ESO´s Population is lowered to 2017 level

SummersetCitizen · December 25

SilverBride wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Live tweeting your Christmas? What does opening presents and watching Price is Right have to do with ESO?

There is more than one thread up about the Holidays today, such as this one that an admin even took part it. ESO players are a community and it's natural they want to wish each other well on the biggest holiday season of the year.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/686812/happy-holidays#latest

But what does this have to do with me presenting my honest feedback?

I am highlighting two related issues.

First, there are social-media-style threads that are entirely unrelated to the game and receive minimal engagement. I would argue that these should be removed, as they contribute nothing to ESO-related discussion.

Second, inserting oneself into another person’s thread to deliver a consistently pro-ZOS, emotionally driven argument reliably generates far more engagement.

People ultimately receive the engagement they seek. Meanwhile, the rest of the community becomes exhausted, as this pattern repeats itself endlessly.

This concern has been raised many times on the forums, yet for reasons that are unclear, no meaningful action is ever taken.

SilverBride · December 25

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

I am highlighting two related issues.

First, there are social-media-style threads that are entirely unrelated to the game and receive minimal engagement. I would argue that these should be removed, as they contribute nothing to ESO-related discussion.

Second, inserting oneself into another person’s thread to deliver a consistently pro-ZOS, emotionally driven argument reliably generates far more engagement.

People ultimately receive the engagement they seek. Meanwhile, the rest of the community becomes exhausted, as this pattern repeats itself endlessly.

This concern has been raised many times on the forums, yet for reasons that are unclear, no meaningful action is ever taken.

I do not use social media, but as I stated I see nothing wrong with the ESO community engaging in a friendly manner on special occasions. Or just plain having fun as a community. Players that aren't interested can just pass these threads by.

And I am not looking for more engagement other than discussing the game where I participated in the Beta and have also played many years. So what is ZoS supposed to do? What kind of meaningful action are we talking about? Are they supposed to prevent feel good threads that have always been a part of these forums? Or make a rule that only those that agree with a topic can reply?

And on that note, I am finished with this conversation.

hiyde · December 25

Steam's analytics are fact. If a multibillion dollar company were faking numbers, that would have been exposed by now. Game publishers would be shouting it from the rooftops and calling in their legal teams over the damage that misrepresenting player numbers would cause. There is absolutely no reason to believe that whatever is happening on Steam, isn't similarly happening on every other platform. (Especially since, to swap platforms, you gotta start over).

What the publisher has to say on the state of the game after 2025:

"...We stumbled..." (Solstice/Writhing Wall Event)

'...Subclassing introduced and highlighted issues with class identity."

"Players have been asking us to be more transparent and communicate better; to provide a more rewarding experience; to be more exciting; to address long-standing issues and pain points; to improve combat, class identity, and PvP; and generally make more investment in the core game experience"

"...there’s been a disconnect with the words we’ve communicated and what we’ve released subsequently"

That would not have been the focus on the end-of-year wrapup if this had been a banner year for player count & revenue. Kudos to ZOS for that honest self-reflection. That honestly gave me more hope for the future.

The question isn't whether the numbers are trending down. That's been answered.

The question is, how can the community & ZOS work together to carve out a better path for 2026 & beyond. We all love this game and want it to have a solid future for years to come.

Also, while I get that ZOS has to work with whatever budget MS allows for this project, one key thing that needs to be worked on is to match level of hype to what's actually coming. A BIG part of the blowback this year was the Hype of Writhing Wall vs. The Reality of what we got. There's something to be said for Overdelivering vs. falling massively short of the expectations ZOS put out there.

And yeah, gaslighting/stealth trolling is most def a thing here on the forums. I wish ZOS would do a better job of looking at the big picture of a few people's post histories here and having a frank conversation with those members to cut it out (or lose posting access). There are indeed people who will not post feedback out of fear of being trolled/baited/reported. It's affected my own posting here.

SummersetCitizen · December 25

I came across a Reddit thread from two years ago (although many others exist) in which people were already raising concerns about the same derailments, moderation and rage-baiting.

This has been a well-known issue for quite some time.

<snip>

It becomes very difficult to have meaningful discussions.
<snipped for Discussing Disciplinary Actions>

Radiate77 · December 26

hiyde wrote: »

And yeah, gaslighting/stealth trolling is most def a thing here on the forums. I wish ZOS would do a better job of looking at the big picture of a few people's post histories here and having a frank conversation with those members to cut it out (or lose posting access). There are indeed people who will not post feedback out of fear of being trolled/baited/reported. It's affected my own posting here.

Yet when you introduce commentary, indicating an unhappiness with the fact that threads encouraging constructive topics… topics involving ESO, receive nothing from the same posters found in this thread, those comments that some might not wholesomely agree with get ratio’d due to an inability to “Disagree” with a radioactive post.

Fun fact: After I crashed out on Reactor, of which I’ve already apologized for, I went through and made it a POINT to engage with everyone who’s threads have been buried. That is what it means to be a community… to encourage discussion, and to grow and build.

Now imagine how it looks when you can’t reinforce a stance that a system has brought joy to a large number of us -adding representation- to a negative thread without people being offended and calling it a troll post because you don’t agree with them. (Not this thread)

If anyone has made this forum a battleground, it is those of us who show up and ceaselessly get offended… at nothing… and make it personal.

Kind of like what we’re seeing now where someone is continuing a finished argument that everyone has already moved on from, bringing up other threads that are in the spirit of community and trying to spin them in a negative light.

That is what needs to stop.

Pevey · December 26

The reality is that it makes zero difference if anyone convinces forum residents of anything. No one at ZOS hangs out here except the community managers. The community is something to be managed, not engaged with, apparently.

xR3ACTORx · December 26

Not believing in the accuracy of facts... Says it all.

loosej · December 26

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Someone has been paying attention. Most of the trolling is on behalf of ZOS and it's rare for any action to be taken in these cases. Maybe we should get an in game pet troll so we could have a troll following us around in game.

Having a different opinion and supporting ZoS is not trolling.

True! Responses to other peoples' opinions in a certain way and framing it just as "a different opinion" or "supporting ZOS"
can be! It's all about how things are said.

How many other ways can a different opinion be stated? Saying "I have had a different experience" is stating my personal experience and does not discount anyone else's. Saying "I don't find Steam charts to be accurate" is my opinion, and does not say anything against the posters that do find them accurate.

Saying "I have had a different experience" is a valid point, and can generate a healthy discussion.

Saying "I don't find steam charts to be accurate" is like saying you don't believe in gravity.

There's a big difference.

fizzybeef · December 27

loosej wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Someone has been paying attention. Most of the trolling is on behalf of ZOS and it's rare for any action to be taken in these cases. Maybe we should get an in game pet troll so we could have a troll following us around in game.

Having a different opinion and supporting ZoS is not trolling.

True! Responses to other peoples' opinions in a certain way and framing it just as "a different opinion" or "supporting ZOS"
can be! It's all about how things are said.

How many other ways can a different opinion be stated? Saying "I have had a different experience" is stating my personal experience and does not discount anyone else's. Saying "I don't find Steam charts to be accurate" is my opinion, and does not say anything against the posters that do find them accurate.

Saying "I have had a different experience" is a valid point, and can generate a healthy discussion.

Saying "I don't find steam charts to be accurate" is like saying you don't believe in gravity.

There's a big difference.

Its ignoring facts

SummersetCitizen · December 27

Radiate77 wrote: »

bringing up other threads …

Your complaint about your separate memorial thread not receiving views? That actually reinforces my point. Although the topic is game-related, this forum is not social media, and most users do not visit it to follow what their “friends” are posting. The majority of engagement about that actor’s death occurred on actual social media platforms, where people typically interact with that type of content.

When a post like this gains more visibility, it predictably attracts individuals who disagree but have no factual contribution to offer. This often leads to complaints and derailing, which correlates with the same users creating social-media-style posts that have little or no relevance to the game itself.

The player population is declining. All publicly available data supports this. Everyone is free to share their opinion, but opinions without supporting evidence are not inherently meaningful to others and can be acknowledged as such.

Radiate77 · December 27

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

bringing up other threads …

Your complaint about your separate memorial thread not receiving views?

If I recall correctly, that was not one of the several threads that I had bumped. Interesting.

You were passive aggressively referring to my thread wishing everyone the best for the holidays as a shameless social media post. Part of that post was for you, to take care of yourself. Mental healthy people are not bothered by others celebrating.

All that said, you’ve got a whole lotta bad faith going on, so I’m just gonna wish you the best and hope you cheer up for New Years. ✌️

SummersetCitizen · December 27

Radiate77 wrote: »

You were passive aggressively referring to my thread wishing everyone the best for the holidays as a shameless social media post.

This is not passive-aggressive. My point is simply that social posts better suited for Facebook or similar platforms belong there.

Users who treat a moderated video game forum as their personal social media are often the same individuals who derail threads by relying on emotional reasoning rather than facts.

The forum environment gives them an advantage: they can present incoherent or unsupported arguments without meaningful pushback. On mainstream social platforms, direct and unfiltered feedback would quickly expose the bad-faith nature of those arguments. Because most users cannot express their unfiltered views here, individuals seeking a “safe-space” social media experience tend to become disproportionate power users.

Ultimately, these users are not interested in genuine engagement or real-world responses. They participate in legitimate threads solely to provoke reactions while advancing arguments which carry no substantive weight.

Public facts indicate player population has been on a continual decline. Nothing above shows otherwise.

KrayedoN · December 27

I'm not going to take any sides here. I will simply say, if this is indeed a true reflection of the current player base, I am holding onto hope that ZOS don't pull a Nintendo and suddenly shut down all the servers. I love this game so much despite its faults. It's definitely my favorite one of all time. In any case, if ESO does end up shutting down someday, we can only hope for progress on a new TES series game. Right?

baltic1284 · December 27

KrayedoN wrote: »

I'm not going to take any sides here. I will simply say, if this is indeed a true reflection of the current player base, I am holding onto hope that ZOS don't pull a Nintendo and suddenly shut down all the servers. I love this game so much despite its faults. It's definitely my favorite one of all time. In any case, if ESO does end up shutting down someday, we can only hope for progress on a new TES series game. Right?

I have hope they will change for the better but at the same time the changes needed and many and vast, both small and large, and will require quite a bit of work and from the history of what I have seen company wise, many features were released in a poor state and poorly finished, or not finished and polished. But even with all that I do have hope and just waiting for the video to show what their plans are to right the ship and fix the various parts of the game.

Rungar · December 27

mmo's just arent a popular genre like they used to be. Gamelay has stagnated and theres little to no investment in new titles and there hasent been for a long while. Low competition is the only thing that kept eso alive all these years. Mmo's are getting cancelled left and right. There are just easier ways to make money in this space. I also think cash shops are drying up revenue wise across all games as players turn away from hyper monetization.

So eso's decline isnt just due to eso. There are alot more factors at play though lack of investment on microsofts part is surely a big driver.

The game had great potential, but 30 years.. lol.

dinokstrunz · December 27

I've not played ESO since late June and from what I can tell our community that used to be quite active in ESO PvP have ALL stopped playing. I literally don't know a single person personally who is still actively playing ESO, someone may log in every once in a while to check new sets, balance changes and maybe play the odd BG or two. Just mad how many players I know have all just stopped playing.

I hope ESO can reignite some hope in 2026, restore some class identity, PvP fun again etc. Subclassing was always going to lead to problems and from what I can tell isn't liked among PvPers. The game could do with a lot of animation overhauls too, tone down a lot of the over the top flashy animations from Arcanists for example (they don't feel very Elder Scrollsy at all). Make Classes & maybe races feel like a important choice again.

There was a time maybe 5-6 years ago where I thought ESO would be unstoppable but damn did it fall off hard thanks to consistent bad errors & choices from ZoS's part. Hopefully 2026 is a much more positive outcome.

xR3ACTORx · December 27

I tried to give several fair exits in this discussion before and I am glad to read about which direction this debate took.

baltic1284 · December 27

Rungar wrote: »

mmo's just arent a popular genre like they used to be. Gamelay has stagnated and theres little to no investment in new titles and there hasent been for a long while. Low competition is the only thing that kept eso alive all these years. Mmo's are getting cancelled left and right. There are just easier ways to make money in this space. I also think cash shops are drying up revenue wise across all games as players turn away from hyper monetization.

So eso's decline isnt just due to eso. There are alot more factors at play though lack of investment on microsofts part is surely a big driver.

The game had great potential, but 30 years.. lol.

There are aspects though that the company can control like price over monetization has always been an issue, graphical upgrades in general need to be done IE helmets on character some you can see the eyes and what behind the slit of that helmet but darn near all it is just a black spot.
Over monetization has to tackled and dealt with, most of this is due to gamble mechanics that many games have now that deliver very little of what the customers wants and is usually has stuff in it that can bought cheaper in game individually then what it costs gambling.
PvP also needs to be looked and separated from PVE balance wise and map wise, only way i can see this happening map wise is to split Cyrodill, due to how some PVPers bullied non PVPer player.
Another is dealing with the toxic aspect of the community and dealing with input either for or against a choice they made to do and when it doesn't work taking accountability of that instead of just saying what they usually do. This includes over moderation on certain subjects and little to none of others and over Moderation on certain members of the community and not on others.
All and all they have a lot of work to do in general to change things, and again going by past promises from the company either A they will say they are and deliver half of worked on idea and deliver that idea either in a poor state, incomplete and then never touch it again, or release it with poor performance and no fixed to bugs and errors found in testing. Which won't help the situation.
Some of the problems the company created themselves and some they have no control over, but over all they can adjust adapt and realize wait tis was working but isn't anymore we need to change. One is over monetizing the game that has gotten to the point where the gaming community is tired of it over all so stop spending money on the games, this is being felt by all Free to Play games in general and there is no one right answer.

robertlabrie · December 27

Billion replies I know, but I'll pile on.

This isn't unique to ESO. Some games have straight up died. RIP New World for example. Same with Concord. Even ZOS' own Destiny clone never made it out the door. The lazy days of peak COVID are way way way way past us. The game is old, we are old. It's 15 years since Skyrim dropped and other IP has the attention of the youth.

That said the quality of the new chapters has declined markedly the stories and characters are far less engaging. Fighting ancient dragons with an Imperial battle mage was cool, so was the Yokudan vampire. The talking tree and the randy mystery writer was ..... not so cool.

AScarlato · December 27

I honestly don't mind the occasional community thread, even a basic Holiday thread since ESO clearly copies Real Life holidays as in-game events. Sure, they could be tied a little more to ESO but at the end of the day there are "social" guilds in ESO where most of their time is mostly spent socializing / chatting, so there is an audience for stuff like this.

We know the forum moderators heavily moderate - so it is in their domain to decide what threads are permissible. If they feel something is too far removed from what is permissible I'm sure they'd just lock or delete it like they regularly do. Certainly wasn't going to spend my Christmas worried that there was a holiday or Haiku thread.

That being said, so long as someone doesn't pop into other threads to try to shame people who aren't interested in basic community threads, and they remain relatively rare and well-moderated, they are easy enough to just ignore if they don't interest you.