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Elephant in the Room - The End-Game PVP Culture is Declining. How Can ZOS Mitigate This?
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moo_2021✭✭✭✭✭What if they just disable healing others and group buffing in PVP? Might even improve performance
We are mostly self healers anyway, and not organized enough to have any specific role filled.1 -
RaidingTraiding✭✭✭What if they just disable healing others and group buffing in PVP? Might even improve performance
We are mostly self healers anyway, and not organized enough to have any specific role filled.
There's a lot more organization than you think in cyro. Team work, playing selflessly, and building a group with specific roles and comps shouldn't be punished in an mmo.
That being said, the defensive power in a group setting is absurdly overtuned currently and has been getting increasingly worse for a few years now. Definitely needs to be balanced. group play should be rewarding but not to the point its at now. A few years ago a ball group could full wipe another ball group and even as a small group you could do that. ive seen videos of gvgs now that last for half an hour and first half neither side gets a kill. they usually can only get 1 kill at a time, most ive seen was 3, and at that point they just immediately rez ulted. so if a fully comped min maxed 12 man can only kill 1 or none on average with a full ult dump then there's a problem for sure.
As far as performance goes, players shouldn't be punished for servers being not up to par.Edited by RaidingTraiding on December 17, 2025 4:51PM1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RaidingTraiding wrote: »What if they just disable healing others and group buffing in PVP? Might even improve performance
We are mostly self healers anyway, and not organized enough to have any specific role filled.
There's a lot more organization than you think in cyro. Team work, playing selflessly, and building a group with specific roles and comps shouldn't be punished in an mmo.
That being said, the defensive power in a group setting is absurdly overtuned currently and has been getting increasingly worse for a few years now. Definitely needs to be balanced. group play should be rewarding but not to the point its at now. A few years ago a ball group could full wipe another ball group and even as a small group you could do that. ive seen videos of gvgs now that last for half an hour and first half neither side gets a kill. they usually can only get 1 kill at a time, most ive seen was 3, and at that point they just immediately rez ulted. so if a fully comped min maxed 12 man can only kill 1 or none on average with a full ult dump then there's a problem for sure.
As far as performance goes, players shouldn't be punished for servers being not up to par.
The addition of Scribing shields and long-duration buff access are what really poured Nitrous on survivability.
IMO, it was a HUGE mistake to allow the Scribing shields to scale off of Max HP. And I say that as a long-time user of those same shields. The shields stacking is fine and disallowing that would break fundamental game rules but players should at least players have to make actual trade-offs if they want those shields to be worth anything.0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »For instance running netch with crit surge
Why would you build like that? Don't do that. You're cutting your skills in half.For example Runeguard of Freedom on Arcanist and Resolving Vigor
netch and critsurge are mainly chosen for their ability not the overlapping major buff.
For stamsorc setups in subclassing you drop dark magic dark deal and replace it with animal. So netch fills the roll of your dark deal, without risking being bashed and while giving %regen from animal passives. Skills are far too bloated now to care about an overlapping major buff.
Personally I don't run netch anymore because i dont run any sustain other than imperial and bear haunch. Even in nocp conditions you dont need any these days its still easy enough to swap between tripots and effect pots.Zos should hire pvp consultants1 -
Theignson✭✭✭✭✭
✭Run speed is 100%, sprint is 140%. The speed cap is 200%.
It is almost impossible to get to the speed cap without sprinting: Major= 30%, minor 15%, 3 swift 21%, celerity 10%. Without spring you are at 176%, not capped even with those build concessions (sacrificing 3 enchants and one red CP) But these players are at 200%.
Ring of the Wild Hunt
(1 item) Increases your movement speed by 15% while in combat. Increases your movement speed by 45% while out of combat.
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Hunter's Eye (Wood Elf)
Increases your Movement Speed by 5% and ...
Done. 196% in combat, full 200% out of combat without sprinting.
Marauder's Haste
(5 items) When you apply a damage shield to yourself or an ally, increase your Movement Speed by 20% for 9 seconds.
It is Wild Hunt + Wood Elf combined and very easy to uptime.
Wilderqueen's Arch
(5 items) Your Bow attacks reduce the Movement Speed of any enemy they hit by 15% and increase your Movement Speed by 15% for 3 seconds.
Easy to uptime for bow players.
So, it is very easy to create troll speed build, choose any combination you like, but they are not damage efficient, so they are just for fun.
Problem with Wild hunt is it drops to 15% in combat and also you can't sprint. So then you need Major/minor/3 swift/celerity to get to 191-- therefore you are wasting a mythic, 3 enchants and a CP . I used to use wild hunt on my nB but eventually realized you lost way too much.
In contrast the people I am talking about are running max speed, have huge resists, do huge damage-- they have it all-- and you can be sure they are not equipping Marauder's haste or Wildequeens in Cyrodil to get these builds!4 GOs, and bunches of prefects etc-- all classes...I've wasted a lot of time in PVP over the last 8 years1 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Run speed is 100%, sprint is 140%. The speed cap is 200%.
It is almost impossible to get to the speed cap without sprinting: Major= 30%, minor 15%, 3 swift 21%, celerity 10%. Without spring you are at 176%, not capped even with those build concessions (sacrificing 3 enchants and one red CP) But these players are at 200%.
Ring of the Wild Hunt
(1 item) Increases your movement speed by 15% while in combat. Increases your movement speed by 45% while out of combat.
+
Hunter's Eye (Wood Elf)
Increases your Movement Speed by 5% and ...
Done. 196% in combat, full 200% out of combat without sprinting.
Marauder's Haste
(5 items) When you apply a damage shield to yourself or an ally, increase your Movement Speed by 20% for 9 seconds.
It is Wild Hunt + Wood Elf combined and very easy to uptime.
Wilderqueen's Arch
(5 items) Your Bow attacks reduce the Movement Speed of any enemy they hit by 15% and increase your Movement Speed by 15% for 3 seconds.
Easy to uptime for bow players.
So, it is very easy to create troll speed build, choose any combination you like, but they are not damage efficient, so they are just for fun.
Problem with Wild hunt is it drops to 15% in combat and also you can't sprint. So then you need Major/minor/3 swift/celerity to get to 191-- therefore you are wasting a mythic, 3 enchants and a CP . I used to use wild hunt on my nB but eventually realized you lost way too much.
In contrast the people I am talking about are running max speed, have huge resists, do huge damage-- they have it all-- and you can be sure they are not equipping Marauder's haste or Wildequeens in Cyrodil to get these builds!
Wild Hunt does not prevent the ability to sprint. Only Snow Treaders has that downside.1 -
merevie✭✭✭✭✭'Population Decline Is Real' -well, everyone is still gaming...
Just only not on ESO. 10+ yr together friend groups migrate around other games together.
Everyone else is reachable viable Discord or old school streamer chats.
If ESO continues to tank the remaining people will just migrate too.
Edited by merevie on December 19, 2025 6:26AM1 -
imPDA✭✭✭In contrast the people I am talking about are running max speed, have huge resists, do huge damage-- they have it all-- and you can be sure they are not equipping Marauder's haste or Wildequeens in Cyrodil to get these builds!
I saw so many messages like this and answer always is - learn to play. Your skill is not enough to outplay them, either they are very good. Like, I can run very fast with warden orc buffed with bird of prey in medium armor, I can catch sorc streaking away 3 times in a row, am I in this category of "running max speed, huge resist, etc"? You can cast the skill and press shift, then release shift and cast the skill again, press shift again as fast as possible, so you will be almost always running at 200%, it is base and obvious, but I saw so many people walking toward me and just doing LA + skills instead of sprinting and doing skills, so I decided to write about it too.1 -
Theignson✭✭✭✭✭
✭In contrast the people I am talking about are running max speed, have huge resists, do huge damage-- they have it all-- and you can be sure they are not equipping Marauder's haste or Wildequeens in Cyrodil to get these builds!
I saw so many messages like this and answer always is - learn to play. Your skill is not enough to outplay them, either they are very good. Like, I can run very fast with warden orc buffed with bird of prey in medium armor, I can catch sorc streaking away 3 times in a row, am I in this category of "running max speed, huge resist, etc"? You can cast the skill and press shift, then release shift and cast the skill again, press shift again as fast as possible, so you will be almost always running at 200%, it is base and obvious, but I saw so many people walking toward me and just doing LA + skills instead of sprinting and doing skills, so I decided to write about it too.
My point is more about how unbalanced the game has become-- you can "have it all" = max speed, max tank, max damage. This essentially ruins the game by taking away the risk vs reward component. Many players especially in groups are running in nearly god mode
ps. yes, I realize you can sprint and let up to cast . Do you realize there are speed hacks now, eg auto sprint (in zen cronus) (which I have never used , and cant use since I am on PC)? I am not sure whether speed hacks allow you to cast when they are used. Only a cheater could answer this, lol4 GOs, and bunches of prefects etc-- all classes...I've wasted a lot of time in PVP over the last 8 years0 -
LPapirius✭✭✭✭✭
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Only in your and ZOS' fantasies.
The side by side showed that people won't play vengeance. They didn't play much at all when vengeance was the only option and they quit entirely once GH came back.
Mandated vengeance will end PvP in ESO, and more than likely, the entire game will shut down within a year of mandating vengeance.
Yes, it's that bad.0 -
imPDA✭✭✭My point is more about how unbalanced the game has become-- you can "have it all" = max speed, max tank, max damage. This essentially ruins the game by taking away the risk vs reward component. Many players especially in groups are running in nearly god mode
It is not disbalance, it is more like homogenization, even less skilled players now have easy access to all buffs, everyone how has base stats and it increased overall tankiness when it was introduced. It is now harder to be truly good player, because almost everyone is tough enough even without much effort. It is slightly different interpretation, but I agree with the point in general.0
