybe on some polymorphs. Temporary wings from spells makes sense. Walking around with wings doesn’t. I don’t know of a single person in TES to do that (aside from Sarpa argonians) and surely someone would if they could.

There are at least 2, maybe 3 armor styles I the game with "wings"

Nowhere near real wings. I’m all for more armor styles with fake wings like those have. My concern’s more about conjuration, alteration, and illusion magic with people summoning wings for long periods of time. It could be argued that technically someone could, but I’m sure it’s a massive magicka drain and no one’s said to have done it. There could be Dwemer wings that are steampunkish… but certainly not something the average person could get their hands on either.

It's less about what could be done and more about what should be done.

We could use dwemer tonal tech to have someone travel back in time from the 5th era and create a cult of digital TV heads from c0da. Lots of cosmetic options open up with that.
But should we?

Again, I think adding wings would be in poor taste.
The skins and mounts in this game are very truly bad enough. And I also very much hope this discussion is moot– that ZOS will never consider adding "MMO wings".

As I had mentioned in my prior replies, capes' integration into the game would need to be considerately and cautiously approached, in order to avoid the same problem.

frogthroat · January 12

If it would come, I would want it as a new slot and not only cosmetic like the disguise slot. I wouldn't mind a 13th slot even if it would mean I need to go back to all dungeons, trials and overlands to get the now-missing back items for all sets.

But on the other hand, it would mess with every existing build idea. It would make it possible to have a full monster set, an always on 5pc set, a 5pc set on one bar, an arena weapon on the other, and a mythic. It would for sure cause power creep and pretty much invalidate all previous builds and create a whole new meta.

edit: Hm. And also other, new combinations like 5pc always on, 5pc front bar and 5pc back bar sets.

Gabriel_H · January 12

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I feel The clipping argument is just silly...Yes there is clipping, all games has it and ESO is already bad

I understand some people dislike cloaks, but

Honestly guys...It's really simple you don't have to wear them....and if you can tolerate the clipping that already exists in ESO; then someone running by in a cloak won't kill you...also The same folks saying "No Capes" are the exact same folks who said we would never get solo Dungeons.

For the game vets..Just remember how hard Rich worked to make it happen finally giving up in frustration...if a opportunity comes up to do it I can see him taking it...especially if they made Cloaks Crown Store items...that would be a windfall for Zenimax.

ESO is getting long in the tooth...the devs need to add more cosmetic choices....and to be honest I believe this is more about the Schadenfreude of seeing others being denied something than the actual issues Cloaks would bring.

That's my Two shekel's.

A masssively flawed premise if ever I say one.

Just because something bad is already there doesn't mean you should add more of it.
I'm oppossed to capes, unless the have a working physics engine, and without that it probably won't kill me but my OCD may disagree.
I've never said we wouldn't get solo arenas dungeons, just and FYI. (And if you think "Challenge Mode" isn't just ZOS selling you the same old Arena model as something new I have some bad news for you).
ESO is getting old? Yeah, and they are doing entire class refreshes, visual updates, and are constantly putting in new cosmetics.

Gabriel_H · January 12

M0ntie wrote: »

People upset about clipping of capes - how on earth do you cope with all the other clipping, and floating hip flaps and all the other inaccurate aesthetics in the game? You have to see that and you're still here, I'm sure you'll survive with capes.

We complain about it and ask them to fix it. Sadly, instead of investing development time in doing so, ZOS invest in creating shiny baubles to distract the masses.

Warhawke_80 · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I feel The clipping argument is just silly...Yes there is clipping, all games has it and ESO is already bad

I understand some people dislike cloaks, but

Honestly guys...It's really simple you don't have to wear them....and if you can tolerate the clipping that already exists in ESO; then someone running by in a cloak won't kill you...also The same folks saying "No Capes" are the exact same folks who said we would never get solo Dungeons.

For the game vets..Just remember how hard Rich worked to make it happen finally giving up in frustration...if a opportunity comes up to do it I can see him taking it...especially if they made Cloaks Crown Store items...that would be a windfall for Zenimax.

ESO is getting long in the tooth...the devs need to add more cosmetic choices....and to be honest I believe this is more about the Schadenfreude of seeing others being denied something than the actual issues Cloaks would bring.

That's my Two shekel's.

A masssively flawed premise if ever I say one.

Just because something bad is already there doesn't mean you should add more of it.
I'm oppossed to capes, unless the have a working physics engine, and without that it probably won't kill me but my OCD may disagree.
I've never said we wouldn't get solo arenas dungeons, just and FYI. (And if you think "Challenge Mode" isn't just ZOS selling you the same old Arena model as something new I have some bad news for you).
ESO is getting old? Yeah, and they are doing entire class refreshes, visual updates, and are constantly putting in new cosmetics.

Huh...
oh well nothing you said makes me change my mind so we are at a impasse. I know for a fact that if they could they would...so to me it's just a waiting game

whitecrow · January 12

M0ntie wrote: »

100% we need capes! The whole medieval feel of the game needs capes.

People upset about clipping of capes - how on earth do you cope with all the other clipping, and floating hip flaps and all the other inaccurate aesthetics in the game? You have to see that and you're still here, I'm sure you'll survive with capes.

The only clipping I ever noticed on my character was when I used the Troll King bow style and the blade on it kept slicing the top of my head off. Haven't use that style in a long time, so, not really an issue.

SolarRune · January 12

I'm sure capes were part of the early game but they were cut for performance reasons.

BardokRedSnow · January 12

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Well, I'd much rather rock a cape than a guild tabard that replaces my chestpiece, thats probably the best argument for capes Ive seen.

Good news! Soon you will not need a tabbard to rep your guild.

Oh was that a change they announced? Thats awesome!

LunaFlora · January 12

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Well, I'd much rather rock a cape than a guild tabard that replaces my chestpiece, thats probably the best argument for capes Ive seen.

Good news! Soon you will not need a tabbard to rep your guild.

Oh was that a change they announced? Thats awesome!

yes for update 49

Syldras · January 12

whitecrow wrote: »

The only clipping I ever noticed on my character was when I used the Troll King bow style and the blade on it kept slicing the top of my head off. Haven't use that style in a long time, so, not really an issue.

Longer hair often clips with collars, and costumes that have some kind of backpack clip with shields and weapons.

But I do think it comes down to individual choice there - if the clipping is too bad, I personally don't use a costume, but I'm not bothered by other people using it. Let's be honest, how long do we look at other characters anyway? I personally see them running past me for a second most of the time so I don't even notice what they're wearing at all.

Malyore · February 14

Since @ZOS_Icy closed a still relevant thread discussing this (see here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/659401/cloaks#latest ) due to the thread being old– without linking the most recent thread as the more appropriate place to discuss it– I'm bumping this thread for people who wish to continue the conversation that had recently resurged.

AllenaNightWood · February 14

im actaully partial to backpacks

Malyore · February 14

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

im actaully partial to backpacks

There are a small amount of costumes that have those I think. What are your thoughts on their already existent implementation?

What I'd want is the argonian tailpacks that I'm pretty sure have been seen in the CGI trailers.

zaria · February 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

WoW:

GW2:

LOTRO:

Clipping, clipping, and clipping. It's hideous.

This it don't work well with weapons on the back nor tails,
You can get it to work if you have no weapons on back or tails. I remember wow capes of being shorter.
Regarding tails khajiit and argonians don't have the back flap as it would clip horrible with tails.

Malyore · February 14

zaria wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

WoW:

GW2:

LOTRO:

Clipping, clipping, and clipping. It's hideous.

This it don't work well with weapons on the back nor tails,
You can get it to work if you have no weapons on back or tails. I remember wow capes of being shorter.
Regarding tails khajiit and argonians don't have the back flap as it would clip horrible with tails.

That's a good point, it would probably take an additional strain of effort to always bend the tailbones down to not clip. There are solutions for weapons, but the tails would probably be trickier.

Or they could do what they do with our hair when we put on hoods. Shave it off. Do argonian tails grow back?

zaria · February 14

Malyore wrote: »

I gotta draw a personal line with wings. To my knowledge, that has never been a form of attire anywhere in the entirety of the elder scrolls franchise.
Having people wearing Halloween costume wings would absolutely break any tastefulness and immersion left in ESO.

Wing slots are not part of this game.

And I do know there are already some armor styles that have wing-like motifs in ESO specifically, which are attached to a chest piece. But whenever capes get mentioned, someone usually starts thinking the next logical step is to turn themselves into an elf dragon fairy hybrid with flaming wings. And THAT is what I mean by not being part of the franchise. If you want wings, use one of the 3 armor sets that have a pair of rods and feathers sticking out the backside.

You had real world outfits with wings like the winged hussars who is close to the ESO styles.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Straz_hetmanska.JPG
Daggerfall had cloaks but it was just an paper doll system and you put on everything for more enchant slots.
Morrowind lower body: Pants, greaves, boots and skirt. Upper body shirt, breastplate two pauldrons and gauntlets now add an robe and helmet. You can also have belt two rings and an amulet.
It was a bit to much I like the ESO system who is like Oblivion except you can wear pants or skirts under robes.

Katahdin · February 15

If you want to see what capes in this game would look like, look at the Breton costume with the cape pasted to the character's but

Malyore · February 15

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want to see what capes in this game would look like, look at the Breton costume with the cape pasted to the character's but

You believe that is what people are asking for when they request capes?

tomofhyrule · February 15

Malyore wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want to see what capes in this game would look like, look at the Breton costume with the cape pasted to the character's but

You believe that is what people are asking for when they request capes?

Just because that's not what people are asking for doesn't mean that's how it would end up. After all, ask the "we want overland difficulty" crowd how excited they are that they're getting a self-nerf slider and non-instanced zones instead of new mechanics on every boss.

Besides, there's something relevant in one of the many Crossplay threads:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

Fully-animated cloaks (i.e. cloaks like people are asking for that aren't glued to your butt) would take dev time to get them to function properly. That's dev time that could go to something else. We already are seeing the fanbase start tearing each other apart due to some of the sacrifices made this year (this is the third consecutive year with no new Classes, the second with no new Companions, the first with no new Dungeons, the first with no major zones).
Is "oh boy, I have a flap of fabric clipping with my back weapons!" worth what that might cause us not to get in the future?

Malyore · February 15

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want to see what capes in this game would look like, look at the Breton costume with the cape pasted to the character's but

You believe that is what people are asking for when they request capes?

Just because that's not what people are asking for doesn't mean that's how it would end up. After all, ask the "we want overland difficulty" crowd how excited they are that they're getting a self-nerf slider and non-instanced zones instead of new mechanics on every boss.

Besides, there's something relevant in one of the many Crossplay threads:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

Fully-animated cloaks (i.e. cloaks like people are asking for that aren't glued to your butt) would take dev time to get them to function properly. That's dev time that could go to something else. We already are seeing the fanbase start tearing each other apart due to some of the sacrifices made this year (this is the third consecutive year with no new Classes, the second with no new Companions, the first with no new Dungeons, the first with no major zones).
Is "oh boy, I have a flap of fabric clipping with my back weapons!" worth what that might cause us not to get in the future?

Yeah, the aspect of triage makes sense. I'd would much rather they put effort into other places.

ThoraxtheDark · February 15

I want capes its been almost 12 years.

I cant believe i am reading people not interested in capes because of clipping

If clipping bothers you play a different game.

WE WANT CAPES ZOS

Apollosipod · February 15

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

I want capes its been almost 12 years.

I cant believe i am reading people not interested in capes because of clipping

If clipping bothers you play a different game.

WE WANT CAPES ZOS

I mean, I don't think a lot of the counter comments here are anti-cape. I think the differing opinions are between people who want them and people who rightfully acknowledge that the engine simply couldn't handle them. It would end up like the Breton costume. Fabric in this game doesn't move so is it even really a cape at that point? If I cared about clipping I wouldn't play ESO lol. [snip]
[edited for flaming]

ThoraxtheDark · February 15

Apollosipod wrote: »

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

I want capes its been almost 12 years.

I cant believe i am reading people not interested in capes because of clipping

If clipping bothers you play a different game.

WE WANT CAPES ZOS

I mean, I don't think a lot of the counter comments here are anti-cape. I think the differing opinions are between people who want them and people who rightfully acknowledge that the engine simply couldn't handle them. It would end up like the Breton costume. Fabric in this game doesn't move so is it even really a cape at that point? If I cared about clipping I wouldn't play ESO lol. [snip]

[snip]

Unless you are a dev you prob dont know how the engine will work. Carry on fren
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Apollosipod · February 15

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

I want capes its been almost 12 years.

I cant believe i am reading people not interested in capes because of clipping

If clipping bothers you play a different game.

WE WANT CAPES ZOS

I mean, I don't think a lot of the counter comments here are anti-cape. I think the differing opinions are between people who want them and people who rightfully acknowledge that the engine simply couldn't handle them. It would end up like the Breton costume. Fabric in this game doesn't move so is it even really a cape at that point? If I cared about clipping I wouldn't play ESO lol. [snip]

[snip]

Unless you are a dev you prob dont know how the engine will work. Carry on fren
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Sure, but I have been playing this game for a long time and understand the general capabilities of a decade old game engine. During recent animation changes for combat stances a ton of mementos and animations were broken. That does not weigh heavily in favor of the current engine built over a decade ago that even the devs themselves have repeatedly said have issues. Even if the engine were capable of it the other dev claim for performance restrictions has been the older hardware they have to build around.

We can both want capes (I'd love it too), but it doesn't change the reality of what the game can actually do

Oblivion_Protocol · February 15

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

Unless you are a dev you prob dont know how the engine will work. Carry on fren

I mentioned this in another thread, but I’ll also bring it up here. This game is based on the Hero Engine, the same engine behind SWTOR. There are a lot of capes and cloaks in SWTOR, which makes sense because a hooded cloak is a classic part of both the Jedi and Sith aesthetic.

The problem was that clipping was a regular occurrence. Cloaks and capes would clip through legs, some hoods clipped through certain hairstyles or helmets, and mounts just made things weird.

So, having seen how the Hero Engine deals with capes, and know how ESO graphics behave, I can confidently say it wouldn’t be great.

alternatelder · February 15

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

Unless you are a dev you prob dont know how the engine will work. Carry on fren

I mentioned this in another thread, but I’ll also bring it up here. This game is based on the Hero Engine, the same engine behind SWTOR. There are a lot of capes and cloaks in SWTOR, which makes sense because a hooded cloak is a classic part of both the Jedi and Sith aesthetic.

The problem was that clipping was a regular occurrence. Cloaks and capes would clip through legs, some hoods clipped through certain hairstyles or helmets, and mounts just made things weird.

So, having seen how the Hero Engine deals with capes, and know how ESO graphics behave, I can confidently say it wouldn’t be great.

*Based on HeroEngine, yes, but it has been mentioned ESO's engine is built from scratch, so not exactly the HeroEngine, they only used it for a prototype before using the new one they built for production. Doesn't mean they can put capes in just because SWTOR has them with Hero.

Malyore · February 15

Apollosipod wrote: »

Fabric in this game doesn't move

It does.

ISO_Flow · February 16

I really cant comprehend why this ask ha been so strongly refused forever