My answer will change if future Vengeance “tests” either clean up our skills or introduce sets.

There's a lot of better balanced, better-running, and honestly overall better-handled PvP games out there than ESO. What makes PvP in ESO special is using the character you've built, including their skills and sets and everything that makes them "them," throughout the whole game.

I get to get on Red, my main, who I dragged through Coldharbour for far too long because I didn't understand quest markers, who got spat up onto the shores of Khenarthi's Roost and met Raz, who I played and built and learned all the way through the main story, meeting people NPC and real, getting pwned by world bosses, etc etc... and then I get to take her into Cyrodiil and test her mettle against other players in the story-relevant alliance war, as a soldier for my alliance, alongside whom I'd been playing all along. For the queen, and so on. There's a personal investment there. My personal build isn't meta, but it works for me because it's built on the skills (and skill bars), sets, and patterns I learned playing the rest of the game. It means something to me. It feels good to play. It feels like I'm actually playing my character.

I have a lot of characters now, and all of them were built with RP-PvP in mind. They all have a theme, a little story, and builds to match. They're fun to play because they're my characters and builds, all unique and enjoyable to me personally. I've thrown a LOT of time, effort, and passion into putting them together and endlessly fiddling around with their builds, just to get them *just right* for the kind of gameplay experience I'm after with them. They cannot be reduced to templates.

With Vengeance, there's no meaningful difference between my characters. Everybody has the same access to everything, and anything accomplished prior to queuing in means nothing. They might as well just have us all play as color-coded polymorphs. I can pull something together and get kills as well as anybody else in Vengeance, but why bother? Again, there are plenty of better-run PvP games, or even just games with PvP out there. None of them allow for the level of immersion and characterization of ESO, but if ESO is to remove all but your cosmetics (and base class/race, probably) the moment you step into a PvP zone... might as well go play something else.


At the very least, something else that doesn't drop something like "hey we're thinking of removing your favorite part of the game lol, happy holiday we're on break" and leaving the fallout to the longsuffering community manager, again.
Seriously, I hope that guy has a steady supply of ibuprofen and a good support system.

I encourage people who pressed -no- friendly to express their opinion and explain how this is not destroying the uniqueness.

PVP loadouts are a good thing from my POV. They encourage new players to get into the game mode. The uniqueness of builds in ESO PVP is a nice thing too but if it breaks the overall balance, i will rather stick to the Vengeance instead. Balance is more important in PVP than uniqueness of builds.

if the performance cant be fixed it cant be fixed - you have to start dealing with reality - zos can only do what they are trying to do A) limit stuff like vengeance to get to an acceptable performance for large scale battles or limiting the number of participants to smaller scale what they are doing with BG and the additional pvp mode coming up

Not a serious PVP person, I'm too old for the thrill of the chase thing but I do enjoy the large scale battles of Cyrodiil. The issue I run into is the factions tend to like to stack for large battles 2v1 and it leads to major lag and disconnects for me. I also would like to actually be able to join my home campaign during prime time and for the love of *** during Whitestrakes.

Constantly having break free not go off, lag spikes, and what not is not fun at all. If Cyrodiil can get a better experience for me, I am all for it.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

But one of the main reasons to PvP in ESO is coming up with your own unique build and then testing it out in the field.

It's a flawed premise. Vengeance reduces the total number of skills you can take, and removes CP to replace it with a perk system. So the total number of builds is much reduced but you can still come up with your own unique build.

We don't know yet. Vengeance is still in early stages of development. A lot will depend on whether/which sets will be incorporated.

No... I think PvP as it is now locks out people who don't understand builds and how to make them effective, so they get one-hit-killed whenever they try to go in to Cyrodiil/IC. Vengeance sounds like it evens the playing field for PvP.

robwolf666 wrote: »

No... I think PvP as it is now locks out people who don't understand builds and how to make them effective, so they get one-hit-killed whenever they try to go in to Cyrodiil/IC. Vengeance sounds like it evens the playing field for PvP.

This is exactly that, maybe watch some PvP videos or at least ask someone who knows how to PvP in current cyrodiil. You learn the game at least don't be lazy when it comes to PvP. I've done brawler builds, gank builds, heals heck I've even tried bombing every build is something new to learn.

Not a single "No" comment answers the actual question in the poll. Fascinating.

robwolf666 wrote: »

No... I think PvP as it is now locks out people who don't understand builds and how to make them effective, so they get one-hit-killed whenever they try to go in to Cyrodiil/IC. Vengeance sounds like it evens the playing field for PvP.

Straight from the horse's mouth lol. PvP as it is now locks out people who don't know how to play the game and can't be bothered to learn, and so it's bad. It's frustrating as all get out that PvP is treated the way it is by the devs, but comments like this just make me so sad. Why is it ok for PvE to have standards and an actual skill/effort curve and an endgame, but PvP is expected to cater to the lowest common denominator?

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

personally i never played in cyro during any of the vengeance tests

on one hand i could definitely see it as being more balanced pvp (no uber tanks, fewer ganks) and fights wouldnt end in stalemates, or result in half a dozen people chasing 1 person around a tower for hours on end

on the other hand i can also agree with people that the build limitations might not allow you to play your character exactly how you would want/would normally play

based on what they said in their post about it, what will likely happen is it will shrink the list of camps down to 2: grey host and vengeance

grey host will be current normal pvp with the low pop caps, vengance will be the new balanced ruleset with higher pop caps

Yeah. I'm expecting it to replace no-cp and under 50 PvP moreso than Gray Host. I'm hoping the no faction lock cp option also sticks around but I'm doubtful.

Sarannah wrote: »

No! As PvP needs to be fair and equal and about skill for all players, vengeance is what PvP should have stayed over the years. Grey host should never have been allowed to become a veteran's paradise where they can play gods killing everyone else over and over. Chasing everyone away from that mode, basically gatekeeping an entire gamemode for themselves. That is not PvP.

The reason why I suspect so many PvPers are panicking right now, is because they assumed they were really skilled at PvP, but noticed in vengeance when they are against an equal opponent that they are not.

When there is a longterm vengeance campaign there will also be theorycrafting and meta builds for that mode. It is just that the tests were too short to get to that level of gameplay yet.

PS: Noone wants grey host removed for those who like that mode.
PPS: Grey host not getting the performance issues fixed moving forward, does not mean the mode will no longer receive future support(for fixing bugs/fixing server issues/receiving updates/etc).

Wow.

1: ZOS is to blame for the imbalance, not the players.

2: Probably for some newer PvPers, that only know this meta. If the vets have to play Vengeance you should expect you’ll be getting rolled by Magblades and Magsorcs at every choke point, all 900 of you.

3: Source? Cause all I’ve heard is templates and perks.

PS: Yes they do.
PPS: Again, source? And the majority of humans that know ESO realize balance and performance go hand and hand, ZOS refuses to balance anything which means they aren’t “fixing” anything either.

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

At least Vengeance could hypothetically even the playing field.

So it is indeed destroying the uniqueness… wich is the question of the poll 🙄😵‍💫

I feel like some missunderstand the poll lmao.

People are voting no but literally writing basically that everything is the same with vengeance.

„I vote no because i like it but i am fully aware it’s destroying the uniqueness“