Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I do want to add though, the current WardenBladeX build (where X is just insert 3rd skill line of choice) that plagues PvP needs addressing. Solving Charm will fix most of the warden aspect of this build, but the elephant in the room with this build is the Assassination skill line. This skill line needs massive nerfs to it's insane crit chance bonuses (that makes it a mandatory skill line for DPS in both PvE and PvP) and the removal of firing multiple bow procs back to back that are basically ultimate level abilities, but without the long build up time (30s+) that ultimates are supposed to have.

Honestly, while the Assassination skill line shows up in almost every build and can feel repetitive or annoying, I actually like the amount of damage it brings. For the first time in years, I’m seeing some of the BG veterans — the ones who used to tank five people and still counterkill — actually having a hard time surviving against 2–3 opponents. That’s a healthy shift, in my opinion.

As long as healing stays as overtuned as it currently is, I really don’t think the Assassination line needs damage nerfs. If anything, I’d rather see more skill lines brought up to its level, instead of dragging this one down.

And also, @Turtle_Bot, I’m assuming you’re an experienced player — you’ve definitely noticed that, against mid- to high-skill players, maybe 1 out of 4 bow procs actually lands for meaningful damage. Most people just dodge or block them. Looking at bow procs against below-average players doesn’t make sense either, because those players die with or without them. So to me, the whole “bow proc problem” is pretty overblown.

i11ionward wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I do want to add though, the current WardenBladeX build (where X is just insert 3rd skill line of choice) that plagues PvP needs addressing. Solving Charm will fix most of the warden aspect of this build, but the elephant in the room with this build is the Assassination skill line. This skill line needs massive nerfs to it's insane crit chance bonuses (that makes it a mandatory skill line for DPS in both PvE and PvP) and the removal of firing multiple bow procs back to back that are basically ultimate level abilities, but without the long build up time (30s+) that ultimates are supposed to have.

Honestly, while the Assassination skill line shows up in almost every build and can feel repetitive or annoying, I actually like the amount of damage it brings. For the first time in years, I’m seeing some of the BG veterans — the ones who used to tank five people and still counterkill — actually having a hard time surviving against 2–3 opponents. That’s a healthy shift, in my opinion.

As long as healing stays as overtuned as it currently is, I really don’t think the Assassination line needs damage nerfs. If anything, I’d rather see more skill lines brought up to its level, instead of dragging this one down.

And also, @Turtle_Bot, I’m assuming you’re an experienced player — you’ve definitely noticed that, against mid- to high-skill players, maybe 1 out of 4 bow procs actually lands for meaningful damage. Most people just dodge or block them. Looking at bow procs against below-average players doesn’t make sense either, because those players die with or without them. So to me, the whole “bow proc problem” is pretty overblown.

@i11ionward One of the issues I have with the Assassination line as a whole, is that it's stale, but that's not the only issue I have with the line.

Being Stale:
Other issues with Assassination:
As for Spec bow in particular:
While I appreciate the higher damage of recent patches, there are some abilities and skill lines that take even this aspect too far or do so in ways that also unintentionally buff healing on top of this. This is why I have issues with Assassination line as a whole and Spec Bow in particular and it is why we are seeing this line on nearly every single build across both PvE and PvP. Other lines need bringing up, sure, but not to the level of Assassination/Spec Bow.

Imo, Aedric Spear is about the level that I would like to see DPS lines be brought up to and Assassination nerfed down to, where they provide strong DPS options, and some unique defensive options for the characters using those lines for different playstyles, but nothing that is so universally strong/universally buffs aspects across multiple roles in the game as crit chance.

We also need to remember that Spec Bow was originally balanced around never having access to other delayed burst to stack with it, but sub-classing has completely eliminated this designed balance factor to Spec Bow, while ZOS failed to rework Spec bow to account for losing this balance aspect when they introduced sub-classing.

There's a lot ZOS can do to balance Spec bow and Assassination while keeping damage high.

AD_ThisIsTheWay wrote: »

Very interesting comments in this thread guys. I'm glad to see everyone sharing their opinions and input.

I must say though, my intention for this thread wasn't to get bogged down fully into the mechanics of the meta, or discuss certain types of gear or abilities that are problematic. I hear you that lots of things need to be addressed in terms of evening out the combat, especially after subclassing has been introduced.

My intention for this thread was to discuss the bigger picture. Where is PVP going? How can we keep it interesting? How can we evolve the PVP systems and game modes entirely to keep up in the current climate of videogaming? Because currently, with what is happening now, it has gotten very stale. It needs to be refreshed. It needs to be shiny and attractive for the new players and veterans alike. I fear that if significant changes don't happen, the population will continue to decline.

So please, lets open this thread up to discuss more BIG PICTURE ideas. Does anyone like my idea of the coliseum mode? See my prior thoughts:

So in conclusion, here are the things that I would absolutely love to see for Bgs.

- New maps, a lot more please.
- An overhaul of the PVP ranking system in bgs
- A new ranked mode for bgs that implements a tier system
- New rewards that can be earned by winning and leveling your rank in bgs
- Lastly, a brand new game mode for the hardcore end-game pvpers who want to become legends (we could call it the coliseum or something)! A league that requires you to officially register a team and advance up the bracket. There could be seasons for the league that reset after a set period of time.

The problem I see, and probably many others as well, is that none of those things mean anything if the core gameplay isn't rewarding in and of itself. I haven't played in a month or so but I doubt it's any different and likely worse. There's a great game deep down there that has been able to flourish despite the mismanagement. But it's gotten to the point that it's no longer accessible for most - even the ones that do it on the regular. And even if it is, how many are really having that much fun? From what I read above even the winners aren't in some cases. Add to that all of the technical issues, exploits, and general disagreement of the community itself on what they'd like to see the game be and it's no wonder PvP has come to this. The population isn't in decline. It's gone. One camp that barely hits the limit during primetime at the lowest population in the history of the game is the very definition of a dead game (or game mode in this case, at least).

AD_ThisIsTheWay wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

The problem I see, and probably many others as well, is that none of those things mean anything if the core gameplay isn't rewarding in and of itself. I haven't played in a month or so but I doubt it's any different and likely worse. There's a great game deep down there that has been able to flourish despite the mismanagement. But it's gotten to the point that it's no longer accessible for most - even the ones that do it on the regular. And even if it is, how many are really having that much fun? From what I read above even the winners aren't in some cases. Add to that all of the technical issues, exploits, and general disagreement of the community itself on what they'd like to see the game be and it's no wonder PvP has come to this. The population isn't in decline. It's gone. One camp that barely hits the limit during primetime at the lowest population in the history of the game is the very definition of a dead game (or game mode in this case, at least).

Yeah I hear you on a lot of what you just said. And I do agree that PVP is pretty much DEAD in cyro since I see zero bars all the time.

But that being said, speaking on behalf of the BG community on PSNA, there are still A LOT of active players in the BG community. I am still an active player, and at the moment my wait time in between queues is often less than 2 minutes.

At least, for what I see on PS5, the BG community still appears to be going strong. A lot stronger than in CYRO or IC.

Finally, for the record... I just want to say... I AM STILL HAVING FUN. For me, the fun isn't buried "deep down there", or "inaccessible". I am still very much having a great time in BGs. Especially every time I execute a nightblade . Currently I'm working on a new dragon knight build.

For me, there is still a plethora of fun to be had in the small scale combat, especially when you are working with a team and getting super competitive. I just wish ZOS would incentivize more people to enter BGs and add more refreshing content. That's all.

I'm glad you are having fun! Sometimes I log in and have it too and that's really the reason I bother posting or logging in at all anymore.

Those times are hard to find now for me. And I've given up on trying to bring others into this game mode because, as I said, it's mostly inaccessible anymore. A casual night with a new person in Cyrodiil feels like taking someone into the sweatiest Unreal Tournament competitive lobby in the world. I'll be the first to say that I like high skill ceilings and I don't want a dumbed down game but we all know that it's just gotten totally out of hand, especially with how well group works now. There's a lot I didn't like about vengeance but at least I knew I could walk out there with zero prep and have a fighting chance against anyone. But it seemed doomed from the very start. There wasn't enough velocity and it seems the general community rejected it so they've likely just halted it at this point. Fair enough but I'd say we've pretty much killed our own last chance at ever seeing a real concerted effort by ZoS.

Well, it looks like they have made a start on what I said needed to happen regarding Vengeance:

• Lastly for Vengeance, a few things here.
  • ZOS needs to confirm (and stick to this) that vengeance is just tests and won't be "the final product" or at most will be an option for cyrodiil (ideally a "learner" cyrodiil for new players to learn PvP basics).
  • ZOS needs to speed up these tests so they don't drag on too long.
  • ZOS needs to do balancing for live Cyrodiil in the meantime so PvP doesn't die completely while waiting for the results of these tests to produce outcomes.

Forum Link below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685603/community-update-vengeance-testing-cyrodiil/p1

They have confirmed that Vengeance is (as per their stated goals) now going to be (ideally) an option at most, to be ran alongside Greyhost (and apparently a new "mini-cyrodiil" mode that is like a mix of BGs and Cyrodiil but with full greyhost ruleset). They definitely need to stick with this though and ideally not let greyhost (or vengeance) just rot balance wise.

They also acknowledged the tests dragging on too long and have stated their plans regarding future tests for next year (including healing vs damage tests). They have also shared a few results of the previous tests and the actual population caps in Cyrodiil (360 total/120 per faction for live, 900 total/300 per faction for vengeance) with us too which was really nice to see.

The last thing that remains unaddressed is my third point: Balancing Live alongside the tests/vengeance so that the tests aren't in vain.
This is still up in the air since it seems most of the combat balance team is tied up with vengeance currently (and less people available due to microsofts recent layoffs).

Also note that the above linked forum thread is stated (by ZOS themselves) to be in addition to the 3rd PvP FAQ update, not a replacement for it. So that FAQ should still be coming soon (tm).

Honestly (cynicism/skepticism aside), as much as ZOS has messed up over the years, these early signs/communications under the new leadership (open and honest communication about the writhing wall event mess up, and now this for vengeance including sharing some of the results/data graphs) have been a really nice step in the right direction so kudos to ZOS where it is due. Hopefully it continues and is built upon, even though it will take a lot of time and rolling with the punches to push through the cynicism/skepticism of the player base that has built up through the years as a result of the many decisions made in the past.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

A bonus of replacing the below 50 campaign is that it would remove a lot of the "players" who have maxed out level 45-49 gear and just constantly reroll characters to farm actual new players who step into that campaign who likely would only have mixed overland sets at best.

Actually the strongest lowbie characters are lvl 32-36 when scaling is the strongest at the same time skills just leveled. You actually get significantly weaker after lvl40. Even being in lowbie when you hit CP and can swap over to full golded monster CP gear you are going to be weaker than anyone who knows how to play a setup lvl32-36 build.

All the lowbie guilds moved to nocp a couple years ago leaving bwb/kyne as a wasteland for a handful of new players to be bored in. Recently in the past year or two all the nocp and formerly lowbie guilds all made the move to greyhost since it is the last place with consistent population. Both learning campaigns are now barren and without steady population all day are susceptible to map flipping causing factions to stay logged out multiple days in a row. Cyrodil was never designed to be under 300players per faction at all times. They never built in failsafes to protect the integrity of the campaign when a massive population imbalance occurs. Which only leads to dying servers dying exponentially when it starts to happen. Given the learning environments were ignored for 7+ years, its no surprise the population is going down.

Quite literally like watching a sinking fleet of ships and greyhost is the last ship. This supposed mid-sized campaign is just going to be a life raft which wont support the ballgroup popularity contest that is going to plague it.

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Maybe it's just my experience and my groups experience, but for some odd reason we are finding that 9/10 times, serious game breaking lag (to the point of rubber banding and skills not working) only seems to happen when certain DC ballgroups show up, or certain small scale DC tower humpers appear. It can be seen at keep fights easily. AD could be faction fighting EP at Lessy no problem, skills work fine both sides are doing well then all of a sudden the fps drops to 15 and lookie here, here comes the DC ball.
Raid lead actually caught on and now we actively watch for it. It's a tell tale sign they are arriving, or in the keep we are looking to defend. Daily. Nightly.

Its just ticks per second, ball groups create the most ticks and are actually incentivized to do so. Do we really think its smart to have all these group sets that demand you spam aoe over time effects as much as possible? Really think about the proc conditions for sets like rallying cry or transmutation.

a single target heal ticks once
an aoe heal could tick once per player = 12 ticks
an aoe over time heal could tick once per player per tick so imagine 10 ticks and we are at 120 ticks

Slap on just 10 procs that could trigger off of said event each skill cast (enchants, CC, set bonuses, etc)
1 tick becomes 10
12 ticks become 120
120 ticks become 1200

---

Its not rocket science. If you keep making game design choices that favor the worst contributors to lag, you will get lag. Why does the game lag less during MyM.....the servers are full of noobs that only do a few ticks per cast instead of the servers being full of veteran pvp ball groups doing 1200 ticks per second.

Theignson wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately there are various speed hack tools out there and it's very hard to prove if people use it.

Also you can simply sprint let go of sprint for a split second, cast and re-sprint.

Players will also do this around the resource tick timer so sprinting doesnt impact their resource gain. ZOS could fix this by ensuring that if a player was sprinting at any time between the last tick being calculated and the new tick calculation the resources are adjusted but that requires a code change. (same with blocking).

How do they know when the resource tick timer is up, is that an addon?

I have heard about speed hacks. I have also heard that controller users have an input device that can automate things like heals, breakfree and light attack /skill/bash weaving. Although this device has been named on this board, I will not name it because I suspect that is frowned upon. But if you see people who are constantly running top speed, immediately break all CC, perfectly heal, and on recap perfectly execute their weaving, that may be why.

(a perfect weave is when light attack, skill and bash all land within .1 seconds. In combat with the chaos and movement and defense this is hard to achieve every time for human players. In other words the standard deviation of the time between light attack and skill firing is much higher than if a controller device with a macro does it. People who say this is no advantage in Pvp, due to lag, are not correct. The lag affects the human and the macro equally, but the macro will still do more damage per unit time due to perfect weaving)

The server only checks your state at fixed intervals so if you have decent ping and enough APM you can micro-Sprint during the un-checked periods and then ease-up and get a cast in before it tolls again.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Well, it looks like they have made a start on what I said needed to happen regarding Vengeance:

• Lastly for Vengeance, a few things here.
  • ZOS needs to confirm (and stick to this) that vengeance is just tests and won't be "the final product" or at most will be an option for cyrodiil (ideally a "learner" cyrodiil for new players to learn PvP basics).
  • ZOS needs to speed up these tests so they don't drag on too long.
  • ZOS needs to do balancing for live Cyrodiil in the meantime so PvP doesn't die completely while waiting for the results of these tests to produce outcomes.

Forum Link below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685603/community-update-vengeance-testing-cyrodiil/p1

They have confirmed that Vengeance is (as per their stated goals) now going to be (ideally) an option at most, to be ran alongside Greyhost (and apparently a new "mini-cyrodiil" mode that is like a mix of BGs and Cyrodiil but with full greyhost ruleset). They definitely need to stick with this though and ideally not let greyhost (or vengeance) just rot balance wise.

They also acknowledged the tests dragging on too long and have stated their plans regarding future tests for next year (including healing vs damage tests). They have also shared a few results of the previous tests and the actual population caps in Cyrodiil (360 total/120 per faction for live, 900 total/300 per faction for vengeance) with us too which was really nice to see.

The last thing that remains unaddressed is my third point: Balancing Live alongside the tests/vengeance so that the tests aren't in vain.
This is still up in the air since it seems most of the combat balance team is tied up with vengeance currently (and less people available due to microsofts recent layoffs).

Also note that the above linked forum thread is stated (by ZOS themselves) to be in addition to the 3rd PvP FAQ update, not a replacement for it. So that FAQ should still be coming soon (tm).

Honestly (cynicism/skepticism aside), as much as ZOS has messed up over the years, these early signs/communications under the new leadership (open and honest communication about the writhing wall event mess up, and now this for vengeance including sharing some of the results/data graphs) have been a really nice step in the right direction so kudos to ZOS where it is due. Hopefully it continues and is built upon, even though it will take a lot of time and rolling with the punches to push through the cynicism/skepticism of the player base that has built up through the years as a result of the many decisions made in the past.

Assuming that they don't actually do Option 2 (e.g. nuke Grey Host) then I would agree with you that there is reason for optimism.

Certainly, we have seen more transparency in the short time that the new leadership has been in place than we had received for the last many years prior to their arrival.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Maybe it's just my experience and my groups experience, but for some odd reason we are finding that 9/10 times, serious game breaking lag (to the point of rubber banding and skills not working) only seems to happen when certain DC ballgroups show up, or certain small scale DC tower humpers appear. It can be seen at keep fights easily. AD could be faction fighting EP at Lessy no problem, skills work fine both sides are doing well then all of a sudden the fps drops to 15 and lookie here, here comes the DC ball.
Raid lead actually caught on and now we actively watch for it. It's a tell tale sign they are arriving, or in the keep we are looking to defend. Daily. Nightly.

Its just ticks per second, ball groups create the most ticks and are actually incentivized to do so. Do we really think its smart to have all these group sets that demand you spam aoe over time effects as much as possible? Really think about the proc conditions for sets like rallying cry or transmutation.

a single target heal ticks once
an aoe heal could tick once per player = 12 ticks
an aoe over time heal could tick once per player per tick so imagine 10 ticks and we are at 120 ticks

Slap on just 10 procs that could trigger off of said event each skill cast (enchants, CC, set bonuses, etc)
1 tick becomes 10
12 ticks become 120
120 ticks become 1200

---

Its not rocket science. If you keep making game design choices that favor the worst contributors to lag, you will get lag. Why does the game lag less during MyM.....the servers are full of noobs that only do a few ticks per cast instead of the servers being full of veteran pvp ball groups doing 1200 ticks per second.

Also add-ons!

Ballgroups are typically powerusers of add-ons, with entire custom suites that are not found on ESOUI (and that also frequently shirk abiding by ESOUI best programming practices), and use them to track even the most obvious L2P stats and buffs and all of that information has to be queried from the server and then laundered back and forth via the server to share between the various players.

I've said it before and I'll say it again that the average Cyrodiil player would be both shocked and scandalized at the degree of crutch that add-ons provide, enabling utility that strays FAR into what most would consider to be the territory of actual cheats.

Anyone who values competitive PvP should be squarely on the train to ban add-ons entirely from PvP environments.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately there are various speed hack tools out there and it's very hard to prove if people use it.

Also you can simply sprint let go of sprint for a split second, cast and re-sprint.

Players will also do this around the resource tick timer so sprinting doesnt impact their resource gain. ZOS could fix this by ensuring that if a player was sprinting at any time between the last tick being calculated and the new tick calculation the resources are adjusted but that requires a code change. (same with blocking).

How do they know when the resource tick timer is up, is that an addon?

I have heard about speed hacks. I have also heard that controller users have an input device that can automate things like heals, breakfree and light attack /skill/bash weaving. Although this device has been named on this board, I will not name it because I suspect that is frowned upon. But if you see people who are constantly running top speed, immediately break all CC, perfectly heal, and on recap perfectly execute their weaving, that may be why.

(a perfect weave is when light attack, skill and bash all land within .1 seconds. In combat with the chaos and movement and defense this is hard to achieve every time for human players. In other words the standard deviation of the time between light attack and skill firing is much higher than if a controller device with a macro does it. People who say this is no advantage in Pvp, due to lag, are not correct. The lag affects the human and the macro equally, but the macro will still do more damage per unit time due to perfect weaving)

The server only checks your state at fixed intervals so if you have decent ping and enough APM you can micro-Sprint during the un-checked periods and then ease-up and get a cast in before it tolls again.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Well, it looks like they have made a start on what I said needed to happen regarding Vengeance:

• Lastly for Vengeance, a few things here.
  • ZOS needs to confirm (and stick to this) that vengeance is just tests and won't be "the final product" or at most will be an option for cyrodiil (ideally a "learner" cyrodiil for new players to learn PvP basics).
  • ZOS needs to speed up these tests so they don't drag on too long.
  • ZOS needs to do balancing for live Cyrodiil in the meantime so PvP doesn't die completely while waiting for the results of these tests to produce outcomes.

Forum Link below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685603/community-update-vengeance-testing-cyrodiil/p1

They have confirmed that Vengeance is (as per their stated goals) now going to be (ideally) an option at most, to be ran alongside Greyhost (and apparently a new "mini-cyrodiil" mode that is like a mix of BGs and Cyrodiil but with full greyhost ruleset). They definitely need to stick with this though and ideally not let greyhost (or vengeance) just rot balance wise.

They also acknowledged the tests dragging on too long and have stated their plans regarding future tests for next year (including healing vs damage tests). They have also shared a few results of the previous tests and the actual population caps in Cyrodiil (360 total/120 per faction for live, 900 total/300 per faction for vengeance) with us too which was really nice to see.

The last thing that remains unaddressed is my third point: Balancing Live alongside the tests/vengeance so that the tests aren't in vain.
This is still up in the air since it seems most of the combat balance team is tied up with vengeance currently (and less people available due to microsofts recent layoffs).

Also note that the above linked forum thread is stated (by ZOS themselves) to be in addition to the 3rd PvP FAQ update, not a replacement for it. So that FAQ should still be coming soon (tm).

Honestly (cynicism/skepticism aside), as much as ZOS has messed up over the years, these early signs/communications under the new leadership (open and honest communication about the writhing wall event mess up, and now this for vengeance including sharing some of the results/data graphs) have been a really nice step in the right direction so kudos to ZOS where it is due. Hopefully it continues and is built upon, even though it will take a lot of time and rolling with the punches to push through the cynicism/skepticism of the player base that has built up through the years as a result of the many decisions made in the past.

Assuming that they don't actually do Option 2 (e.g. nuke Grey Host) then I would agree with you that there is reason for optimism.

Certainly, we have seen more transparency in the short time that the new leadership has been in place than we had received for the last many years prior to their arrival.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Maybe it's just my experience and my groups experience, but for some odd reason we are finding that 9/10 times, serious game breaking lag (to the point of rubber banding and skills not working) only seems to happen when certain DC ballgroups show up, or certain small scale DC tower humpers appear. It can be seen at keep fights easily. AD could be faction fighting EP at Lessy no problem, skills work fine both sides are doing well then all of a sudden the fps drops to 15 and lookie here, here comes the DC ball.
Raid lead actually caught on and now we actively watch for it. It's a tell tale sign they are arriving, or in the keep we are looking to defend. Daily. Nightly.

Its just ticks per second, ball groups create the most ticks and are actually incentivized to do so. Do we really think its smart to have all these group sets that demand you spam aoe over time effects as much as possible? Really think about the proc conditions for sets like rallying cry or transmutation.

a single target heal ticks once
an aoe heal could tick once per player = 12 ticks
an aoe over time heal could tick once per player per tick so imagine 10 ticks and we are at 120 ticks

Slap on just 10 procs that could trigger off of said event each skill cast (enchants, CC, set bonuses, etc)
1 tick becomes 10
12 ticks become 120
120 ticks become 1200

---

Its not rocket science. If you keep making game design choices that favor the worst contributors to lag, you will get lag. Why does the game lag less during MyM.....the servers are full of noobs that only do a few ticks per cast instead of the servers being full of veteran pvp ball groups doing 1200 ticks per second.

Also add-ons!

Ballgroups are typically powerusers of add-ons, with entire custom suites that are not found on ESOUI (and that also frequently shirk abiding by ESOUI best programming practices), and use them to track even the most obvious L2P stats and buffs and all of that information has to be queried from the server and then laundered back and forth via the server to share between the various players.

I've said it before and I'll say it again that the average Cyrodiil player would be both shocked and scandalized at the degree of crutch that add-ons provide, enabling utility that strays FAR into what most would consider to be the territory of actual cheats.

Anyone who values competitive PvP should be squarely on the train to ban add-ons entirely from PvP environments.

oh yeah dont get me started on all the exploitive addons over the years. All in the name of needing custom ui. Think, you shouldn't need any addons if the actual UI wasnt terrible. Every addon solves a basic problem with the game. For instance it took them half a decade to add the hotbar timers to the base game.
- Guild store unit cost addons
- buff/proc timers because combat is too unclear with random overdone particle animations
- skyshard addons
- wayshrine porting addons
- auto rapid maneuvers

I still remember like 7 or 8 years ago when people were running the custom addon that let you know when keep walls changed after being hit by seige. Or the whole miats invis attack warning fiasco.

One of the big reasons I didnt get into PvE was that most groups HEAVILY rely on addons that play the game for them. At a certain point zos could just not bothering to have visual or audio ques since addons will pop up with a text anyways with what button to press.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

it took them half a decade to add the hotbar timers to the base game

And addon timers still slightly better, I prefer them over standard as they lack features I used to.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

]

Lol true. Like how if you have the same buff on two different skills the timers can cancel each other.

Yea. For example Runeguard of Freedom on Arcanist and Resolving Vigors.

ZOS - I am so incredibly happy with your transparency, and your new plans to rework the combat system. Pure class benefits will add so much balance to the game! I can't wait to hear more about those and to start seeing those implementations.

The ONE thing that I still am not hearing anything about, that I'm still anxious to hear from you - when will there be a new commitment to the bg system? When will we start to see new and fresh content there? New maps, new game modes? etc.

Please consider the World of war craft arena system. I heard you say on another thread that you have been considering it for years. please do it! It will give the end gamers a new place to go other than cyrodill. I'm telling you, this would attract so many PVPers back to the game, and the wait times for queues would 100% not be an issue. Especially if everyone is trying to grind for a seasonal reward for advancing up the bracket. Again, think about a battle pass structure or something along the lines of that. Something that rewards you for leveling up!

In conclusion:

1 - I am super super happy to hear about your long term vision for the upcoming skill line reworks.

2 - But, when can I expect to see more energy put into the small scale PVP system? Even some short term updates would help for now. A few new maps. Perhaps bring back the 3v3v3 and the 4v4v4 on top of the 4v4 and 8v8 options. Id be fine waiting one more minute in the queue if I have the option of picking between those. At the moment, BGs just feel EXTREMELY REPETITIVE. What can be done to keep it all more FRESH!

Thanks for all of your hard work. I admit, I am extremely excited now for the future of the game under your new leadership.

The_Meathead wrote: »

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Maybe it's just my experience and my groups experience, but for some odd reason we are finding that 9/10 times, serious game breaking lag (to the point of rubber banding and skills not working) only seems to happen when certain DC ballgroups show up, or certain small scale DC tower humpers appear. It can be seen at keep fights easily. AD could be faction fighting EP at Lessy no problem, skills work fine both sides are doing well then all of a sudden the fps drops to 15 and lookie here, here comes the DC ball.
Raid lead actually caught on and now we actively watch for it. It's a tell tale sign they are arriving, or in the keep we are looking to defend. Daily. Nightly.

This has been my experience as well, bouncing around the various Factions the past year+. (Unrelated and for what it's worth, met a lot of nice people and while every faction has some mouthy jerks, they also all have some really fun and pleasant folks too.)

That bit about the DC small group is what makes me wonder at times about AddOns, but that's a whole other can of worms, I suppose. The stuff about the full DC ball groups being noticeable as they arrive is VERY true and I can even identify a specific one by the way things occur, before I see them on screen.

Here's the thing: otherwise, I almost (and I'm saying 99% of the time) experience ZERO lag in Cyrodiil, no matter how large a zerg on zerg is or what else is happening.

I get tired of being told not to believe my own eyes on this subject, and Jessica's recent post (Page 12 of the very recent Cyrodiil: Vengeance thread) is the first time I personally remember (please correct me if I'm wrong!) ZOS staff actively speaking about the impact Ball Groups DO have on performance, and what could be done about it with Battle Spirit. She even talks a bit about how much it would impact PvE to try to alter things with another method, which explains but doesn't validate why it has taken so long for the subject to even be brought up.

I really hope we get a bunch more on this sooner than later.

Thanks for telling about the update from Jess on the vengeance thread, that post was extremely insightful (and to quote react replying to that post in that thread:

This is genuinely one of the most insightful and thoughtful things that has ever been written on this forum by the dev team, thank you for this. This is the kind of communication that will help restore trust with the community. Really hope to see more of this moving forward.

I had tuned out of that main vengeance thread due to the (still on going by a select few) spamming of irrelevant nonsense comments that were constantly being repeated ad nauseum on every topic that mentions vengeance, so I hadn't seen that update until you pointed it out here.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Thanks for telling about the update from Jess on the vengeance thread, that post was extremely insightful (and to quote react replying to that post in that thread:

This is genuinely one of the most insightful and thoughtful things that has ever been written on this forum by the dev team, thank you for this. This is the kind of communication that will help restore trust with the community. Really hope to see more of this moving forward.

I had tuned out of that main vengeance thread due to the (still on going by a select few) spamming of irrelevant nonsense comments that were constantly being repeated ad nauseum on every topic that mentions vengeance, so I hadn't seen that update until you pointed it out here.

My pleasure!

Honestly, what she says in that post should be shouted from the mountaintops because it's a monumental statement, but it's just there on page 12 of the thread at the bottom of her response. For all the times people have told us, "Ball Groups don't cause lag, stupid!'' or to deny seeing the obvious impact they have, there it is in black and... well, green and white (which is a lot more impactful in this scenario.)

If I was better at such things, I'd probably use her quote and start a post because honestly it gives me hope I didn't have before, and I'm sure others could use the same. Alas, pretty much every time I try to quote double in a post let alone from outside the thread, it ends poorly indeed.

So here I am just hoping it will come (soon!) with the third part of that PvP Q&A and be the big focus of the discussion.