"Every now and then just ride in a direction..."

Melian · May 2014

I can never really muster the enthusiasm to explore randomly generated content. The only exception is Minecraft, and, after all, that's all there is in Minecraft. In Arena and Daggerfall I got bored with "exploring" pretty quickly. It doesn't really feel like exploring, more like walking on a treadmill.

I do agree that the zones seem a bit small, but maybe just because they're so closely packed with quests, cities, etc. There isn't really any wilderness.

wrlifeboil · May 2014

Salsadoom wrote: »

Bigger maps would be great, but you would be amazed what they stick in there if you pay attention. Keep your eyes open, they had a sense of humor when they made this game.

Some favorites:

I found this complex recipe book, if you actually read it, at the end it says 'Throw the burnt mess away and eat cake instead'

I ran across a skeleton laying on the ground with an arrow in it's skull, next to the skeleton was an apple.....

Been alot more but those two stick out

Nothing meme-able like "took an arrow to the knee" which even got baked into WoW.

Moonscythe · May 2014

There is a difference between a map being open and being small. This map is open in that you can go anywhere and do (almost) anything until you reach the edge. There may be some places you can't enter or objects you can't interact with as much as you could in Skyrim but that is the nature of an MMO. As for being small that is all in the mind of the player. Skyrim wasn't all that big either if you consider that you could ride a horse around the circumference in 24 hours or less (in-game time). That's pretty small.

I assume there will be more map added along the way in more meaningful ways than just dropping in dungeons. There is certainly room for the map to expand for all three alliances.

devolutedub17_ESO · May 2014

I have found so many lore books just sitting out in the open. Had I not took off exploring in 'that' direction, I might not have found them.

Sarenia · May 2014

There are some little nooks and crannies that are easy to miss.

I do agree that much larger maps with more "wilderness" to get lost in and explore would have been nice though. Perhaps future areas will have more emphasis on getting lost in the wilds.

/feedback your desire for this. Here on the forum you'll just hear regurgitated opinions on whether or not the game has enough exploration. Enough actual feedback could have a positive result though.

Csub · May 2014

Vuron wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

bdipaulyb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely agree with OP. There just isn't enough to do to get you up levels. Randomly generated quests/dungeons would help.

I always out-leveled content while I was leveling to 50. And you know why? Because I didn't just go from quest to quest. I explored.

I out-leveled the content, but I have to agree with the OP in that there is almost no reason to explore.

The game designers have done a great job of fooling the players in to thinking that the world is open when that is not the case. You can complete every quest in a zone by following their strictly laid out path.

You begin the main quest line for a zone. It places a quest marker on the map. As you are following the road to get to this marker, more quest givers will pop up along the way (also delves, world bosses, and anchors will show up). You take a detour to complete these quests and continue on your way. Completing the next major objective starts the process again. Completing the last major objective in the zone will give you a quest to talk to someone in the next zone and the next zone will work the same way.

My first couple beta weekends, I simply walked around the map and explored. There isn't anything off the beaten path that you won't find by following the path designed by the devs. It will actually slow you down and cause you to miss quests if you don't follow the roads. This was one of the major differences from Skyrim that I don't like.

No, you can't complete all the quests just by following other quests. The best example to this is Shadowfen but I also had to explore in other zones too :P

poodlemasterb16_ESO · May 2014

I just sent my Wood Elf level 7 Enchanter way into level 40 territory just to find some good libraries. Leveling enchanting is ... difficult. He came back at level 9, who'd a' guessed it?

claudius_Dark · May 2014

Just regarding the OP:

Often I need to get to a quest point and one option is the road. But on the map you can put a flag with 'F'

Then you can set a route that cuts through the backwoods instead of the path. On the way you can find materials nodes and sometimes a dungeon or camp.

claudius_Dark · May 2014

Also sometimes in my wanderings I hear a demonic voice talking to me and then through a portal some daedra come sometimes when I am not strong enough to fight them. Of course maybe I am just imagining it and need to see a doctor.

Capjack01 · May 2014

staying on the road almost never gets you jumped by vampire assassins and their minions or the like. that's a little out of no where surprise I just live for and often die from, but man those are fun

drschplatt · May 2014

It isn't so much a railroad, there are ways to explore. The first thing I do in most areas is to go get all the skyshards only stopping when things are simply too high level for me to continue. I've found that if you grab all the skyshards, you'll explore most of the important things on the map at the same time.

zaria · May 2014

Mie87 wrote: »

starstruck wrote: »

bdipaulyb16_ESO wrote: »

Randomly generated quests/dungeons would help.

Repeatable random quest and dungeons would be great! Something like what *** had.

Yes please.

It would be an good idea, in short an MMO need loads of content, quality is not as important as quantity as long as it also have quality content.
Skyrim is an decent example,
Also random dungeon: no, no not wow style, Daggerfall style, yes say 1% will be bugged so you can't reach end boss and 5% will randomly be to hard for an group of VR12 craglorn raiders, we could live with that as it would be true to daggerfall, reset and try again.

Laura · May 2014

thats pretty much how I leveled up. went back at vr10 and completed everything for fun. Guess we are playing different games here I was vr 10 before I even really got started with the last zone and that was with skipping quite a bit.

also the zones are small? I can agree with a lot of what you said (i was hoping it would be less liner too and there is an entire pandoras box of problems I could discuss with the game) but I didn't feel like the zones were small especially by MMO standards.

Catches_the_Sun · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

You know the line... just go in a direction and explore...

I haven't really felt it work like that. To get improved levels etc i've had to grind through everything on the maps... it havent felt like exploring or coming to new places, its just hopping from quest to quest.

The maps are also pretty SMALL! Yeah, some people might not think that, but once you actually start to ride around you will hit into the edge of the world pretty fast. Its like an ant exploring in a coffee cup.

A bit more actual "exploring" would have been fun... heck why not do some random generated dungeons for group play that are HUGE? Random generated VR dungeons to grind through or something, something NEW every time you go into it.

I'm pretty sure it would be possible to create fairly good algoritms that could random generate complete maps too, making the world frikken enormous. It could be random generated maps, locally for one player, shared to groups... instanced. In these maps, somewhere there are special quest givers or items in dungones or whatever that are really worth searching for. Then we can talk exploring...

Well, just make the world bigger! The linear zones aren't really mind blowing as it is.

Do people REALLY want to explore? I hear this as a complaint from time to time that there's no sense of exploration...yet 4 of the 6 hottest mods are "skyshards", which displays every shard on your map, "lorebooks", which displays every lorebook on your map, "harvestmap", which shows you every harvesting node, & "undiscovered", which shows you everything else on the map that you have yet to discover. Not too far behind those is the "minimap" addon. All of these things make exploration obsolete & yet they are among the most popular addons in the game.

Frankly, I don't use any of the above listed add-ons because it detracts from the spirit of the game. I have known people that use them all & then complain that there is no exploration. There can't be exploration if you're just chasing icons. Finding them on your own, however, is rewarding & does require some exploration to accomplish.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2014

Original Morrowind had this one right...(pre-GOTY version that had nothing marked on the map initially)

Bring back the Fog of War...and lessen the use of free icons on the compass. If I've already found it once, been told about it by a Ranger/local, place it there, otherwise, leave it blank.

FoW makes it easier to see where you have and have not been, and thus, where you want to go next...

Truly encourages exploration and NPC/lorebook interaction and you truly feel you've found something. (How could my character possibly know there's a mine on the other side of the mountain I am standing by without actually seeing a door, etc.

Outleveling is defintely the standard if you are trying to cover all content. I duo with a friend and solo as well. We've occasionally wandered into the higher level areas just to take a peek and get some loot.

As such, we usually end up with many grey quests because we've gone beyond the recommended level just through normal play.

Some things should stay at the level they are (Not much you can do with a Level 20 "Go get me 5 loaves of bread" kind of quest), some could be scaled to the character's level or group average. Not asking for more XP's or even different loot...just more of a challenge than it sometimes comes across.

I do like the achievements...helps us to see that we've truly (exception to follow) covered everything in an area before moving on.

We do find it a little odd (yet interesting) that we can get a Zone completed achievement and later come across another quest giver...

Don't know if content was added after the fact, or they just count the 'main' quests for a zone.

One last minor complaint...wish many of the dungeons were larger and perhaps more infested than they are. I realize they get reuse out of many of the layouts, and I understand why, but they do not feel like the dungeons in the standalone games...places you knew were going to be vast, nasty, & you wanted to make sure you were okay to be halfway through before just wandering through the door...

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Do people REALLY want to explore? I hear this as a complaint from time to time that there's no sense of exploration...yet 4 of the 6 hottest mods are "skyshards", which displays every shard on your map, "lorebooks", which displays every lorebook on your map, "harvestmap", which shows you every harvesting node, & "undiscovered", which shows you everything else on the map that you have yet to discover. Not too far behind those is the "minimap" addon. All of these things make exploration obsolete & yet they are among the most popular addons in the game.

Frankly, I don't use any of the above listed add-ons because it detracts from the spirit of the game. I have known people that use them all & then complain that there is no exploration. There can't be exploration if you're just chasing icons. Finding them on your own, however, is rewarding & does require some exploration to accomplish.

Heck yes...(To the exploration part, not the add-on part) It's an Elder Scrolls game, isn't it?

I'm the same way...I don't seek outside information unless I am absolutely stuck (which I have yet to be)...

If you go after these things, it becomes scripted...and it does become a grind...

Enjoy the game as it was intended...find, discover, triumph...(occasionally run like a school girl!). You'll be so much more immersed and the game becomes much more personalized to your character.

If you want a guided tour, check with the tourism dept. of any major city...10 gold will get you a walk around with major sites, and if you're lucky, you may catch a glimpse of the King or Queen! (Please don't feed the Daedra...)

Catches_the_Sun · May 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Heck yes...(To the exploration part, not the add-on part) It's an Elder Scrolls game, isn't it?

I'm the same way...I don't seek outside information unless I am absolutely stuck (which I have yet to be)...

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. You & I may want exploration, but the facts are that the addons I mentioned above are the top addons in the game. Every one of them accomplish the same task, which is to remove any feeling to discovery & exploration. Blame it on WoW, or whoever, but the fact is that today's MMO gamer just wants to follow icons on a minimap.

zaria · May 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Heck yes...(To the exploration part, not the add-on part) It's an Elder Scrolls game, isn't it?

I'm the same way...I don't seek outside information unless I am absolutely stuck (which I have yet to be)...

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. You & I may want exploration, but the facts are that the addons I mentioned above are the top addons in the game. Every one of them accomplish the same task, which is to remove any feeling to discovery & exploration. Blame it on WoW, or whoever, but the fact is that today's MMO gamer just wants to follow icons on a minimap.

VR is nice for exploring as the entire zone is one level, I kind of have myself out of the habit of doing quests as I find them.

badmojo · May 2014

I like how most sandbox games struggle to do randomly generated areas well, yet you expect it from a new MMO.

Mortelus · May 2014

bdipaulyb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely agree with OP. There just isn't enough to do to get you up levels. Randomly generated quests/dungeons would help.

I am level 15 and not even finished exploring half of the stonefalls map. Most of my quests are green. My fear is that XP is too easy to come by, with a dash of PvP, craft mat grinding and questing, I am well over leveled for the area I am now in.

Mortelus · May 2014

Xithian wrote: »

When I see these threads pop up (they do, every few days it seems) I wonder how long the people that are lower level than the content have been playing their character. If you take your time and explore you end up outleveling content fairly easily. I'm in the veteran ranks and there are still a ton of anchors and bosses that I have not done back in my faction area. There are two zones that I only half finished. The difference? I spent a month leveling my character to 50.

I spent a month leveling my character to 15 lol. I do have alts, but the highest is only 12

Cogo · May 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Do people REALLY want to explore? I hear this as a complaint from time to time that there's no sense of exploration...yet 4 of the 6 hottest mods are "skyshards", which displays every shard on your map, "lorebooks", which displays every lorebook on your map, "harvestmap", which shows you every harvesting node, & "undiscovered", which shows you everything else on the map that you have yet to discover. Not too far behind those is the "minimap" addon. All of these things make exploration obsolete & yet they are among the most popular addons in the game.

Frankly, I don't use any of the above listed add-ons because it detracts from the spirit of the game. I have known people that use them all & then complain that there is no exploration. There can't be exploration if you're just chasing icons. Finding them on your own, however, is rewarding & does require some exploration to accomplish.

You hit the nail right on the sore spot for a lot of people there.
You are perfectly correct. With these addons, or even one of em....exploration becomes work. And I wouldnt be surprised if most high levelers (not all) have these and even consider the game being unplayable without them.

One of the most fun thing I am up to in ESO is just Skyshard hunting....or I get sidetracked because I have a pathetic attentionspan, so as soon as I see a crafting node...Ill go get it...get into a fight with a crocodile...and he brings friends.....then I have no clue where the hell I am.

So I am trying to find my way again, and run into this wounded lizard that gives me a quite long questline (I did not know at the time), with a skillpoint in the end.
I didnt find the skyshard that day, but there is always another day.

ESO supports addons and that is good, because they even approve accepted sites to get them from, which is professional and feels safer, BUT, you wount find me using a single addon that plays the game for me.

If I had those addons you mentioned, Id probebly be lvl 50 and some veteran levels by now....but I would have missed most of the game by doing so. AND...the running around, following a perfect map, sound like work to me.

The reward I get when I accedently run into a skyshard is outstanding! No way I would take that fun from me!

Sue_D_Nim · May 2014

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Do people REALLY want to explore? I hear this as a complaint from time to time that there's no sense of exploration...yet 4 of the 6 hottest mods are "skyshards", which displays every shard on your map, "lorebooks", which displays every lorebook on your map, "harvestmap", which shows you every harvesting node, & "undiscovered", which shows you everything else on the map that you have yet to discover. Not too far behind those is the "minimap" addon. All of these things make exploration obsolete & yet they are among the most popular addons in the game.

Frankly, I don't use any of the above listed add-ons because it detracts from the spirit of the game. I have known people that use them all & then complain that there is no exploration. There can't be exploration if you're just chasing icons. Finding them on your own, however, is rewarding & does require some exploration to accomplish.

I'm just jumping in to clarify a point. Harvestmap only shows nodes that you've already discovered for yourself. It can't show undiscovered ones. Therefore, it doesn't feel like a cheat to me; as an inveterate explorer I use it and love it.

Pewpie · May 2014

The skyshard addons etc that people use is to not miss STATIC content that you will need to get to improve your character. These aren't really good for promoting exploring and travelling the world... Everyone want to get these and by giving you the easy option to show them on the map, everyone (well except a few) will use them.

To make exploring fun, it has to be content that is NOT static. VERY RARE spawns of certain mobs would make the game fun to just roam around looking for stuff. Right now if i been through all of reaper's march, there is no point going back. However, with the chance of spawning vr10 random dungeons (or something), randomly and rare on all maps it would make it fun to search through the mountains and swamps again.

It could even give you hints, you go to a tavern and hear a "rumor" someone found a hidden entrance in the XX mountains (random generated). Just NPCs talking, you have to stand around listen. Then you know where to head to search for something.

Dynamic content is fun. It must be rare though and not stuff that always happen when you go through a town (ala GW2 which i found extremely repetitive dynamic events).

Milrik · May 2014

Larger worlds or not, there is both negative and positive about that idea. I prefer something in between as traveling can be exhausting : ) . What i do like is that i have to same feeling as i would be playing any other elder scroll game. I have a main quest but i venture forth and explore the map in the hunt for diffrent adventures. I think that is what most player have to think like because ESO follows in the elder scroll gameplay fashion. If one comes from another mmo most people are use to a setup and path to play, that is quest from A to B as fast as possible then pvp and raid. The conclusion is that elder scroll fans are more use to this kind of gameplay as we encounter in ESO. Sorry if being abit off topic....

KerinKor · May 2014

Vuron wrote: »

I'm curious as to what you've found by exploring that can't be found by following my pattern. (Seriously, I'm not being a smartass). I've gotten the quest completion achievement in every zone by following this pattern, so I know that I'm not missing quests. Of course, you will miss treasure chests, scenery, and some cool looking locations by not exploring, but I'm pretty sure you won't miss anything related to progressing.

Many delves don't have any quests taking you there, many Skyshards are certainly in places quests don't require you to go to and some quests themselves are given by NPCs 'in the wild' far away from the theme park areas.

That said, I'd not for a second argue this is a sandpit game.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · May 2014

I have 8 chars and only one is a mule. I know a lot about this game now and I'll be playing it for a long time.

One of the easiest ways to level a skill is to read books. Once you have read the ones in your local area you stop leveling that way. Once you discover the books in new areas give you more levels you start to send your hard to level characters on adventures to find new reading material.

It's fun being insta kill sneaking around places you really should not be and when you get killed you can often get further out there by what I call 'wayshire respawn exploration' travel.