Normal for Gray Host now?

Lumenn · August 9

I've recently came back to the game, and during the event of course there were long que times(Xbox na) but tonight I actually had some extra time and played about 3-8(central) and AD on a Friday night was often only two bars. Could change characters without que times. Seemed....odd to what it used to be even a year or two ago

Telel · August 9

TLDR: Yes that's normal. Remember to laugh.

It's pretty normal, and has been for a couple years now.

It's also normal for the majority of the AD population to be comprised of AFK bots, or trolls until prime time. A good chunk of the rest just want to leech AP and get very very toxic if they don't get carried.

Hamtaro help you if you try to lead a PUG group during the hours all that is happening.

It's also normal for certain groups of 'pro high skill' people on EP to be openly assisting DC so they can score boost and look good on live stream. Or just because they're trolls trying to harrass other players for the crime of playing the same game as them.

The net effect being to pound down on anyone who wants to do more than PVDoor, and farm level 10s.

Fortunately once or twice a year AD something will shift and AD will win a gray host campaign. Often two.

Sadly the trolls who hate good fights tend to double down on their antics when that happens. Usually at fare lumber mill.

Something some people on EP seem quite pleased with live streaming. Often with commentary about how that makes them 'top tier' even as they're effectively helping DC gate camp an effectively dead map.

Fortunately that just means we all get to laugh at them for being such desperate sweaty scrubs. Especially when they flee in terror from yet another DC emperor and his fifty five closest friends. Preferring instead to instead show all the bravey and skill one expects of a baby seal clubber.

Lumenn · August 9

Ah, well I never liked the "games" being played but I know I left playing cyro regular with the bash/powerslam nerf done to "help" a nitch build being my personal straw but I suppose it makes sense others would leave over the last couple years for various reasons. Was just odd seeing GH empty on a Friday night.

Telel · August 9

[Snip]

There's been a few folks who've been stalking people in cyrodiil lately and engaging in score boosting. I even have old clips going back over six years showing them scroll trolling only to then try to get people banned by claiming another person did it. They're now working with a 'streamer' (I'm not allowed to name) who runs on EP helping DC gate camp. XD

I can even share the clips of it all, and have begun putting them up on youtube in the hope ZOS may finally deal with the people who are bullying their customers. But...eh...if you've been here since day one you may remember how they react to such things. [Snip]

Still though. If you want to play PVP on hard mode, and can either play on your own and or work with others AD PVP is a lot of fun.

Just get ready to be frustrated at the purple scrubs, and all the 'solo AD' who sit in clumps waiting to be carried. Which is why it's important that you remember to laugh.

[Edited for Conspiracy Theories/Misinformation]

KiltMaster · August 10

People may be taking a short break from the mayhem event. Any time I go to play on eastern time, weekend prime time (6pm - 11pm) there's always a queue.

Lumenn · August 10

KiltMaster wrote: »

People may be taking a short break from the mayhem event. Any time I go to play on eastern time, weekend prime time (6pm - 11pm) there's always a queue.

I'll be honest, event fatigue never crossed my mind(probably because I was having fun during the event)

xylena_lazarow · August 10

People are waiting for Vengeance.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 11

KiltMaster wrote: »

People may be taking a short break from the mayhem event. Any time I go to play on eastern time, weekend prime time (6pm - 11pm) there's always a queue.

Assuming you play AD, that will be why. AD has the most groups that run the most often during primetime and out of hours. So generally if these groups are playing you're going to have a population of 40+ people all trying to be in the campaign to play together.
They just don't have as big pug population because all of the pugs have been cannibalised into those various groups.

For example it's very common when fighting AD to see 3+ 12m groups all running in exactly the same place (frontline) and even if you push a back keep they will all come to fight you there rather than spreading out.

Ironically only the main 'pug' group which runs 24m regularly spreads away from the frontline because they prefer to dig holes in the backline keeps uncontested instead.

Urzigurumash · August 11

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

People may be taking a short break from the mayhem event. Any time I go to play on eastern time, weekend prime time (6pm - 11pm) there's always a queue.

Assuming you play AD, that will be why. AD has the most groups that run the most often during primetime and out of hours. So generally if these groups are playing you're going to have a population of 40+ people all trying to be in the campaign to play together.
They just don't have as big pug population because all of the pugs have been cannibalised into those various groups.

For example it's very common when fighting AD to see 3+ 12m groups all running in exactly the same place (frontline) and even if you push a back keep they will all come to fight you there rather than spreading out.

Ironically only the main 'pug' group which runs 24m regularly spreads away from the frontline because they prefer to dig holes in the backline keeps uncontested instead.

This is about Xbox NA, sadly AD has no groups, we just run around waiting to be farmed by a Rush of Agony or three.

We've been the punching bag of Team Purple for years now. When was the last time we won a camp @Lumenn?

Anyhow, delete RoA, nerf VD.

Urzigurumash · August 11

And I doubt anyone is waiting for Vengeance on Xbox. I'm not sure anyone has a clue whether it's coming back for us, is it?

CatoUnchained · August 11

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

People are waiting for Vengeance.

Ya, and if it goes live in a mandated fashion, most of the rest of us PvP mains will never come back to ESO.

amiiegee · August 12

Lumenn wrote: »

I've recently came back to the game, and during the event of course there were long que times(Xbox na) but tonight I actually had some extra time and played about 3-8(central) and AD on a Friday night was often only two bars. Could change characters without que times. Seemed....odd to what it used to be even a year or two ago

Normal till zos finally decides to bring crossplay. PS EU is the same

Lumenn · August 12

amiiegee wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

I've recently came back to the game, and during the event of course there were long que times(Xbox na) but tonight I actually had some extra time and played about 3-8(central) and AD on a Friday night was often only two bars. Could change characters without que times. Seemed....odd to what it used to be even a year or two ago

Normal till zos finally decides to bring crossplay. PS EU is the same

Cross play for consoles only? Or pc plus consoles.

Edit: I see there is already a discussion regarding the pros and cons on that particular subject)

xylena_lazarow · August 12

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Ya, and if it goes live in a mandated fashion, most of the rest of us PvP mains will never come back to ESO.

They're already not coming back.

Stridig · August 12

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

People are waiting for Vengeance.

Only the ones who want a PvE Cyrodiil. PvPers want some changes, but not Vengeance.

MincMincMinc · August 12

Always funny that people try to speak for all pvpers and adamantly defend live over vengeance. Meanwhile 90% of the pvp population has left the game because of live combat.

Urzigurumash · August 13

I looked it up, on Xbox NA we had 10 days of Vengeance during the 4th of July week and that's it. I dont think it would be popular. Nerfing RoA and VD would be tho👍

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 13

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Always funny that people try to speak for all pvpers and adamantly defend live over vengeance. Meanwhile 90% of the pvp population has left the game because of live combat.

You might not want to call out people for speaking for others and then also try and speak for others about why they stopped playing.

For example A lot of players stopped playing because group sizes were nerfed from 24 to 12 leading to multiple pug guilds and some more comp focused groups quitting.

A lot of others left because the performance got to the stage where the combat didn't work the majority of the time (even if the combat was fun when it worked).

And a lot left because it got harder to play as a casual group and way easier to play as a hardcore group - players that didn't want to put in the effort were more heavily punished for this and chose to quit instead of being farmed. (in the past it was easier to 'outnumber' your opponent and kill them whilst playing more casually, mainly because of the group size and also combat mechanics related).

Now I would agree that combat is in a poor state and has been for a long time.

The synergy meta was actually more enjoyable because it had more counterplay and longer dmg cooldowns but it did also get stale after being in the game for so long.

MincMincMinc · August 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Always funny that people try to speak for all pvpers and adamantly defend live over vengeance. Meanwhile 90% of the pvp population has left the game because of live combat.

You might not want to call out people for speaking for others and then also try and speak for others about why they stopped playing.

For example A lot of players stopped playing because group sizes were nerfed from 24 to 12 leading to multiple pug guilds and some more comp focused groups quitting.

A lot of others left because the performance got to the stage where the combat didn't work the majority of the time (even if the combat was fun when it worked).

And a lot left because it got harder to play as a casual group and way easier to play as a hardcore group - players that didn't want to put in the effort were more heavily punished for this and chose to quit instead of being farmed. (in the past it was easier to 'outnumber' your opponent and kill them whilst playing more casually, mainly because of the group size and also combat mechanics related).

Now I would agree that combat is in a poor state and has been for a long time.

The synergy meta was actually more enjoyable because it had more counterplay and longer dmg cooldowns but it did also get stale after being in the game for so long.

Fair point although I would encompass all of those under being live combat issues. Its not like the main issue for pvp players has been crown store items. The main issue since like 2016/17 that makes PvPers give up on the game has always been combat being dysfunctional.

I would agree, atleast with the synergy meta there was some level of timing and communication. Now you have these groups just innately strong stat wise with sets that make them stronger exponentially.

Again the Rallyingcry Group set issue:

A solo player gets 2x 5 piece bonuses worth of stats (hundings and impreg)
A ballgroup of 10x running these sets gets half of rallyingcry which comes out to 10players x10effects x 1x 5 piece bonuses == 100x 5 piece bonuses
A casual group of 10 players running a generic set equal to 1x 5 piece bonus == 10x 5 piece bonuses

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 13

Personally I think there are way more broken sets than rallying cry. For example Recovery Convergence which is somehow being buffed next patch. I guess they didn't sell enough season passes

MincMincMinc · August 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Personally I think there are way more broken sets than rallying cry. For example Recovery Convergence which is somehow being buffed next patch. I guess they didn't sell enough season passes

Yeah riddle me this. How is one part of the combat team pushing for vengeance testing and we need to cut the fat and complicated code out of the game............. Then the other part of the combat team is coming up with more and more sets or skills like that. Seriously how many parts does that one set have?

Recovery Convergence:

Checks for in combat, don't worry you are always in combat because there are no blanket purge mechanics in the game
Checks for overhealing
Builds up stacks to 100khp, does this check group overheals?
Gives a self synergy which can lead to more checks
Triggers synergy passives which can lead to more checks
Then it does an Aoe check for group members
Then it gives resources which can lead to more checks for the whole group
Then it has a cooldown mechanic

Yeah, again I can't imagine why there are server performance issues.

xylena_lazarow · August 13

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Yeah riddle me this. How is one part of the combat team pushing for vengeance testing ... Then the other part of the combat team is coming up with more and more sets or skills like that.

The PvP side is probably all-in on Vengeance at this point. Build PvP just gets worse and worse, they know damn well it isn't a couple "simple" silver bullets away, like the forum defenders seem to think.

Putting so much effort into reworking Rushing Agony with new animations and mechanics just to preserve the idiotic double stun effect... with Vengeance about to render the investment moot... now that's a good riddle.

Urzigurumash · August 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Always funny that people try to speak for all pvpers and adamantly defend live over vengeance. Meanwhile 90% of the pvp population has left the game because of live combat.

You might not want to call out people for speaking for others and then also try and speak for others about why they stopped playing.

For example A lot of players stopped playing because group sizes were nerfed from 24 to 12 leading to multiple pug guilds and some more comp focused groups quitting.

A lot of others left because the performance got to the stage where the combat didn't work the majority of the time (even if the combat was fun when it worked).

And a lot left because it got harder to play as a casual group and way easier to play as a hardcore group - players that didn't want to put in the effort were more heavily punished for this and chose to quit instead of being farmed. (in the past it was easier to 'outnumber' your opponent and kill them whilst playing more casually, mainly because of the group size and also combat mechanics related).

Now I would agree that combat is in a poor state and has been for a long time.

The synergy meta was actually more enjoyable because it had more counterplay and longer dmg cooldowns but it did also get stale after being in the game for so long.

This is absolutely the reason GH has fell off imo. Not only did solo and pugging become impossible but even hanging on the hardcore level required a different class with all new gear and new bar layouts every 3 months.

For what again, 5 purple rings?

Urzigurumash · August 13

Thats why I'm saying Nerf VD.

"We hate zergs, we hate noobs"

Sure well find a way to take it out on them that doesnt make them quit.

VD has gone beyond anti zerg, it's Anti Cyrodiil.

xylena_lazarow · August 13

Urzigurumash wrote: »

"We hate zergs, we hate noobs"

Drive away 90% of the player base so 12 guys can have a power fantasy? That's a dead game. As much as I hated seeing ground oils go back in 2014, I still had to admit there's no way the game could survive if 1 sweaty player abusing weird mechanics could solo wipe an entire 24 raid.

Yet here we are with 12 guys stomping 60+ by abusing weird mechanics the 60+ don't understand, and the game is dead. Who would've thought. It was also a huge mistake to cater to the "we hate siege" crowd because balanced siege engines would be exactly how smaller zergs beat bigger zergs or ball groups, ground oils did that a bit too well.

Catering to comp groups also made winning about outside-game logistics more than on-field combat prowess, yet another major misread on the type of players attracted to Cyrodiil. Casuals and sweaties alike loved the power fantasy they saw in those 1vX vamp mdk demigods back in 2014, the whole group comp thing was niche to serious GvG.

Urzigurumash · August 13

Well said. Sadly we never had ground oils, but on Xbox I am sure for most players the allure to Cyrodiil was 2 things, zerg vs zerg like a Skyrim Battlefront, and Trebuchet vs Tower, not smallscale Instagibbing, people play CoD for that, not timing insane combos, we have Soul Cal for that. Also Xbox is kind of a Solo / Pug based format in general.

Of course a new culture of smallscale play arose on Xbox, and we all happily participated in that, but each year it became harder and harder for casual players to participate, right now it's basically get in a RoA VD group or queue up for solo BGs if you wanna have fun.

xylena_lazarow · August 14

Urzigurumash wrote: »

not smallscale Instagibbing, people play CoD for that, not timing insane combos, we have Soul Cal for that

Seems like competitive ESO attracts some players who couldn't hack it in those games, like beating your opponents by cheesing broken mechanics is the appeal of casual PvP with a build system, over a ranked esport. It burns me out to fight against that crap so much, even more when I realize how many of my wins are just me doing it myself.

Urzigurumash · August 14

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

not smallscale Instagibbing, people play CoD for that, not timing insane combos, we have Soul Cal for that

Seems like competitive ESO attracts some players who couldn't hack it in those games, like beating your opponents by cheesing broken mechanics is the appeal of casual PvP with a build system, over a ranked esport. It burns me out to fight against that crap so much, even more when I realize how many of my wins are just me doing it myself.

Totally, great observation, guilty as charged! I just wanna use the SAME cheese I always did and not have to relearn every 3 months.

Dueling and BGs still provide a nice alternative to FPS and Fighting Games. Cyrodiil was amazing in that it offered those PLUS territorial conquest in an action format rather than strategy. For me and others on Xbox Cyro was a fantastic casual respite from the hardcore king of action based territorial conquest, you know the one with the dinosaurs that rhymes with Bark. The Officials there are less casual than most jobs. Way less.

But to me the Action Meta translates into the Territorial Conquest experience, basically there's just no stopping the side with the tightest 12 man. They sweep Emp, get the Hammer, and that's the game.

I'll defer to others on the millions of ideas for improving the Map Game, I feel it's all moot until the rampaging unstoppable Ballgroup problem is solved for the casual masses.

Healstacking healstacking yeah we know, but they have stopping power too, time to let the zerg have some fun, nerf VD !

xylena_lazarow · August 14

Urzigurumash wrote: »

I feel it's all moot until the rampaging unstoppable Ballgroup problem is solved for the casual masses.

There's the behavior angle too which doesn't get talked about enough, avoiding objectives to hold a keep hostage for "pug farming" is rewarded by the AP system, kill counter addon, and glorified by certain players as "real pvp not siege" or similar sentiment. Forget player opinions a sec, can't imagine that's what the devs intended for the large scale play loop.

It might be moot with Vengeance upcoming, which figures to kill off what's left of build PvP.

xFocused · August 14

Seeing a lot of comments on why population fell off, why veteran players quit and so forth..here’s my take as someone who has been playing PvP for a long time now

They killed 24 man groups that catered to a lot of the casual, solo players. In its place, we now have comped 12 man and small scale groups that spam RoA with their 50k health while being able to wipe entire keeps and servers with ease. There’s hardly any counter unless you can coordinate with other solos or get a lucky bomb off. Siege is now apparently useless

You spend most of the time stuck in combat missing out on fights.

Rewards are mid at best. The extra transmutes are nice but that’s really about it. I no longer have the fear of missing out for some blue and purple gear I already have.

You have to follow the meta or you’ll most likely struggle. Unlike PvE, you can’t really build something just for fun or themed unless you want to be one shotted constantly.

Speaking of one shots, why are some builds able to run 50k health, tank an entire bar of enemies and still one shot those same players with ease? It’s so incredibly unbalanced.

I love this game, love Cyrodiil but it needs a drastic overhaul badly. Nothing and I mean nothing is even close to being considered balanced. It’s still so full of laggy bugs and broken mechanics that it’s not even worth logging in anymore

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 15

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

I feel it's all moot until the rampaging unstoppable Ballgroup problem is solved for the casual masses.

There's the behavior angle too which doesn't get talked about enough, avoiding objectives to hold a keep hostage for "pug farming" is rewarded by the AP system, kill counter addon, and glorified by certain players as "real pvp not siege" or similar sentiment. Forget player opinions a sec, can't imagine that's what the devs intended for the large scale play loop.

It might be moot with Vengeance upcoming, which figures to kill off what's left of build PvP.

I think the behaviour of holding / farming inside a keep is actually valid in terms of the largescale combat that was initially designed for ESO.

Backline distractions are a key part of spreading players out.

The problem is that the population is now so low that in comparison to group size (along with the combat mechanics we have now skewed even more heavily in favour of groups) it's not really viable to send a proportionate amount of players to deal with the backline whilst you hold both front lines - there just aren't enough players (or fights).