The average Vengeance experience is back! Such WOW

Sarannah · December 4

Drawing conclusions WAY too fast I see! Even the above screenshot has 260 players total... on the first evening, directly after an update, after everyone had their builds reset, and only counting the homed campaign players. This is almost the same number as a primetime 360 grey host already!

Besides, what is the maximum population in vengeance right now for this test? Is it the 900 as it was before? If it is 900, there are WAY more players then stated above, based on the graphs shown!

PS: Not really having much free time right now, but I will definitely play some vengeance this weekend!

BardokRedSnow · December 4

.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Did some spying on the campaign to see how it was going... I see
people talking about how its so much fun in zone while the map stays stagnant, EP is three bars in, everyone else is two bar, and DC has so few players that have played thus far that the leaderboard has only counted 77 players.

On pc na at this hour, when there's only one campaign available, these numbers are very bad. Even for the first day of a campaign which typically is one of the most active regardless of the weekday. All factions are locked out normally, which I know they raised the cap for this test, 300 per faction, but 77 dc only on the leaderboard counters any arguments about the pop lock increase.

AD's is at 82, and EP is the only faction that has 100 recorded which matches the logic of what the bars show.

Assuming the bars are accurate representation of the pop, which I think it is due to the leaderboards' telling numbers, this is a pretty bad day one even for a wednesday in pc na.

Gaping flaw in your premise. Maybe if you actually PvPed you know what the flaw was.

You're right, I never pvp ever

BardokRedSnow · December 4

Sarannah wrote: »

Drawing conclusions WAY too fast I see! Even the above screenshot has 260 players total... on the first evening, directly after an update, after everyone had their builds reset, and only counting the homed campaign players. This is almost the same number as a primetime 360 grey host already!

Besides, what is the maximum population in vengeance right now for this test? Is it the 900 as it was before? If it is 900, there are WAY more players then stated above, based on the graphs shown!

PS: Not really having much free time right now, but I will definitely play some vengeance this weekend!

The point was that regardless of all of these circumstances, we have way more players than this on GH first day of any campaign, its totally locked and with a queue by 8pm eastern. Vengeance had only 77 players on the leaderboards, thats very low for us, even for a wednesday first day of the campaign.

That shows how many of us didnt bother participating the first day. Will it improve, we'll see.

And yea you could assume some didnt bother to make the campaign their home, but the population bar matches the numbers of the leaderboard roughly.

Stridig · December 4

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Did some spying on the campaign to see how it was going... I see
people talking about how its so much fun in zone while the map stays stagnant, EP is three bars in, everyone else is two bar, and DC has so few players that have played thus far that the leaderboard has only counted 77 players.

On pc na at this hour, when there's only one campaign available, these numbers are very bad. Even for the first day of a campaign which typically is one of the most active regardless of the weekday. All factions are locked out normally, which I know they raised the cap for this test, 300 per faction, but 77 dc only on the leaderboard counters any arguments about the pop lock increase.

AD's is at 82, and EP is the only faction that has 100 recorded which matches the logic of what the bars show.

Assuming the bars are accurate representation of the pop, which I think it is due to the leaderboards' telling numbers, this is a pretty bad day one even for a wednesday in pc na.

Gaping flaw in your premise. Maybe if you actually PvPed you know what the flaw was.

Lol. What??

Bignupie1911 · December 4

PSNA and its extremely laggy and horrible performance for everyone at no bars and there are no sets or setups to blame. Vengeance is terrible and must be the idea of someone who does not play the game. This should have been a separate option for PvP with triple ap and other rewards to incentivize players to be guinea pigs. Everyone has left and is just waiting for this to be over, unfortunately for ESO some players that leave will never return

.ideas : Remove leaderboards and emperor, remove the banners war and have cyrodiil be team based with 3 teams no team or alliance swapping during the campaign. Also give us something powerful to counter ball groups I think Uncle Sheo said he had access to more of the other princes artifacts bring them on.

Also the castles and outposts could be redesigned to be an actual castles or fort with rooms and furnishings.

Run double ap weekends etc

Imperial City

To get more people in they need an incentive and telvar is not working. Maybe add something that prevents you from loosing telvar upon defeat. Could have a high stakes system where if you carry over so much telvar and defeat enemies you earn much more telvar but can’t use telvar loss protection and you loose more if defeated. Also the sewers are said to go much deeper, add more levels with increasing difficulty per level with a boss gauntlet ending with molar himself in a hard mode battle with good rewards.

Add a 1v1 arena mode

BardokRedSnow · December 4

I think emperor is a necessary part of cyrodiil, to give some players an extra incentive to want to build ap. If anything they should add more exclusive costumes, like a periodical upgrade to the emperor's regalia, because boy is it dated. Give players more incentives like that to want to be on the leaderboard. And also maybe get rid of ravenwatch and blackreach where its way easier to get emperor, and I guess they can keep the kiddy pool campaigns for mym. Id rather they didnt though, way too easy for non pvpers to get that stuff vs pve where you actually have to work to get godslayer and other hardcore trifecta titles for trials.

Or pay for a carry lol but either way you're earning it with a lot more effort than mym.

The_Meathead · December 4

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Vengeance had only 77 players on the leaderboards, thats very low for us, even for a wednesday first day of the campaign.

I can only speak for myself, but my dumb arse didn't bother to click Home on the campaign because it didn't matter for previous Vengeance tests and just hit it today after this thread reminded me.

You have to use AP Buff food in the campaign this time, as well, as opposed to before you enter, too - because your AP accumulates IN the campaign itself now, while in earlier ones it didn't come to you until you left Vengeance Cyrodiil. So I think the whole scoring/Emperor thing has been updated to actually track, where it didn't before.

I don't want Vengeance to become the norm for PvP, at all, but it's been pretty populated in here and I don't see any lag like others are mentioning (though I don't doubt their veracity. That stuff differs for everyone.) It's not crazy huge numbers of players like the first go-round, but there are significant sieges regularly and it's about like an especially busy night on Grey Host for numbers, with the caveat it's all Zergs and no Ballgroups.

I'm largely in total agreement with you and the others who are anti-Vengeance, or rather I'm just very pro-customization and true builds, but I'm still taking part to see exactly what is going on and what changes were made, and gonna keep spouting what I see for anyone curious that isn't in there.

blktauna · December 4

I played until my hands were too sore to continue. I love this ruleset even if range is borked and theres no real aoe. I just go full brawler mode and fling myself into battle. Glorious.

Lol I didn't home the campaign because I rarely bother to home any campaign. A fault I admit lol

Anyway It was superb that The usual suspects and their cheese builds were mostly missing but for 2 or 3 particuar suspects there was an awful lot of desynching happening around them. And I got booted twice when all theree factions were in one place and I ground to a screaming halt.

Better than regular GH which I avoid now because Its always a laggy stutterfest for me in there, even with a good machine.

YandereGirlfriend · December 4

I went in last night and had a reasonable time (albeit with very low expectations).

But the population did not really feel much larger than a typical GH prime time evening. It was hard for my group to find actual fights despite the three bars for all sides. Fights were very feast or famine - either it was entirely your zerg bulldozing a handful of enemy defenders or it was the reverse. Situations where it was many vs. many were far and few between and definitely did not feel on the same level as those found in V1 and V2 (which were legitimately like, "Oh dang, this IS a lot of players all in the same place!"

Performance was fine for me under those generally un-trying conditions. Though some in my group reported lag spikes and one of them was randomly booted back to PvE.

All of the previous balance and nerfed depth comments from previous iterations apply. The perks and such were fine but were so small that they didn't really shape your experience much differently. I chose the medic and healed. Healing is still OP vs. damage but siege reigns supreme as the truest EZMode of the format.

Balance is also warped by the inability to meaningfully combat CC and the opportunity cost to simply spam CC is always lower than it is for the target to mitigate it, which is the reverse of how a proper combat system should be designed.

LadyGP · December 4

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I went in last night and had a reasonable time (albeit with very low expectations).

But the population did not really feel much larger than a typical GH prime time evening. It was hard for my group to find actual fights despite the three bars for all sides. Fights were very feast or famine - either it was entirely your zerg bulldozing a handful of enemy defenders or it was the reverse. Situations where it was many vs. many were far and few between and definitely did not feel on the same level as those found in V1 and V2 (which were legitimately like, "Oh dang, this IS a lot of players all in the same place!"

Performance was fine for me under those generally un-trying conditions. Though some in my group reported lag spikes and one of them was randomly booted back to PvE.

All of the previous balance and nerfed depth comments from previous iterations apply. The perks and such were fine but were so small that they didn't really shape your experience much differently. I chose the medic and healed. Healing is still OP vs. damage but siege reigns supreme as the truest EZMode of the format.

Balance is also warped by the inability to meaningfully combat CC and the opportunity cost to simply spam CC is always lower than it is for the target to mitigate it, which is the reverse of how a proper combat system should be designed.

Been telling you for a while... veng is just a zerg fest. Glad to hear you finally agree. (not a bait post)

BardokRedSnow · December 5

From the people saying normal greyhost is laggy, stuttery, etc, I wonder how many people are confusing lag with pc performance.

Like if you go into greyhost with primetime numbers, and you dont have a decent pc, you will notice issues, like a sound glitch for instance and sometimes turn based pvp. I had that on my old graphics card. Not saying a new gpu eliminates lag lol, ping is different but i dont think people for instance know how bad ambient occlusion, high grass detail (the map is huge and one instance with all these players, turn it down.) and screen reflection etc, can kill your performance if you're in cyrodiil.

If you dont have at least a 3070 or so you probably need to turn that stuff down. Won't help you with ping related issues though but it does help. Even I still turn grass down and shadow etc, I dont need any of that in cyrodiil.

Necrotech_Master · December 5

licenturion wrote: »

There has always been a discrepancy between controller UI and keyboard layout. No idea if this is a bug. Maybe Kevin knows.

This is what I see on my end:

When I plug in my controller on the same campaign gives me this 1 second later

Either way, seems pretty great for a weekday evening.

the only thing i can guess is that its tracked different

the normal UI has states of: 1 bar, 2 bar, 3 bar, lock symbol (essentially 4 bars total)

the console/controller UI has states of 0 of 3 blocks, 1 of 3 blocks, 2 of 3 blocks, and 3 of 3 blocks (no lock symbol)

both have 4 states still, but it would probably make sense to have them be more consistently displayed between the UIs

YandereGirlfriend · December 5

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

From the people saying normal greyhost is laggy, stuttery, etc, I wonder how many people are confusing lag with pc performance.

Like if you go into greyhost with primetime numbers, and you dont have a decent pc, you will notice issues, like a sound glitch for instance and sometimes turn based pvp. I had that on my old graphics card. Not saying a new gpu eliminates lag lol, ping is different but i dont think people for instance know how bad ambient occlusion, high grass detail (the map is huge and one instance with all these players, turn it down.) and screen reflection etc, can kill your performance if you're in cyrodiil.

If you dont have at least a 3070 or so you probably need to turn that stuff down. Won't help you with ping related issues though but it does help. Even I still turn grass down and shadow etc, I dont need any of that in cyrodiil.

I think you've replied to the wrong person.

I've never been a Vengeance booster.

BardokRedSnow · December 5

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

From the people saying normal greyhost is laggy, stuttery, etc, I wonder how many people are confusing lag with pc performance.

Like if you go into greyhost with primetime numbers, and you dont have a decent pc, you will notice issues, like a sound glitch for instance and sometimes turn based pvp. I had that on my old graphics card. Not saying a new gpu eliminates lag lol, ping is different but i dont think people for instance know how bad ambient occlusion, high grass detail (the map is huge and one instance with all these players, turn it down.) and screen reflection etc, can kill your performance if you're in cyrodiil.

If you dont have at least a 3070 or so you probably need to turn that stuff down. Won't help you with ping related issues though but it does help. Even I still turn grass down and shadow etc, I dont need any of that in cyrodiil.

I think you've replied to the wrong person.

I've never been a Vengeance booster.

I think you quoted the wrong person xD

fizzybeef · December 5

Yeah well i guess on consoles the test is a fail.

PS and Xbox EU never even one bar LOL.

Like 20 people playing in total.

Veinblood1965 · December 5

It just reminds me of a few other PVP games where you can chose from a few builds and jump right in. It's fun for a while but after a time it's boring as you know what. Once the new wears off it's be a ghost town like non-CP servers.

Durham · December 5

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It just reminds me of a few other PVP games where you can chose from a few builds and jump right in. It's fun for a while but after a time it's boring as you know what. Once the new wears off it's be a ghost town like non-CP servers.

We’ve been around since 2015, and our guild spends about 80% of our time in PvP and 20% in PvE. PvE in this game is honestly a joke at this point—you can be half naked and punch mobs to death, and you can solo most dungeons without much effort. Now it feels like PvP is heading down the same path, just in a different form.

The direction Vengeance is taking looks like something that will burn out quickly. You finish a campaign, and… then what? It gets boring fast. There’s no personal depth, no growth, nothing that keeps you invested long-term.

For us, this path doesn’t add value—it actually pushes us away. And I know our guild isn’t the only one that feels this way. A lot of long-time players and PvP-focused groups are going to struggle to find a place in this model.

lostineternity · December 5

amiiegee wrote: »

Playstation EU Server

I couldn’t wait to experience the same thing as in the other Vengeance “tests” , so I just logged in to see if I could finally enjoy those much-loved large-scale battles with 900 players.

Unfortunately, everyone must still be busy downloading the 1 GB update, so it doesn’t seem too full yet.

The first day at prime time usually isn’t too full anyway, right?
Vengeance is really an incredible win for the whole game — you can see people are loving it!

yeah yeah a lot of people were trying to play this parody of pvp during the first iteration as well (it's pity that only first few days and then everyone left, and of course the ZOS conveniently hid this fact in their stats in the latest vengeance post)

Gabriel_H · December 5

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Did some spying on the campaign to see how it was going... I see
people talking about how its so much fun in zone while the map stays stagnant, EP is three bars in, everyone else is two bar, and DC has so few players that have played thus far that the leaderboard has only counted 77 players.

On pc na at this hour, when there's only one campaign available, these numbers are very bad. Even for the first day of a campaign which typically is one of the most active regardless of the weekday. All factions are locked out normally, which I know they raised the cap for this test, 300 per faction, but 77 dc only on the leaderboard counters any arguments about the pop lock increase.

AD's is at 82, and EP is the only faction that has 100 recorded which matches the logic of what the bars show.

Assuming the bars are accurate representation of the pop, which I think it is due to the leaderboards' telling numbers, this is a pretty bad day one even for a wednesday in pc na.

Gaping flaw in your premise. Maybe if you actually PvPed you know what the flaw was.

You're right, I never pvp ever

Then you should know about how scoreboards work. Instead you keep doubling down on the same false premise. Try again.

BXR_Lonestar · December 5

IMO, Vengeance is bad again because there are just not enough players right now to support Vengeance. The premise behind Vengeance is to bring back massive, large scale battles by increasing the number of players on the server, but because of the unpopular combat choices the devs have made and because of the significant dip in player population, there aren't enough players on any single platform to support Vengeance.

Perhaps it is time to table the Vengeance project for now and make cross-platforming and combat changes a priority so that the player base is consolidated enough to support Vengeance, and hopefully as they try to fix what they broke with this game, players will return, and between those two things the player population will be healthy enough to support Vengeance.

Vengeance was a GOOD TIME the first time I played it, but the first time I played it was the first time it was brought to Xbox NA, and the servers were so full that I had a 50+ q just to get in. Now, barely a bar is registering for any one alliance, so it is just like playing normal Cyrodil, but stripped down and with no added benefit for it. The size of the fights we're having aren't even big enough to cause me significant performance issues in normal Cyrodil.

BardokRedSnow · December 5

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Did some spying on the campaign to see how it was going... I see
people talking about how its so much fun in zone while the map stays stagnant, EP is three bars in, everyone else is two bar, and DC has so few players that have played thus far that the leaderboard has only counted 77 players.

On pc na at this hour, when there's only one campaign available, these numbers are very bad. Even for the first day of a campaign which typically is one of the most active regardless of the weekday. All factions are locked out normally, which I know they raised the cap for this test, 300 per faction, but 77 dc only on the leaderboard counters any arguments about the pop lock increase.

AD's is at 82, and EP is the only faction that has 100 recorded which matches the logic of what the bars show.

Assuming the bars are accurate representation of the pop, which I think it is due to the leaderboards' telling numbers, this is a pretty bad day one even for a wednesday in pc na.

Gaping flaw in your premise. Maybe if you actually PvPed you know what the flaw was.

You're right, I never pvp ever

Then you should know about how scoreboards work. Instead you keep doubling down on the same false premise. Try again.

Or I can ignore you since everything you learned about pvp is from the forums, and also you've yet to actually state a counter argument like the others have...

You can disagree with me, but stop being annoying about it, in every thread just because zos isn't hiring you. Just saying "Heh you're wrong and you dont pvp, major flaw in your analysis bro" isn't productive.

amiiegee · December 5

Vengeance is literally dead and nobody plays it on my server.

Divine1976 · 2:32AM

Bored after two days,

Night blades are op and numbers win

aetherix8 · 5:20AM

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

IMO, Vengeance is bad again because there are just not enough players right now to support Vengeance. The premise behind Vengeance is to bring back massive, large scale battles by increasing the number of players on the server, but because of the unpopular combat choices the devs have made and because of the significant dip in player population, there aren't enough players on any single platform to support Vengeance.

Perhaps it is time to table the Vengeance project for now and make cross-platforming and combat changes a priority so that the player base is consolidated enough to support Vengeance, and hopefully as they try to fix what they broke with this game, players will return, and between those two things the player population will be healthy enough to support Vengeance.

Vengeance was a GOOD TIME the first time I played it, but the first time I played it was the first time it was brought to Xbox NA, and the servers were so full that I had a 50+ q just to get in. Now, barely a bar is registering for any one alliance, so it is just like playing normal Cyrodil, but stripped down and with no added benefit for it. The size of the fights we're having aren't even big enough to cause me significant performance issues in normal Cyrodil.

PC EU has 3 bars every evening; to say that not a single platform has enough players is false.

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It just reminds me of a few other PVP games where you can chose from a few builds and jump right in. It's fun for a while but after a time it's boring as you know what. Once the new wears off it's be a ghost town like non-CP servers.

Perks and loadouts aren't the same as premade builds. It's just that atm we have very few options to build, but perhaps next test will see additional perks and loadouts, so we can have some decent customization choices.

xR3ACTORx · 10:53AM

Since asking questions always got me send to an icy vacation I'll rather save my words.

Thank God there's enough clownshows for everyone on the world.

ToddIngram · 4:53PM

amiiegee wrote: »

Vengeance is literally dead and nobody plays it on my server.

Vengeance is DOA. Low population and still bad performance.