Warden Class Script Charm (PVP only)

danko355 · August 11

Interesting to see what others think about Charm in PVP. Personally, I think it’s massively over-performing right now, to the point where Warden has become the clear #1 base class for PvP. Just keep Animal Companion and pick 2 other lines based on your requirements, and you don’t even have to run a dedicated stun because Charm covers that role too.

Take a look at this skill:

Essentially, you get one of the best burst heals in the game PLUS aoe 70% root PLUS aoe stun PLUS any cool Major/Minor buff (Vitality, Sorcery, etc.) PLUS a huge resource refund if no enemies are charmed.
This is effectively better than TWO of Nightblade's skills combined, Mass Hysteria and Healthy Offering. Healthy Offering even has the same tooltip healing amount. In fact, Charm is arguably more dangerous than Mass Hysteria because you can prepare additional combo piece while waiting for the Charm, then burst your opponent down with multiple skills in the same GCD. Given this, why would anyone choose another class for PvP right now?

In addition to that, please take a look at these Patch Notes version 5.0.5:
Player abilities that fear targets will no longer cause them to flee in terror. Instead, they will now cower in terror, unable to move while feared. Note that this does not affect abilities that monsters can cast.
The devs explicitly acknowledged that the old fear mechanic was buggy, players would run into walls, trees, or the ground and get stuck, unable to move afterwards. This was bad enough that they removed the fleeing behavior entirely.
So why bring back the exact same mechanic with Charm?
I’ve already had multiple Battlegrounds ruined because Charm bugged out and sent me straight into wall, trapping me permanently. No movement, no way to free myself, not even to die and respawn. I’ve had to abandon at least five matches this way.

fufu_from_ps4 · August 11

you just gotta look for it on the ground. if there are a bunch of things on the ground it can be difficult, outside of that, its fairly easy to play around.

warden hits shalks, then they try to stun you with that, just roll thru them, you will dodge beetles and be out of the stuns range. once you do this a few times they get frustrated and start to play more aggressively, making it easier to kill them.

i dont think this needs a nerf.

the stacking of 50 buffs onto 1 skill is not healthy game design, but i tried to stop them from doing it. they dont listen.

YandereGirlfriend · August 11

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

Completely eliminate Charm from the game.

Erickson9610 · August 12

Other

Is the charm annoying to be the victim of? Yes. What am I supposed to do when I get hit with the RoA + Charm combo?

Is the charm fun to use and build around in PvP? Probably also yes. I haven't used it myself, so I don't know how fun it is to use.

Avran_Sylt · August 12

fufu_from_ps4 wrote: »

you just gotta look for it on the ground. if there are a bunch of things on the ground it can be difficult, outside of that, its fairly easy to play around.

warden hits shalks, then they try to stun you with that, just roll thru them, you will dodge beetles and be out of the stuns range. once you do this a few times they get frustrated and start to play more aggressively, making it easier to kill them.

i dont think this needs a nerf.

the stacking of 50 buffs onto 1 skill is not healthy game design, but i tried to stop them from doing it. they dont listen.

Wow so warden gets to deal attrition damage regardless (hitting a stun or making you roll-dodge out of the way) or get resources back. At least make the radius small enough that walking out of the center is a feasible option if the resource restore on "miss" is going to be so strong.

Mr_Jord_Joe · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

Charm should only work in PvE, after all in a scenario where a tank must pull nearby enemies, charm is more coherent in this situation, in pvp it should transform into a stun, it would avoid several bug problems, and desync...

Fetz · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

a stun instead as class mastery still makes it OP

ESO_Nightingale · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

I want this mastery completely reworked.

JohnRingo · August 12

PVP - Charm is completely fine in PVP

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

YandereGirlfriend · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

JohnRingo wrote: »

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

You don't need Charm for this.

Spamming a ballgroup with any combination of pulls, knockbacks, and Negates will inevitably accomplish this. Negates being the most important, the others only because they cause de-sync to ballgroup players, which is what truly gets them killed (ofc, if your intention is to de-sync someone then you're also likely treading close to the TOS...).

fufu_from_ps4 · August 12

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

fufu_from_ps4 wrote: »

you just gotta look for it on the ground. if there are a bunch of things on the ground it can be difficult, outside of that, its fairly easy to play around.

warden hits shalks, then they try to stun you with that, just roll thru them, you will dodge beetles and be out of the stuns range. once you do this a few times they get frustrated and start to play more aggressively, making it easier to kill them.

i dont think this needs a nerf.

the stacking of 50 buffs onto 1 skill is not healthy game design, but i tried to stop them from doing it. they dont listen.

Wow so warden gets to deal attrition damage regardless (hitting a stun or making you roll-dodge out of the way) or get resources back. At least make the radius small enough that walking out of the center is a feasible option if the resource restore on "miss" is going to be so strong.

im not entirely sure what you mean by attrition damage. the stamina cost of roll? you can walk into them if you prefer.

most sweats are running jabs with shalks, then they are using the scribe stun ALONG WITH javelin. they are slotting both of them. any range class is not going to stand in the stun. it takes 3 seconds to proc and is a large, noticable white aoe that swells before it pops. javelin is also quite easily avoided. also they are running the 2h ult, as a psuedo corrosive... so honestly its quite easy for me to pick this build apart.

why are they running javelin also? because range people will stay out of the warden charm. its useless so they're carrying two stuns and javelin is unreliable as well.

you could make a case that, in laggy gameplay and paired with rush of agony, its difficult to tell what is going on and then you die.... which is lame, but thats a seperate issue.... rush of agony is clearly broken.

the one thing i will agree with tho, is that sometimes its difficult to tell if you are stunned if you walk the same way you're being charmed, and its kinda janky.... true

but like if you're playing melee in pvp then you are either a warden or an arcanist. so you're either using the same stun, or you're relying on someone else to stun for you or a set or skill to pull groups.

when you compare it to other stuns it is lackluster. the jankyness makes up for its poor design, so people can make it work, but overall i feel like its pretty easy to avoid especially when compared to like fossilize/streak/fear.

JohnRingo · August 12

PVP - Charm is completely fine in PVP

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

JohnRingo wrote: »

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

You don't need Charm for this.

Spamming a ballgroup with any combination of pulls, knockbacks, and Negates will inevitably accomplish this. Negates being the most important, the others only because they cause de-sync to ballgroup players, which is what truly gets them killed (ofc, if your intention is to de-sync someone then you're also likely treading close to the TOS...).

Thank you for your opinion of the battle that I participated in however, I stand by my original comments. Given the scourge of Ball Groups generally I would think this is a reasonable observation.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

JohnRingo wrote: »

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

The only time a solo player's warden charm will ever be harmful vs a ball group is if it bugs someone into a wall. Otherwise you're just giving them free CC immunity stopping bombers from pulling them into a damage stack. The Destro knockback is far more annoying to deal with and also desyncs players so this would be a better skill to spam if anything.

Jestir · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

All the class masteries pretty much need to be reworked for one reason or another

kotisovich · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

JohnRingo wrote: »

Charm was a ball group breaker

JohnRingo · August 12

PVP - Charm is completely fine in PVP

kotisovich wrote: »

JohnRingo wrote: »

Charm was a ball group breaker

LMAO! Well played, sir.

BXR_Lonestar · August 12

PVP - Charm is completely fine in PVP

Honestly, Charm isn't really that big of a deal so long as you watch for it and break free when you see it. Where it shines is coordinated combat movements where someone comes in with a stun, charm, immobilize/snare all at once, but even if you get rid of charm, coordinated crowd control with a coordinated attack (and negate) is going to be deadly against ANYONE.

In terms of raw damage, I think you can argue that the Nightblade with its master class script is outperforming all other master scripts in terms of damage because of the current meta favoring crit damage.

Either way, I don't see that Warden or Nightblade scripts need a nerf - I think all other master scripts need to be buffed to be on this level. Outside of a very few, the master scripts are "meh."

MincMincMinc · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

Move charm to the warden green balance ultimate since it is that strong. Then just make the warden script a minor defile aoe to be on par with the ult gen script.

The_Meathead · August 12

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

Not trying to be that guy, but I feel like there's no way the people saying it's fine aren't either Wardens or playing purely ranged and not having to deal with it very often.

If you play primarily melee, it's gotten pretty problematic in BGs and it's a staple of small sweat groups and Ballgroups in Cyrodiil now too, working ridiculously well with Ulfsid's + ROA to extend a long period of lost control.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 12

It's inexcusable that they never fixed the issues of Charm/old Fear getting you stuck in terrain before bringing it back. Fix it.

danko355 · August 13

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

fufu_from_ps4 wrote: »

you just gotta look for it on the ground. if there are a bunch of things on the ground it can be difficult, outside of that, its fairly easy to play around.

warden hits shalks, then they try to stun you with that, just roll thru them, you will dodge beetles and be out of the stuns range. once you do this a few times they get frustrated and start to play more aggressively, making it easier to kill them.

i dont think this needs a nerf.

the stacking of 50 buffs onto 1 skill is not healthy game design, but i tried to stop them from doing it. they dont listen.

So your balance solution is basically “just play around the class script”? Meaning, roll-dodge every 8 seconds (as you most likely are 70% rooted)? So they either get free resources back AND a burst heal, and reset the fight if I dodge, or, if I’m a millisecond late thanks to desync, I still get charmed mid-roll and they run their kill combo.

That’s the balance? Either burn stamina and tempo constantly to counter one script on repeat, or eat the full control chain? What other class script in the game is so strong that you have to build your entire defensive rhythm around it every 8 seconds?

ApoAlaia · August 13

Other

They should change the behaviour of charm.

Charmed opponents should turn against their allies instead.

Also the 3s should start 'ticking' after engaging unless there aren't any allies to engage in a 28m+AvA bonus radius.

xylena_lazarow · August 13

Other

I don't find it hard to avoid/counter, but it should be a regular stun, not resurrecting Fear bugs they fixed 5 years ago.

fufu_from_ps4 · August 13

danko355 wrote: »

fufu_from_ps4 wrote: »

you just gotta look for it on the ground. if there are a bunch of things on the ground it can be difficult, outside of that, its fairly easy to play around.

warden hits shalks, then they try to stun you with that, just roll thru them, you will dodge beetles and be out of the stuns range. once you do this a few times they get frustrated and start to play more aggressively, making it easier to kill them.

i dont think this needs a nerf.

the stacking of 50 buffs onto 1 skill is not healthy game design, but i tried to stop them from doing it. they dont listen.

So your balance solution is basically “just play around the class script”? Meaning, roll-dodge every 8 seconds (as you most likely are 70% rooted)? So they either get free resources back AND a burst heal, and reset the fight if I dodge, or, if I’m a millisecond late thanks to desync, I still get charmed mid-roll and they run their kill combo.

That’s the balance? Either burn stamina and tempo constantly to counter one script on repeat, or eat the full control chain? What other class script in the game is so strong that you have to build your entire defensive rhythm around it every 8 seconds?

there are 2 stuns in the game that can be completely negated with little to no work. arcanist, you just block it. they have no stun essentially. this warden charm, you can LITERALLY walk out of it, never being stunned. there is no cost. i roll because i usually am fighting outnumbered, so im rolling to make sure i dont get hit by other things while im fighting the warden.

so just to clarify

streak is the best stun in the game by far. cant be blocked, rolled, or walked out of. instant cast. mobility skill. decent aoe damage. procs a damage buff via the status effect also.

fossilize is pretty solid, unblockable, undodgeable. no damage with it. not an aoe.

javelin can be dodged. decent damage. single target. good for meteor cheese and thats about it.

everything else sucks. off balance you can block or purge. warden script you can walk out of. the range on mass hysteria is smaller than intended and doesnt work. same for fighters guild stun.

ults like dawny and incap can catch you by surprise, but they're predictable. can be blocked. incap can be rolled.

i just think its funny that a skill, easy to play around, with a COOLDOWN (WHY ARE WE ADDING COOLDOWNS INTO THE GAME?!?!?) is being complained about. i mean i agree its janky.... which is why people use it. so they can better line up burst all at once.... but its not that good. its easy to avoid. and if you avoid 2 in a row.... thats 16 seconds without being stunned.... thats 16 seconds of un-interupted parse time, in which i have stunned them twice, in which im probably 3 or 4 skills ahead in my rotation... which means they're getting ready to die.

i think this is a learn to play issue, no offense. I say this because instead of complaining about the janky nature of the stun which is the real issue.... idk.... walk out of it. break free when the circle collapses. you have counterplay options.

imo.... instead of walking around randomly.... just stun people in place... problem solved.

Poss · August 14

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

JohnRingo wrote: »

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

Using warden charm as a ball group counter…. Great defence of this skill right there

The skill is over performing. Every man and his dog is playing a warden PURELY for this mastery. It’s buggy, hard to counter and often causes you to phase into the environment

Everyone arguing that it’s fine are clearly warden mains who are playing the acuity/rallying meta cheese

Arrow312 · August 14

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

I have two exactly builds. First is sorc main, second warden main. The warden performs better because of the master script. As a few wrote there is a reason why so many mains are wardens. The scribing skill is to strong.

Tcholl · August 14

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

One more vote to remove charm from PvP.

Also, a stun CANNOT be available as class mastery, since it would allow only one class, in this case Warden, to have a massive healing, stun and major vitality with a single click. It is way too much. The power creep is already way out of hand and we do not need this kind of OP skill in PvP.

It is worse with subclassing, since you can combine animal companion with assassination and have access to the double pump OP merciless resolve or the other morph.

Arrow312 · August 14

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

If you fight with or against some "Wardens" e.g. in a Tower you will see how strong this skill is. The combo with healing, vitality and stun or return of ressources is to strong in one skill. Reminds me of the old artic blast with the stun burst heal and Hot.

Æthërnüm · August 14

PVP - Charm is completely fine in PVP

lol, peeps scared of delayed stun that has clear AoE which you can leave and easy counterplay.

randconfig · August 14

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

Æthërnüm wrote: »

lol, peeps scared of delayed stun that has clear AoE which you can leave and easy counterplay.

It requires no cast/global cooldown to use it, right after your cc immunity ends, it's proccing and ccing you again, it forces you to get out of melee range to avoid, it restores resources, if you run around corners (in a tower), you can easily reset/control fights with no drawbacks...

I don't understand how this is acceptable passive gameplay, but Arcanist generating crux on banner isn't.

It absolutely needs changed, to remove/replace the CC or double the cooldown.

randconfig · August 14

PVP - Charm is over-performing and needs to be nerfed/changed

The_Meathead wrote: »

Not trying to be that guy, but I feel like there's no way the people saying it's fine aren't either Wardens or playing purely ranged and not having to deal with it very often.

If you play primarily melee, it's gotten pretty problematic in BGs and it's a staple of small sweat groups and Ballgroups in Cyrodiil now too, working ridiculously well with Ulfsid's + ROA to extend a long period of lost control.

Exactly. It's just like how DK's having the ability to reflect all projectiles back to the caster was game breaking for ranged builds. It needs nerfed. Reduce the radius, double the cooldown, or replace the hard CC charm with a snare.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Warden Class Script Charm (PVP only)

Warden Class Script Charm (PVP only) 82 votes