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I've had enough of fighting Assassination/Aedric/Animal builds

hoangdz
hoangdz
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In more than half of my fights, I have to deal with someone running Assassination, Animal Companion, Aedric Spear, or either of those combinations. It's not even that I can't counter them, it's that these builds are far better than the rest, which makes it pretty annoying and flat out lame now. Sub-classing promised hundreds of combinations but let's be real, anybody with an ounce of theory-crafting knew only a few combinations are worth running while the rest are mediocre. You pretty much cannot drop either of those 3 lines because they are simply TOO GOOD compared to other lines (even Storm Calling which is another amazing utility line).

Either buff other lines or nerf those 3 please.
Edited by hoangdz on November 20, 2025 10:02AM
  • FoJul
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    hoangdz wrote: »
    In more than half of my fights, I have to deal with someone running Assassination, Animal Companion, Aedric Spear, or either of those combinations. It's not even that I can't counter them, it's that these builds are far better than the rest, which makes it pretty annoying and flat out lame now. Sub-classing promised hundreds of combinations but let's be real, anybody with an ounce of theory-crafting knew only a few combinations are worth running while the rest are mediocre. You pretty much cannot drop either of those 3 lines because they are simply TOO GOOD compared to other lines (even Storm Calling which is another amazing utility line).

    Either buff other lines or nerf those 3 please.

    No use brother, just uninstall like the rest.
  • Vulkunne
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    Yep. And the bad thing about Templar is many of these builds are using the gap closer to. It's virtually impossible to fight them in PvP, and because of the gap closer it's almost impossible to ignore them. Once they get inside you either get out of the way or get trampled. We go from one extreme to the other.

    I still play ESO, however because of things like this and computer groups I have completely stopped going to Cyrodiil. Its not a war anymore, it's like an umm.. like a giant Battlegrounds now.
    I completely and very respectfully disagree with changes to DK Burning Embers, Venomous Smite and removing Poison damage from the DK Class abilities.
  • keto3000
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    I"m done trying to subclassing any builds. Im making al mine purecalls again as best I can.

    SUBCLASSING is a messed up, half-assed sort of system to me. Either develop pure classes & allow us to make them unique or get rid of classes altogether and just let us build our toons from a scratch creationtemplate using whatever skills and passives we want.
    “The point of power is always in the present moment.”

    ― Louise L. Hay
  • xylena
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    keto3000 wrote: »
    SUBCLASSING is a messed up, half-assed sort of system to me. Either develop pure classes & allow us to make them unique or get rid of classes altogether and just let us build our toons from a scratch creationtemplate using whatever skills and passives we want.
    Right, it's like there's not enough freedom to really "play how you want" with RP theme builds, yet there's way too much freedom to run busted skill combos without drawback. Still can't believe they allowed the switching of passives, imo that's what really breaks it both mechanically and thematically. Class identity wouldn't be as weakened if everyone kept their passives.

    Warframe's version of subclassing only allows switching 1 specially designated active skill, and nerfs the subclassed version of that skill if needed, so then only the pure class gets the full power version of it. Subclassing Assassination wouldn't break the meta if it was only limited to active skills, no passives, and subclassed spectral bows do 20% less damage or whatever.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP
  • FoJul
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    xylena wrote: »
    keto3000 wrote: »
    SUBCLASSING is a messed up, half-assed sort of system to me. Either develop pure classes & allow us to make them unique or get rid of classes altogether and just let us build our toons from a scratch creationtemplate using whatever skills and passives we want.
    Right, it's like there's not enough freedom to really "play how you want" with RP theme builds, yet there's way too much freedom to run busted skill combos without drawback. Still can't believe they allowed the switching of passives, imo that's what really breaks it both mechanically and thematically. Class identity wouldn't be as weakened if everyone kept their passives.

    Warframe's version of subclassing only allows switching 1 specially designated active skill, and nerfs the subclassed version of that skill if needed, so then only the pure class gets the full power version of it. Subclassing Assassination wouldn't break the meta if it was only limited to active skills, no passives, and subclassed spectral bows do 20% less damage or whatever.

    Assassinations kit isn't the problem though. In a sense it's a pure DPS skill line unlike other skill lines, but Animal companions having a burst/sustain/and healing factor in their core DPS kit makes this subclassed meta the META. Whenever Night blades sustain/dps/healing are all split up, Wardens/necros/and Arcanist are not.

    This allows You to pick Up assassination with no drawbacks (usually you would have to factor in sustain and healing to add to your kit) but Animal companions give you both healing and sustain, while also giving you even more crit damage which buffs the 20k merciless resolves you get hit by.

    Assassination isn't the issue, Animal companions is.

  • Turtle_Bot
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    Animal Companions is definitely it's own issue, but that doesn't mean Assassination isn't a massive issue as well.

    1. It's the only line to grant massive crit chance bonuses that pushes already strong lines such as animal companions and aedric spear (that have massive crit damage bonuses but no crit chance) and storm calling (that has good procs off dealing crit damage but no way to buff crit chance) over the top.
    2. Assassination's buffs to crit chance not only buff damage, but also massively buffs healing at the same time in ways that no other line can buff healing (the passives are not limited to crit damage only, but works for both crit damage and crit healing).

    These 2 factors are why Assassination is so absurdly strong (not only for damage, but healing as well), and it's also why, pre-sub-classing, healthy offering was so much stronger in practice than HtD, and other class burst heals, despite having the same tooltips, it's because none of those class heals had access the levels of crit buffs that Assassination granted to Offering.

    Heal soul is also another issue, allowing for the ability to mix 3 damage lines while keeping a strong and reliable burst heal, but that also doesn't excuse just how problematic Assassination is for the game with how much it buffs crit chance that buffs both damage and healing in ways that are completely unmatched by anything else/any other line in the game.

    Even if Assassination only granted access to it's active abilities when sub-classed, it would still be one of the strongest lines available in sub-classing thanks having one of the the strongest class spammables, an amazing ST ultimate that has the strongest single DPS debuff in the game, and the hardest hitting ability in the game, but at least it would only be a DPS line, not a buff everything line due to how crit chance works in ESO and how unrestricted the crit chance buffs in Assassination are.
  • xylena
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    FoJul wrote: »
    Assassination isn't the issue, Animal companions is
    Not mutually exclusive, Assassination is absolutely busted, and Storm Calling causes the same problems as Animals, with a similarly overloaded package of both damage and utility.

    There's no end to problems like this with the GH build system. It can not be salvaged.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP
  • FoJul
    FoJul
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Animal Companions is definitely it's own issue, but that doesn't mean Assassination isn't a massive issue as well.

    1. It's the only line to grant massive crit chance bonuses that pushes already strong lines such as animal companions and aedric spear (that have massive crit damage bonuses but no crit chance) and storm calling (that has good procs off dealing crit damage but no way to buff crit chance) over the top.
    2. Assassination's buffs to crit chance not only buff damage, but also massively buffs healing at the same time in ways that no other line can buff healing (the passives are not limited to crit damage only, but works for both crit damage and crit healing).

    These 2 factors are why Assassination is so absurdly strong (not only for damage, but healing as well), and it's also why, pre-sub-classing, healthy offering was so much stronger in practice than HtD, and other class burst heals, despite having the same tooltips, it's because none of those class heals had access the levels of crit buffs that Assassination granted to Offering.

    Heal soul is also another issue, allowing for the ability to mix 3 damage lines while keeping a strong and reliable burst heal, but that also doesn't excuse just how problematic Assassination is for the game with how much it buffs crit chance that buffs both damage and healing in ways that are completely unmatched by anything else/any other line in the game.

    Even if Assassination only granted access to it's active abilities when sub-classed, it would still be one of the strongest lines available in sub-classing thanks having one of the the strongest class spammables an amazing ST ultimate that has the strongest single DPS debuff in the game, and the hardest hitting ability in the game, but at least it would only be a DPS line, not a buff everything line due to how crit chance works in ESO and how unrestricted the crit chance buffs in Assassination are.

    Well tbh its the way this particular build synergizes, each skill line is busted in its own sense. Assassination is a pure dps skill line, you can say that it buffs healing, but only by raising your crit chance. Realistically, Assassination has the major and minor savagery, a little more crit for slitting more assassination skills, which usually is 2 skills on your bar, maybe 3 if you use concealed.

    This skill line does provide a little more crit chance and its all in one skill line, because like I said before its a DPS skill line. If you use this same mindset, stacking weapon/spell dmg via Aedric spear/Storm calling, you can essentially get 7k weapon/spell quite easily. This is the same difference.

    I think animal companions is still the more busted skill line. You use warden and get class skill for scribe skill, the best delayed burst ability in the game that is also major and minor breach, Sustain, PURGES, and crit damage.

    Like I said tho, its the way the entire build synergizes with itself. Theres no real way of fixing it without moving skills from skill lines. Gonna have to suffer till it gets fixed. Me personally, im enjoying my time away from ESO atm.
  • Turtle_Bot
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    The synergy of the build is definitely a big issue, it does synergize better than even pure classes used to, especially thanks to scribing and heal soul.

    However, crit chance is the single most dense stat in the game (for both damage and healing) and no other skill line (even multiple lines combined) comes close to providing as much crit chance as what assassination provides. There's a massive (and exponentially scaling) difference between stacking crit chance and stacking weapon/spell damage.
    There's a reason crit chance is supposed to be insanely hard to source, especially in PvP and a reason Assassination (even post spec bow "nerf") is still slotted alongside Herald of the Tome in PvE as the main 2 DPS lines and Aedric Spear, Storm Calling, Ardent Flame and Animal Companions are the 3rd "filler" option lines for PvE DPS builds. Stacking crit chance is just that strong compared to stacking any other stat in the game and it works for both healing and damage.

    Math inside spoiler:
    On a basic build with no other crit chance, just Assassination alone, 40% crit chance is a very low baseline, something that would take multiple 5 piece sets + non-class skills + specific weapons equipped (daggers) just to reach, completely nullifying the ability for a build without Assassination to slot in extra bonuses in other areas such as crit damage, pen, sustain, raw damage, etc.

    Note that most competent builds will sit around 5.5k to 6k weapon/spell damage, so stacking to 7k is more like a 15% increase, not a 20% increase in damage done that I am using for these calculations.

    Assuming a baseline 100% crit damage done (achievable on a weapon/spell damage build, but will likely only have ~20% crit rate):

    Stacking weapon/spell damage will increase the base damage of the skills by about 20% on average, but they would still only have an ~20% crit rate. This means that the crit chance is only effectively providing a 20% damage increase to those skills on average (20% of 100 is 20). Adding the +20% increase from weapon/spell damage buffs, that's approximately a 40% increase in damage total on average.

    Stacking crit rate so that it reaches 50% (something beyond extremely easy to do when using Assassination), even though there's no additional damage buffs to those skills from stacked weapon/spell damage, the crit rate alone boosts the average damage done by 50%, which is significantly higher than stacking weapon/spell damage. This also assumes only Assassination and no other sources, it's very easy to reach 60%+ crit chance with Assassination slotted + sets like Null Arca making this difference even higher).

    This disparity when stacking crit chance compared to weapon/spell damage is also increased when looking at the meta build itself that easily hits the 125% crit cap (often sitting at 140% and I have seen 160% possible to completely mitigate enemies crit resists, even with rallying cry active).

    20% of 125 is 25, so stacking the 20% weapon/spell damage with the 20% crit rate at crit damage cap would be a 45% increase in damage total on average (still below the 50% from stacking crit chance at 100% crit damage), while stacking crit chance increases the average damage done from 50% to 62.5%. Widening that gap from 10% to 17.5% (nearly doubling that gap)
    Scale this up to the 160% crit damage (enough to ignore enemies crit resists and assuming this crit damage stat is possible to reach on a weapon/spell damage stacking build), and you're looking at 52% increase to damage done on average for a weapon/spell damage stacking build, meanwhile a crit stacking build reaches a whopping 80% increased damage done on average.

    This also applies to healing, where there's significantly less ways to buff crit healing. Even at a reduced 80% bonus to crit healing (easily reached on a crit build, even not that hard to reach on a non-crit build), this still puts it on par with stacking weapon/spell damage in terms of average output.

    I don't have the exact math/formula behind weapon/spell damage stacking, but to match the current average damage done increases that crit chance provides, you're looking at probably around 8k weapon/spell damage at the bare minimum and this value is more like 10k+ weapon/spell damage when using crit damage cap values (125%) instead of significantly lower values that would be on a damage stacking build, not a crit stacking build.

    To reach such values to match crit rate stackings average increases, you're looking at a full PvE DPS build (with group buffs), which has zero survivability, or slotting storm calling + aedric spear + minor brutality/sorcery (dawns wrath or earthen heart) + 2 5 piece weapon/spell damage sets + multiple named buffs, just to reach the minimum threshold and this build wouldn't even get close to the 100% crit damage done stat I used for my values above without massive group support which would make that minimum threshold even higher than previously stated.

    Meanwhile stacking crit chance, just slot Assassination + the current BiS 5 piece set (null arca) to match the same increases to damage that stacking all that weapon/spell damage required above and the rest of the build is free to use whatever else I want to stack up other stats as needed/desired.

    Even your own example requires stacking 2 skill lines (Aedric Spear and Storm Calling) just to "match" what slotting Assassination does in terms of increasing healing/damage. That's how overtuned Assassination and crit chance is.

    Assassination would be significantly less of an issue if it's crit rate only worked for damage. (i.e. if ZOS had separate crit rates for damage and healing). Even then it would still be the strongest DPS line, it just wouldn't have the added defensive utility of overbuffing healing as well, but as it currently stands, there's literally no other single skill line (not even multiple lines combined) that can match what Assassination provides for a build due to how dense crit rate is as a stat (for damage and healing) and how much crit rate Assassination grants on its own.
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