Normal for Gray Host now?

MincMincMinc

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

I feel it's all moot until the rampaging unstoppable Ballgroup problem is solved for the casual masses.

There's the behavior angle too which doesn't get talked about enough, avoiding objectives to hold a keep hostage for "pug farming" is rewarded by the AP system, kill counter addon, and glorified by certain players as "real pvp not siege" or similar sentiment. Forget player opinions a sec, can't imagine that's what the devs intended for the large scale play loop.

It might be moot with Vengeance upcoming, which figures to kill off what's left of build PvP.

I think the behaviour of holding / farming inside a keep is actually valid in terms of the largescale combat that was initially designed for ESO.

Backline distractions are a key part of spreading players out.

The problem is that the population is now so low that in comparison to group size (along with the combat mechanics we have now skewed even more heavily in favour of groups) it's not really viable to send a proportionate amount of players to deal with the backline whilst you hold both front lines - there just aren't enough players (or fights).

Remember when it was groups of 5-10 were smallscale fighting groups of 80+ in keeps. Now adays these people in groups of 12 as ballgroups try to pass it off with 100x the stats vs a group of 24 is challenging.

xylena_lazarow

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the behaviour of holding / farming inside a keep is actually valid in terms of the largescale combat that was initially designed for ESO.

The problem is that the population is now so low that in comparison to group size

Early on it was a ton of fun scouting back lines for comp groups like DiE and NM and rallying a zerg of randoms to fight them, or coordinating my ephs group in zone with Havoc and zergers on EP, it was a different game culture then.

Now the remaining ball groups know damn well the pop is too low and pugs don't have 24 mans, the balls have zero intent of doing anything other than repeatedly stomping pugs that they know can't realistically fight back.

MISTFORMBZZZ

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

I think the behaviour of holding / farming inside a keep is actually valid in terms of the largescale combat that was initially designed for ESO.

The problem is that the population is now so low that in comparison to group size

Early on it was a ton of fun scouting back lines for comp groups like DiE and NM and rallying a zerg of randoms to fight them, or coordinating my ephs group in zone with Havoc and zergers on EP, it was a different game culture then.

Now the remaining ball groups know damn well the pop is too low and pugs don't have 24 mans, the balls have zero intent of doing anything other than repeatedly stomping pugs that they know can't realistically fight back.

Sounds like thats a your server problem. Know what would fix that ? Crossplay. I know the ball groups on PS EU are thirsty and specially since we have addons like higher camera sensitivity i dont see a reason why we wouldnt be able to keep up with our big pc brothers and sisters anymore

xylena_lazarow

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Sounds like thats a your server problem

Crossplay would've been awesome but I'm pretty sure PC/NA is the biggest remaining server, and my point was more that comp groups were fun to fight in 2014, but pretty miserable in 2025 and Crossplay won't change that. When players would rather quit the game than git gud, that's on the devs to make a better game, not the players to suck it up.

MincMincMinc

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Sounds like thats a your server problem

Crossplay would've been awesome but I'm pretty sure PC/NA is the biggest remaining server, and my point was more that comp groups were fun to fight in 2014, but pretty miserable in 2025 and Crossplay won't change that. When players would rather quit the game than git gud, that's on the devs to make a better game, not the players to suck it up.

I think its just that comp groups have dwindled down the same path as solo gamplay.

Earlier on eso was more about weaving and proper skill use. Killing a player was more about breaking them down. Then as zos had to continue to make quota releases the game just ballooned and kept overlapping more proc effects one after another. Eventually going from just monster proc effects to 5 piece builds to double 5 piece builds and now with mythics or weapons we are at 4 proc effect bonuses. Now even skills are being bloated up to do multiple paragraphs of effects. Back in 2014 I didnt have to visit 4 different wiki pages to figure out how a skill worked with proc chances and status effects and offbalance and......etc

Group combat now adays is the same thing except just hitting 100x the calculations on the server because of the stacking mechanics.

xylena_lazarow

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I think its just that comp groups have dwindled down the same path as solo gamplay.

Definitely, players dwindle as the game becomes more about knowledge and prep than prowess on the field. Smallscale has reduced to weighted coin flips. Ball groups optimize a spreadsheet that pretty much plays itself.

MincMincMinc

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I think its just that comp groups have dwindled down the same path as solo gamplay.

Definitely, players dwindle as the game becomes more about knowledge and prep than prowess on the field. Smallscale has reduced to weighted coin flips. Ball groups optimize a spreadsheet that pretty much plays itself.

like its not even a contest anymore its just simple math. Lets look at Rallying cry for an example. Or any group set that gives 300wd to every player

A solo player gets 300wd

A Pug zerg of random sets run generic builds each with 300 each times 24 players so lets say 7.2kwd

A 12 man ballgroup all giving each other unique 300wd sources..... so 300 on 12 players times 12 players = 43kwd

The point of smallman and ballgrouping before was to win while outnumbered against the odds.....well now you are essentially just the actual zerg with 5-10x the numbers. Except you are lagging out the server far worse than before.