ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Not inclusive. Where is the RPG players, the solo runners, the base new players in all these grand plans to appease the power happy? When was the last time you heard the development team promise new delves, public dungeons, or story based material. I didn't purchase the new chapter because all I heard promised was two dungeons and a trial. Group play.

The "chapter" this year includes the same 6 delves and 2 public dungeons. 3 delves and 1 public dungeon are available right now (been there, done them). The rest will be accessible when the wall that divides the island is destroyed (quarter 4 update I think). At least that is what I heard. The zone is definitely much smaller (which is very sad), but it does have all the side quests and the main story.

shadoza wrote: »

I think the people who complain about needing more difficulty are the same players that farm in newb zones like Bal Foyen. I saw two there this day each were over 2800 CP. They were not doing a quest, they were racing from one resource node to another, completing with low levels and each other. One of the two worked the same area for more than 20 minutes so it wasn't a casual find.

Farming is a traditional part of MMOs. Nothing is wrong with that. Those 2800 CP also bought the game and have the right to all the zones. If you were seeing bots then that would warrant a complaint for sure. For context: I just created my first toon on PCEU a couple of days ago. Very slow at everything (drives me nuts), but I did not have any issues with finding resources/competing with someone (and at this stage with an empty craft bag I collect everything that is not nailed down).

So you dismiss my experience and use your own to support your claim? Is that what you are doing here.

My recent experience was included to highlight that I'm talking not only from the perspective of a high CP player but also as a kind of a "new" one. I put new in quotation marks because it's new in a sense that I have an empty craft bag, no movement speed, no CP, and no money, but I do have experience and knowledge where to get those. But you also have it since you've been playing longer than I do if I remember correctly from your posts.

My experience does not change the fact that farming is a part of any MMO, and 2800 CP player have a right to be in starter zones. If they are collecting staff without purposefully targeting you (as in swiping a node directly from under you or grabbing a chest near which you've been fighting mobs) then they are playing the game just like you. If they are doing what I described in () then it has nothing to with them being high CP, it's just their personal trait.

Kyip wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Fair question. Caveat of "this is still in development" but part of this feature will include proper incentives to opting into more difficult content, without making it feel like you are being punished for not doing it.

Hi. I have a question. What can you tell us about the incentives for opting into this more difficult overland content?

I'm glad you are doing this for the people who want it, and I understand that incentives will of course be part of it. I hope it's just better gear (quality, sets, etc), which is what people who want more difficult content would in theory prefer. I hope it's not cosmetics. Because that has been really, really frustrating in the past, forcing casual players into content they do not like.

Let me give you an example. Right now you have cosmetics in Cyrodiil locked behind doing 50 daily Conquest quests for the special currency. This is utterly unattainable for me, personally. I understand that some things like the bear mount are a status symbol for the people who can get it. I have no problem with that. What I want, that I cannot get, is a Hircine 'skin' cosmetic that happens to also darken the base skin tone. I want it to adjust my Bosmer's skin tone to be a little darker, since that option is unavailable from character selection. I tried doing Cyro for it, but that part of the game is just... stressful and unpleasant for me, personally. Again, great for people who enjoy it. But locking what is functionally an accessibility cosmetic there really sucks.

As much as I hope the higher difficulty of overland content would only be item quality or set gear or other things that help people who want harder content... I have to assume it will also include cosmetics because that is kinda what ESO historically does for all kinds of harder content.

Thank you for reading. I hope you can tell us as much as possible about this. Edited to place my question upfront.

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Not inclusive. Where is the RPG players, the solo runners, the base new players in all these grand plans to appease the power happy? When was the last time you heard the development team promise new delves, public dungeons, or story based material. I didn't purchase the new chapter because all I heard promised was two dungeons and a trial. Group play.

The "chapter" this year includes the same 6 delves and 2 public dungeons. 3 delves and 1 public dungeon are available right now (been there, done them). The rest will be accessible when the wall that divides the island is destroyed (quarter 4 update I think). At least that is what I heard. The zone is definitely much smaller (which is very sad), but it does have all the side quests and the main story.

shadoza wrote: »

I think the people who complain about needing more difficulty are the same players that farm in newb zones like Bal Foyen. I saw two there this day each were over 2800 CP. They were not doing a quest, they were racing from one resource node to another, completing with low levels and each other. One of the two worked the same area for more than 20 minutes so it wasn't a casual find.

Farming is a traditional part of MMOs. Nothing is wrong with that. Those 2800 CP also bought the game and have the right to all the zones. If you were seeing bots then that would warrant a complaint for sure. For context: I just created my first toon on PCEU a couple of days ago. Very slow at everything (drives me nuts), but I did not have any issues with finding resources/competing with someone (and at this stage with an empty craft bag I collect everything that is not nailed down).

So you dismiss my experience and use your own to support your claim? Is that what you are doing here.

My recent experience was included to highlight that I'm talking not only from the perspective of a high CP player but also as a kind of a "new" one. I put new in quotation marks because it's new in a sense that I have an empty craft bag, no movement speed, no CP, and no money, but I do have experience and knowledge where to get those. But you also have it since you've been playing longer than I do if I remember correctly from your posts.

My experience does not change the fact that farming is a part of any MMO, and 2800 CP player have a right to be in starter zones. If they are collecting staff without purposefully targeting you (as in swiping a node directly from under you or grabbing a chest near which you've been fighting mobs) then they are playing the game just like you. If they are doing what I described in () then it has nothing to with them being high CP, it's just their personal trait.

And what's even more ridiculous about this point is that it seems to act as if farmers are terrorizing these zones. As if they're all over the place and it's some farming nightmare wherever you go. Farming is a very specific activity and if you're going to be farming, you're almost certainly going to be in specific areas that are kind of built for it. You're going to have an idea of where to go and what to do. Farming is employed by people who want power fast, and those are the kind of people who will look up a guide which tells them where to be when doing it. This is a non-issue.

It may be a 'non-issue' to you, but to those whose progress in the game is being delayed or thwarted, it is an issue.
What party of Massive Multiplayer Online says "farming?" I do not hold issues with players picking up resources as the find them but that is not what they were doing. Farming is not the simple act of collecting resources as you find them. Farming is a deliberate and willful movement to grab resources to sell.

You can dismiss it in your world but in the real world, it is a problem when base gamers cannot play without being interfered with. This is a reason why people move on to other games. What you suggest is that if a new player needs a resource to create a weapon or armor part, they should stand about for 20+ minutes while a 2800 CP player moved around the area collecting resources as they spawn at a speed a newb cannot match. It was not a bot. It was a rude player who could have easily collected those resources in a more competitive zone.

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Not inclusive. Where is the RPG players, the solo runners, the base new players in all these grand plans to appease the power happy? When was the last time you heard the development team promise new delves, public dungeons, or story based material. I didn't purchase the new chapter because all I heard promised was two dungeons and a trial. Group play.

The "chapter" this year includes the same 6 delves and 2 public dungeons. 3 delves and 1 public dungeon are available right now (been there, done them). The rest will be accessible when the wall that divides the island is destroyed (quarter 4 update I think). At least that is what I heard. The zone is definitely much smaller (which is very sad), but it does have all the side quests and the main story.

shadoza wrote: »

I think the people who complain about needing more difficulty are the same players that farm in newb zones like Bal Foyen. I saw two there this day each were over 2800 CP. They were not doing a quest, they were racing from one resource node to another, completing with low levels and each other. One of the two worked the same area for more than 20 minutes so it wasn't a casual find.

Farming is a traditional part of MMOs. Nothing is wrong with that. Those 2800 CP also bought the game and have the right to all the zones. If you were seeing bots then that would warrant a complaint for sure. For context: I just created my first toon on PCEU a couple of days ago. Very slow at everything (drives me nuts), but I did not have any issues with finding resources/competing with someone (and at this stage with an empty craft bag I collect everything that is not nailed down).

So you dismiss my experience and use your own to support your claim? Is that what you are doing here.

My recent experience was included to highlight that I'm talking not only from the perspective of a high CP player but also as a kind of a "new" one. I put new in quotation marks because it's new in a sense that I have an empty craft bag, no movement speed, no CP, and no money, but I do have experience and knowledge where to get those. But you also have it since you've been playing longer than I do if I remember correctly from your posts.

My experience does not change the fact that farming is a part of any MMO, and 2800 CP player have a right to be in starter zones. If they are collecting staff without purposefully targeting you (as in swiping a node directly from under you or grabbing a chest near which you've been fighting mobs) then they are playing the game just like you. If they are doing what I described in () then it has nothing to with them being high CP, it's just their personal trait.

And what's even more ridiculous about this point is that it seems to act as if farmers are terrorizing these zones. As if they're all over the place and it's some farming nightmare wherever you go. Farming is a very specific activity and if you're going to be farming, you're almost certainly going to be in specific areas that are kind of built for it. You're going to have an idea of where to go and what to do. Farming is employed by people who want power fast, and those are the kind of people who will look up a guide which tells them where to be when doing it. This is a non-issue.

It may be a 'non-issue' to you, but to those whose progress in the game is being delayed or thwarted, it is an issue.
What party of Massive Multiplayer Online says "farming?" I do not hold issues with players picking up resources as the find them but that is not what they were doing. Farming is not the simple act of collecting resources as you find them. Farming is a deliberate and willful movement to grab resources to sell.

You can dismiss it in your world but in the real world, it is a problem when base gamers cannot play without being interfered with. This is a reason why people move on to other games. What you suggest is that if a new player needs a resource to create a weapon or armor part, they should stand about for 20+ minutes while a 2800 CP player moved around the area collecting resources as they spawn at a speed a newb cannot match. It was not a bot. It was a rude player who could have easily collected those resources in a more competitive zone.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We don't want to exclude anyone with this feature, and I'd like to reiterate the core values that Finn mentioned during the AMA:

• This will be optional and no one will be forced into it
• There will be varied levels of difficulty players can opt into
• We will NOT be separating players

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Fair question. Caveat of "this is still in development" but part of this feature will include proper incentives to opting into more difficult content, without making it feel like you are being punished for not doing it.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We don't want to exclude anyone with this feature, and I'd like to reiterate the core values that Finn mentioned during the AMA:

• This will be optional and no one will be forced into it
• There will be varied levels of difficulty players can opt into
• We will NOT be separating players

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Fair question. Caveat of "this is still in development" but part of this feature will include proper incentives to opting into more difficult content, without making it feel like you are being punished for not doing it.

Just a reminder these are what they said will happen besides just working on it.

While I recognize that those statements increased the excitement level for many. We've got to keep in mind that they're still ambiguous in the sense that it represents the intended goal and not necessarily a guaranteed result. Regardless how genuine that intent may be.

During the same AUA, there was the occasional "That's what we wanted going in, but.." answers when asked about other things that didn't pan out quite right.

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not vindictive to not want players to have a free reign to change their difficulty choices multiple times a day to gain advantages. I suggested a token being required to change difficulty but a once a day cooldown would also help.

I can imagine a player seeing others fighting a world boss, so they crank up their difficulty and jump in to get the better rewards. Then they see another player gathering mats and they want to also gather mats, so they turn down their difficulty and start gathering mats faster. That is manipulating the system for advantages in my opinion and should be prevented.

SilverBride wrote: »

As I stated above, I feel being able to turn difficulty on and off multiple times a day at will could lead to manipulating the system for advantage. This was the example I gave for what I could see happening:

"I can imagine a player seeing others fighting a world boss, so they crank up their difficulty and jump in to get the better rewards. Then they see another player gathering mats and they want to also gather mats, so they turn down their difficulty and start gathering mats faster. That is manipulating the system for advantages in my opinion and should be prevented."

This also negates the whole reason for wanting more difficulty in the first place, which was often stated as immersion and feeling the bosses weren't really a threat, and overland mobs weren't a threat, etc., so why turn it off?

@ZOS_GinaBruno Are there going to be any restrictions to how often players can change their difficulty, such as cooldowns, to prevent this type of action?

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not vindictive to not want players to have a free reign to change their difficulty choices multiple times a day to gain advantages. I suggested a token being required to change difficulty but a once a day cooldown would also help.

I can imagine a player seeing others fighting a world boss, so they crank up their difficulty and jump in to get the better rewards. Then they see another player gathering mats and they want to also gather mats, so they turn down their difficulty and start gathering mats faster. That is manipulating the system for advantages in my opinion and should be prevented.

I dont get it. Itat isnt abuse, That literally exactly the point of higher difficulty. Easy mat farming, hard bosses, or whatever. Theres no unfair advantage because everyone has access to that setting.

SilverBride wrote: »

As I stated above, I feel being able to turn difficulty on and off multiple times a day at will could lead to manipulating the system for advantage. This was the example I gave for what I could see happening:

"I can imagine a player seeing others fighting a world boss, so they crank up their difficulty and jump in to get the better rewards. Then they see another player gathering mats and they want to also gather mats, so they turn down their difficulty and start gathering mats faster. That is manipulating the system for advantages in my opinion and should be prevented."

This also negates the whole reason for wanting more difficulty in the first place, which was often stated as immersion and feeling the bosses weren't really a threat, and overland mobs weren't a threat, etc., so why turn it off?

@ZOS_GinaBruno Are there going to be any restrictions to how often players can change their difficulty, such as cooldowns, to prevent this type of action?

I dont get it. That isnt abuse, That literally exactly the point of higher difficulty. Easy mat farming, hard bosses, or whatever. Theres no unfair advantage because everyone has access to that setting. And better rewards for harder content is Everywhere in the game already, i can spam vet trials and random vets as much as i want.

And no cooldowns.That stupid cp change one still drives me nuts, makes predefining builds in wizards so damn annoying.

Are people who think this way the only ones who tag Gina, etc? Explains alot.

SilverBride wrote: »

This is interesting.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682963/overland-challenger-an-addon-that-challenges-you#latest

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think a customer should be worse off just because they wanted to enjoy the story. Everyone should be able to enjoy an experience that is fun and rewarding. I hope devs consider that vet players don't deserve to be punished for wanting to enjoy a story. That enabling the feature shouldn't feel like you're doing something bad to your account. That it should not put you at a disadvantage to other players that choose not to use this feature.

I should be able to actually enjoy the story of the defeat of the Ascendant Lord and do my crafting writs at the exact same pace as everyone else is doing it and that I have always done it. Equality is not abuse.

I am curious how it can be called equality when your description offers more game play, an added layer, without anything being taken away. Are you not getting more game for your buck if you are allowed to use high difficult and base difficult both? What is offered to base players (those that do not power level themselves into boredom) to balance that extra layer of game play? Seems to me that you are not wanting overland to be challenging but rather want only certain attributes to be more challenging so you can get more power. Am I wrong. Will new vet group dungeons or trials not answer your need for power?