The big downside of the set is that you are locked to the target you marked for 10 seconds, and hit everybody else like a wet noodle! I love that!

Having to switch targets is super important in both pvp (except duels) and pve, and I think it's a fair trade. In pvp, the clear counter is to hide behind your group members, who (against the set user) are basically meat shields.

I love this version of the set!

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Huntsman's Warmask - good change, but 20% is a bit too much. Compare that to Malacath's 16%, which comes with a major downside reducing its damage output. Warmask's downside is very minor by comparison. Looking at PvP, as it stands, this mythic is now more powerful than Monomyth (+20% damage > +20% crit damage). It's very easy to apply, has a short cooldown and a long duration with the only downside being that it can be cleansed (which is only relevant against builds that have a cleanse in the first place).

As it stands I think Malacath could probably use a buff up to 20% (the reason Malacath was nerfed down to 16% was because proc sets had high damage and couldn't crit anyway. Now many of them deal lower damage but can crit, which made Malacath weaker, so there is room to buff it).
For Warmask, either increase the cooldown or lower the bonus to 15%, which would bring it more in line with Velothi in PvE too.

Monomyth has no realistic downside and crit damage is addative, not multiplicative, meaning if you were in a scenario where you could crit 100% of the time, 20% Major force would provide a bigger boost than 20% Huntsman.

Have to chime in here, that's true but also false.

Crit damage is additive with itself, which means that it gives you less of a percentage damage boost the more you stack it.

Here's a scenario: let's say you have a 10 000 tooltip on an ability and you increase your critical damage from 100% to 110%. Your critical strike will now deal 21 000 damage rather than 20 000 - this is an increase of 5%.

Meanwhile if you just increase your base tooltip from 10 000 to 11 000 with a 10% damage done modifier (assuming you have no other ones, these are also additive with each other) you are going to crit for 22 000 - an increase of 10%.

Basically the more you stack one thing, the less efficient it is and all the different modifiers are essentially multiplicative with each other but additive with themselves (base tooltip, %dmg done, penetration, crit dmg, %dmg taken).


...so you'd have to have some crazy numbers of %dmg done modifiers in order for Major Force to be stronger than a 20% damage done buff. This is theoretically possible with things like off balance & heavy attack etc, but very unlikely to ever happen in a practical scenario.

Decimus wrote: »

On the topic of the new mythic... it's cool to see it be viable, but perhaps it's a little bit too strong for single target now that its proc condition has been made infinitely easier?

Previously the "fully charged heavy attack" part kind of reined in the power of the set since doing a fully charged heavy attack does result in a DPS loss typically and aren't without counterplay in PvP... but bash is another thing entirely and very easy to perform in any type of content.


Personally I'd rather see the set be more difficult to proc and encourage different types of gameplay than be just the next evolution of the power creep (for single target fights & most PvP builds).

OR just give it Damage Done To Monsters and call it a day, heh.

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Not sure how I feel about 20% damage that can proc off of bash. I'll wait for parses but that seems like it would be insane at the high-end where players can reliably bash weave to keep the effect up without any DPS loss.

It's a 60s duration and they went to the effort of adding bash as an additional proc condition knowing full well it doesn't effect your pve dps, I'm pretty sure they're not concerned about it being easy to keep up seeing as it has the hefty -50% cleave on top.

Also, if it does have the intended effect of a 10s cooldown @Freelancer_ESO found, then this would prevent players from cycling the debuff to high priority targets every GCD, if they pick a target they kinda have to stick with it for a minimum amount of time. Plus, if the effect is cleansed, you miss out on a solid chunk of time before you can apply it again.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Huntsman's Warmask - good change, but 20% is a bit too much. Compare that to Malacath's 16%, which comes with a major downside reducing its damage output. Warmask's downside is very minor by comparison. Looking at PvP, as it stands, this mythic is now more powerful than Monomyth (+20% damage > +20% crit damage). It's very easy to apply, has a short cooldown and a long duration with the only downside being that it can be cleansed (which is only relevant against builds that have a cleanse in the first place).

As it stands I think Malacath could probably use a buff up to 20% (the reason Malacath was nerfed down to 16% was because proc sets had high damage and couldn't crit anyway. Now many of them deal lower damage but can crit, which made Malacath weaker, so there is room to buff it).
For Warmask, either increase the cooldown or lower the bonus to 15%, which would bring it more in line with Velothi in PvE too.

Monomyth has no realistic downside and crit damage is addative, not multiplicative, meaning if you were in a scenario where you could crit 100% of the time, 20% Major force would provide a bigger boost than 20% Huntsman. This is ignoring the fact that Huntsman reduces your damage to all other targets by -50% and Monomyth gives Minor Berserk, Major Protection, and Minor Vitality. The "downsides" of the mythic are just as negligble as the -50% depending on your playstyle and perspective. So in this comparison, I'd still say Mono is stronger.

Velothi is not a general multiplier, it's "damage done to monsters" which is an entirely seperate bucket, aka, it doesn't have the same deminishing returns so the 15% you see is actually closer to 20% or above if it was a general all purpose multiplier. It also nerfs your light attack (single target) damage to 1%. This in effect has created 2 mythics with distinct playstyle purposes of 1v1 vs cleave, I hope pve dps parses prove this or else the mythic is useless.

Malacath is just bad, it's been bad and should be buffed as you described a bit. I wouldn't call for nerfs over something that hasn't even been properly tested yet.

Plus, even from pvp perspective, I'd rather die to someone with a +20% single target -50% cleave buff, then someone with a proc set which is what this set directly has to compete with. A Werewolf for instance would have trouble taking this set and a monster set at the same time, would I prefer to die to Selenes or this? This every time.

Frankly, I think in all examples given, the playstyle differences are distinct and interesting, none of them really need nerfs. Malacath needs a minor buff, and Mono needs an added negative for both bars since Minor Vuln and Minor Timity are easy to ignore, the pro's outweigh the con's a bit too much there.

@MashmalloMan Your assessment is correct, but I was mostly talking about PvP, especially while comparing it to Monomyth. In PvP you don't have 100% crit chance and sources of Minor Berserk are plenty. The damage reduction to other targets is quite negligible in PvP as well, because for most builds you are going to primarily deal damage to one target at a time, focus that down, then switch to the next target. Obviously for 1vX Northern Storm Wardens or for bombing, this doesn't apply.
I think at 20% Warmask is far stronger than Monomyth on most builds, provided you aren't fighting a build with a lot of cleanses (which to be fair are quite common). But that just reinforces that running forms of cleanse becomes more mandatory, making the strong builds even stronger.

It's a fair point that in PvP the set competes with monster sets, so perhaps I didn't factor that in enough, but I also don't think that it competes with proc sets much either, especially because this buff should multiply proc damage the same way Malacath does. I'd expect people to run proc sets on body and/or weapons with this, for example a Bash Build, scaling off resistance, with Deadlands Demolisher and getting that extra 20% on top with no extra effort involved to apply the buff. That could be quite strong and annoying to fight.

While talking about Velothi, I was talking about PvE, since you correctly noted that it's "damage done to monsters". From a pure PvE perspective, I wouldn't want to see Warmask nerfed either, so if ZOS decides to change it to 15% damage done, and an extra 5% damage done to monsters (or something along those lines) that would be fine with me. Making all of it only apply to monsters is overkill in my opinion. I like it when my mythic stays relevant in both PvE and PvP, like Oakensoul, so the PvPers can run pledges and daily randoms without needing to swap builds.

I'll concede that 60s duration is way too long for pvp, cleanses are plentiful with subclassing, but not every player wants to take Animal Companions or Restoring Light. However, it's just a debuff from that 1 player, it's not like it's increasing all your damage taken or done. If it lingers for that long you're either 1v1ing them anyway where they can easily reapply it or that player can't get in bash range to move it to another target, thereby nerfing everything they do until they can.

My point about the 100% crit chance comparison wasn't that you need that much, it's that the 20% value is stronger than it really appears because crit damage is addative instead of multiplicative. Although, you can pretty easily stack to 60% crit chance or above right now, and there are many skills and sets to gurantee crits.

My main point was Monomyth is not just a damage set, it has the unique opportunity of giving a huge defensive bonus when you need it most on back bar, Warmask does nothing defensively. In fact it actually hurts your defense because you're not just trading out Major Protection and Minor Vitality, you're losing pressure on secondary targets by not having Major Force and the -50% debuff, giving them more opportunities to pressure you... which I suppose is the point. It's a glass cannon type of item, so it should be powerful, not equal imo to something like Mono.

I'll wait for testing, but to me 20% seems fair for what you trade in both pve and pvp. It's probably really good on a NB ganker, but honestly if they get like 5% more damage on me by swapping from Mono, at least they're 10-15% easier to kill without Mono's Protection/Vitality.

I'm down for a 15/5 split with damage done to monsters if necessary, but ZOS rarely seems to understand how to balance those 2 things at the same time when implementing it this way. Look no further than the abomination that is Beacon of Oblivion.

Warmask change looks (at least, on paper) excellent.

The change makes this viable in normal builds, instead of yet-another-useless-heavy-attack-item. In the 8% version, it would be lacking behind Rakkhart so it would have been a set you get only to fill your sticker book.

But 20% damage buff? And can be procced with a bash? And lasts for 60 seconds? That rivals Velothi. If penetration is enough, and players use Trap anyway so Force is not an issue, this -- at least, on paper -- is better than Velothi on ST encounters.

This seems pretty awesome. Higher damage buff than Velothi, but with a tradeoff of less damage to ads. So it doesn't replace Velothi, but can be situationally better.

Kudos.

Side note: I see some people mention PVP issues with this, so I hope if any changes are needed because of PVP they use the Battle Spirit instead of changing the entire set for PVE as well.

Glad new set got love,hope one day we not see more dead set add in game and never use
and hope next week you can give other new patch joke set some really love

Can’t believe zos got baited by casuals to make this mythic actually a 20% damage increase

Thanks for buffing Huntsman's Warmask and for making it proc off bashes too. I've only seen a couple of CMX reports with it thus far, but it looks like it'll be the best Mythic for single target damage now. I'll echo what others have said - if turns out to be too strong in PvP, please use Battle Spirit or something to decrease the damage bonus specifically for PvP.

It would also be great if other niche sets with numbers that are far too safe, such as the recent Xanmeer Spellweaver set, would be buffed a bit in the future too (in my humble opinion).