Would you like to see the addition of follower dungeons akin to WoW's system? (Explanation below)

spartaxoxo · July 19

Yes

Bubosh wrote: »

spartaxoxo you can always leave the grp, find yourself own ppl to run these for quests or simply try another queue. That rly shouldn't be a excuse to introduce a full out new solo mode for dungeons which would split the players right now even further to a negative outcome of the queue as is said. There is enough of ways to handle this named problem of you but that's up to zos (vote kicks etc.) as I also said you can do it in games where you have a healthy pop and queues but that's not a thing in eso atm and denying that would be just yeah whatever I guess

I HAVE left the queue when I want to hear stories. And so have many others. That's the entire problem with the queues. The solution to "activity finder group queues are awful experiences which has made queue times awful," isn't to tell the people who are still there to get out. It's to address the concerns of the playerbase.

These are two big concerns.

People who want to farm and people who want to hear the stories are flaming each other and making each other completely miserable because they have two competing and exclusive goals that make each other's experience worse.

The rewards for grouping are no longer interesting.

The best way to solve this is to make a story mode so those players have an actually good experience with the dungeon, especially new players. And then you add more rewards into the group play experience. IMO

People are much happier to go fast if they all want to do is farm rewards.

Or ZOS can continue to let players farming transmutes push new people out in droves because all they want is to hear the story. That's obviously working out so well. /S

Some of the most successful multiplayer games have healthy communities because they ensure that everyone can enjoy the group stuff. And that includes ensuring people who want the stories can hear them. Whether that's gating progress, implementing cut scenes that have to be unanimously skipped, or solo modes. They don't let one group ruin the experience for the other.

Bubosh · July 19

No

@spartaxoxo as someone mentioned there is even specific guilds created for exactly this purpose to grind the stories, if you are using a RANDOM GRP FINDER then obviously things can go into a direction you don't like but in my opinion it's your fault of queueing into a random grp but then complaining about the outcome of a full random grp with their random individual needs. If you want to grind the stories as mentioned you can there is enough options how to do so if you insist to find ppl to grind these on your own paste then it's only a your problem. My opinion

spartaxoxo · July 19

Yes

It's literally not my problem. I left the queue. I hear the stories just fine. And now you have one less capable player in that queue. And there's tons of players in the same position as me.

That attitude is why queue times are long. If you tell everyone to get out, then you don't get to complain there's nobody to play with and queue times are long as a legitimate complaint imo (ETA: the royal you, not you in particular).

Every other MMO knows that random should still mean "fun for all." And ESO's queue time is all the worst for being designed with "just leave then" towards a large portion of the playerbase.

cyclonus11 · July 19

Yes

And I would LOVE for companion interactions/dialogue with each other. I always wondered how the different companions would react to each other or how they would get along.

Parasaurolophus · July 19

Other

Just make story mode with difficult like overland.

Saintinel · July 19

No

Desiato wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I just want something to be done so people stop complaining all the time.

Impossible. Do you read the news? *Everything* is outrageous to someone.

If this were implemented, those who requested it would move on to trials.

It's not an easy thing to do which is why ZOS is instead planning a story mode -- which, as they describe, would be a new difficulty level, in essence.

The thing is companion AI is really dumb. It's suited for Overland content and bad at that. So it's not like they could enable 3 companion groups and call it a day. They would also have to nerf the poop out of dungeon mechs to facilitate it. Do you think a companion group is doing oathsworn pit or exiled redoubt without serious adjustments? Of course not.

I never use companions, never will, and absolutely hate it when I'm soloing a world boss and someone shows up with their tank companion, or someone pulls one out in a dungeon when another player drops. They pull the mob out of my AEs, keep the group stuck in combat while they get stuck in an epic solo battle with trash behind the group, etc...

I hate this notion that all things should be for all people. It just results in a watered down product appealing to the least discerning.

There is SO much of ESO that isn't designed for a player like me and I never stress about it. If I run out of things to do in ESO, I do something else. I'd never, ever, even consider advocating major changes that directly affect things other players have been enjoying for years. Content designed for a completely different kind of player. It's okay that it exists. It shouldn't be offensive to anyone that it doesn't work for them.

IMO, it is a fundamental level of respect that has gone AWOL and a big reason why things are the way they are right now.

Thank god, I was coming to say essentially the exact same thing. Thankfully you already have. As someone who started playing fairly recently and just hit 50 with my first character who I leveled as a tank, solo dungeons would make me instantly quit. People have to stop wanting MMOs to turn into single player games. The concept of it is stupid. If you want to play by yourself, there are MANY great RPGs out there to play, go do that. The MMO genre is struggling enough as is, let's not purposely put more nails in the coffin.

I agree people queuing as roles they are not is annoying, but there are other ways to deal with it. Yes, it might be more complicated for ZOS, but it will keep the integrity of the MMO side of the game. No group content should be able to be solo'd in MMO's by anyone, it goes against everything an MMO is about.

Meet people, make friends, connections. Don't join a guild just for the trader. Chat in zone chats, have conversations. You'll see the game in a new light and you'll notice how much more fun you're having!

Vrienda · July 19

Yes

It needed to happen from the start. They cram way too much story into dungeons for them to be forced for groups. I still don’t know what the deal with Selene was because everybody blitzes the dungeons.

“But muh MMO”. MMO’s without the ability to see the story solo are a dead genre. And that’s a good thing.

Desiato · July 19

No

I see the same argument a lot, whether it's a dungeon or a drop, or anything else inconvenient to someone, which essentially distills to: if it isn't accessible to me for any reason, regardless of my individual aptitude, interests and lifestyle, it's a problem.

It's completely unrealistic and complying with it will be -- and has been -- a neverending series of compromises that results in an extremely watered down product -- exactly like what happened to overland content in eso.

I'd love to do quests, but the mindset that we see in this thread have resulted in them being utterly repulsive to me because combat has been reduced to pure tedium. Even most dungeons are like that now already if everyone knows how to play and I'm not carrying the group.

It never ends. They will never be satisfied until everything with a modicum of challenge is nerfed to the ground and playing eso is like watching tv with basic interactions in the form of pressing E -- or whatever the button on the controller is. There must be someone out there who thinks even that is too much effort.

Lumenn · July 19

Yes

I personally see it as opening up more options, "play your way" if you will. Outgoing people will reach out and join guilds. Socially challenged will do as they please. (Whether that's pure solo or "que dramatic music" they must learn to group and hatch from their cocoon into a social butterfly thanks to an online MMO)Even with a severely handicapped daughter and limited "dedicated" playtime I've found 5 understanding active guilds in which to participate with and work as a team on what we can't accomplish on our own. Besides, I can't really see companion AI helping all THAT much. It WOULD help the horror of being in the que as dd, a (possibly?) dwindling player base, or some of the pug situations I've both experienced and read.

Point being, those that wish to socialize, will, those that don't, won't. In my opinion, options ALWAYS sound better than "you will be FORCED to group or do without!"

spartaxoxo · July 19

Yes

Vrienda wrote: »

It needed to happen from the start. They cram way too much story into dungeons for them to be forced for groups. I still don’t know what the deal with Selene was because everybody blitzes the dungeons.

“But muh MMO”. MMO’s without the ability to see the story solo are a dead genre. And that’s a good thing.

Absolutely. And "muh MMO" is even more ridiculous when you understand that they are complaining that a MMO feature get added into an MMO.

I don't know why this forum always has to fight against common MMO things being added to an MMO.

You see it with harder overland. You see it with fishing. You see with story modes. You see it with rewarding items being added to harder content. You see it with PvP content actually having something fun in it to collect. Why is it so awful if MMO stuff gets added to this MMO so all the different groups can have a fun and rewarding experience???

Lumenn · July 19

Yes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

It needed to happen from the start. They cram way too much story into dungeons for them to be forced for groups. I still don’t know what the deal with Selene was because everybody blitzes the dungeons.

“But muh MMO”. MMO’s without the ability to see the story solo are a dead genre. And that’s a good thing.

Absolutely. And "muh MMO" is even more ridiculous when you understand that they are complaining that a MMO feature get added into an MMO.

I don't know why this forum always has to fight against common MMO things being added to an MMO.

You see it with harder overland. You see it with fishing. You see with story modes. You see it with rewarding items being added to harder content. You see it with PvP content actually having something fun in it to collect. Why is it so awful if MMO stuff gets added to this MMO so all the different groups can have a fun and rewarding experience???

/Slow clap

I have never understood why "muh MMO" means forced grouping anyway. EQ died on that hill and didn't make changes until the much more solo friendly WOW wiped the floor with them. To me MMO means we all play in the same world, not that I have to hold your hand to play there. More options are always better.

Sarannah · July 19

Yes

Would love to queue up for a random dungeonqueue with 3 companions. Even though I would prefer if ZOS would make dungeons fun for all players again(enforce roles/remove speedrunners)!

For those suggesting a story mode... there is a whole world of player types/speeds between story mode speed and speedrunner speed. Personally I love running dungeons in a PUG group, with players who actually want to be there. I don't mind teaching players somewhat or help them complete the dungeon if needed. But I also want dungeons done as fast as possible, with as much gain as possible. Which means looting heavy sacks and chests, and killing trash mobs between bosses. When people fake role or speedrun, they take away my enjoyment and rewards from running dungeons. Granting me a bad dungeon experience, because I ended up with players who do NOT want to be there for the grouping experience.

So as long as ZOS does not fix the MMO part of the game by removing fake role and speedrun players, I would rather queue up for a random dungeon with 3 companions and get my daily dungeon rewards that way.

Cooperharley · July 19

Yes

Desiato wrote: »

No. It is essential to the health of the MMO side of the game that players are encouraged to try group content.

ESO isn't WoW. Its lineage is that of a single player game, yet it's an online multiplayer game. It's well understood that probably the vast majority of its players come from single player TES games and are inclined to play single player unless motivated to do otherwise.

ZOS has already made 99.999% of the game solo friendly. They need to preserve the remaining group content or else the MMO side of the game will die.

At this point, I would say most players I know, including the leaders of a prominent Discord community, started as single player TES fans. They only found they really enjoyed group content and started making friends when they made the jump to Dungeons. That path lead them to vet dungeons, then trials, and eventually trifectas.

The same goes for Cyrodiil and IC, which is why we shouldn't have PVE instances of those zones.

This topic is really offensive to me as a player of the MMO side of the game because it is threatening to it. There is no need because Dungeons represent such a tiny portion of the game and normal dungeons have already been made to be SO accessible.

The desire the single player gamer may have to explore them more deeply is exactly the carrot that should lead them to making friends and acquaintances to do such things.

I speak from experience. Though I no longer have such a desire, when ESO was new I wanted to have more freedom to explore dungeons. So I found a like-minded friend and we did that together.

There is a bigger picture to all of this. Please do not water down the multiplayer side of the game even more.

I can see your perspective for sure, as an avid multiplayer/MMO fan myself, but I don't think that adding a follower dungeon mode for new players or solo players would hurt the "health" of the MMO side of the game. It didn't touch the MMO side of WoW at all, it just provided an avenue for those players. I tried it out when it first came out, thought it was cool, and never touched it again, largely engaging in just mythic+ (veteran dungeon type of content in WoW, but significantly more robust).

Many MMOs are 99% solo friendly, so this point is irrelevant and again, you have to think about who the majority of the playerbase IS. Is it largely end-game focused people like you and I who may be primarily engaging in PvP or trifecta dungeons/vet trials? Absolutely not. Not only did this prove to be a great addition for solo players in WoW, but it proved to be a great tool for newer support players learning routes in dungeons and tanking/healing. It's not designed to be an end-game centric feature, but largely for solo, new and largely casual players and I'm glad it's there for them. Frankly, from my perspective, it'd be a win-win because it'd provide people with the avenue to experience the stories and then I don't think there'd be nearly as much complaining about "fake tanks" and "fake healers" in normal dungeons when you don't need them in the first place at that level.

I also don't agree with your point about this crowd chasing this down for trials afterwards as, anecdotally, i've never once seen this in games where this type of thing has been implemented. I don't know what experience you're speaking from, but it seems primarily ESO-based, which is great! But it's worked well in other games and the best MMOs are those that takes features from other games, put their own polish on it, and make them better. Competition always drives quality up, which is a big win for consumers.

Cooperharley · July 19

Yes

Bubosh wrote: »

@Danikat there is already now enough complaints about the population and also about the queues. If you think this time is good to spread the players even further with more solo modes then ofc the grp queues will suffer. You can doubt that as much as you want but that's just a logical outcome and in this actual situation of eso right now with it's population. Ofc it can work in other MMORPGs when they have a much bigger audience than ESO sadly right now has. (Fix the game first and then put in new game modes when the player population is stabilized again and don't do such in critical Situations because it's too much risk and investment)

No, not doubting them. Queues are always rough for dps players regardless, which is why you run into the issue of fake tanks and healers - to skip the queue. I don't think it'd have as much of an effect as you think and even though we have the "holy trinity" present in ESO, it's not needed in the slightest in normal dungeons. I'd prefer it if a role wasn't even necessary in this queue specifically or if you could elect to be in a group with more than 2 dps and even with all 4 being present to help groups form more quickly. Obviously, this isn't a thing when you discuss trials, but for dungeons - even many vet dungeons, the holy trinity isn't a hard set model that needs to be followed. Some of my best trifecta dungeon runs have been with 3 dds and a tank for instance.

How do you forsee ZOS "fixing the game" and bringing in tons of new players out of curiosity as well? I don't think stopping production of features and QOL things while we wait for that to happen is smart, regardless of how obviously necessary that is.

Cooperharley · July 19

Yes

Saintinel wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I just want something to be done so people stop complaining all the time.

Impossible. Do you read the news? *Everything* is outrageous to someone.

If this were implemented, those who requested it would move on to trials.

It's not an easy thing to do which is why ZOS is instead planning a story mode -- which, as they describe, would be a new difficulty level, in essence.

The thing is companion AI is really dumb. It's suited for Overland content and bad at that. So it's not like they could enable 3 companion groups and call it a day. They would also have to nerf the poop out of dungeon mechs to facilitate it. Do you think a companion group is doing oathsworn pit or exiled redoubt without serious adjustments? Of course not.

I never use companions, never will, and absolutely hate it when I'm soloing a world boss and someone shows up with their tank companion, or someone pulls one out in a dungeon when another player drops. They pull the mob out of my AEs, keep the group stuck in combat while they get stuck in an epic solo battle with trash behind the group, etc...

I hate this notion that all things should be for all people. It just results in a watered down product appealing to the least discerning.

There is SO much of ESO that isn't designed for a player like me and I never stress about it. If I run out of things to do in ESO, I do something else. I'd never, ever, even consider advocating major changes that directly affect things other players have been enjoying for years. Content designed for a completely different kind of player. It's okay that it exists. It shouldn't be offensive to anyone that it doesn't work for them.

IMO, it is a fundamental level of respect that has gone AWOL and a big reason why things are the way they are right now.

Thank god, I was coming to say essentially the exact same thing. Thankfully you already have. As someone who started playing fairly recently and just hit 50 with my first character who I leveled as a tank, solo dungeons would make me instantly quit. People have to stop wanting MMOs to turn into single player games. The concept of it is stupid. If you want to play by yourself, there are MANY great RPGs out there to play, go do that. The MMO genre is struggling enough as is, let's not purposely put more nails in the coffin.

I agree people queuing as roles they are not is annoying, but there are other ways to deal with it. Yes, it might be more complicated for ZOS, but it will keep the integrity of the MMO side of the game. No group content should be able to be solo'd in MMO's by anyone, it goes against everything an MMO is about.

Meet people, make friends, connections. Don't join a guild just for the trader. Chat in zone chats, have conversations. You'll see the game in a new light and you'll notice how much more fun you're having!

What's your solution to the problem?

I wouldn't use these solo dungeons myself. I have a group of friends that I play with primarily and play largely in groups, but given that ZOS implemented the play how you want mantra and there's no role checks, how do you forsee them fixing this?

Ravensilver · July 19

Yes

I absolutely LOVE the follower dungeons in WoW! They allow me to see the new dungeons, learn the story, learn the mechanics and even get a bit of loot!
I never feel comfortable running dungeons (or raids) with other people that I don't know. This way I can experience the content (that I paid for!) in a way that makes it possible for me.

Cooperharley · July 20

Yes

Ravensilver wrote: »

I absolutely LOVE the follower dungeons in WoW! They allow me to see the new dungeons, learn the story, learn the mechanics and even get a bit of loot!
I never feel comfortable running dungeons (or raids) with other people that I don't know. This way I can experience the content (that I paid for!) in a way that makes it possible for me.

Yea this is what I'm getting at. In ESO YOU are placed in queue with someone like me that wants to be as efficient as possible and get my transmutes ASAP. It's a logical solution to create avenues for both players and make everyone happy.

It's astonishing after 10 years with these threads popping up week after week that nothing has been done yet. @ZOS_Kevin has the team ever discussed implementing this type of feature?

BretonMage · July 20

Yes

Players who want to rush through dungeons with other dungeon-rushers can do so, and players who want to take things at their own slower pace (because companions can't match the performance of real players) can do so as well. Win/win.

MreeBiPolar · July 20

Other

It is funny that the vast majority of No explanations go "It is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game, it should force you to do small group content in small groups".

Edit: actually, it is the MMO aspect that is often discouraging the group/multiplayer play at all. Especially, with the newer content, it is often the case that you enter a PD, or, worse, go on on a story quest, and everything is wiped clean on a semipermanent basis by dozens of people running it at the same time. You are led by the quest to some spot, are supposed to kill some miniboss by the story, but someone did it a minute ago, and you often don't even know it was there at all if the quest point was like "explore location X". The quest just ticks to the next phase.

That said... Solo story mode, yes, please.

Especially if it somehow teaches/showcases mechanics a-la some of the story quests where you go against some boss having tens of millions of HP, and after you chip off a few hundred thousands, it's a scripted mechanics phase that cuts off 1/3 or so of their health.

Wishful thinking, that last part, of course, as it'd require too much effort to implement, but...

peacenote · July 20

No

For the purposes of simplification, I would put players who want to do dungeons into four main categories.

1. Those who want to play with others
2. Those who don't want to play with others
3. Those who prefer to play with people they know, and will duo or trio dungeons for the challenge or to avoid the queue
4.Those who value time efficiency over fun, and will do whatever provides rewards the fastest (solo,group, etc.)

This suggestion, depending on current and near future population, has the potential to degrade the experience of players in the first group by pushing the players in the fourth group to this solo mode, reducing the amount of players in the group queue. I suspect ESO does not have the population anymore to split the community and have it go unnoticed. Since dungeon content is, first and foremost, for the first group, I think this is problematic and therefore not ok.

Also, I was pushed from group 1 to group 3 primarily because of AwA. It would be annoying if the feature the OP described was for solo only and also, I feel, not ok. I would like to level a new DPS character with a friend who might also be DPS in this mode. But if it doesn't support duos and trios it would also push THOSE people to solo mode in certain circumstances, which, again, I feel is wrong for content whose main purpose is for group play.

Solo players should not be locked out of the content, but design changes should not be made that will skew it to be more of a solo activity because the solo version is more beneficial.

That's my two cents.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 20

No

Cooperharley wrote: »

WoW's follower dungeons (just for normal) allow you to queue solo into this and have either 3 of your companions (for ESO purposes and systems) or just 3 NPCs congruent with the dungeon's story to fill in the slots that are missing. There is a setting where you can essentially have the NPC's follow a pre-determined path throughout the dungeon OR it allows you to lead and have the NPC's follow your lead and only engage once you pull. Tanks make sure to taunt all enemies, DPS do a pre-determined amount of damage, and healers give you basic buffs and a certain amount of healing, albeit with less uptime on buffs than an experienced player obviously.

I just consistently see these threads about fake tanks and fake healers and fake dps over and over again every week. Ultimately, what is the reason for this? It's 2 fold:

1) There is a natural surplus of DPS present in any MMO and the queue will always be longer for non-support players. Being that tanks and healers really only become super necessary in veteran DLC dungeons and some base game dungeons, you really aren't incentivized to play one until then. On top of this, they do so little damage in overland and solo content that they're really only used in group content unlike many other MMOs where you can play as your tank or healer build 100% of the time and enjoy it.

2) We are incentivized as players to run random normal dungeons as quickly as possible. For those that don't PvP especially, it is by far the fastest route to farming your transmute crystals for build creation/reconstructing gear/etc. As mentioned beforehand, tanks and healers really aren't needed in these lower tier dungeons and there is ZERO DIFFERENCE in rewards between a random veteran dungeon and random normal dungeon (WHICH IS SO CRAZY). So you have end game players spamming these dungeons and caring about efficiency: easiest thing to do is to gun through these dungeons after queueing as a tank on your zooped up DPS character and finish the dungeon ASAP. What's the problem with that though? You're mixed in with new players and inexperienced players who are trying to learn their class, learn the dungeon, learn their role and experience the story.

Unfortunately, it is a random queue and without gear/build checks & ZOS's play how you want mantra, there will never be a world where this won't happen. You simply cannot rely on the goodwill of your playerbase. You have to incentivize alternative gameplay like really increasing the rewards for random veteran dungeons (I.e. 2.5x XP and transmutes for the daily compared to a normal dungeon) OR introduce an alternative so people wanting to learn and experience the quest can do so at their own pace (I.e. follower dungeons). I personally think the follower dungeons is the route to go, but what do y'all think?

Why don't people who want features like this just play single player games? There are hundreds to thousands of single player questing games out there to choose from.

AzuraFan · July 20

Yes

peacenote wrote: »

It would be annoying if the feature the OP described was for solo only and also, I feel, not ok.

Why would it be for solo only? If ZOS did it right, it would allow these followers to fill out any number of empty spots. So if you had a group of two, you could take two followers along. If you had three, you could take one follower along. Or take none. Nothing would stop you from running with a duo or trio.

Also, your simplified split into four groups - why should the enjoyment of one group be prioritized over the other groups?

As for reducing players in the dungeon queue, I'd love that. As a DPS, I often have a 25 minute or more wait. I'd love it if the queue popped faster for me and it was filled with people who want to do quick runs. I'd also love a way to do an exploratory run that could take over an hour, by myself, with three competent NPCs (companions make sense, so maybe the combat AI could be improved for instanced dungeons only, if ZOS doesn't want to do it everywhere).

For those runs, I'm not in the queue. I just don't do them or I wait for the very occasional time I have the opportunity to do it with guildies. So adding this mode would not take me out of the queue. I'm not in it to begin with for that.

SilverBride · July 20

Yes

We have normal and veteran modes for dungeons already, so why not add another for a follower mode? Or even just a solo mode?

Raanbury · July 20

Yes

I like this idea.

Marronsuisse · July 20

Yes

I'd love this. Even if the option was only available once per character or even once per account... I just want to be able to appreciate the story and the environment, at my own pace, the first time through. 😑

lillybit · July 20

Yes

I've thought about this a bit recently. I've never had an opinion on solo instances of dungeons before but my perspective has changed a bit recently.

I don't really do group content any more. I used to; I'm an OK mid-level player, not spectacular but I'm alright especially compared to a lot of random pugs. The main reason I stopped was anxiety. I worry about being able to do the latest content, don't like asking for help and just generally shy away from groups. I do a lot of other things tho, so tho i miss dungeons a little on occasion it's not a big deal.

This year I was forced to buy 2 dungeon packs in order to play the latest zone (and get the attunable set for my guild house). It's one thing not being able to play them when they're just an added extra, it's another when I've had to buy them. So yes, I'd now quite like an anxiety friendly way of experiencing them where I'm not dependent on a group

BretonMage · July 20

Yes

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Why don't people who want features like this just play single player games? There are hundreds to thousands of single player questing games out there to choose from.

And which ones of those are set in the Elder Scrolls universe, with regularly updated content?

Jaimeh · July 20

Other

On the one hand it's not great for the health of the game to push it even more into single-player territory. On the other hand, the PUG experience can be very hit and miss, and if players were considerate during group runs there wouldn't be so many complains on that front. I think normal dungeons are pretty accessible (unless there are hard group mechanics, like pressure plates, etc.), but I can see why others would like some way of doing the story leisurely.

peacenote · July 28

No

AzuraFan wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

It would be annoying if the feature the OP described was for solo only and also, I feel, not ok.

Why would it be for solo only? If ZOS did it right, it would allow these followers to fill out any number of empty spots. So if you had a group of two, you could take two followers along. If you had three, you could take one follower along. Or take none. Nothing would stop you from running with a duo or trio.

I was just responding to the idea as presented by the OP, which says (bolded emphasis mine):

WoW's follower dungeons (just for normal) allow you to queue solo into this and have either 3 of your companions (for ESO purposes and systems) or just 3 NPCs congruent with the dungeon's story to fill in the slots that are missing.

I haven't played WoW in years so I have no idea if that description is "solo only" or "all configurations of players including solo." I agree with you that the idea would be better if was built for any number of players, as it would make the functionality more inclusive to more types of players and groups. But that's not how I read the proposal from the OP on which we were asked to vote.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Also, your simplified split into four groups - why should the enjoyment of one group be prioritized over the other groups?

Well, what I was trying to say was, if there is a direct conflict in the evolution of a feature that sacrifices the enjoyment of one kind of player over another, in my opinion the priority should go to the type of player who is the intended audience for the content. Dungeons are intended for four players. Trials are intended for twelve players. Solo arenas are intended for one player. Cyrodiil is intended for PvP. Etc. If functionality can be enhanced so that all things are equal, and enjoyment for other kinds of players can be increased without sacrificing the experience of the intended audience, I'm all for it.

Creating a queue that's potentially easier, quicker, and has less drama such that going through the dungeon solo with NPCs is more desirable or produces faster drops, clears, etc. than waiting to find a group will, in my opinion, make the experience worse for the intended audience of dungeons, and will disincentive ZOS to fix the real pain points in dungeons because then the answer will be - well, if you don't like grouping with people, just use the companion queue.

I'm not an oracle so I could be wrong

but just like I wouldn't support an idea that made Cyro more fun for PvE'ers at the expense of PvP'ers, or a proposal to add a hard combat phase to digging up Antiquities to make it more interesting for people who like fighting, I do think that intended, primary audience should be considered in these scenarios, since there is a wealth of other content that players can enjoy if they don't want to play the content as intended.

And, btw, I would equally be against removing flexibility that does exist to try and force a more rigid playstyle - for example forcing dungeon groups to be four people. I think the game should be as flexible and inclusive as possible to all playstyles, but when there is a conflict, the tie should go to the primary audience, is all.