The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
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metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Maybe he got a visit from a traveling daedric bargainer. Or maybe he was daedric in part one, but just didn't appear that way for reasons beyond our understanding.
What we know is that he wasn't daedric from the beginning; he fathered at least 2 children, after all. But I really can't find any lore source about how and why he became daedra now. It's interesting since this doesn't seem to be a common thing - a mortal becoming a daedra somehow. I don't think some kind of pact would usually be sufficient for that.
This seems like one of those parts of world-building and lore that exists within the game but doesn't get a full explanation unless they decide to feature it as part of a story at some point. Deep background lore.Considering the size of the average Xanmeer, how many do you think ancient Argonians would have built in an area that is the size of eastern Solstice? I suppose if we go by Shadowfen and Murkmire, there would be several.
We have seen settlements that consisted of only a few relatively small pyramids, and then we had huge things like the Tainted Leel now. I'd rather have espected several smaller settlements strewn about what I expected to be a jungle, so there would be several seperate quest locations.
The need for quest locations does rather drive things, doesn't it. I was pondering what might make sense from a civilization perspective rather than just a game play one.That also brings up the question of how large this island is meant to be (or any zone, really).
I told you I measured it and the West was 3,2 km according to the new compass thing, and the East looks about the same size, so the whole island has a diameter of about 6,5 km which is almost 4 times the size of Telvanni Peninsula or about a third of the whole continent of Tamriel (which is especially interesting for a tiny hidden island no one knew exists)
The only conclusion we can draw from this is that the distances in ESO are completely messed up.
That goes for town or city sizes as well. There are rarely enough buildings presents that would be able to house all the people we see.
I remember the measuring work you undertook, and how the distances seemed to not make much sense. I had rather know the conceptual size places are meant to be when they aren't limited by the need for players to be able to quickly traverse them. Is the island of Solstice meant to represent a place equivalent to, for example, the size of Ireland. But perhaps searching for such equivalents is foolish, because it's just a map in a game after all.It does seem odd that no books or letters or even just conversation with npcs mentioned those structures. Yet it's not quite believable the Worm Cult could have built all of that in such a short amount of time. Or, if the cult had been there longer, why no one seemed to notice.
Maybe they are indeed supposed to have been built by the Cult recently. How it's possible? "A wizard did it."
So far it leaves the impression the Worm Cult is the most powerful faction of Tamriel - they can build huge fortresses in just 5 or 6 months and they can randomly teleport sarcophaguses through different dimensions, including places where teleportation magic is impossible
If I hadn't joined them yet, this would make me want to!
Lol, well remember the drawbacks, though! Any cult member is little better than fodder for Mannimarco's ultimate plans. Don't end up like Wormblood, who got to enjoy all that power for such a short time.It would be nice if we could find in the world some of these npcs whose private correspondence we're always reading, like in that note you linked.
It would. And even better in this case, if the game would let us have an extra dialogue option with this npc if we've read the note before. Even if it's something as simple as "I found your note, glad you arrived safely." It might not belong to any quest and it doesn't have to, but in terms of roleplaying and immersion, it would be nice.
That would be really nice. I like small touches like that.When I think back over western Solstice and the quests and lore we discovered, I think the only place that was haunted was Corelanya Manor, and it was also the only place where a curse was in existence, but it was only a curse for anyone of Corelanya descent. So why does the island have such a reputation? It can't all be down to lying sailors and their tales, can it?
I mean, maybe the East was a bit eerier, even before the Worm Cult arrived? Hard to say now since we don't know how it looked before. Generally, there's a big difference in the lore we got about Solstice and what we actually saw so far - I have not encountered such a divergence in any earlier zone. Which leads to lots of questions, of course.
It's possible all the really eerie happenings were on the east side of the island. Maybe the storms and currents that surround the place tend to move ships to that side, so everyone who had a bad experience with the island was on the east. Yet no one who lives on Solstice spoke much about the east side unless to mention the wall. It's really a bit disappointing that there was very little npc gossip or dialogue about the east side.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, what I wanted to add concerning that news article I linked - even if it might not be up to date, it touches on design decisions including the writing, after all, so it might be worth a general discussion (and of course, as always, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'd like to contribute my view on it nonetheless):
I agree that there are aspects about TES3 Morrowind that would not work too well anymore today. Searching for places could be unnecessarily time-consuming and complicated, especially when descriptions like "walk North to that hut, then East to the big rock, then North to the lake and then West to whatever" were sometimes very unprecise. So for that the idea that we got a map (which could be explained through the story) and npcs mark locations for us, like we see it in ESO, is an improvement and makes sense. I'm not generally against map markers, but where it doesn't make sense for me is if searching for items in a room is part of the current quest or of a "puzzle". Because if searching a thing is the whole task and it's simplified by the map marker pointing at the item we should find - that's basically the equivalent to automatically doing a boss fight for us, because in the end, it's like playing the game for us.
Same goes for many "puzzles" we've seen in the later years of ESO which you could still solve while asleep, since the only thing you need to do is clicking a thing repeatedly until some npc yells you've solved it (you can't even click it more often, it will basically stop when it's correct, unable to move the item any further - of course I tried out of curiosity). That's not a puzzle. You can't even try to solve it on your own because upon clicking it several times it will tell you that you're correct. Now, why include such "puzzles" anyway, then? I do understand that some players might not enjoy this game activity at all, or some puzzles might get too complicated for some people, but I just don't think simplifying them so much that they basically lose their meaning is a good solution to this. I'd rather see real puzzles with a button to optionally skip them. So people who don't enjoy them, or don't find the solution and already annoyed after trying for a whole while, can hit "skip", while people who find them fun can try solving them.
Now, when it comes to the topic of time... I don't disagree with the idea of wanting to cater to different types of players and to also provide content for people who might only have 20 minutes of time. And I think that's achiveable by offering different types of game activities, including some that don't take long. A single duel or a tavern game match of some kind might be a thing that's feasible for that amount of time. But I don't think designing everything so people with just 20 minutes of time can easily play it is a good decision. Since the focus of this thread is the writing: Stories just take their time to develop. You can't tell a complex, epic story within just a few minutes. And with novels, movies or plays, no one would get that idea, right? You wouldn't shorten a 2-hour play to 10 minutes just because people who only have 10 minutes might want to see it, too. You don't shorten a Hemingway novel (or one by Tolstoi or Dumas, doesn't matter) consisting of several hundred pages, to only 10 pages because some people might not enjoy reading more than 10 pages. So why would all the quest design in ESO need to be written so that even someone with only a few minutes can play it? It might sound a little blunt, but if a story takes an hour, I need to either organize an hour of free time if I want to play it (just like with every other hobby, really; I also can't go hiking, climbing or playing soccer for just 10 minutes, either - I need to have enough spare time or find a way to schedule my stuff accordingly), or if I can't get the needed time, well, then I can't partake in this activity (and yes, I know it's sad, I had to limit or even give up some of my hobbies myself when I went from university studies to working full-time in my first job, due to less freetime; but that's how life is).
Now, from my point of view, ESO's quest system isn't even so "strict" in this regard - I can stop and log off at almost every situation and it won't reset the quest (there are some situations where it will set you back a bit, like back to a dungeon entrance, but it's usually not much; it's not like you'd need to repeat a huge part of the story or so). So, if you don't have an hour of time but only 20 minutes, the quest could still be designed for an hour or more of playtime - you can pause at any point of the story anyway. And while playing a whole quest without interruptions is still the best experience in terms of atmosphere and immersion, from my point of view, stopping a few times inbetween, if you just don't have enough time, well, that's a compromise one would need to accept, no? Give people optional dialogue bits so it's easier to remember where they last stopped, fine, but I don't see the need to design only short quests just because some people might not have enough time for longer quests. Especially if it leads to the design being superficial or bland in terms of lore, or if it causes implausibilities (think of the emotional chaos in the Solstice prologue - that was exactly such a situation where a longer timespan would have been needed to make things make sense).
I'm wondering: Do people even expect to be able to play an immersive epic story within just 20 minutes? Because I, personally, am aware that this can't function, so I wouldn't ever demand or expect that. Same goes for "playing something on the side" - does someone who plays a game "on the side" (while doing whatever) even care for a good story? Is this the situation for which a story should be written: To click through it while watching tv, listening to music, having a phone call or whatever? It might be that people are doing this. But I personally don't think that stories should be written with people not paying attention as the target audience. Because then the result can't be satisfying for people who do.
I never found TES 3 Morrowind to be designed only for hardcore gamers, by the way. It was, well, for average gamers. I still play Morrowind today and while I don't have as much time anymore than I had when I was 15 (that was when the game released in summer 2002), it's still playable for me now. Back then I might have played the whole afternoon and evening after school, now I might only have an hour sometimes, but it still works. If I have only an hour, then I might only do 1 quest, fine. It takes me more days to progress through the story, but does that matter? In case of ESO it wouldn't even be that bad, especially considering that it's usually at least half a year between two stories releases (the way it had been until now, at least). I don't even play that much per day, but still, I've usually finished the new story content within about 2 weeks, maybe 3 with some extra exploration. That's always a long waiting time until the next story is released.
Now the last question, since that terms especially caught my attention: Do players really expect "hand-holding"? In an open world game, I don't expect it. The opposite, I want to be able to explore, so too much hand-holding rather annoys me.This seems like one of those parts of world-building and lore that exists within the game but doesn't get a full explanation unless they decide to feature it as part of a story at some point. Deep background lore.
I don't think we'll ever come across the Rilis family again, so this case will probably remain a mystery. Unless they might generally do something about how people could be daedrafied, but that would also not clearly explain this specific case. It's a bit of a pity.The need for quest locations does rather drive things, doesn't it. I was pondering what might make sense from a civilization perspective rather than just a game play one.
Well, that depends. How many Argonians would even live in one average-sized pyramid? What kinds and how many non-residential buildings would they have? Could we take real-world South and Middle American pyramids as an example (although most of them were not inhabited, and the few that were were palaces, so not exactly representative for the average dwelling)?I remember the measuring work you undertook, and how the distances seemed to not make much sense. I had rather know the conceptual size places are meant to be when they aren't limited by the need for players to be able to quickly traverse them. Is the island of Solstice meant to represent a place equivalent to, for example, the size of Ireland. But perhaps searching for such equivalents is foolish, because it's just a map in a game after all.
In case of Tamriel, I think the most interesting aspect is that it has different climate zones. Not sure what the necessary size for that phenomenon would be? I know it depends on the size of the whole planet, but I'm no expert on that.
Now, I personally imagine Solstice as rather small, considering the claim that it was rather hidden, unknown and not found on most maps. Also, it has only few settlements. Ireland on the other hand has 32 counties and all of them have several settlements; those would never fit on Solstice. Solstice seems to be more the size of your average Dutch vacation island in the North SeaLol, well remember the drawbacks, though! Any cult member is little better than fodder for Mannimarco's ultimate plans. Don't end up like Wormblood, who got to enjoy all that power for such a short time.
I have no plan in interfering with his plans. I just want to recycle my dead servants in peace without anyone scolding me for it.That would be really nice. I like small touches like that.
Maybe we'll see something like that one day. The announcements they made for the quest content of Part 2 show care for roleplaying and immersion aspects, after all.It's possible all the really eerie happenings were on the east side of the island. Maybe the storms and currents that surround the place tend to move ships to that side, so everyone who had a bad experience with the island was on the east. Yet no one who lives on Solstice spoke much about the east side unless to mention the wall. It's really a bit disappointing that there was very little npc gossip or dialogue about the east side.
Most people there seemed strangely indifferent about most things safe for maybe their own tiny village.
Edited by Syldras on September 14, 2025 2:31AM@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭So, what I wanted to add concerning that news article I linked - even if it might not be up to date, it touches on design decisions including the writing, after all, so it might be worth a general discussion (and of course, as always, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'd like to contribute my view on it nonetheless):
I agree that there are aspects about TES3 Morrowind that would not work too well anymore today. Searching for places could be unnecessarily time-consuming and complicated, especially when descriptions like "walk North to that hut, then East to the big rock, then North to the lake and then West to whatever" were sometimes very unprecise. So for that the idea that we got a map (which could be explained through the story) and npcs mark locations for us, like we see it in ESO, is an improvement and makes sense. I'm not generally against map markers, but where it doesn't make sense for me is if searching for items in a room is part of the current quest or of a "puzzle". Because if searching a thing is the whole task and it's simplified by the map marker pointing at the item we should find - that's basically the equivalent to automatically doing a boss fight for us, because in the end, it's like playing the game for us.
I'm a big fan of map markers for the overland map because I get lost quite often. My poor sense of direction in life hampers me in game, too. But, like you, when in an interior location, when I'm meant to be searching for a clue, having a big arrow pointing to the object I'm supposed to find is unnecessary. Let me play detective!Same goes for many "puzzles" we've seen in the later years of ESO which you could still solve while asleep, since the only thing you need to do is clicking a thing repeatedly until some npc yells you've solved it (you can't even click it more often, it will basically stop when it's correct, unable to move the item any further - of course I tried out of curiosity). That's not a puzzle. You can't even try to solve it on your own because upon clicking it several times it will tell you that you're correct. Now, why include such "puzzles" anyway, then? I do understand that some players might not enjoy this game activity at all, or some puzzles might get too complicated for some people, but I just don't think simplifying them so much that they basically lose their meaning is a good solution to this. I'd rather see real puzzles with a button to optionally skip them. So people who don't enjoy them, or don't find the solution and already annoyed after trying for a whole while, can hit "skip", while people who find them fun can try solving them.
Generally I enjoy puzzles in rpgs, and in the earlier days of ESO there were puzzles the player had to solve. They were fairly simple, but still required a modicum of attention to detail. There was one puzzle, though, that I could never figure out, because I couldn't understand what I was supposed to be seeing when it was 'correct'--and that's an alignment puzzle in Wrothgar, some dwemer device underground, where you have to rotate three rings until they're lined up properly. There was something about the angle of the device in relation to where the character was standing that made it impossible for me to see when the rings were lined up correctly. I would have loved a "skip" button for that puzzle. Instead I cheated and looked up the proper solution online.
I think, in West Weald, there were a couple of puzzles with the Narsis Dren quest line that required us to do the actual work for solving (because, you know, Narsis Dren is highly unlikely to be able to tell us the solution). So they haven't given up completely on the notion. I think the puzzle objective might have been a victim of the time objective also mentioned--the idea that people don't want to use their precious gaming time for puzzles, that it slows down the pace too much.
As far as the time issue goes, I pretty much agree with what you said.Now the last question, since that terms especially caught my attention: Do players really expect "hand-holding"? In an open world game, I don't expect it. The opposite, I want to be able to explore, so too much hand-holding rather annoys me.
I think the amount of assistance people want varies for the individual. I have been frustrated in games before where the objective wasn't clear, or I got to where I thought the objective was, but either I was wrong, or I had missed some in-game trigger to advance the quest. (LotRO has this sometimes, where the spot on the landscape that triggers the quest to move forward is so specific, you can be in the general correct area, but still miss crossing the exact spot, and then end up just running around the area, looking for the exact coordinates.) But, again, I don't necessarily want an arrow pointing to the one and only correct objective.The need for quest locations does rather drive things, doesn't it. I was pondering what might make sense from a civilization perspective rather than just a game play one.
Well, that depends. How many Argonians would even live in one average-sized pyramid? What kinds and how many non-residential buildings would they have? Could we take real-world South and Middle American pyramids as an example (although most of them were not inhabited, and the few that were were palaces, so not exactly representative for the average dwelling)?
Every Xanmeer I've been inside in this game didn't seem designed for living; seemed more ritual focused than anything else. And trap-based. Of course, these were all those that were given up by Argonians (maybe the reason they gave them up was because they weren't a very comfortable dwelling ). I'll be interested to see what the inside of a Xanmeer is like when the Argonians are still actively living in them.I remember the measuring work you undertook, and how the distances seemed to not make much sense. I had rather know the conceptual size places are meant to be when they aren't limited by the need for players to be able to quickly traverse them. Is the island of Solstice meant to represent a place equivalent to, for example, the size of Ireland. But perhaps searching for such equivalents is foolish, because it's just a map in a game after all.
In case of Tamriel, I think the most interesting aspect is that it has different climate zones. Not sure what the necessary size for that phenomenon would be? I know it depends on the size of the whole planet, but I'm no expert on that.
Now, I personally imagine Solstice as rather small, considering the claim that it was rather hidden, unknown and not found on most maps. Also, it has only few settlements. Ireland on the other hand has 32 counties and all of them have several settlements; those would never fit on Solstice. Solstice seems to be more the size of your average Dutch vacation island in the North Sea
I was trying to think of a good comparison for some of the islands local to where I live. I could see it being equivalent to Vancouver Island.Lol, well remember the drawbacks, though! Any cult member is little better than fodder for Mannimarco's ultimate plans. Don't end up like Wormblood, who got to enjoy all that power for such a short time.
I have no plan in interfering with his plans. I just want to recycle my dead servants in peace without anyone scolding me for it.
I mean, Wormblood wasn't interfering with Mannimarco's plans, either, but look where he ended up. I'm just saying: there's no telling when Mannimarco might decide you're the perfect candidate for whatever nefarious and likely deadly plan he's got going.
Indeed! I'm really looking forward to seeing how all that plays out.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Generally I enjoy puzzles in rpgs, and in the earlier days of ESO there were puzzles the player had to solve. They were fairly simple, but still required a modicum of attention to detail. There was one puzzle, though, that I could never figure out, because I couldn't understand what I was supposed to be seeing when it was 'correct'--and that's an alignment puzzle in Wrothgar, some dwemer device underground, where you have to rotate three rings until they're lined up properly. There was something about the angle of the device in relation to where the character was standing that made it impossible for me to see when the rings were lined up correctly. I would have loved a "skip" button for that puzzle. Instead I cheated and looked up the proper solution online.
I can't remember that one, but then again, Wrothgar was some time ago for me. The only thing that still comes up to me if I think about the Dwemer ruins there is this guy:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Harmonic_Auditor
I think that was the eeriest quest I came across is ESO. Quite a sad one, too. With the typical hard choice to made at the end (which also ended somehow after ESO's first few chapters).
Anyway, I'm all for actual puzzles, I'd also be fine with more difficult ones, plus a "skip" button. That would be fair for everyone and much better than those fake "puzzles" we often got in the later years.I think the puzzle objective might have been a victim of the time objective also mentioned--the idea that people don't want to use their precious gaming time for puzzles, that it slows down the pace too much.
Probably, but I do find it a little ironic, because this is part of the game, and for players focused on story, roleplay and exploration it might be on the same level in terms of importance for the gaming experience as every dialogue and every fight. If you shorten or remove everything some player might not enjoy, the overall experience for everyone else won't be a good one.
I really think the best solution would be designing everything on a reasonable level so the average - interested - player will be able to do it (with a bit of trying and thinking maybe), and then giving people, who can't or don't want to do it, options. Skip options, difficulty options. That would be the best in all kinds of situations. Not going for the lowest common denominator for everyone.Every Xanmeer I've been inside in this game didn't seem designed for living; seemed more ritual focused than anything else. And trap-based. Of course, these were all those that were given up by Argonians (maybe the reason they gave them up was because they weren't a very comfortable dwelling ). I'll be interested to see what the inside of a Xanmeer is like when the Argonians are still actively living in them.
I hope I might see one later todayI was trying to think of a good comparison for some of the islands local to where I live. I could see it being equivalent to Vancouver Island.
The thing I'd mostly go by would be the number of settlements. Although their number and the distances between them would also depend on the terrain.I mean, Wormblood wasn't interfering with Mannimarco's plans, either, but look where he ended up. I'm just saying: there's no telling when Mannimarco might decide you're the perfect candidate for whatever nefarious and likely deadly plan he's got going.
What would Mannimarco want with a Telvanni?Indeed! I'm really looking forward to seeing how all that plays out.
Shall I post some few spoiler-free reports here when see something interesting on PTS? Basically just how complex what I encounter is and whether I like it? It could possibly lead to disappointment, though.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Generally I enjoy puzzles in rpgs, and in the earlier days of ESO there were puzzles the player had to solve. They were fairly simple, but still required a modicum of attention to detail. There was one puzzle, though, that I could never figure out, because I couldn't understand what I was supposed to be seeing when it was 'correct'--and that's an alignment puzzle in Wrothgar, some dwemer device underground, where you have to rotate three rings until they're lined up properly. There was something about the angle of the device in relation to where the character was standing that made it impossible for me to see when the rings were lined up correctly. I would have loved a "skip" button for that puzzle. Instead I cheated and looked up the proper solution online.
I can't remember that one, but then again, Wrothgar was some time ago for me. The only thing that still comes up to me if I think about the Dwemer ruins there is this guy:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Harmonic_Auditor
I think that was the eeriest quest I came across is ESO. Quite a sad one, too. With the typical hard choice to made at the end (which also ended somehow after ESO's first few chapters).
Anyway, I'm all for actual puzzles, I'd also be fine with more difficult ones, plus a "skip" button. That would be fair for everyone and much better than those fake "puzzles" we often got in the later years.
The quest I mentioned was part of one of the clan quests; the one with the quarry that involved Neramo. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Quarry_Conundrum
That one with the Harmonic Auditor was well-done, too. I remember pondering the choice at the end.I think the puzzle objective might have been a victim of the time objective also mentioned--the idea that people don't want to use their precious gaming time for puzzles, that it slows down the pace too much.
Probably, but I do find it a little ironic, because this is part of the game, and for players focused on story, roleplay and exploration it might be on the same level in terms of importance for the gaming experience as every dialogue and every fight. If you shorten or remove everything some player might not enjoy, the overall experience for everyone else won't be a good one.
I really think the best solution would be designing everything on a reasonable level so the average - interested - player will be able to do it (with a bit of trying and thinking maybe), and then giving people, who can't or don't want to do it, options. Skip options, difficulty options. That would be the best in all kinds of situations. Not going for the lowest common denominator for everyone.
I agree.Every Xanmeer I've been inside in this game didn't seem designed for living; seemed more ritual focused than anything else. And trap-based. Of course, these were all those that were given up by Argonians (maybe the reason they gave them up was because they weren't a very comfortable dwelling ). I'll be interested to see what the inside of a Xanmeer is like when the Argonians are still actively living in them.
I hope I might see one later today
Ah, PTS peeking! Well, don't tell what you find inside--I'd like to come across that for the first time when I see it in game.I was trying to think of a good comparison for some of the islands local to where I live. I could see it being equivalent to Vancouver Island.
The thing I'd mostly go by would be the number of settlements. Although their number and the distances between them would also depend on the terrain.
If we're going by number of settlements, I'd have to choose one of the smaller islands, like a Lopez or an Orcas, and those are just too small for what Solstice seems to be. But it's a rather pointless exercise anyway, considering Solstice, as fictional world, can have and be whatever it needs for the story.I mean, Wormblood wasn't interfering with Mannimarco's plans, either, but look where he ended up. I'm just saying: there's no telling when Mannimarco might decide you're the perfect candidate for whatever nefarious and likely deadly plan he's got going.
What would Mannimarco want with a Telvanni?
What wouldn't he want with one? There's no telling where his plans for ascension to godhood will take him! I mean, ok, technically there is telling, since we know where he ends up in the future--shoeless, in a cave--but the details of his current plans might have use for a Telvanni.
I'd like to hear your general impressions of the zone itself, but if you do any quests/npc interactions, I'd rather not know about them, even spoiler-free. I like to go into a new area with knowledge of only a basic outline of a story.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The quest I mentioned was part of one of the clan quests; the one with the quarry that involved Neramo. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Quarry_Conundrum
Now I remember. That one didn't cause me any problems, but while we're at annoying puzzles, there was another one, in Elsweyr, that I found quite irritating - you had to move these things around:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sliding_Stone
In principle, I liked that puzzle type, but those cubes kept getting stuck. And that was the whole problem. There had been no reset button either. So the main part of the puzzle was, for me, trying to find a way to progress nonetheless. I think in the end I logged off and it when I logged in the next day, there had been an auto-reset, so I could repeat everything, hoping it won't get stuck another time... That was shortly after release and it seems to have been bugged a bit.That one with the Harmonic Auditor was well-done, too. I remember pondering the choice at the end.
I'd really love to see more quest endings that make me think a bit. Even endings where there's no real good outcome, but you can basically only choose what's worse. Well, we'll see how it'll be in East Solstice!Ah, PTS peeking! Well, don't tell what you find inside--I'd like to come across that for the first time when I see it in game.
If it's a residential building, I'd expect to find Argonians inside itWhat wouldn't he want with one?
I can't even cook. My servant does that for me.There's no telling where his plans for ascension to godhood will take him! I mean, ok, technically there is telling, since we know where he ends up in the future--shoeless, in a cave--but the details of his current plans might have use for a Telvanni.
You mean his marriage preparations with Vanny? Not sure whether I can help with that...I'd like to hear your general impressions of the zone itself, but if you do any quests/npc interactions, I'd rather not know about them, even spoiler-free. I like to go into a new area with knowledge of only a basic outline of a story.
I had thought of something really vague, basically more the technical side: Do most dialogues have dialogue options now? How many options are usually available? Is the flirting as silly as it had been in Part 1? Do quest choices really make a difference? But of course I can keep quiet until the official release in October (although you might notice by my mood how content I am with the execution
).
It's a bit of a pity though, that I won't be able to start my observations right now:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683147
I had hoped I could take a relaxing stroll through East Solstice tonight, since tomorrow might become a more stressful day (busy schedule, unless plans change spontaneously) - but well, doesn't look like it.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭That one with the Harmonic Auditor was well-done, too. I remember pondering the choice at the end.
I'd really love to see more quest endings that make me think a bit. Even endings where there's no real good outcome, but you can basically only choose what's worse. Well, we'll see how it'll be in East Solstice!
Same here. Not only does it help with immersion and engaging the player (at least it does for me), it also provides more interest in playing the content on another character if the player wants to see how the other choice(s) played out.
Haha, well-played! Although...the abandoned Xanmeers sometimes have Argonians inside them, too, only they're somewhat murderous towards us.
That's ok, because I'm pretty sure Mannimarco doesn't eat. As for what he would do with you--well, he probably needs test subjects to perfect his magicka-siphoning ability/machine before he uses it on the Great Mage.There's no telling where his plans for ascension to godhood will take him! I mean, ok, technically there is telling, since we know where he ends up in the future--shoeless, in a cave--but the details of his current plans might have use for a Telvanni.
You mean his marriage preparations with Vanny? Not sure whether I can help with that...
You could, if only you cared enough!I'd like to hear your general impressions of the zone itself, but if you do any quests/npc interactions, I'd rather not know about them, even spoiler-free. I like to go into a new area with knowledge of only a basic outline of a story.
I had thought of something really vague, basically more the technical side: Do most dialogues have dialogue options now? How many options are usually available? Is the flirting as silly as it had been in Part 1? Do quest choices really make a difference? But of course I can keep quiet until the official release in October (although you might notice by my mood how content I am with the execution ).
I'd be fine with hearing how often player dialogue choices crop up (particularly since they said they leaned into that system) as well as if they've expanded the number of options per reply. But if there is flirting, I'd rather come across it without any former impressions; same with what effect quest choices might have.
If you do any Writhing Wall event stuff, though, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on how the event plays. Is it hectic? Frenetic? Confusing? I can tell from the achievement pane in game already we'll be both defending and retaking the camps, but I'm curious as to whether the camps being overtaken by the enemy are scripted and will happen at set intervals, or if it's something that will only happen if we aren't good enough on the defense side. Basically, are we going to have to let the daedric forces take over the camps just so people can get those achievements.It's a bit of a pity though, that I won't be able to start my observations right now:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683147
I had hoped I could take a relaxing stroll through East Solstice tonight, since tomorrow might become a more stressful day (busy schedule, unless plans change spontaneously) - but well, doesn't look like it.
I saw that thread shortly after you mentioned in message not being able to get on PTS. That PTS...such a tease!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Same here. Not only does it help with immersion and engaging the player (at least it does for me), it also provides more interest in playing the content on another character if the player wants to see how the other choice(s) played out.
It's a bit of a pity that AwA reduced the replayability somewhat, but yes, having several different quest endings motivates me to try out several different of them on side characters.Haha, well-played! Although...the abandoned Xanmeers sometimes have Argonians inside them, too, only they're somewhat murderous towards us.
Maybe they'd be friendlier if you didn't just enter their buildings without invitationThat's ok, because I'm pretty sure Mannimarco doesn't eat.
Not even souls? Even I have eaten souls! Like cheese bacon souls.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Flickr_-_cyclonebill_-_Käsespeckseele.jpg
(Don't ask me why they're called that.)As for what he would do with you--well, he probably needs test subjects to perfect his magicka-siphoning ability/machine before he uses it on the Great Mage.
If he absorbs my energy, does that lead to a soul-merge or not? If so, he'll probably regret it soonYou could, if only you cared enough!
What do you expect me to do? Write them a poem?I'd be fine with hearing how often player dialogue choices crop up (particularly since they said they leaned into that system) as well as if they've expanded the number of options per reply. But if there is flirting, I'd rather come across it without any former impressions; same with what effect quest choices might have.
Noted. So far, I've been busy for 2 hours and I'm not even through the Wall yet. You might (not sure about that) already get through it, simply by wayshrine, but I wanted to do a bit of Wall event testing first. (At least the PTS is functioning now.)If you do any Writhing Wall event stuff, though, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on how the event plays. Is it hectic? Frenetic? Confusing? I can tell from the achievement pane in game already we'll be both defending and retaking the camps, but I'm curious as to whether the camps being overtaken by the enemy are scripted and will happen at set intervals, or if it's something that will only happen if we aren't good enough on the defense side. Basically, are we going to have to let the daedric forces take over the camps just so people can get those achievements.
So... Spoiler boxes just in case, even without story details.
My impression about the Wall event in general, the way it is on PTS:Well, the first thing I'd like to note is that what I saw on PTS might not be the way we'll actually see it in game in a month. When I logged in, the counter for the Wall event already showed Phase 3 (the last one) at 100% - that might have been simply do to the fact that that's needed to open East Solstice for players. Normally, I think that would be the point when the event is over? But in this case, the event quests are all still available. Which then also led to a bit of chaos and redundancies - like npcs showing up at different locations at the same time or refering to events you already did in a side quest as being something you still need to do later. I think (or hope) that this is only due to having everything active at the same time now for testing purposes. There are also some minor bugs like quest markers being a bit chaotic sometimes, but that's something I'm confident will still be fixed. Or maybe that's even also an effect of having - logically interfering - quests involving the same npcs active at the same time.
I also couldn't see any damage to the Wall yet - so no spectacular crumbling or fading or so despite it official being Phase 3/3 - , but that might also be related to still having all quests open for the testing. I really can't estimate how it will actually look like then when the event is live next month.
Also, there was a new world boss at the shore on West Solstice, I have no clue as for why. No story or lore explanation. Might be something explained in the earlier phases of the Wall event? I don't know.
About Wall event, simple repeatable side quests - no story spoilers (well, or no elaborate story - strictly seen "craft soup for the hungry fighters" is also a story, after all):There are a few different short side quests about supporting the Fellowship. One quest npc offers crafting quests - to craft armor or possibly potions or food for the troops (I'm not sure what exactly, I have only played the first one and looked at the second one, because the principle is always the same; and in my case, I had to make 2 shields first, and the second was about chestplates, I think? In any way, some type of heavy armor).
And then, there's also side quests about collecting something in different locations, where regular enemies there drop "item x" during the event and you need to collect that. I want to be honest: Those were rather time-consuming and not that fun. The drop rate was bad, it took an eternity to gather 15 of one of these things. 5 would have been more than enough, from my point of view! And now imagine that when 3 dozens of other players are also hunting for these... Basically like with those daily endeavours about killing x individuals of enemy type y - where you hectically run around hoping to defeat one first before someone else already killed it. I don't think that will be fun.
About the attacks on Fellowship camps:Unless I missed something, it's basically just another dolmen. Hard to say how it looks exactly if such a thing starts or what might happen over time, because it's night in EU, so there weren't many people around and no one doing these things. But the camps have the dolmen symbol on the map now and some of them showed as "active". What I saw was daedra standing in the middle of the camps - and doing nothing, because no one was attacking them. Basically like a base game dolmen when the spawning of enemies was already triggered, but no one fights them - they just stand there idly. That was a bit underwhelming, since I expected something more dynamic than the usual dolmen just with different props.
In general, doing any of these quests and defending the camps progresses the Wall event completion bar a tiny bit. Now, what I saw was only the things available during Phase 3; I have no clue how Phase 1 and Phase 2 look like.
I'll have a tea now and then I'll look how it continues. I'm also curious how it might play out that I'm playing this all on a character who did not do the base game main quest and the Solstice prologue before. Simply because I had no other choice than to create some new test character because they haven't copied our normal characters on PTS yet, for EU (at least the test character can be created with maximum level, all skills at maximum and most important things pre-unlocked).@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Same here. Not only does it help with immersion and engaging the player (at least it does for me), it also provides more interest in playing the content on another character if the player wants to see how the other choice(s) played out.
It's a bit of a pity that AwA reduced the replayability somewhat, but yes, having several different quest endings motivates me to try out several different of them on side characters.
Yeah, some parts of AwA I like, and some parts I don't. Well, that's often how it goes for me with game systems.
Is it my fault they don't have a doorbell? Or a knocker? Or a lock?That's ok, because I'm pretty sure Mannimarco doesn't eat.
Not even souls? Even I have eaten souls! Like cheese bacon souls.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Flickr_-_cyclonebill_-_Käsespeckseele.jpg
(Don't ask me why they're called that.)
I assume they're called that because you lose a little bit of your soul every time you eat one of those monstrosities.
Is your soul inextricably tied to your magicka? If not, he drains you of all magic, leaves you husk-like, and goes on his merry (?) way. If it is, however...well, he could probably use a good kick in the soul-pants via a merge with a Telvanni.
That's a start!If you do any Writhing Wall event stuff, though, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on how the event plays. Is it hectic? Frenetic? Confusing? I can tell from the achievement pane in game already we'll be both defending and retaking the camps, but I'm curious as to whether the camps being overtaken by the enemy are scripted and will happen at set intervals, or if it's something that will only happen if we aren't good enough on the defense side. Basically, are we going to have to let the daedric forces take over the camps just so people can get those achievements.
So... Spoiler boxes just in case, even without story details.
My impression about the Wall event in general, the way it is on PTS:Well, the first thing I'd like to note is that what I saw on PTS might not be the way we'll actually see it in game in a month. When I logged in, the counter for the Wall event already showed Phase 3 (the last one) at 100% - that might have been simply do to the fact that that's needed to open East Solstice for players. Normally, I think that would be the point when the event is over? But in this case, the event quests are all still available. Which then also led to a bit of chaos and redundancies - like npcs showing up at different locations at the same time or refering to events you already did in a side quest as being something you still need to do later. I think (or hope) that this is only due to having everything active at the same time now for testing purposes. There are also some minor bugs like quest markers being a bit chaotic sometimes, but that's something I'm confident will still be fixed. Or maybe that's even also an effect of having - logically interfering - quests involving the same npcs active at the same time.
I also couldn't see any damage to the Wall yet - so no spectacular crumbling or fading or so despite it official being Phase 3/3 - , but that might also be related to still having all quests open for the testing. I really can't estimate how it will actually look like then when the event is live next month.
Also, there was a new world boss at the shore on West Solstice, I have no clue as for why. No story or lore explanation. Might be something explained in the earlier phases of the Wall event? I don't know.
About Wall event, simple repeatable side quests - no story spoilers (well, or no elaborate story - strictly seen "craft soup for the hungry fighters" is also a story, after all):There are a few different short side quests about supporting the Fellowship. One quest npc offers crafting quests - to craft armor or possibly potions or food for the troops (I'm not sure what exactly, I have only played the first one and looked at the second one, because the principle is always the same; and in my case, I had to make 2 shields first, and the second was about chestplates, I think? In any way, some type of heavy armor).
And then, there's also side quests about collecting something in different locations, where regular enemies there drop "item x" during the event and you need to collect that. I want to be honest: Those were rather time-consuming and not that fun. The drop rate was bad, it took an eternity to gather 15 of one of these things. 5 would have been more than enough, from my point of view! And now imagine that when 3 dozens of other players are also hunting for these... Basically like with those daily endeavours about killing x individuals of enemy type y - where you hectically run around hoping to defeat one first before someone else already killed it. I don't think that will be fun.
About the attacks on Fellowship camps:Unless I missed something, it's basically just another dolmen. Hard to say how it looks exactly if such a thing starts or what might happen over time, because it's night in EU, so there weren't many people around and no one doing these things. But the camps have the dolmen symbol on the map now and some of them showed as "active". What I saw was daedra standing in the middle of the camps - and doing nothing, because no one was attacking them. Basically like a base game dolmen when the spawning of enemies was already triggered, but no one fights them - they just stand there idly. That was a bit underwhelming, since I expected something more dynamic than the usual dolmen just with different props.
In general, doing any of these quests and defending the camps progresses the Wall event completion bar a tiny bit. Now, what I saw was only the things available during Phase 3; I have no clue how Phase 1 and Phase 2 look like.
I'll have a tea now and then I'll look how it continues. I'm also curious how it might play out that I'm playing this all on a character who did not do the base game main quest and the Solstice prologue before. Simply because I had no other choice than to create some new test character because they haven't copied our normal characters on PTS yet, for EU (at least the test character can be created with maximum level, all skills at maximum and most important things pre-unlocked).
Thanks for the report! I know they already tested phases 1 and 2 on a previous PTS, and I do remember them saying on the stream it would be at phase 3 both for testing that phase and allowing people through to see the eastern part.
The repeatable quests sound about like what I expected,but I hope they fix the drop rate for that one part, because not only is that frustrating, I think it would also detract from the urgency the wall quests are meant to engender in us.
As far as the camp attacks go,I too was hoping for something more dynamic. Like them rushing from the wall instead of just appearing. But I guess, the sequel being what it is, a callback to base game dolmens was to be expected.
Do you think you'll play it some also on your main character if you can get him copied over? I would think that would be essential if you're interested in seeing some of the story content as regards npcs knowing you and commenting on your past deeds.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just survived... whatever that was.
They already announced during the stream that at some point at the end of the Wall event (or quest, because I think this will remain the same for people who play it outside the event later) you'll get into an extra dungeon via portal. Obviously, you need to do things there to enable the fall of the Wall.
I won't get into details, unless you'd like me to write a bit about the mechanisms, then I can do that and put it into a spoiler box.
What I can say now is: We were maybe 6 or 7 random people (one of them was @Soarora - it was nice to meet you!) plus some companions, and it took us about 2.5 hours or so (maybe longer in total, as some barriers - you need to break through barriers to progress - were already torn down when I arrived, but I was inside that thing for maybe 2 hours 20 minutes or so, I think). It was horrible! From everything you need to do, pay attention to, coordinate, you can't do it reasonably with a small group of people. It's too much at once. Coordinating with random people who not all might even speak the same language, on a bigger, non-linear map (meaning you can run in all kinds of directions - and people will do that, trying to figure out what's it all about), might also be really difficult. Now, if 30 people or more run through that during the event, it might work. Otherwise it's too much. My feeling right now is that I'm actually not looking forward to doing it another time on live (and, despite it being a pity I can't do more dialogue testing then, I don't think I'll run another character on PTS through that either). I will need to, sure, but despite it being an interesting concept and world design, it was too much. And it wasn't what I expected either. I thought it would be like an open dungeon basically, that you'd be in advantage at boss fights if some other players might come along, but that in principle, you could do it yourself. Now I don't think so.
Now, if they truly keep this dungeon as a normal part of the main quest, I can see them toning it down a bit. Less enemies, lowering hp of bosses, and so forth. I hope they'll do it reasonably, because I somehow fear this might end up being a thing that you'll be completely lost with as soon as it's not the current chapter anymore and there aren't much people around anymore. And that would be a really bad idea, locking half of the chapter behind a dungeon that's too hard for some players to complete alone.
At least I know now that it would be possible to introduce backpacks as seperate adornments
(And yes, I know that my character's hair clips through his robe. But without copies of your own characters and things on PTS, options are rather limited. It's basically like a blank account with stuff for testing available that you can pick from the store or from boxes in your inventory, and some things already unlocked, but it's rather minimalistic compared to what I've set up on my normal 9-year-old account.)
Ah, yes, and there will also be a new event next year that's for testing on PTS now. Haven't played any of that content yet, only looked at the achievement list. And I can say... the lore doesn't seem coherent there for me. Spoiler box for a picture of the flavor text of a reward box you get during that event:Now, that sounds not fitting at all.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »
https://youtu.be/UdQmg-vJUGE?si=riM1a1cCNAnCCy53
There was a new gem out recently, honestly would hope that current writers would take a curios look at it sometime as it not really directly but still touches on many issues we have now in ESO.
Thank you! I bookmarked that video and will watch it part by part when I have time.
I'm not sure though how hopeful I should be; I just recently came across an interview with Matt Firor on the website of a German gaming magazine. Now I know that he's not part of ZOS anymore and the interview is from July 2024, but I think it's interesting nonetheless. The title of the article is "Today nobody wants games like Morrowind anymore, say the head of ESO":
https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/spiele-wie-morrowind-will-heute-niemand-mehr,3416094.html
Since I'm not sure how precisely some online translator would translate this article, here are the main statements translated by me directly from the German text:
- An open world like Morrowind wouldn't function anymore due to changed habits and expectations of the consumers. Players today are used to hand-holding. Morrowind without its quest markers is too incommodious in that regard.
- Gamers don't have that much time anymore. Games should not only be made for gamers who have hundreds of hours to explore a game, but also need to cater to casual gamers who just have "20 minutes of time to kill on the side" (it's worded like that, basically like it's about doing something in a little work break not to be bored).
- Quests and gameplay mechanics can't be too complex so players with little time can still play them. At the same time they shouldn't bore people who have more time for gaming. For people with more time, there also need to be enough things to explore. It's hard to balance that. Morrowind is rather one-sided (focused on "hardcore gamers") from today's point of view.
What I can already say now is that I disagree with a lot of these points. We can discuss that in detail later.
Those answers kind of checking out with what we have in-game and the design decisions we've been subjected to. It's a bit saddening that the only mentions of Morrowind are about how "inconvenient" the game is to a modern standard that mainstream games went in recent 10-15 or so years.
Whilst I might agree to some degree on player habits etc. I don't honestly see an issue addressing both not caring clicker and a patient player. Even the directions part, sure you can use markers but can the dialogue be a thing on it's own, with said directions and more clues also supplementing the marker with context? Making at least an optional choice to not being outright shown all the detective work you're supposed to do already pre marked by a huge "look, here!" marker. At least the marker isn't glowing, bouncing and making ambient noises. Yet...
Same goes for the time remark, surely it can't be just designed for people with said 20 minutes of time in an MMO space where people are expected to spend some of their time resources by default. You can already leave at any point and return whenever you want, all the NPC character are rehashing the same points over and over again in their dialogue so it's virtually impossible to forget anything that happened your last session. Stories are already crafted for you to not necessarily have any context of the world around you and probably are experienced even better when you do not have any to begin with. It's again not trying to be for both types of players, it's choosing the lowest denominator and catering to it, in my opinion.
Same design principle goes into overland generally having a tutorial difficulty (both mechanical and narrative ones). One reason I loved older dlc and base game dungeons expecting you to read the lore books, notes and listen to the dialogues to actually understand what's going on, which isn't a thing in the other parts of the game where you've been ambiently (is that even a word form in English?) told everything and multiple times at that to not get lost or got confused.
To me all Matt is saying is that players aren't expected to care basically. Honestly I also never saw a narrative complexity as a hardcore thing, nor do I think Morrowind was really that incomprehensible, impenetrable beast. It was pretty light hearted to me personally, but still had it's depth for ones who want to engage with it.
It really leads me downwards with thoughts about the narrative being written the way it is to accommodate the "20 minutes" folk, where you going from work and don't want anything more prolonged or thought provoking. Things should adhere the real world around us right now and not follow the fictional world's ruleset and mind. You're not supposed to hear the minds of dunmeri slavers but to see a caricature of a real life slaver, being already condemned by the writer and portrayed as an enemy rather than just being a natural part of a world, a culture that's alien to us by our modern moral and other standards. And honestly it's working backwards to their design, we're (some of us) not cheering the writer's moral superiority (isn't that a given?) to the fictional small man, but contemplating why any agency was taken away from them and why they're made a one dimensional cardboard cutting instead, drawing sympathy of sort. They're not a window into the other, alien world, but a gimmick to show what was right and wrong in our own. Was honestly surprised not being subjected to writers judgements in the last chapter's Manor quest line, we're just there without making up who's right or not on a spot. The story just is, you are allowed to make your own judgement which feels... refreshing.Now the last question, since that terms especially caught my attention: Do players really expect "hand-holding"? In an open world game, I don't expect it. The opposite, I want to be able to explore, so too much hand-holding rather annoys me.
Was also a bit puzzled on that one, I do understand what he's talking about surely but in a modern gaming landscape companies are already moving backwards on this one for some time as the "ubisoft design" became a rather annoying part of gaming and people did actively called out devs on that. It surely can be an option but not a base line, not just because players aren't as mentally incapable as developers might think (there are millions other things to why this notion even exists, like impatience being the biggest factor imo) but because it's borderline hinders the experience at base, the very fundamental level if applied to a narrative design and not a mechanical one.Edited by colossalvoids on September 17, 2025 7:43AM1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I just survived... whatever that was.
They already announced during the stream that at some point at the end of the Wall event (or quest, because I think this will remain the same for people who play it outside the event later) you'll get into an extra dungeon via portal. Obviously, you need to do things there to enable the fall of the Wall.
I won't get into details, unless you'd like me to write a bit about the mechanisms, then I can do that and put it into a spoiler box.
What I can say now is: We were maybe 6 or 7 random people (one of them was @Soarora - it was nice to meet you!) plus some companions, and it took us about 2.5 hours or so (maybe longer in total, as some barriers - you need to break through barriers to progress - were already torn down when I arrived, but I was inside that thing for maybe 2 hours 20 minutes or so, I think). It was horrible! From everything you need to do, pay attention to, coordinate, you can't do it reasonably with a small group of people. It's too much at once. Coordinating with random people who not all might even speak the same language, on a bigger, non-linear map (meaning you can run in all kinds of directions - and people will do that, trying to figure out what's it all about), might also be really difficult. Now, if 30 people or more run through that during the event, it might work. Otherwise it's too much. My feeling right now is that I'm actually not looking forward to doing it another time on live (and, despite it being a pity I can't do more dialogue testing then, I don't think I'll run another character on PTS through that either). I will need to, sure, but despite it being an interesting concept and world design, it was too much. And it wasn't what I expected either. I thought it would be like an open dungeon basically, that you'd be in advantage at boss fights if some other players might come along, but that in principle, you could do it yourself. Now I don't think so.
Now, if they truly keep this dungeon as a normal part of the main quest, I can see them toning it down a bit. Less enemies, lowering hp of bosses, and so forth. I hope they'll do it reasonably, because I somehow fear this might end up being a thing that you'll be completely lost with as soon as it's not the current chapter anymore and there aren't much people around anymore. And that would be a really bad idea, locking half of the chapter behind a dungeon that's too hard for some players to complete alone.
At least I know now that it would be possible to introduce backpacks as seperate adornments
(And yes, I know that my character's hair clips through his robe. But without copies of your own characters and things on PTS, options are rather limited. It's basically like a blank account with stuff for testing available that you can pick from the store or from boxes in your inventory, and some things already unlocked, but it's rather minimalistic compared to what I've set up on my normal 9-year-old account.)
Ah, yes, and there will also be a new event next year that's for testing on PTS now. Haven't played any of that content yet, only looked at the achievement list. And I can say... the lore doesn't seem coherent there for me. Spoiler box for a picture of the flavor text of a reward box you get during that event:Now, that sounds not fitting at all.
It really does sound like that part is designed to have lots of people in there at once. In the stream, they said something about how they didn't give too much guidance for the objectives in that area (I forget exactly how it was worded). So do you just go in and figure out what to do? I'm not opposed to that kind of exploration, just curious how it plays out. However, two and half hours seems like a very long time to be in what is essentially a public dungeon, especially if you need to complete it in one play session. And if this is the part that will remain after the event is over, the part that everyone will need to do to as part of the main quest when they come through later, hopefully there are mechanics in place to account for having (possibly) only one person in there trying to do the quest. Some kind of scaling or something.
Was that backpack thing part of the quest? Is it a new thing to be able to have both a backpack and a staff showing? I've never paid much attention to backpacks in this game; I know I don't like the way they look on the outfits/costumes that have them, so I tend to ignore them.
As to the flavor text on that box...um, did they mix up their deities? That does not fit at all.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »Those answers kind of checking out with what we have in-game and the design decisions we've been subjected to.
It explains a lot, yes. Now, the interview is from summer 2024 and ZOS went through changes this year. I'm wondering whether they might change direction. But I guess we won't see that before next year's content. Maybe even later; not sure how long they work on their stories before release.colossalvoids wrote: »Whilst I might agree to some degree on player habits etc. I don't honestly see an issue addressing both not caring clicker and a patient player. Even the directions part, sure you can use markers but can the dialogue be a thing on it's own, with said directions and more clues also supplementing the marker with context? Making at least an optional choice to not being outright shown all the detective work you're supposed to do already pre marked by a huge "look, here!" marker. At least the marker isn't glowing, bouncing and making ambient noises. Yet...
If they wanted to cater to different player types, I think it would be best if they gave us good descriptions through dialogues and give us an option to turn off quest markers in the menu. Then people can choose whether they want to play "running after quest markers" or actually solve a problem by listening to dialogues and thinking. Of course I know they can't edit older quest dialogues anymore, because it's too much work and the old voice actors might not even be available anymore. But it would be nice if they did that at least for future story content.
There's an option already now, by the way, to hide the whole UI (you can assign a key to it - I have it on the wonderful letter ü, because nothing else would use ü anyway). You can still open containers and interact with everything, it just won't show you the menus (strangely, it does show questmarkers pointing to doors leading outside...). I often use that for screenshots and some days ago I noticed at some point that I was playing with the UI hidden for a while. I didn't even realize until there was a dialogue (random encounter in the wilderness) and I was wondering where the dialogue text iscolossalvoids wrote: »Same goes for the time remark, surely it can't be just designed for people with said 20 minutes of time in an MMO space where people are expected to spend some of their time resources by default. You can already leave at any point and return whenever you want, all the NPC character are rehashing the same points over and over again in their dialogue so it's virtually impossible to forget anything that happened your last session.
The strangest thing to me is to write stories with that in mind. To me it's clear that, if I have only a few minutes of time, I will not start questing in a complex rpg. Maybe a bit of crafting. Fishing might also work. Small things that only take a few minutes. But questing? Within 20 minutes, it's hard to even get really immersed! And I know that a story takes time to develop.colossalvoids wrote: »Stories are already crafted for you to not necessarily have any context of the world around you and probably are experienced even better when you do not have any to begin with.
It's again not trying to be for both types of players, it's choosing the lowest denominator and catering to it, in my opinion.
Sadly, both of that.colossalvoids wrote: »Honestly I also never saw a narrative complexity as a hardcore thing, nor do I think Morrowind was really that incomprehensible, impenetrable beast. It was pretty light hearted to me personally, but still had it's depth for ones who want to engage with it.
I think in TES games, it's usually really a question of choice how much you get into the lore. You learn a bit about Tamriel along the way while questing, naturally, but you never need some obscure background lore to finish quests. Everything is still understandable if you only know the current story; background lore is always more some extra fun if you are interested in the world or want to understand how some things are related. You could finish Skyrim's civil war questline without having much background info on the Great War and the White-Gold Concordat, for example. If makes it more complex and more interesting, of course, but you could also have chosen to just play a Nord who wants Skyrim's independence, nothing more.
Now, of course not everyone cares for background lore. There are probably lots of people who never really read any of the lorebooks, especially those that are not needed directly for quest completion (like reading something for a puzzle, like we had it in ESO's early years). But there are also a lot of people who do care. And I really hope that these, I am obviously one of them, still get interesting background lore.
I had the impression it has gotten less over time in ESO. Of course, in West Solstice, we still had books about the three biggest groups of settlers there - the History of Clan Corelanya books, a few on the Argonians, a few on the Nord village - , but we got to several locations where we really learnt nothing about them. And I think in earlier stories there was at least one book at every location, wasn't there? Plus all kinds of diaries or letters just telling us little stories about some people who live in that area. I can remember in the base game, if you snooped around in some random village, you would just find diaries there in those villagers' houses, telling us about their daily life, their thoughts on some lore topic, or telling us about an event that happened at that location from the perspective of different people who witnessed it. You didn't need to read those to progress any quest. But they were a natural part of the world, contributing to immersion and atmosphere, and giving us more background knowledge about how Tamriel is like.colossalvoids wrote: »It really leads me downwards with thoughts about the narrative being written the way it is to accommodate the "20 minutes" folk, where you going from work and don't want anything more prolonged or thought provoking. Things should adhere the real world around us right now and not follow the fictional world's ruleset and mind. You're not supposed to hear the minds of dunmeri slavers but to see a caricature of a real life slaver, being already condemned by the writer and portrayed as an enemy rather than just being a natural part of a world, a culture that's alien to us by our modern moral and other standards. And honestly it's working backwards to their design, we're (some of us) not cheering the writer's moral superiority (isn't that a given?) to the fictional small man, but contemplating why any agency was taken away from them and why they're made a one dimensional cardboard cutting instead, drawing sympathy of sort. They're not a window into the other, alien world, but a gimmick to show what was right and wrong in our own.
That's one of the main problems for me; I enjoy TES games because I find the world we got presented there through lore interesting. I quest because I want to see and learn more about this fictional world: Their habits, their beliefs, their societies and moral concepts. It's interesting because it's an alien world. I don't need to play a fantasy rpg if I want to learn about current real world morals - I see those every day. I play fantasy games and read fantasy fiction because I want to see something different.colossalvoids wrote: »Was honestly surprised not being subjected to writers judgements in the last chapter's Manor quest line, we're just there without making up who's right or not on a spot. The story just is, you are allowed to make your own judgement which feels... refreshing.
Yes, that was surprising, and it made this one side quest outstanding; and, for me, the best quest of the whole chapter. If everything was on this level, I'd be happy.
I had wished for something similar for the Worm Cult. Actually showing us what motivates people to join. Giving us a different perspective to think about. Mannimarco and Wormblood background lore to understand how these characters are thinking and who they are, where they came from, how their upbringing might have contributed to what they became - or maybe something surprising that doesn't fit the expectations, that then makes you think. Instead, we get a cliché: Evil guys being evil, haha, world domination!!! We are told Mannimarco is super eloquent and got into high diplomatic circles, plotting and deceiving the rulers of different kingdoms - but we never see it. We just see a cult leader surrounded by skulls and corpses, sacrificing people sometimes, yelling angrily at other times. Then again, that's already more than we saw of Wormblood.It really does sound like that part is designed to have lots of people in there at once. In the stream, they said something about how they didn't give too much guidance for the objectives in that area (I forget exactly how it was worded). So do you just go in and figure out what to do? I'm not opposed to that kind of exploration, just curious how it plays out. However, two and half hours seems like a very long time to be in what is essentially a public dungeon, especially if you need to complete it in one play session. And if this is the part that will remain after the event is over, the part that everyone will need to do to as part of the main quest when they come through later, hopefully there are mechanics in place to account for having (possibly) only one person in there trying to do the quest. Some kind of scaling or something.
It was a bit less hand-holding than usual and you had to navigate for yourself. It's not the usual tunnel-like dungeon where there's only one direction to go, but you have to run back and forth sometimes. The main objective is getting to the tower. You have 3 areas before that. You need to make the way free somehow.
But it's actually very easy to understand, in a way instinctually: If you see items to pick up (marked by a yellow glow for convenience), pick them up - obviously you will need them later. If you see some object to interact with, interact and look what happens. If you see a boss, fight it. If you see a closed gate, find a way to open it. If there's a broken bridge, find a way to repair it. If you see a ballista labelled as "damaged ballista" and interactable, obviously search for repair parts and use the repaired ballista for big enemies, if one spawns nearby. You don't need to be super creative, really, it's more or less about just doing the thing that makes sense with the objects you're given or the situation you see.
You even have some quest markers, although those were horribly bugged - not sure how that will look in a month, but if you listened to the dialogue, you know that you need to progress through the fortress anyway, to the big tower. So I find those broken quest markers actually even more confusing, because they made you think there's still something to do (that you might have missed - maybe an important object or so), despite you already having crossed that area successfully. At some locations you even have some npcs (like the annoying prince) yelling obvious things at you all the time ("Open the gate!", "Repair the ballista!" - Funny, I already figured that out earlier when there was no one yelling these things at me, prince), although those also seemed to be bugged and not related to the actual progress. So basically he was yelling about opening a gate that was already open. Which again, was more confusing because it made you wonder you might have missed something somewhere.
I actually liked the concept. Wouldn't even have needed markers and yelling. The problem was that it was clearly designed for a huge mass of people, and we were only a few. At the beginning I was even completely alone, trying to pick up repair parts and shoot ballistas (doing minor damage on the huge boss and being damaged again after only 3 shots...) while endless daedra hordes of 20 to 30 daedra of all sizes (from normal to monstrous) kept attacking me!
That's me, fighting off a few daedra (although those were just a few compared to other situations) while trying to get the gathered repair parts to some ballista... alone:
And that was the main problem: I kept exploring and got into situations all the time where I saw was the next step to progress through the dungeon, but it wasn't really doable alone. And meanwhile, there were maybe 2, 3 other people running around who knows where, maybe in the same trouble as me but at a different location/gate/boss within the map. It's not labeled as a group dungeon, you don't really expect it to be that difficult because the quest parts right before that are normal solo questing experiences. If you knew what you're getting into it would have been easier.
We then spontaneouly bunched up a bit, just people who met in there by chance. Then we were 3 people. Later, at the final boss, we were 6, I think. Although that was mostly because the fight took so horribly long and more people arrived there during the fight.
I agree that if this dungeon remains after the Wall event (which I wouldn't disagree with, it's actually a nicely designed dungeon), it needs to scale according to the number of players present. There must be a way to progress through it alone, if there's no one else around. Otherwise I really see problems coming for people who want to play this content in the future, because in some years, it's very probable that you will be alone there.Was that backpack thing part of the quest? Is it a new thing to be able to have both a backpack and a staff showing? I've never paid much attention to backpacks in this game; I know I don't like the way they look on the outfits/costumes that have them, so I tend to ignore them.
It's the visual indicator in that dungeon that you have picked up repair parts. You carried them with you until you used them or until you died.
When it comes to costumes that have a backpack: It already showed both your weapon/shield and the backpack before, usually leading to clipping problems. Although with some, the combination of backpack and staff worked rather well; I used this one for some time, years ago:
What was new in the current dungeon was that it would add the backpack over the armor or costume you were wearing, as a seperate thing. My character wore the Sadrith Mora Telvanni robe and it worked well.As to the flavor text on that box...um, did they mix up their deities? That does not fit at all.
I already addressed that in the PTS forum now. I'm wondering how something like that happens, through? They do have a loremaster whose task it is to check everything for lore consistency, after all.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've been on PTS a bit more than I originally planned. My first plan was to just look around and maybe do some side quests. But then I went for the whole Wall event thing that I described, became a bit curious to see Part 2 of the main quest.
Then I noticed that, despite the last quest of Part 1 being automatically set to "completed" on the map overview (because I created a new test character with that setting), you can't continue the story there, as long as not all quests of Part 1 are completed. So if the last quest of Part 1 is marked as finished, it won't send you to quest 1 of Part 2, but still to the very beginning, quest 1 of Part 1.
Since I really don't want to repeat the Wall thing on another PTS character later, I decided to just run through the main story of Part 1 with that new character, just skimming dialogues, since I still know them anyway. It took me not much more than half an hour. And it worked, despite the order being completely messed up of course (and also some of the dialogues because of that, but... doesn't matter, I managed to finish it); I basically had what happened in the Colored Rooms as the character background, then destroyed the Wall, then went to Solstice harbor not knowing anything about the Wall that everyone talked about was there (despite it being deactivated already - it will turn invisible then), and then I played through the main quest until I had found the Gift of Death, and then I was immediately congratulated for breaking the Wall and moved to East Solstice - wonderful.
It was not completely wasted since I saw for the first time what the dialogues would say if you haven't completed the base game main quest before. For example, when it comes to the topic of Mannimarco's death, you'll be told that he died when he fought over the Amulet of Kings with his old companions from back then who had formed anew after the Planemeld began. The Vestige is basically just fully removed from the story.
The sarcophagus also still is in the mine (which is also slightly strange since you even have a Wall event quest leading you in there - although, to be fair, you would normally not walk that deep into the mine again). The glowy Wall behind it is gone, and you see that there's not actually any way to East Solstice, but just a simple unstructured cave wall. It shows again that you're just not supposed to ever go to that location again, so you would never see that after the removal of the Wall anyway.
Unexpectedly, they fixed Vanny's hair (better late than never, I guess). But not the creepy eyeball problems his projections have.
Oh, and that cave entrance I found, that I posted a screenshot of some days ago - it indeed plays a role for the Wall event. It's a pity that the story will at some point tell you this thing had just appeared - while everyone who saw it while exploring earlier will know that, no, that cave didn't just break in, it has been there for days and weeks already. It's basically the same situation as with the sarcophagus that's already in the mine if you haven't even started the main quest: They don't seem to expect players to explore. They seem to think you just run after the quest markers but never set a foot at any other location on your own. And I do find that sad, because it is an open world game and exploration is a part of that.
So, the Solstice main story in total consists of 11 quests: 1-5 were Part 1, quest 6 is that Wall thing I spent over 2 hours in, and 7-11 are Part 2. We'll see where that leads
I will not get into detailed descriptions and not make any final judgements yet, because between PTS and live, things can still change. There are still dialogues missing, especially background dialogue you'd hear while walking, there are still bugs. I'll look at the details later when it's official, in a month or so. But I can write about general impressions - like how much it meets those expectations about many different dialogue options and different endings, that we got through the Twitch stream. Of course, everything neatly put into spoiler boxes. Later.
I can already say this though: The first dialogue after the Wall fell, I got the option to ask once more what a Planemeld is
You can't even get to that point if you haven't finished all other Solstice quests before! It was silly, really. Just destroyed the Wall and then you're like "What's a Planemeld? There are daedra, on this island?!"... @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I've been on PTS a bit more than I originally planned. My first plan was to just look around and maybe do some side quests. But then I went for the whole Wall event thing that I described, became a bit curious to see Part 2 of the main quest.
Then I noticed that, despite the last quest of Part 1 being automatically set to "completed" on the map overview (because I created a new test character with that setting), you can't continue the story there, as long as not all quests of Part 1 are completed. So if the last quest of Part 1 is marked as finished, it won't send you to quest 1 of Part 2, but still to the very beginning, quest 1 of Part 1.
Since I really don't want to repeat the Wall thing on another PTS character later, I decided to just run through the main story of Part 1 with that new character, just skimming dialogues, since I still know them anyway. It took me not much more than half an hour. And it worked, despite the order being completely messed up of course (and also some of the dialogues because of that, but... doesn't matter, I managed to finish it); I basically had what happened in the Colored Rooms as the character background, then destroyed the Wall, then went to Solstice harbor not knowing anything about the Wall that everyone talked about was there (despite it being deactivated already - it will turn invisible then), and then I played through the main quest until I had found the Gift of Death, and then I was immediately congratulated for breaking the Wall and moved to East Solstice - wonderful.
That sounds like it might be something unique to PTS, and that on live servers, you won't have access to that quest unless you have completed the first half of the main Solstice quest. Since, after all, it's one main quest, so you won't be able to do the bridge quest where you take down the wall until you've done the first half. Unless I misunderstand how it's meant to work. Or unless I've misunderstood what you said.It was not completely wasted since I saw for the first time what the dialogues would say if you haven't completed the base game main quest before. For example, when it comes to the topic of Mannimarco's death, you'll be told that he died when he fought over the Amulet of Kings with his old companions from back then who had formed anew after the Planemeld began. The Vestige is basically just fully removed from the story.
The sarcophagus also still is in the mine (which is also slightly strange since you even have a Wall event quest leading you in there - although, to be fair, you would normally not walk that deep into the mine again). The glowy Wall behind it is gone, and you see that there's not actually any way to East Solstice, but just a simple unstructured cave wall. It shows again that you're just not supposed to ever go to that location again, so you would never see that after the removal of the Wall anyway.
Unexpectedly, they fixed Vanny's hair (better late than never, I guess). But not the creepy eyeball problems his projections have.
That's funny about the Vestige being removed from the story. I guess they had to do it that way, since the player character is the Vestige, and if they go back and do the base game main quest, they'll be in the story then. It's all a time-loop circle that makes perfect sense, I swear.
Odd, though, that the sarcophagus is back in the mine. Maybe Meridia booted it out of her realm and it just landed at its last-known location. Reverse-portal style.
I still think the eyeball effects for the Great Mage are intentional. A sort of static interference with the signal type of deal.Oh, and that cave entrance I found, that I posted a screenshot of some days ago - it indeed plays a role for the Wall event. It's a pity that the story will at some point tell you this thing had just appeared - while everyone who saw it while exploring earlier will know that, no, that cave didn't just break in, it has been there for days and weeks already. It's basically the same situation as with the sarcophagus that's already in the mine if you haven't even started the main quest: They don't seem to expect players to explore. They seem to think you just run after the quest markers but never set a foot at any other location on your own. And I do find that sad, because it is an open world game and exploration is a part of that.
It kind of makes me think that it wasn't meant to be in the game just yet. Like the changes to the camps and such. Or maybe all that did have to be in first, so when the event starts, it can just begin without any down time. I dunno. But I know for a fact they do expect players to explore, because they've mentioned it in various streams. They even took that into account when making the eastern half inaccessible. This could just be a case of the game mechanics taking precedence over narrative.So, the Solstice main story in total consists of 11 quests: 1-5 were Part 1, quest 6 is that Wall thing I spent over 2 hours in, and 7-11 are Part 2. We'll see where that leads
I will not get into detailed descriptions and not make any final judgements yet, because between PTS and live, things can still change. There are still dialogues missing, especially background dialogue you'd hear while walking, there are still bugs. I'll look at the details later when it's official, in a month or so. But I can write about general impressions - like how much it meets those expectations about many different dialogue options and different endings, that we got through the Twitch stream. Of course, everything neatly put into spoiler boxes. Later.
I can already say this though: The first dialogue after the Wall fell, I got the option to ask once more what a Planemeld is You can't even get to that point if you haven't finished all other Solstice quests before! It was silly, really. Just destroyed the Wall and then you're like "What's a Planemeld? There are daedra, on this island?!"...
You say you got the option to ask about a Planemeld--hopefully that means you didn't have to choose that question to advance the quest. That is, you could just not select it and everything would be fine. Because I don't mind them putting in questions like that for people to ask if they need to; it's when it becomes mandatory to progress that I get annoyed.
Yes, I get that it seems silly for that question to show up after the destruction of the wall, but considering we're going into the eastern half where some of the reverse planemeld has happened, perhaps they felt a little reminder might be warranted.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That sounds like it might be something unique to PTS, and that on live servers, you won't have access to that quest unless you have completed the first half of the main Solstice quest. Since, after all, it's one main quest, so you won't be able to do the bridge quest where you take down the wall until you've done the first half. Unless I misunderstand how it's meant to work. Or unless I've misunderstood what you said.
I'm quite sure they already marked the Colored Rooms quest as finished so you can gain access to that dungeon. And maybe forgot that you need all previous quests to actually continue the storyline on the other side. Or maybe something's bugged. Anyway, if that Writhing Fortress thing is listed as quest #6 in the questline, I'm rather confident that after the event, it will remain - hopefully altered so it's solo friendly.That's funny about the Vestige being removed from the story. I guess they had to do it that way, since the player character is the Vestige, and if they go back and do the base game main quest, they'll be in the story then. It's all a time-loop circle that makes perfect sense, I swear.
Actually, they could have just kept the normal dialogue. It's what happens in the story, in any way. Also, they've made clear that this is a sequel to the base game main story. If they care, they could even put in some little extra scene if you play Solstice first and then begin the base game main story afterwards. Basically like they did with Cadwell's silver/gold - telling you you're seeing the events that happened during the Planemeld, through the eyes of the Vestige. Yes, I know that wouldn't be 100% plausible, but it would be better than without any explanation, would it?Odd, though, that the sarcophagus is back in the mine. Maybe Meridia booted it out of her realm and it just landed at its last-known location. Reverse-portal style.
Who knows where it will show up next! Is it possible to prepare a portal location? I still have a spot in my cellar.I still think the eyeball effects for the Great Mage are intentional. A sort of static interference with the signal type of deal.
Is it a good sign they changed his hair? Might that mean he'll survive for a little longer?You say you got the option to ask about a Planemeld--hopefully that means you didn't have to choose that question to advance the quest. That is, you could just not select it and everything would be fine. Because I don't mind them putting in questions like that for people to ask if they need to; it's when it becomes mandatory to progress that I get annoyed.
Yes, I get that it seems silly for that question to show up after the destruction of the wall, but considering we're going into the eastern half where some of the reverse planemeld has happened, perhaps they felt a little reminder might be warranted.
Let that be a surprise
Anyway, I'm in quest 9 now. Of 11. Yes, that was fast. Although I guess it might take a little longer when it's been officially released - right now, most dialogues aren't voiced yet (not sure about the English version, but for the German translation, most sound files are still missing) and I'm a fast reader. I'm also not that careful as in my normal playthroughs, as I mostly intend to have a look and maybe test a few things.
I haven't done any side quests yet - will do that next, so I get the extra dialogues before the finale.
My impressions on a few topics so far (feel free to read as much or as little as you like):
General impression (spoilerfree when it comes to the story, I do mention though whether or not I liked it so far and why):I'd say it's more of the same. No big difference to Part 1. We have important people doing or saying whatever on ledges. Items that do whatever they need to do for the story. Some lore contradictions (people from the West side inhabiting a place on the East regularly, despite someone told us two sentences ago that no one knows how the East looks like because people from the West never go there). Mannimarco with and without mask (had a clearer view this time, though). We have lots of repetitions in dialogue (npcs can babble forever and say nothing new) and can ask really strange questions that lead to even more such babble. It's generally short (you certainly have guessed, if I've almost finished the main story already). There are some nice ideas or interesting effects at some locations, but I wasn't really impressed so far.
Introduction of new lore (no details, just how much):This honestly disappointed me. It feels so weirdly void of lore?! Maybe there's more in side quests, since I haven't done those yet, but in the whole main quest I haven't come across more than 2 or maybe 3 lorebooks yet. Nothing new in bookshelves either. There are several letters (at least that's lore-appropriate: Mannimarco writing lots of letters). But those usually don't give any background info but just describe what had just happened and basically give us a clue where we need to go next.
Dialogue options:Strangely, I couldn't see a difference to Part 1 so far. Not sure whether it will all be in the last 2 quests or maybe in side quests?! But so far, I mostly had no extra options at all, sometimes 1, rarely 2. And then it's usually "friendly" or "funny" or something like that, with the sentiment towards the npc we're talking it predefined for us (also: predefined morals, as usual). Also the same problem as in Part 1: If there's an angry reply, it's mostly not directed at the npc, but more a general mood thing (like swearing revenge "normally" or aggressively). Most options didn't feel meaningful. Nothing hinting at different endings so far. Some reactions feel exaggerated and some don't make sense to me at all (including jokes), not sure if that's a translation mistake or maybe dialogue lines were messed up? Generally, I'm really astounded, since in the stream, it sounded really different. Did I fall asleep? Is this some weird dream? Have I somehow travelled into a parallel dimension where these announcements were never made? Help!
About those huge bone fortresses:They are supposed to be ancient, the Worm Cult just decorated them. Shortly ago, it is stated. I'm glad the Worm Cult had time for that!@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭That's funny about the Vestige being removed from the story. I guess they had to do it that way, since the player character is the Vestige, and if they go back and do the base game main quest, they'll be in the story then. It's all a time-loop circle that makes perfect sense, I swear.
Actually, they could have just kept the normal dialogue. It's what happens in the story, in any way. Also, they've made clear that this is a sequel to the base game main story. If they care, they could even put in some little extra scene if you play Solstice first and then begin the base game main story afterwards. Basically like they did with Cadwell's silver/gold - telling you you're seeing the events that happened during the Planemeld, through the eyes of the Vestige. Yes, I know that wouldn't be 100% plausible, but it would be better than without any explanation, would it?
I don't know. Cadwell's explanation is pretty dated, since you can do all the quests in all the zones before you ever go to Coldharbour and get access to silver/gold. Granted, I've never done that, so I don't know how it plays out, but I assume his quest bestowal dialogue stays the same. I think it would have been stranger for someone to tell the Vestige that the Vestige did something the Vestige hasn't, in fact, done yet. Because even if they aren't the Vestige at that point, if they ever go do the base game main quest, they become the Vestige. And since canonically there's only one Vestige, well...I've used the word Vestige so much it's lost all meaning.Odd, though, that the sarcophagus is back in the mine. Maybe Meridia booted it out of her realm and it just landed at its last-known location. Reverse-portal style.
Who knows where it will show up next! Is it possible to prepare a portal location? I still have a spot in my cellar.
Listen, the only thing I know about portal magic is this: whatever the portal needs to do for the story is what the portal is capable of doing. So if, in your story, the portal needs to be able to have a prepared location, that is possible. Let me know if that works out.
It's a good sign indeed! His new hair is fabulous and his old hair is not. That's really all that matters when it comes to the Great Mage's coiffure. I don't know if there's any correlation between his hair and his survival, but I have to hope there is.You say you got the option to ask about a Planemeld--hopefully that means you didn't have to choose that question to advance the quest. That is, you could just not select it and everything would be fine. Because I don't mind them putting in questions like that for people to ask if they need to; it's when it becomes mandatory to progress that I get annoyed.
Yes, I get that it seems silly for that question to show up after the destruction of the wall, but considering we're going into the eastern half where some of the reverse planemeld has happened, perhaps they felt a little reminder might be warranted.
Let that be a surprise
Anyway, I'm in quest 9 now. Of 11. Yes, that was fast. Although I guess it might take a little longer when it's been officially released - right now, most dialogues aren't voiced yet (not sure about the English version, but for the German translation, most sound files are still missing) and I'm a fast reader. I'm also not that careful as in my normal playthroughs, as I mostly intend to have a look and maybe test a few things.
I haven't done any side quests yet - will do that next, so I get the extra dialogues before the finale.
My impressions on a few topics so far (feel free to read as much or as little as you like):
General impression (spoilerfree when it comes to the story, I do mention though whether or not I liked it so far and why):I'd say it's more of the same. No big difference to Part 1. We have important people doing or saying whatever on ledges. Items that do whatever they need to do for the story. Some lore contradictions (people from the West side inhabiting a place on the East regularly, despite someone told us two sentences ago that no one knows how the East looks like because people from the West never go there). Mannimarco with and without mask (had a clearer view this time, though). We have lots of repetitions in dialogue (npcs can babble forever and say nothing new) and can ask really strange questions that lead to even more such babble. It's generally short (you certainly have guessed, if I've almost finished the main story already). There are some nice ideas or interesting effects at some locations, but I wasn't really impressed so far.
Introduction of new lore (no details, just how much):This honestly disappointed me. It feels so weirdly void of lore?! Maybe there's more in side quests, since I haven't done those yet, but in the whole main quest I haven't come across more than 2 or maybe 3 lorebooks yet. Nothing new in bookshelves either. There are several letters (at least that's lore-appropriate: Mannimarco writing lots of letters). But those usually don't give any background info but just describe what had just happened and basically give us a clue where we need to go next.
Dialogue options:Strangely, I couldn't see a difference to Part 1 so far. Not sure whether it will all be in the last 2 quests or maybe in side quests?! But so far, I mostly had no extra options at all, sometimes 1, rarely 2. And then it's usually "friendly" or "funny" or something like that, with the sentiment towards the npc we're talking it predefined for us (also: predefined morals, as usual). Also the same problem as in Part 1: If there's an angry reply, it's mostly not directed at the npc, but more a general mood thing (like swearing revenge "normally" or aggressively). Most options didn't feel meaningful. Nothing hinting at different endings so far. Some reactions feel exaggerated and some don't make sense to me at all (including jokes), not sure if that's a translation mistake or maybe dialogue lines were messed up? Generally, I'm really astounded, since in the stream, it sounded really different. Did I fall asleep? Is this some weird dream? Have I somehow travelled into a parallel dimension where these announcements were never made? Help!
About those huge bone fortresses:They are supposed to be ancient, the Worm Cult just decorated them. Shortly ago, it is stated. I'm glad the Worm Cult had time for that!
I have to say, I'm wary of reading even these spoilers. I know you won't give away any story points or anything like that, but I'm worried even reading your impressions will be sort of spoilery. It's possible I'm over-thinking it. I sometimes do that.Edited by metheglyn on September 18, 2025 4:48AM0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know. Cadwell's explanation is pretty dated, since you can do all the quests in all the zones before you ever go to Coldharbour and get access to silver/gold. Granted, I've never done that, so I don't know how it plays out, but I assume his quest bestowal dialogue stays the same.
Yes, the dialogue is still the same. I saw that a few weeks ago when I did the base game main quest on a side character.I think it would have been stranger for someone to tell the Vestige that the Vestige did something the Vestige hasn't, in fact, done yet. Because even if they aren't the Vestige at that point, if they ever go do the base game main quest, they become the Vestige. And since canonically there's only one Vestige, well...I've used the word Vestige so much it's lost all meaning.
Then we need another solution. How about time travel?Listen, the only thing I know about portal magic is this: whatever the portal needs to do for the story is what the portal is capable of doing. So if, in your story, the portal needs to be able to have a prepared location, that is possible. Let me know if that works out.
Or I may need to summon it. But how does one summon a sarcophagus? Wait, I could summon the content, maybe? That would also transport the container, I hope?It's a good sign indeed! His new hair is fabulous and his old hair is not. That's really all that matters when it comes to the Great Mage's coiffure. I don't know if there's any correlation between his hair and his survival, but I have to hope there is.
It's the same hairstyle he had 350 years ago as a student on Artaeum.I have to say, I'm wary of reading even these spoilers. I know you won't give away any story points or anything like that, but I'm worried even reading your impressions will be sort of spoilery. It's possible I'm over-thinking it. I sometimes do that.
Oh, then it might be better to not read them. I can just link that post again in about a month when everything is live - unless there were lots of changes between PTS and the final version. Hard so say. There were still quite a lot of bugs.
I already finished all side quests now, by the way. The number was limited. One was bugged so much I could not end it (ending npc refused to talk to me). There was something about "hidden overland quests" in the stream, but they must be really well-hidden?! At least I didn't find anything not related to map locations this time, despite systematically searching the map for quests as carefully as ever.
Also did the questline for the new event next year - the tasks were mostly fun, but the lore... ah well. Made no sense for me at all.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I think it would have been stranger for someone to tell the Vestige that the Vestige did something the Vestige hasn't, in fact, done yet. Because even if they aren't the Vestige at that point, if they ever go do the base game main quest, they become the Vestige. And since canonically there's only one Vestige, well...I've used the word Vestige so much it's lost all meaning.
Then we need another solution. How about time travel?
Time travel, time-loop circle: it's all the same. So, that's settled!Listen, the only thing I know about portal magic is this: whatever the portal needs to do for the story is what the portal is capable of doing. So if, in your story, the portal needs to be able to have a prepared location, that is possible. Let me know if that works out.
Or I may need to summon it. But how does one summon a sarcophagus? Wait, I could summon the content, maybe? That would also transport the container, I hope?
If you could summon the content of a thing, why couldn't you just summon the thing itself? Besides, we know it can be done, because the Worm Cult did it in the Colored Rooms. If those idiots can manage it, should be no problem for you.It's a good sign indeed! His new hair is fabulous and his old hair is not. That's really all that matters when it comes to the Great Mage's coiffure. I don't know if there's any correlation between his hair and his survival, but I have to hope there is.
It's the same hairstyle he had 350 years ago as a student on Artaeum.
Then he never should have abandoned it for that lank hairstyle he had for so long. Stick with the classics, always.I have to say, I'm wary of reading even these spoilers. I know you won't give away any story points or anything like that, but I'm worried even reading your impressions will be sort of spoilery. It's possible I'm over-thinking it. I sometimes do that.
Oh, then it might be better to not read them. I can just link that post again in about a month when everything is live - unless there were lots of changes between PTS and the final version. Hard so say. There were still quite a lot of bugs.
I already finished all side quests now, by the way. The number was limited. One was bugged so much I could not end it (ending npc refused to talk to me). There was something about "hidden overland quests" in the stream, but they must be really well-hidden?! At least I didn't find anything not related to map locations this time, despite systematically searching the map for quests as carefully as ever.
Also did the questline for the new event next year - the tasks were mostly fun, but the lore... ah well. Made no sense for me at all.
Since you've done all the quests and such already, is there going to be much incentive for you to do them when they go live? I repeat zone and story quests in the game often, but there's usually been a good chunk of time in between so it doesn't feel too repetitive. If I had done eastern Solstice on the PTS, doing it all over again on live when it came out would be too soon for me. Some things might be in a different enough state by then to make it seem fresh, I suppose.
What's this new event, by the way? I'm really in the dark about that one. If it was mentioned anywhere before now, I missed it or don't remember it.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time travel, time-loop circle: it's all the same. So, that's settled!
I pity Tamriel's chroniclers of this era.If you could summon the content of a thing, why couldn't you just summon the thing itself? Besides, we know it can be done, because the Worm Cult did it in the Colored Rooms. If those idiots can manage it, should be no problem for you.
I hope it's not too spoilery, but I've realized my dream will be fulfilled (Well, that sounds a little weird... a bit too much, maybe ), and the sarcophagus will be an achievement furnishing! I mean, a replica of the sarcophagus, of course - can't keep the Worm King's corpse in your home, that's both too unsafe and too safe for Tamriel, I guess. And you don't just get any replica, but the super deluxe version with over 100 black candles and some kinds of adornments that we actually never see in game
Which makes me wonder though how much content might have been cut or reorganized while creating the quests?! This different version was surely not created without reason, just as a furnishing.Then he never should have abandoned it for that lank hairstyle he had for so long. Stick with the classics, always.
Maybe it reminded him too much of... ah, anyway.Since you've done all the quests and such already, is there going to be much incentive for you to do them when they go live? I repeat zone and story quests in the game often, but there's usually been a good chunk of time in between so it doesn't feel too repetitive. If I had done eastern Solstice on the PTS, doing it all over again on live when it came out would be too soon for me. Some things might be in a different enough state by then to make it seem fresh, I suppose.
If what I'd see on PTS was close to the final version, it might be too much for me, too. So in earlier years, when I just did a bit of exploration on PTS and noticed that almost everything seemed rather final already, I would not quest.
But this time I realized fastly that the current status is far from final, at least when it comes to the German localization. Most texts are still in English. Some are in a weird mishmash, mostly in English with single parts already translated to German (It's clear now they don't seem to translate dialogues as a whole, but only single lines - no wonder there are translation mistakes sometimes because translators don't seem to know the context!). Audio is missing almost completely, not only in dialogues, but there's also no ambient dialogue and if someone talks outside of dialogue boxes during quests, those parts are also still missing. I've checked, unfortunately, the same goes for the subtitles - so there are always passages where I can only guess what's spoken. It's funny though that without spoken dialogue you clearly hear some random sounds they make while gesturing, obviously tied to the animation/emote - things like sighing or incomprehensible grumbling noises. It's also interesting how much your focus shifts if there's almost no spoken dialogue; let's say that all other sound effects feel much more impactful then.
Another reason I went through with it was the abundance of bugs that's still there. I'm sorry I have to say that, but it seem to be more than in the years before and if they want to get all of that fixed within roughly 3 weeks (until the Wall event starts), that will be a lot of work. I hope I can at least report as many as possible. I don't even mean dialogue problems unless very jarring ones (Not sure how much I should report there because it's obviously still worked on, so it's not the finished form I see anyway), but there were many other bugs, some rather ordinary like a delve map missing, some really weird. The most peculiar ones were npcs who were supposed to help me in a battle attacking me instead (and to make it even worse, they didn't even have a health bar, so all I could do was letting them kill me, respawn at wayshrine, and hope that things will be normal when I enter the location another time), the sky getting that turqoise tint it gets when you die while you traverse a specific bridge in East Solstice, and an Argonian granny introducing herself as Battlereeve Urcelmo (who doesn't even show up in this story)What's this new event, by the way? I'm really in the dark about that one. If it was mentioned anywhere before now, I missed it or don't remember it.
It was never mentioned before, but just showed up on PTS. It's intended for Heart's Day (extended to Heart's Week), which is in mid February. There will be reward boxes and such, with new types of rewards, but most interesting for me was the questline related to it. It's rather long for an event quest, and the ideas weren't bad by themselves, some dialogues were genuinely quaint, but the lore... I don't get it. I've already linked a picture to that event box earlier, that you already commented on that it sounds like they accidentally confused some deities, and the lore presented during the event seems similarly strange. I can give a short summary if you want (really just the vague concept of the whole storyline, no details about the single quests). You decide.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0
