Future of Battlegrounds

Arkew · October 24

Moonspawn wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i would totally rework bg currently medal system for fell rewarding for everyone.

1: add damage blocked (who are given when ally you shield take damage).

2: remove repeatable medal who include tanking big hit / making big heal / doing big hit.

For each gamemode.

Deathmatch:

keep the actual medal about first kill / kill / multikill.

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked who reward player 100 points.

Crazy King / Domination:

now reward medal even if the flags near the player are not taken / taken by ennemy.

add new medal for killing player near a flags (not taken).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked near a flags who reward player 100 points.

Chaosball

keep medal for wearing chaosball / killing chaosball user.

maybe add medal for killing a player who damaged a chaosball wearer (ally) in last 5 sec ?

Medal now trigger when doing action near non-taken chaosball and near chaosball wearer (ally like ennemy).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near a chaosball or chaosball wearer who reward player 100 points.

Capture the Relic:

now medal are rewarded when near the relic or relic holder.

add repeatible medal (with cooldown or who give not a lot of points) for bashing a player who try to take the relic

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near the relic / relic holder who reward player 100 points.

this would encourage ppl to heal/shield ally, damage ennemy and not only keep their heal/shield only for chaosball wearer/relic holder as long they are close to them.

Another idea:

Add a special penalty for not playing near objective who reduce damage healing done by 15 % for each 12 sec (or maybe more time in 8v8 because maps are bigger) not near objective , can be cumulated 5 time for a total of 75 % dmg/ heal penalty.
(player in spawn are not affected by it,being near objective remove all penalty).

I can tell you put a lot of thought here. It's a shame we can't even get ZOS to do somehing as simple as reducing the critical healing medal.
Tell me @Arkew : As long as they didn't try to fight their way out, do you know why 4 people could almost always escape from spawn in 4v4v4, but 8 people almost never can in 8v8?

simple because in 4vs4 / 8vs8 there is only one flank for ennemy team so they can keep the other team under their eyes when in 4v4v4 even you have 2 flank instead of one so you can't keep an eye on both except by separating your team in half that would reduce greatly your chance of survive if both team get out with their 4 player, also they can be distracted by the other team.

Haki_7 · October 24

Moonspawn wrote: »

I can tell you put a lot of thought here. It's a shame we can't even get ZOS to do something as simple as reducing the critical healing medal.
Tell me @Arkew : As long as they didn't try to fight their way out, do you know why 4 people could almost always escape from spawn in 4v4v4, but 8 people almost never can in 8v8?

I may have found a new reason to adore two-teams BGs. Would you care to guess how a match this FUN managed to last for nearly the full duration?

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 108: Waiting 27 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)

https://youtu.be/nQ4OlZ8MmYY

Udrath · October 24

As long as players continue to que up in PVE gear, they’re gonna be bad lopsided matches. In the old 4v4v4 usually everyone was in pvp gear. They don’t want the pvp experience, just the daily so nothing changes.

Arkew · October 24

Udrath wrote: »

As long as players continue to que up in PVE gear, they’re gonna be bad lopsided matches. In the old 4v4v4 usually everyone was in pvp gear. They don’t want the pvp experience, just the daily so nothing changes.

that's why i would like they change weekly/ daily endeavor , play X battleground into win X battleground for force them to invest in pvp gear or left battleground.

Udrath · October 24

Arkew wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

As long as players continue to que up in PVE gear, they’re gonna be bad lopsided matches. In the old 4v4v4 usually everyone was in pvp gear. They don’t want the pvp experience, just the daily so nothing changes.

that's why i would like they change weekly/ daily endeavor , play X battleground into win X battleground for force them to invest in pvp gear or left battleground.

My opinion is they should shake up PVE entirely so people have to make builds that are similar to PvP builds (deal damage, be able to take damage, heal themselves, etc). I thought that was the whole point of hybrid/subclassing. PvE mobs should randomly crit and have crit damage modifiers so crit resistant is valuable in pve. Like fighting elite mobs should be on par with fighting a player in terms of damage and cc.

moderatelyfatman · October 25

Arkew wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

As long as players continue to que up in PVE gear, they’re gonna be bad lopsided matches. In the old 4v4v4 usually everyone was in pvp gear. They don’t want the pvp experience, just the daily so nothing changes.

that's why i would like they change weekly/ daily endeavor , play X battleground into win X battleground for force them to invest in pvp gear or left battleground.

This is more likely to result in PvErs abandoning BGs entirely. Then you'll have to queue for 30+ minutes.

Haki_7 · October 25

Udrath wrote: »

As long as players continue to que up in PVE gear, they’re gonna be bad lopsided matches.

@Udrath I believe it's already been formally demonstrated that most of the worst problems of two-teams BGs would remain even if ''population was infinite and matchmaking was perfect''?

Moonspawn · October 25

Haki_7 wrote: »

I may have found a new reason to adore two-teams BGs. Would you care to guess how a match this FUN managed to last for nearly the full duration?

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 108: Waiting 27 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)
https://youtu.be/nQ4OlZ8MmYY

Match like that should have degenerated into spawncamping. Some would inevitably grow tired of the nonsense and go around completing the objective uncontested while everyone wished for entire thing to be over as soon as possible. Doesn't explain the score though. Did people leave in droves at some point?

Udrath · October 25

Haki_7 wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

As long as players continue to que up in PVE gear, they’re gonna be bad lopsided matches.

@Udrath I believe it's already been formally demonstrated that most of the worst problems of two-teams BGs would remain even if ''population was infinite and matchmaking was perfect''?

I don’t disagree. Two-team battlegrounds is terrible, I’m just saying seems like most battlegrounds are graveyard stomps after the first team fight due to one team not having enough weight to hold a fight and the total lack of support for each other with heals or shields, have no staying power to body block for someone, etc. PVE builds suck in PvP and I wish PVE was more harsh so build craft took survivability more serious for each individual. I just hate seeing players get destroyed in PvP due to how different PVE functions in terms of what people prioritise in build creation. I want them to have a chance lol

Moonspawn · October 26

Arkew wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i would totally rework bg currently medal system for fell rewarding for everyone.

1: add damage blocked (who are given when ally you shield take damage).

2: remove repeatable medal who include tanking big hit / making big heal / doing big hit.

For each gamemode.

Deathmatch:

keep the actual medal about first kill / kill / multikill.

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked who reward player 100 points.

Crazy King / Domination:

now reward medal even if the flags near the player are not taken / taken by ennemy.

add new medal for killing player near a flags (not taken).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked near a flags who reward player 100 points.

Chaosball

keep medal for wearing chaosball / killing chaosball user.

maybe add medal for killing a player who damaged a chaosball wearer (ally) in last 5 sec ?

Medal now trigger when doing action near non-taken chaosball and near chaosball wearer (ally like ennemy).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near a chaosball or chaosball wearer who reward player 100 points.

Capture the Relic:

now medal are rewarded when near the relic or relic holder.

add repeatible medal (with cooldown or who give not a lot of points) for bashing a player who try to take the relic

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near the relic / relic holder who reward player 100 points.

this would encourage ppl to heal/shield ally, damage ennemy and not only keep their heal/shield only for chaosball wearer/relic holder as long they are close to them.

Another idea:

Add a special penalty for not playing near objective who reduce damage healing done by 15 % for each 12 sec (or maybe more time in 8v8 because maps are bigger) not near objective , can be cumulated 5 time for a total of 75 % dmg/ heal penalty.
(player in spawn are not affected by it,being near objective remove all penalty).

I can tell you put a lot of thought here. It's a shame we can't even get ZOS to do somehing as simple as reducing the critical healing medal.
Tell me @Arkew : As long as they didn't try to fight their way out, do you know why 4 people could almost always escape from spawn in 4v4v4, but 8 people almost never can in 8v8?

simple because in 4vs4 / 8vs8 there is only one flank for ennemy team so they can keep the other team under their eyes when in 4v4v4 even you have 2 flank instead of one so you can't keep an eye on both except by separating your team in half that would reduce greatly your chance of survive if both team get out with their 4 player, also they can be distracted by the other team.

Yes, but there is an even simpler reason:

''3. Spawncamping is encouraged by the two-sided format itself in every gamemode.''

Spawncamping in a 3-sided match meant leaving your teammates outnumbered against the third team. Doing the same thing in 2-sided gives your own team the numerical advantage.
If PvPers on both sides perceive the newfound usefulness of spawncamping, there's a decent chance they'll spend the entire match on opposite ends of the map. Not having to fight each other only makes the practice easier.
It's no longer possible to use one team against another to escape the sandwich.

@Arkew Do you notice how the orange team would be left outnumbered against purple if any of its members decide to spawncamp green?

Haki_7 · October 26

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

I may have found a new reason to adore two-teams BGs. Would you care to guess how a match this FUN managed to last for nearly the full duration?

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 108: Waiting 27 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)
https://youtu.be/nQ4OlZ8MmYY

while everyone wished for entire thing to be over as soon as possible.

And for the return of 3-sided BGs.

Moonspawn wrote: »

Doesn't explain the score though. Did people leave in droves at some point?

What happened there was far worse. Simply by staying together we somehow played the objective intermittently. Instead of splitting up, we ended up alternating between the flags and the enemy spawn. The result was the snoozefest lasting way longer than normal😢.

Arkew · October 26

Moonspawn wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i would totally rework bg currently medal system for fell rewarding for everyone.

1: add damage blocked (who are given when ally you shield take damage).

2: remove repeatable medal who include tanking big hit / making big heal / doing big hit.

For each gamemode.

Deathmatch:

keep the actual medal about first kill / kill / multikill.

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked who reward player 100 points.

Crazy King / Domination:

now reward medal even if the flags near the player are not taken / taken by ennemy.

add new medal for killing player near a flags (not taken).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked near a flags who reward player 100 points.

Chaosball

keep medal for wearing chaosball / killing chaosball user.

maybe add medal for killing a player who damaged a chaosball wearer (ally) in last 5 sec ?

Medal now trigger when doing action near non-taken chaosball and near chaosball wearer (ally like ennemy).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near a chaosball or chaosball wearer who reward player 100 points.

Capture the Relic:

now medal are rewarded when near the relic or relic holder.

add repeatible medal (with cooldown or who give not a lot of points) for bashing a player who try to take the relic

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near the relic / relic holder who reward player 100 points.

this would encourage ppl to heal/shield ally, damage ennemy and not only keep their heal/shield only for chaosball wearer/relic holder as long they are close to them.

Another idea:

Add a special penalty for not playing near objective who reduce damage healing done by 15 % for each 12 sec (or maybe more time in 8v8 because maps are bigger) not near objective , can be cumulated 5 time for a total of 75 % dmg/ heal penalty.
(player in spawn are not affected by it,being near objective remove all penalty).

I can tell you put a lot of thought here. It's a shame we can't even get ZOS to do somehing as simple as reducing the critical healing medal.
Tell me @Arkew : As long as they didn't try to fight their way out, do you know why 4 people could almost always escape from spawn in 4v4v4, but 8 people almost never can in 8v8?

simple because in 4vs4 / 8vs8 there is only one flank for ennemy team so they can keep the other team under their eyes when in 4v4v4 even you have 2 flank instead of one so you can't keep an eye on both except by separating your team in half that would reduce greatly your chance of survive if both team get out with their 4 player, also they can be distracted by the other team.

I believe there is an even simpler reason:
''3. Spawncamping is encouraged by the two-sided format itself in every gamemode.''

Spawncamping in a 3-sided match meant leaving your teammates outnumbered against the third team. Doing the same thing in 2-sided gives your own team the numerical advantage.

If PvPers on both sides perceive the newfound usefulness of spawncamping, there's a decent chance they'll spend the entire match on opposite ends of the map. Not having to fight each other only makes the practice easier.

It's no longer possible to use one team against another to escape the sandwich.

@Arkew Do you notice how the orange team would be left outnumbered against purple if any of its members decide to spawncamp green?

the better solution would be make spawn more far of each other.

Moonspawn · October 27

Arkew wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Me i would totally rework bg currently medal system for fell rewarding for everyone.

1: add damage blocked (who are given when ally you shield take damage).

2: remove repeatable medal who include tanking big hit / making big heal / doing big hit.

For each gamemode.

Deathmatch:

keep the actual medal about first kill / kill / multikill.

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked who reward player 100 points.

Crazy King / Domination:

now reward medal even if the flags near the player are not taken / taken by ennemy.

add new medal for killing player near a flags (not taken).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked near a flags who reward player 100 points.

Chaosball

keep medal for wearing chaosball / killing chaosball user.

maybe add medal for killing a player who damaged a chaosball wearer (ally) in last 5 sec ?

Medal now trigger when doing action near non-taken chaosball and near chaosball wearer (ally like ennemy).

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near a chaosball or chaosball wearer who reward player 100 points.

Capture the Relic:

now medal are rewarded when near the relic or relic holder.

add repeatible medal (with cooldown or who give not a lot of points) for bashing a player who try to take the relic

adding repeatable medal who are awarded each X dmg/heal/blocked done near the relic / relic holder who reward player 100 points.

this would encourage ppl to heal/shield ally, damage ennemy and not only keep their heal/shield only for chaosball wearer/relic holder as long they are close to them.

Another idea:

Add a special penalty for not playing near objective who reduce damage healing done by 15 % for each 12 sec (or maybe more time in 8v8 because maps are bigger) not near objective , can be cumulated 5 time for a total of 75 % dmg/ heal penalty.
(player in spawn are not affected by it,being near objective remove all penalty).

I can tell you put a lot of thought here. It's a shame we can't even get ZOS to do somehing as simple as reducing the critical healing medal.
Tell me @Arkew : As long as they didn't try to fight their way out, do you know why 4 people could almost always escape from spawn in 4v4v4, but 8 people almost never can in 8v8?

simple because in 4vs4 / 8vs8 there is only one flank for ennemy team so they can keep the other team under their eyes when in 4v4v4 even you have 2 flank instead of one so you can't keep an eye on both except by separating your team in half that would reduce greatly your chance of survive if both team get out with their 4 player, also they can be distracted by the other team.

I believe there is an even simpler reason:
''3. Spawncamping is encouraged by the two-sided format itself in every gamemode.''

Spawncamping in a 3-sided match meant leaving your teammates outnumbered against the third team. Doing the same thing in 2-sided gives your own team the numerical advantage.

If PvPers on both sides perceive the newfound usefulness of spawncamping, there's a decent chance they'll spend the entire match on opposite ends of the map. Not having to fight each other only makes the practice easier.

It's no longer possible to use one team against another to escape the sandwich.

@Arkew Do you notice how the orange team would be left outnumbered against purple if any of its members decide to spawncamp green?

the better solution would be make spawn more far of each other.

In 3-sided? I don't see how.
In two-teams BG, wouldn't increasing the distance between the spawns only make camping more useful and even easier than it already is? Second aspect of the third flaw:

''If PvPers on both sides perceive the newfound usefulness of spawncamping, there's a decent chance they'll spend the entire match on opposite ends of the map. Not having to fight each other only makes the practice easier. ''

Overamera · October 27

I wish they could add Group Duels. Perhaps a house or zone where group duels are allowed without being locked to an alliance.

Mattymoo92 · October 27

Has this thread had ANY form of acknowledgement and accountability from Zos that they are aware of people’s issues regarding BGs?
They really aren’t beating the “they hate PvPers” allegations are they

Moonspawn · October 27

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

I may have found a new reason to adore two-teams BGs. Would you care to guess how a match this FUN managed to last for nearly the full duration?

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 108: Waiting 27 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)
https://youtu.be/nQ4OlZ8MmYY

while everyone wished for entire thing to be over as soon as possible.

And for the return of 3-sided BGs.

Moonspawn wrote: »

Doesn't explain the score though. Did people leave in droves at some point?

What happened there was far worse. Simply by staying together we somehow played the objective intermittently. Instead of splitting up, we ended up alternating between the flags and the enemy spawn. The result was the snoozefest lasting way longer than normal😢.

The FUN is guaranteed whether you split up or stay together. What can I say? Whoever designed these things sure was inspired.

Haki_7 · October 27

Moonspawn wrote: »

The FUN is guaranteed whether you split up or stay together. What can I say? Whoever designed these things sure was inspired.

They really went all out:

Once again ended up extending the suffering of every single player who had the misfortune of entering the match. Mission accomplished.

Moonspawn · October 28

Haki_7 wrote: »

First match of the day: Zero % chance of winning. Team mostly talked about how they miss 3-sided Chaosball.
Second match: Zero % chance of losing.
Third match: Zero % chance of losing.
Fourth match: Zero % chance of losing. 150 of their points was because of damage sigil.

These were all in sequence. Is there anyone who still genuinely believes that the problem is matchmaking?

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 107: Waiting 31 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)
https://youtu.be/EXd8IIHQlfc

At least you got to play one of each mode. Small mercies.

Chrisilis · October 28

Mattymoo92 wrote: »

Has this thread had ANY form of acknowledgement and accountability from Zos that they are aware of people’s issues regarding BGs?
They really aren’t beating the “they hate PvPers” allegations are they

One year. Its been one year since three team battlegrounds were taken away and replaced with two team. Today is the anniversary of update 44 on PC (Nov. for console) An entire year, where someone on this forum, on one thread after another, posted almost every single day asking ZoS to please acknowledge our concerns. Our dedication. Our passion for the game. Our loyalty. Our ideas. Our disappointment. Our outrage. Our wants, needs, feelings, our demands regarding the future of Battlegrounds.

In all that time I can count on one hand the times the devs have said ****all in response and still have fingers left over. And those responses were vague, condescending and unhelpful.

Us____________________________Them

Better maps!__________________Meh.
Better balance!________________Meh.
Better MMR!_________________ _Meh.
Better rewards!________________LoL
Three team back?______________"crickets"
Three team weekends?_________Ha, no.
But you promised?_____________Ha, no we didnt.
But its literally in writing?_______And?
Future of BG's?________________Teehee.
Acknowledge we exist?_________Never!

So. Its been a year. Happy anniversary.

Moonspawn · October 29

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Healing slows things down enough for everyone to have at least an inkling of the target order. At this point it doesn't matter if the match is balanced or not, it will be terrible either way. Look what happened to Orange 1 and 8. That's the real horror of the first flaw.

Balancing a match like this (with healing and all) would mean the target order for both teams would never move beyond the first two or three players. You've played matches like that, haven't you?

I've played matches where the target order for both teams wouldn't couldn't move beyond a single player. I believe that's when I acquired the insight mentioned in the original post.

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 106: Waiting 23 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
https://youtu.be/CFYj4tpBm2A

I do look forward to the day when everyone has obtained the same insight. It's the entire reason 8v8 and 4v4 must be kept available no matter what, even after the return of 3-teams. Ideally, the names of the individuals who spent a great deal of time and effort to ensure everyone stays trapped in 2-sided should be put right next to both queue options in glowing letters, so their contribution is never forgotten.

Xarc · October 29

4x4 is 3x4 now, regularly

The countdown starts when someone is missing but everything is fine, and sometimes the 4th arrives when the match is almost over, great.

Freelancer_ESO · October 29

The new leaderboard for Battlegrounds is either resetting every day or every time they work on the server.

It reset on Monday and it reset today.

As of this posting on PC NA 32 accounts have participated in Competitive Battlegrounds since the servers came back online.

0lbertikus · October 29

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

The new leaderboard for Battlegrounds is either resetting every day or every time they work on the server.

It reset on Monday and it reset today.

Same for PC EU. Who knows whether or not it happened on purpose...

0lbertikus · October 29

PC-EU:
Additionally, the BG leaderboards are no longer capped at 100 but show all players participating in BGs (assuming they get a score > 0). At the time of writing it shows a maximum of 434. That's very interesting cause it allows us to see how many different players/accounts actually play BGs.

Haki_7 · October 30

Two standard 8v8 DM matches in a row:
1-

2-

Orange-4 and Orange-8 are the same player, likely trying Battlegrounds for the fist time. I never saw them again.

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 109: Waiting 20 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaBPQkBvYxE

radiostar · October 30

It's just exasperating having so many throwing the game with no solution. Such a waste of resources, and can't even do the battlemasters quests.

Radiate77 · October 30

Yup, can’t have balanced PvP without role-queue.

Haki_7 · 10:57AM

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yup, can’t have balanced PvP without role-queue.

@Radiate77 But wouldn't people just select the wrong roles?

Radiate77 · 3:41PM

Haki_7 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yup, can’t have balanced PvP without role-queue.

@Radiate77 But wouldn't people just select the wrong roles?

Not if roles had requirements.

ImpostorSyndrome · 4:26PM

Radiate77 wrote: »

Yup, can’t have balanced PvP without role-queue.

Roles mean nothing. Proper MMR won't work either cuz of low pop of bgs. ESO needs to mix up all the people in one kettle, without this no match will start.