Feedback on Huntsman's Warmask Mythic

IncultaWolf · September 16

I'll start off by saying the visual proc for this mythic is awesome but I felt like it was a bit too weak compared to other mythic sets currently available. The resource restore seems odd on a set where you're already heavy attacking to proc it so you shouldn't be having sustain issues from doing heavies in your combat rotation. I'd love to see player werewolves given a mythic to compete more in dungeons/trials, and this could be an opportunity by making the 8% buff 14% while transformed as it would make Huntsman's Warmask a viable option over other mythics like oakensoul and velothi for dps.

Changing the resource restore to a lower value but making it restore both stamina and magicka on kill would make this a lot more enticing as well. We already have one heavy attack mythic that only restores one or the other (Rakkhat's Voidmantle) To balance out the potential buff to the damage increase above 8% while transformed, I think battlespirit should be applied like what was done to the Beacon of Oblivion set.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Major_Mangle · September 16

8% is a laughable value for a mythic like this. It needs to be in the 15-20% range to even be considered in my opinion.

Renato90085 · September 16

Wait
All Pve Dps mythic can give we 10-16% buff(10%usually a few useless
PvP have many better mythic can choose
8% in single Target is joke
and it looked want give werewolf and ha,the 2 weakest play style,you are Serious？

huskandhunger · September 16

The current value of 8% damage to my perspective is not much better than minor berserk's 5%. If we combine Minor Berserk 5% (say Slimecraw) with Malacath's 16% I could just wear those to get to 21% leaving the Huntsman mythic in the dust---it definitely comes across as weak and needs some kind of a differentiator or stronger concept to make it stand out from the pack of other mythic items.

MincMincMinc · September 16

A more interesting dynamic would be to place the mark on a target.
You deal x% to that target, but the target also deals x% to you
you also deal -x% to all other targets, but all other targets deal -x% to you

So basically placing the mark on the target puts you into more of a 1v1 environment between you and the target which is fitting in terms of "the hunt" theme. So you do not hurt or get hurt by outside enemies as much. The X value could then be changed up to 10 to 15%. I would add a heal to the kill bonus to help reset the fight and enter into the next hunt.

dark_hunterxmg · September 16

8% damage is pretty weak compared to what is already available. This would need to be increased by quite a bit to be worth using.
Additionally why are we being given more and more and more heavy attack sets when the heavy attack bug hasn't been fixed? This set is extra useless because of that.

valenwood_vegan · September 16

Yeah I saw this and my first thought was "what is this for and why would anyone use it?" I think it could use another look and a buff or a different secondary effect.

The issue seems to be a common one with some of these newer sets, where a potentially interesting idea is dead on arrival because it's released far too weak.

What immediately also popped into my head as a similar recent example is Xanmeer Spellweaver; also potentially interesting, also far too weak.

ZoS needs to remember that there is an opportunity cost for slotting new gear - players are giving up something else they could put in that slot. Even more-so when we're talking about a mythic.

I just don't get the philosophy here. What is the point of continuing to release sets that no one is ever going to use? I mean I get not wanting to make a new set power-creep us even *more*, but why bother if it's going to be objectively worse than existing options?

Decimus · September 16

16%, no cooldown & restore both resources and this mythic is worth considering in PvP atleast (where having to do heavy attacks is expected and not just a damage loss)... as it stands it's just another completely useless mythic in a long list of useless mythics.

Tested vs Sea-Serpent's & Saint and Seducer... every single one of those provides substantially more damage (without single target limitation) than this mythic. Needless to say you can add Monomyth to that list as well of course.

Edit: forgot to mention, it's also cleansable.

JaxontheUnfortunate · September 18

Yeah I agree visually the proc is well done, however performance wise it’s mediocre at best

HackTheMinotaur · September 18

We already have a heavy attack mythic in Rakkhat's Voidmantle. If you're going to continue experimenting with Heavy Attack sets and mythics, do something that actually improves the playstyle. Give us splash damage on weapons other than Lightning Staff and 2h.

Avran_Sylt · September 18

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

We already have a heavy attack mythic in Rakkhat's Voidmantle. If you're going to continue experimenting with Heavy Attack sets and mythics, do something that actually improves the playstyle. Give us splash damage on weapons other than Lightning Staff and 2h.

I don't think this Mythic is a HA mythic, it just uses HA's as a trigger.

Lykeion · September 18

This mythic has interesting visuals and effects, but its stats are definitely below the standard level. I find it hard to see it being competitive in any scenario. As a damage-focused mythic, the 8% damage increase (with the 4% damage reduction against non-targets) feels far too conservative—well below Veloth’s performance in PvE, and PvP players likely won’t ever pick it over Monomyth. This mythic either needs a redesign or a bold buff to its numbers.

Vaqual · September 18

I think the recent power creep has just done a lot to ruin some perspectives, when basically major vuln on demand for 1 slot isn't good enough anymore.

Erickson9610 · September 18

It's especially bad because you can't run a 2 piece monster set due to it taking up the helmet slot. At least Gaze of Sithis has a genuine use case despite its downsides.

i11ionward · 12:09PM

Overall, I like that ZOS is at least trying to bring some life back into heavy attacks. These days, a lot of builds (not especifically designed around heavy attacks) in both PvE and PvP can completely ignore them. But this mythic feels like a very unsuccessful attempt to adjust heavy attacks. Who is this mythic even for?

Existing heavy attack builds will still stick to much stronger options like Anthelmir's Construct, Oakensoul Ring, or Rakkhat's Voidmantle.

For standard PvE builds, there are simply better mythics to choose from. On top of that, the damage effect from Huntsman’s Warmask is not worth spending 1–2 GCDs on a heavy attack. And against bosses, the resource restore part basically won’t even work. Spending GCDs on a heavy attack just to buff your damage against a single trash mob, and then get a bit of resources back after it dies, feels absurd.

In PvP this set could find a niche, but only if its damage potential was at least comparable to Monomyth Reforged, and ideally with an additional effect to compensate for the fact that you need to commit time to a heavy attack – which might not even land on a dodging player.

My suggestions:

Increase the damage bonus to 15–20%, even if it comes at the cost of reducing damage against other targets by 15–20%.

Replace the resource restore with something more interesting and impactful.

For example, you could add a mechanic like:
“Dealing damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attack places the Mark of Hircine on your target for 20 seconds, this heavy attack cannot be dodged or blocked.”

MincMincMinc · 12:36PM

Vaqual wrote: »

I think the recent power creep has just done a lot to ruin some perspectives, when basically major vuln on demand for 1 slot isn't good enough anymore.

If it doesnt do massive 20m aoe dot/hot procs that apply bonuses and status effects guaranteed every 1s for free I don't want it. The game is boring without 5 paragraph MLA format tooltip effects on everything.

How else am I supposed to lag the game so I can complain about it later?

Major_Mangle · 1:06PM

Vaqual wrote: »

I think the recent power creep has just done a lot to ruin some perspectives, when basically major vuln on demand for 1 slot isn't good enough anymore.

This mythic would´ve been bad in 2015-2016 as well (assuming mythics would´ve been a thing back then), so got nothing really to do with "ruined perspectives". Why would I ever use this mythic over other alternatives such as Monomyth, Saint and Seducer, Sea Serpent, Malacath, Velothi (PvE). Even basic status effects like concussion is gonna give me almost similar damage increase. The sustain you get is whatever and funny enough you´d be better of running a set like Vengeance leech (with 0 cooldown on the resource return on kill) if you want that kind of theme on your build (not saying it´s a good set, just saying you could)......

Vaqual · 2:51PM

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I think the recent power creep has just done a lot to ruin some perspectives, when basically major vuln on demand for 1 slot isn't good enough anymore.

This mythic would´ve been bad in 2015-2016 as well (assuming mythics would´ve been a thing back then), so got nothing really to do with "ruined perspectives". Why would I ever use this mythic over other alternatives such as Monomyth, Saint and Seducer, Sea Serpent, Malacath, Velothi (PvE). Even basic status effects like concussion is gonna give me almost similar damage increase. The sustain you get is whatever and funny enough you´d be better of running a set like Vengeance leech (with 0 cooldown on the resource return on kill) if you want that kind of theme on your build (not saying it´s a good set, just saying you could)......

It is a non-named effect that stacks with all the stuff Monomyth, Sea Serpent etc. can provide, if you have a way of sourcing them. It is a matter of use case and opportunity cost for sure, but your point barely stands, and it does so only because the items you listed were all completely meta shattering when they released... (which was my point and I thank you for proving it).
I personally don't need every next mythic to keep piling on layers and layers of power creep.

Lykeion · 2:57PM

Vaqual wrote: »

I think the recent power creep has just done a lot to ruin some perspectives, when basically major vuln on demand for 1 slot isn't good enough anymore.

Here's a simple way to understand how bad this mythic item is: After ZOS last rebalanced the heavy attack durations for various weapons, it now generally takes about 2.5s to complete a heavy attack. This mythic's buff lasts for 20s, meaning you'd spend approximately 12% of your time only to maintain an 8% damage increase. To put it more bluntly, its expected damage gain for you is negative (and that's not even mentioning its damage reduction against non-targets).

The only scenario I can imagine where it would actually increase damage is in PvP, using a stealth HA to start a gank and ending the fight in a very short time, allowing it to provide a positive benefit. But if I can perform a stealth HA, why would I use this mythic item, which offers a low bonus and occupies my head slot? Not to mention Monomyth, even Maarselok would perform better than this.

Vaqual · 3:02PM

Lykeion wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I think the recent power creep has just done a lot to ruin some perspectives, when basically major vuln on demand for 1 slot isn't good enough anymore.

Here's a simple way to understand how bad this mythic item is: After ZOS last rebalanced the heavy attack durations for various weapons, it now generally takes about 2.5s to complete a heavy attack. This mythic's buff lasts for 20s, meaning you'd spend approximately 12% of your time only to maintain an 8% damage increase. To put it more bluntly, its expected damage gain for you is negative (and that's not even mentioning its damage reduction against non-targets).

The only scenario I can imagine where it would actually increase damage is in PvP, using a stealth HA to start a gank and ending the fight in a very short time, allowing it to provide a positive benefit. But if I can perform a stealth HA, why would I use this mythic item, which offers a low bonus and occupies my head slot? Not to mention Monomyth, even Maarselok would perform better than this.

So the mythic ends up being probably most potent in PvP, with possibly dangerous scaling potential in groups - what is the issue then? Do you not have enough PvE mythics? I don't think an item needs to be buffed to satisfy all possible clienteles if that comes at the cost of overbuffing a use case. And as I said above, comparing it to the most busted items that have been released is really nothing but an exercise in futility. Everytime they release >profanity placeholder< like Saints & Seducers or Monomyth I just cringe, because I know this stuff isn't going away anymore and it just gets worse from there.

dark_hunterxmg · 4:03PM

i11ionward wrote: »

Overall, I like that ZOS is at least trying to bring some life back into heavy attacks. These days, a lot of builds (not especifically designed around heavy attacks) in both PvE and PvP can completely ignore them. But this mythic feels like a very unsuccessful attempt to adjust heavy attacks. Who is this mythic even for?

I don't think they are trying to breathe life back into heavy attacks. If they were they would have focused on fixing the bug that prevents their reliable use. Every patch for the last year has had new heavy attack sets, but no fix for the bug.

Even if this mythic was a 20% increase in damage, I am not certain that I would use it based on the heavy attack requirement alone. I've seen the damage from Malacath's 16% and it isn't worth it. Additionally, I see no reason why someone would give up any other mythic that still allows the use of a monster set in order to run this thing.