PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities Changes

wolfie1.0. · July 13

my feedback,

this is probably the first time that it wont be worth investing to take all of the passives in a class skill line. the Ultimate generation passives might as well be deleted in full, or changed to something more beneficial. since they are no longer reliable for ultimate generation and better options exist for sourcing it the buffs.

tomofhyrule · July 13

randconfig wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Still waiting.

"player choice remains at the forefront of ESO's design philosophy" . . .

Unless you're an Arcanist, as now ZOS has gutted the class mastery script, so you cannot generate crux to have access to the class passives or to use crux consumption abilities when you want to use nonclass abilities, scribed abilities, or subclassed abilities. You will use runeblades and beam and you will like it.

As has been mentioned in the other two threads complaining about Arcanist Class Mastery:

Only Banner Bearer was changed. The Arcanist Class Mastery to create Crux still works on all other Scribed skills exactly as it did before. I went on PTS and tested it - I cast Torchbearer with the Class Mastery and got a Crux. I cast it again and got a second. I cast it again and got a third.

You are still perfectly able to use all Scribed skills except one as spammables to generate Crux. The only Scribed skill that has a different action with the Arcanist Class Mastery is Banner Bearer, and it's specifically to prevent Crux from infinitely generating passively.

madmufffin · July 13

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

my feedback,

this is probably the first time that it wont be worth investing to take all of the passives in a class skill line. the Ultimate generation passives might as well be deleted in full, or changed to something more beneficial. since they are no longer reliable for ultimate generation and better options exist for sourcing it the buffs.

Even worse for Prism since that skill line was already very meh dps passives wise

TaxiDriver2116 · July 13

The change to Grim Focus is disappointing but understandable because of its strength for subclassing. However, pure Nightblades need a way to make up for this loss in damage. Something like getting 300-500 weapon damage for standing in your own Twisting Path would be perfect, as it wouldn’t be making Assassination too strong, and Shadow needs some love.

Turtle_Bot · July 13

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

I have finally had the chance to jump on the PTS to test out the changes made this PTS.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Please keep in mind that many of the updates related to classes and abilities are with Subclassing post-U46 in mind.

There is a lot to unpack here, but I will try to keep it as concise as possible.

First the easy stuff:

Grim Focus:
Nothing will change even with the adjustments made to Grim Focus. The entire Assassination skill line is just too strong and too efficient as a damage line.
The changes to this ability are mixed, removing the bonus damage (which this ability never needed in the first place) is fine and will potentially reign in some of the passive power we saw in PvE. Granting this ability passive Major prophecy/Savagery completely nullifies the removal of the passive weapon/spell damage though as the Assassination line remains a complete no-brainer to slot in for every single build that wants to deal damage due to how complete this single line is for damage, providing literally everything a damage dealing build needs outside of sustained damage over time (or DoT for short).

The main issue with this ability was not solved however, the active component still deals more damage than any ultimate in the game and can be saved up to be cast twice (I thought we were trying to reduce the amount of ultimate spam in ESO).
Banner Bearer (Arcanist class script):
This needs more work. I agree that the passive crux at any time was enabling too much passive power for Fatecarver and Tentacular Dread, but now banner is near useless for Arcanist. Something else is needed for the class mastery script for Banner Bearer, maybe have it grant bonus damage per active crux?
Ultimate Generation changes:
This needs a lot more in-depth thought/rework. These passives are almost entirely useless now since the potions (or Banner Bearer scribing skill or Oakensoul Mythic) already provide 100% uptime on minor heroism and the passives not having a 100% uptime just makes them not worth considering over these other options.
A better idea I have seen mentioned would have been to make those ultimate generation passives grant a new named buff, one that grants ultimate generation, that would stack with heroism, but not stack with itself, this way it still enables playstyles based around more frequent ultimates, but prevents ultimates from being so easily spammed.

In regards to the Sorcerer changes in particular, as this is my main class, this is where things get very complex, so will be it's own section.

Bound Armor:
- The Good:
  This ability is finally designed around different roles, instead of the outdated magicka or stamina.
- The Bad:
  This split now just reinforces the downsides of not only this ability compared to equivalents, but also just how convoluted, and unfinished this line (and all 3 sorc lines) are in this age of sub-classing.
  - Bound Armaments is just an objectively worse Grim Focus with nothing at all to give it a niche over Grim Focus:
    It deals 28% less damage
    It takes 3 times as long to deal that damage
    The stacks fall off after 10 seconds regardless of being in combat or not
    It has no utility (Grim Focus has a burst heal that is unaffected by battle spirit and both grant Major prophecy/Savagery)
    The passives in Daedric Summoning are objectively worse and focus more on the pets than the passives in the Assassination line that are the best DPS passives in the game and apply to everything.
- The Ugly:
  Bound Aegis losing the max magicka and minor protection all but deletes Sorcerers class Shields as a defensive tool.
  The max magicka on Bound Aegis was crucial for allowing Sorcerer to utilize shields as its defense since the class doesn't have the same healing (both burst heals and healing over time) as the other classes have. With the removal of the Max magicka on Bound Aegis, there is now zero difference between a Sorcerer building for Hardened Ward and any other class building for the Light armor skill, Annulment or a scribing skill with the damage shield focus script. Major Resolve does not make up for this loss.
  Sorcerer no longer has access to Major resolve in the class kit if the class wants to gain access to Major Prophecy/Savagery, an essential named buff that the class was designed around and has been begged for by Sorcerers since the beginning of ESO.
Dark Deal
Removing Minor Force from this ability is whatever. This ability was too clunky to see use in PvE rotations, especially since the buffs minor force and minor berserk are on just about every skill/set as free bonuses these days. The issues with this ability still remain though:
- It's dependent on the blood magic passive to provide decent healing
- The full 1 second cast time makes it extremely clunky in PvE and very easy to interrupt in PvP (especially for those who have high ping where the cast time acts more like 2-3 seconds instead of the listed 1 second)
- The cast time messes with bar swapping, essentially forcing an additional delay before being able to bar swap or the ability cancels or the bar never swaps.
Lightning Form:
- The Good:
  There is literally nothing here when it comes to this change. Gun to my head, maybe I could say it's a pure DPS ability now, even this is a complete stretch?
- The Bad:
  There is now only 1 ability worth slotting from the Storm Calling skill line: Streak. Even then most classes would be better off slotting Aedric Spear instead for better (and more generically applied) passives and much better active abilities as well that includes a gap closer that has a stun and damage attached.
  Minor Force is so easily obtained already that most builds already have it for free without needing to slot (let alone activate) any abilities at all.
- The Ugly:
  All this change does is remove the only remaining Sorcerer line that was worth sub-classing into from the list of worthwhile sub-classing lines:
  If I want a mix of Damage, mobility and sustain, I sub in Warden's Animal Companions instead of Storm Calling since that line gives me active abilities worth slotting, including a delayed burst (that has both breach debuffs and is AoE), major brutality/sorcery (that comes with more sustain than the capacitor passive and has a free cleanse (or increased damage done), longest duration major expedition in the game (that comes with minor berserk or minor evasion and snare immunity) and passives that grant significantly more sustain and grants crit damage (that matches and stacks with minor force), ultimate generation (something sorc still doesn't have) and a small heal proc (similar to blood magic).
- Overall summary of the changes to Sorcerer:
  The changes made to Sorcerer this patch read as a delayed response to attempt to fix Sorcerer issues that existed before sub-classing without any consideration into how Sorcerer interacts with the Sub-classing system that exists now.
  
  If we didn't have Sub-classing in ESO, the only issue I would take would be the removal of max stats and artificial limitation placed on Sorcerer forcing it to choose between major resolve and major prophecy/savagery. But taking with sub-classing in mind, all the changes that were made this patch have done is to convolute the Sorcerer class lines even more so than they were before, rendering them sub-par to the options available to the other classes, thus preventing Sorcerer from engaging effectively with the Sub-classing system.
  
  The changes being made here really needs to be reverted, go back to the drawing board, talk to Sorcerer mains and come up with a complete rework of Sorcerers skill lines into DPS/Tank/Heal, not the current half-baked attempt that completely removes the class as a viable option (again).
How to fix Sorc:
- Short term:
  - Best option is to revert the changes to Sorcerer while you go back to the drawing board.
  - Easy option would be to move Major Prophecy/Savagery from Bound Armaments, give that named buff to Surge (and morphs) and move the current Major Brutality/Sorcery Buff from Surge to Lightning Form (and morphs), then have Bound Armaments keep the Major Resolve from the base morph which would give Armaments something unique to set it apart from Grim Focus.
  Either of these 2 options would at least allow Sorcerer to continue to engage with sub-classing while a longer term full rework is being done to better align Sorcs skills into the DPS/Tank/Heal role split that modern classes (and NB) current have.
- Long term:
  This is where things get tricky because there's so many ways to play sorcerer that not everyone will be happy, no matter how things are moved around.
  1. Decide which lines fit into which roles. Currently the lines read as follows:
  - Dark Magic is primarily a tanking line, but has the class spammable (crystal shards) and non-pet based healing (shroud and exchange) in it
  - Daedric Summoning has a mix of everything due to being focused around the pets, but has DPS abilities such as Curse and Armaments and tank skills like ward and aegis locked behind it.
  - Storm Calling is primarily a DPS line but has the class heal over time (surge) in it and the active abilities are just sub-par for the DPS role that are inferior even to the pets that are in the tank/mixed line.
  2. Move the abilities around such that they are inside the lines that match their roles i.e. something like the following:
  - Dark Magic - becomes the non-pet tank/healing line (similar to restoring focus from templar)
    Crystal Fragments is moved to the Storm Calling line, and replaced with Surge. Surge becomes a self heal over time for 12-15 seconds that also grants Major Prophecy/Savagery while active. The morphs could then add a smaller AoE heal when crit healing or dealing crit damage.
    
    Encase remains as is. Maybe reduce the damage on the shattering spines morph and have it increase magic/shock damage taken of enemies immobilized by this ability by 5% and slightly increase the healing on shroud to better match blessings of restoration.
    
    Rune Prison
    
    Dark Exchange - The heal from this ability is instant, the sustain remains on the 1 second cast time which can be interrupted. Minor berserk is now a group buff instead of self only. This reinforces this ability as the selfish heal for tanks, giving them a guaranteed way to self heal, but keeping the sustain on the cast time to prevent permanent block casting sustain and granting some group utility to this ability for support roles.
    
    Daedric Mines Bound Armor - This ability is moved to the Daedric Summoning line and replaced with Bound Armor. Bound Armor now grants Major Resolve on both morphs. Bound Aegis can be activated to grant Major Aegis for 15 seconds, reducing damage taken in dungeons and trials by 10% and an additional 30% Block mitigation for 8 seconds. Armaments grants minor resolve and while slotted, taking damage adds a stack of armament, increasing armor by 700 for each stack. Can be cast to heal the caster or a nearby ally for X health and granting 1% bonus movement speed for each armament consumed (max 8 armaments, max 4 armaments consumed per cast, bonus movement speed lasts 4 seconds)
    The goal here is to separate Bound Armaments from Grim Focus, giving Armaments it's own niche/role as a tank/support skill while grim focus remains as the DPS version.
    The idea behind this rework to armaments is that while the stacks build up, they add to the wearers armor by providing additional layers of magical armor, then once shed, the wearer feels lighter and more nimble.
    
    Negate - Rework the Silence effect: Non-elite Monsters and players affected by the debuff are silenced (cannot cast abilities), while Elite and Boss monsters can still cast their abilities, but their abilities deal less damage (does not apply to their regular light or heavy attacks).
    The goal here is to bring back some utility in PvE for this ability, allowing it to find a niche on supports without outright nullifying important mechanics of bosses and elite mobs.
    
    Exploitation (Passive) Solid Arcane
    This passive now increases Max health by 2%/3% and armor by 430/860.
    The effects of the exploitation passive have been moved to storm calling line and added on to the expert mage passive in that line to bring that passive more in line with the Hemorrhage passive in the Assassination line. This new passive now facilitates the tank/support role that the active skills are so heavily focused on.
  - Storm Calling - this focuses on DPS and non-pet DPS in particular.
    Crystal Shards Charged Shards
    Basically the same ability, now in the Storm calling line (where the class spammable belongs). Crystal Fragments name changed to Charged Fragments. This ability and the Charged Fragments morph now deal Shock damage instead of Magic damage and has an increased chance to proc concussed status effect. Crystal Weapon renamed Stormy Weapon, still deals Physical damage, but now applies the sundered status effect on each hit instead of a unique armor debuff.
    
    Lightning Form - This ability now grants Major Brutality/Sorcery and minor Force. Increased the base radius of this ability and morphs to 8m to match other similar abilities and better reflect the recent increase to melee attack range. While active increases the damage of concussed and sundered status effects that you proc.
    
    Lightning Splash - Enemies standing within this abilities Area take an additional 5% shock damage.
    This debuff combined with the change to lightning form is designed to bring shock damage up closer to flame and frost damage types that have +15% or more bonus to their damage types compared to the current +5% for shock damage. Being on a ground based AoE, this limits it's effectiveness in PvP while buffing this skill to fill a niche role for PvE.
    
    Surge Mages Fury
    The class execute, increase the proc threshold to 33% to match the new standard that has been applied to other execute abilities. The bonus damage now also scales up to 50% more damage for targets under 33% health.
    Moved to the 4th slot, since Crystal Shards (now charged shards) is in the first slot to match other DPS skill lines having their spammable as the first skill in those lines.
    I am also still trying to keep this ability as close to the original design as possible, but updating it slightly to reflect modern combat designs and damage values. The bonus damage remains the strong component of this ability, but the updated threshold and the small scaling value allows this ability to compete with other executes that have purely scaling damage.
    
    Bolt Escape - the last remaining class defining ability in the Sorcerer line. Keeping as is for now.
    
    Overload - I would love to see this ability be a viable alternative to Atronarch for PvE, instead of just as a bugged PvP option or parse cheesing option. A strong Chain Lightning style ability similar to force pulse that spreads to nearby enemies, but pure shock damage instead of mixed elemental damage would be cool. At the bare minimum, just fixing all the bugs this ability has would be helpful.
    
    Expert Mage (Passive)
    This passive grants 89/179 weapon/spell damage per Storm calling ability slotted and also grants Minor Prophecy to your and group members for 20 seconds when you activate a Storm Calling ability.
    This ability now has the exploiter passive added into it and had its damage bonus increased to better match the Hemorrhage passive in the Assassination line. To limit the power this line can grant, this ability now only considers Storm calling abilities slotted instead of any Sorcerer ability slotted for granting bonus weapon/spell damage.
  - Daedric Summoning - This line will remain quite mixed, but now it focuses purely on pets only since skills have been moved around to truly allow sorcerers who don't want to engage with the pets to sub-class out of this line.
    Unstable Familiar - This ability and morphs largely remain the same. The damage has been increased by 30%
    
    Curse - This ability deals X magic damage and increases the damage all Summons deal by 20%. Daedric Prey increases damage all summons deal by 25%. Haunting Curse now deals its magic damage over it's full 12 second duration instead of 2 instances.
    The aim of this rework is to reduce the power this ability could potentially grant to non-sorcerer based summons while enabling a pure summoner playstyle by buffing all summons. To compensate for this, some of the power that this ability was previously offering has been shifted into the Sorcerer summons themselves.
    The morphs now differentiate themselves with prey enabling a slightly more bursty playstyle that further buffs the damage summons deal while haunting curse aims to haunt its victims for the full duration while maintaining the increased damage the victim takes from your summons
    
    Conjured Ward - This ability now grants +8% max magicka while slotted on either bar.
    Since Bound Armor is no longer in this skill line and this ability is limited to pet builds only, I am adding the max magicka that used to exist on bound armor to this ability to better differentiate this ability and its role in protecting the summoner and their summons compared to non-class options that can be utilized on any build.
    
    Bound Armor Daedric Mines - Conjuring daedric runes should ideally fit into the daedric magic/summoning line. This ability would ideally be some sort of group utility for summoner builds to contribute to group play. Maybe have it grant major brutality/sorcery and major resolve for 20 seconds if cast while a permanent pet is active so that pet builds don't feel forced into oakensoul or non-pet lines to get those buffs.
  While admittedly this is not a perfect rework to the Sorcerer skill lines, these changes would at least better define the sorcerer lines into the DPS/Tank/Heal roles while maintaining the themes of each line and allowing both summoner and non-summoner sorcerers to fully lean into sub-classing to better fill out their respective playstyles without feeling like they are missing out on anything.

Lebensf0rm · July 13

This round of class and balance changes is rough. There are a few welcome changes to gear sets: Kazpian, Berserking Warrior, and Yandir’s Might are all receiving reasonable buffs (though Berserking Warrior could still use minor slayer). That said, the rest of the balance changes are neither “light” nor “gentle”: they vary from irritating to catastrophically bad. Some changes, like the removal of Major Resolve from Lightning Form and its morphs, are indicative of a disconnect between players and the balance team: they disrupt builds and playstyles that have been unproblematic for years. Other changes feel outright punitive and (contrary to the “You Belong” mantra) alienating: the revamp of ultimate passives, especially in the wake of nerfs to Pillager’s Profit and Pearls of Ehlnofey, is tantamount to telling many endgame players that fun isn’t allowed. I’ll go into further detail below, but if I had to give a tl;dr, I would say, “These class and balance changes hurt both build diversity and skill expression, which makes the game less fun to play for everyone”. I shouldn’t have to say this, but a patch that makes the game less fun is bad and should not go live.

Class and Skill Changes

Ultimate Passives: As some content creators (e.g., Hyperioxes, Skinnycheeks) have pointed out, the most glaring issue with the changes to ultimate generating passives is that they result in those passives being useless for players gaining Minor Heroism from one of the many other sources like potions or Oakensoul. The dev comment states that the new passives will “mitigate the need to gain [Minor Heroism] from things like scribed abilities or consumables”, but players (especially in endgame PvE scenarios) are still going to be chugging heroism pots. Why? Because the new passives do not provide 100% uptime on Minor Heroism even when utilized optimally, and there are no better buffs (e.g., Major Berserk) players can get from potions. So, players in optimized groups are having power in the form of more frequent ultimates taken from them and being given nothing in return. That just feels bad, and makes the game less fun to play. Furthermore, the loss of the ability to build for ultimate generation by making passives grant the same minor buff* feels like a punishment: players who enjoy supporting their group by building and using or sharing ultimate quickly are being told their playstyle isn’t legitimate even though it isn’t harmful or disruptive. And that’s before taking into account the hit build diversity takes by homogenizing class passives. In short, the ultimate changes send the message that the devs want players to play the way they want, as long as they aren’t optimizing. It’s alienating to people who have spent significant time theorycrafting and refining their gameplay with respect to ultimate generation.

Passives that end up being useless are obviously bad. However, it’s worth pointing out that making some unproblematic passives worse feels like an insult when there are passives that desperately need buffs because they either do not impact skills outside their line (e.g., Dark Veil) or increase a stat with very limited utility (e.g., Elder Dragon). The many passives and skill lines in need of significant buffs are something I’ll touch on later.

*: Catalyst now granting Major Heroism is an exception, but this passive is also obviated, just by a skill (Trample) instead of a potion.

Replenishing Barrier and Shooting Star: Replenishing Barrier is essentially useless without the ultimate return. No one will be using it. Again: ultimate generation is fun and has not proven to be disruptive. And given that the note to Shooting Star’s change acknowledges that the cases of dramatic ult return are very few, taking away its unique uncapped ultimate return seems almost petty.

Nightblade: The Nightblade changes are a microcosm of the dissonance between the balance team and players at all levels. Adding Major Savagery and Prophecy to Grim Focus is a sensible change: the buff fits with the Assassination line both thematically and mechanically. However, removing the unique weapon damage does not address the issue of Grim Focus’ morphs being used purely passively, and is only going to lead to player frustration. Why? Because players are going to continue to use these skills passively in certain scenarios for the buffs to critical chance from Major Savagery/Prophecy and Pressure Points. As players can easily source Major Savagery/Prophecy from other skills, the result is a net loss in power in many scenarios without the behavioral change (active use of the skill) the devs seem to want to see; it seems that neither the developers nor the players will be happy. For some reason, the broader developer strategy with respect to balance is to take our toys away instead of giving us new ones to play with when something the devs don’t like happens, and as a long-time (~5 years) player, it is extremely frustrating. If more active use of Grim Focus’ morphs is what the devs want to see, why are players not being given greater incentive to actively use them? Passive weapon damage creep wouldn’t be a problem if, say, using the ability purged all stacks and resulted in a DoT or some other effect commensurate with the amount of stacks consumed. A strong enough effect when using the skill outside the damage from the bow shot could lead to more active use of the skill (satisfying the devs) and increase (or at least not decrease) the benefit of using a skill slot on Grim Focus, keeping players happy with their newfound power from u46.

The changes to the Shadow line highlight another way in which players and the devs are disconnected: Shadow Cloak is being nerfed despite being almost totally absent from PvE and niche in PvP with the advent of subclassing. If it seems like some skills and skill lines (e.g., Grim Focus and Assassination) are being taken too often, why does it signal to the developers that the relevant skills and lines are too good rather than that there is a dearth of realistic choices from the players’ point of view? Instead of being buffed to the point of being competitive with lines with higher pick rates, Shadow is being kicked while it’s down. This thread is full of comments demonstrating that players want a diverse array of fun, useful skill lines. The game gets less fun when the good options are cut down to be in line with the bad ones rather than vice versa. Making a game less fun is simply bizarre, and cannot actually be what the developers want; there has to be some form of miscommunication between players and developers somewhere. Perhaps class reps need to come back. Perhaps the balance team needs to communicate more directly with the game’s content creators and high-level players. Regardless, the current approach to balance seems to engender mutual dissatisfaction, and the Nightblade changes are a perfect example.

Sorcerer: To prevent this post from being even longer than it already is, I’ll just note the sorcerer changes run into the same issues I’ve mentioned above, and other people in this thread have pointed out: the relevant lines are being changed drastically in a way that makes them worse when they instead need buffs of some sort (especially in PvE).

Balorgh: I just want to quickly point out that the change to this set is deeply counterintuitive, as ultimate abilities, especially the destruction staff ultimate commonly paired with Balorgh, are typically cast before combat starts. This change feels disconnected and unnecessary.

randconfig · July 13

tomofhyrule wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Still waiting.

"player choice remains at the forefront of ESO's design philosophy" . . .

Unless you're an Arcanist, as now ZOS has gutted the class mastery script, so you cannot generate crux to have access to the class passives or to use crux consumption abilities when you want to use nonclass abilities, scribed abilities, or subclassed abilities. You will use runeblades and beam and you will like it.

As has been mentioned in the other two threads complaining about Arcanist Class Mastery:

Only Banner Bearer was changed. The Arcanist Class Mastery to create Crux still works on all other Scribed skills exactly as it did before. I went on PTS and tested it - I cast Torchbearer with the Class Mastery and got a Crux. I cast it again and got a second. I cast it again and got a third.

You are still perfectly able to use all Scribed skills except one as spammables to generate Crux. The only Scribed skill that has a different action with the Arcanist Class Mastery is Banner Bearer, and it's specifically to prevent Crux from infinitely generating passively.

Apologies, I gave up on reading replies on my other thread given people were not engaging with anything I was saying. That makes it slightly better that I can at least have some choice with scribing abilities for Arcanist. However . . .

Suppose as an Arcanist, I want to subclass Grave Lord and use Flaming Skull, or I want to use Snipe from the Bow skill line:

Neither ability generates crux.
Arcanist class passives like Hideous Clarity only work when I generate or consume crux.
I cannot consume crux that I have not generated, so Tentacular Dread and Fatecarver are useless abilities in this scenario and I do not benefit from class passives like Hideous Clarity.
Maybe I could rely on Tome Bearer's Inspiration or the changed class mastery script with bannerbearer to generate a single crux when I have none with a 5 second cooldown. So I would generate a single crux that doesn't expire until after 30 seconds, so passives like Hideous Clarity would proc once every 30-35 seconds.
Before the U47 proposed changes to bannerbearer crux generation, I would proc the passive every 5 seconds, and I would be able to run a consumption ability like Tentacular Dread or Fatecarver as I would be able to get full crux after 15 seconds, and I would be able to run Flaming Skull or Snipe, as I'm still benefiting from my class passives and able to make use of my base class abilities.
With the U47 proposed changes, I'm forced to run only runeblade or wield soul, instead of subclassing to use Flaming Skull or using Snipe, as that is the only way I would be able to benefit from my passives and be able to use my other class abilities. This is the opposite of "player choice remains at the forefront of ESO's design philosophy".

So my argument then becomes why are you removing the only solution Arcanist has to enable using subclassing and weapon skills without giving us an alternative solution to replace it?

BasP · July 13

If Storm Calling is intended to be a DPS line, could you please buff Mages' Fury? It's the worst execute in the game and doesn't see much use in PvE (especially now that subclassing gives everyone access to good execute abilities such as Radiant Destruction and Assassin's Blade).

I do like the fact that Mages' Fury deals AoE damage and get that it shouldn't deal as much damage on a single target as the aforementioned abilities. But the damage and execute threshold of Mages' Fury are so low right now, that both could be increased without making the skill overpowered.

universal_wrath · July 13

BasP wrote: »

If Storm Calling is intended to be a DPS line, could you please buff Mages' Fury? It's the worst execute in the game and doesn't see much use in PvE (especially now that subclassing gives everyone access to good execute abilities such as Radiant Destruction and Assassin's Blade).

I do like the fact that Mages' Fury deals AoE damage and get that it shouldn't deal as much damage on a single target as the aforementioned abilities. But the damage and execute threshold of Mages' Fury are so low right now, that both could be increased without making the skill overpowered.

Mage fury dwals pifiul damage in comparison to other excuse, it is just about ~15% more damage than a spammable. Both morphs surely need better scaling in damage and threshold. Currently you are better off to use any other skill than mage fury and if you really neef excute, you have subclassing, even dual wield excute is better.

tomofhyrule · July 13

randconfig wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Still waiting.

"player choice remains at the forefront of ESO's design philosophy" . . .

Unless you're an Arcanist, as now ZOS has gutted the class mastery script, so you cannot generate crux to have access to the class passives or to use crux consumption abilities when you want to use nonclass abilities, scribed abilities, or subclassed abilities. You will use runeblades and beam and you will like it.

As has been mentioned in the other two threads complaining about Arcanist Class Mastery:

Only Banner Bearer was changed. The Arcanist Class Mastery to create Crux still works on all other Scribed skills exactly as it did before. I went on PTS and tested it - I cast Torchbearer with the Class Mastery and got a Crux. I cast it again and got a second. I cast it again and got a third.

You are still perfectly able to use all Scribed skills except one as spammables to generate Crux. The only Scribed skill that has a different action with the Arcanist Class Mastery is Banner Bearer, and it's specifically to prevent Crux from infinitely generating passively.

Apologies, I gave up on reading replies on my other thread given people were not engaging with anything I was saying. That makes it slightly better that I can at least have some choice with scribing abilities for Arcanist. However . . .

Suppose as an Arcanist, I want to subclass Grave Lord and use Flaming Skull, or I want to use Snipe from the Bow skill line:
Neither ability generates crux.

Arcanist class passives like Hideous Clarity only work when I generate or consume crux.

I cannot consume crux that I have not generated, so Tentacular Dread and Fatecarver are useless abilities in this scenario and I do not benefit from class passives like Hideous Clarity.

Maybe I could rely on Tome Bearer's Inspiration or the changed class mastery script with bannerbearer to generate a single crux when I have none with a 5 second cooldown. So I would generate a single crux that doesn't expire until after 30 seconds, so passives like Hideous Clarity would proc once every 30-35 seconds.

Before the U47 proposed changes to bannerbearer crux generation, I would proc the passive every 5 seconds, and I would be able to run a consumption ability like Tentacular Dread or Fatecarver as I would be able to get full crux after 15 seconds, and I would be able to run Flaming Skull or Snipe, as I'm still benefiting from my class passives and able to make use of my base class abilities.

With the U47 proposed changes, I'm forced to run only runeblade or wield soul, instead of subclassing to use Flaming Skull or using Snipe, as that is the only way I would be able to benefit from my passives and be able to use my other class abilities. This is the opposite of "player choice remains at the forefront of ESO's design philosophy".

So my argument then becomes why are you removing the only solution Arcanist has to enable using subclassing and weapon skills without giving us an alternative solution to replace it?

But this is precisely the problem that it's trying to address - not elegantly, but that's the issue. Crux should not be able to passively generate, under any circumstance, without you actively casting something to build it.

Which means you would need to slot a Crux builder. It can be any Scribed ability or an Arcanist skill, but the entire idea of the Class is that you should not be able to generate Crux without actively pushing some skill in order to do so.
(and in fact, that's one of the issues people have with Subclassing in general, in that just stacking passives to get buffs without having to actively use any skills is abysmal balance)

So no, it's not "removing the only solution Arcanist has to enable using subclassing and weapon skills." It's just asking you to use a Scribed weapon skill, or to slot one extra Class skill in order to generate Crux.

halfmanhalfamazing · July 13

In Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), many players enjoy the purity of the original class abilities without feeling forced to subclass or alter their core skills. Both Nightblade's Grim Focus and Sorcerer's Hurricane Majority Resolve are prime examples of abilities that some players believe should be left untouched for the following reason:

Maintaining Class Identity and Player Choice:

The core philosophy of ESO revolves around player choice and the flexibility to customize abilities within the established class structure. When players select a class like Nightblade or Sorcerer, they are committing to a unique playstyle that is built around the distinct strengths of their class skill lines. For many players, the joy and identity of their character comes from mastering these abilities in their unaltered, original form.

1. Grim Focus (Nightblade) – Preservation of Core Identity:
Grim Focus is a core ability for Nightblades, allowing them to focus their energy for increased damage output and an additional buff. Many players choose the Nightblade class specifically for its stealthy, high-damage potential, and the ability to engage in a focused, tactical combat style. Altering or overbuffing Grim Focus could result in a shift in how players approach the Nightblade, taking away from its essence as a class that is designed to be swift, deadly, and subtle. The power balance could be disrupted, making it harder for pure Nightblade players to maintain their unique flavor in combat.

2. Hurricane Majority Resolve (Sorcerer) – Keeping Sorcery a True Art:
Similarly, Hurricane Majority Resolve (or Hurricane in its original form) is an essential skill in a Sorcerer's toolkit, especially for those who want to maintain high mobility while delivering area-of-effect (AoE) damage. The skill embodies the Sorcerer’s theme of manipulation of elemental forces—particularly wind and lightning. For Sorcerers who enjoy the fluidity of their character’s abilities, changes to Hurricane might push them towards a playstyle that is less representative of their original vision.

While there are alternative abilities players can choose to tweak their performance, some may prefer to stick with the core skills, as they represent the heart of the class. Altering or overpowering these skills could disrupt the sense of class identity, especially for those who do not wish to subclass or use the hybridized or experimental options.

The Pure Experience:
The idea of not subclassing or using the "maximized" versions of these skills is central to the experience of many purists who wish to play the game in a more "vanilla" or traditional form. By leaving these skills alone, the game allows players to embrace the strengths and weaknesses of their original class design, creating a more authentic and rewarding experience. It preserves the balance and nuanced role that each class is meant to play in group dynamics or solo content.

In summary:
Allowing Grim Focus and Hurricane Majority Resolve to remain unchanged respects the integrity of the original skill sets, honoring the intention behind the class design and providing players the freedom to master their characters without the need for external adjustments. This approach fosters player creativity while ensuring that the classic ESO experience remains untouched for those who value the original design choices.

preevious · July 13

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I do not understand why the push to nerf arcanist. It is the most popular as it has easy rotation without the need to ligh attack weave.
There are several class combinations without the arcanist beams that deal more DPS but they are all the same boring ones that require you to ligh attack weave (or as I say it "macro light attack when casting each skill") Please do not force us to get back to that.

The banner barrier Crux change is pointless as we already use as spell that grant crux when we have none

The push is because, while there are a few builds that parse better, they are few and far between.
Arcabeam is one of the most powerful build for single target.

Problem is, it is also by far the very, very best build for AOE (doing as far as twice the damage of the next best build)

Also, it's incredibely easy to use (while it's not a bad thing par se, the fact that it's the best build AND the easier is incredibly bad for the game)

It's completely overboard and must be nerfed, lest the game is renamed "Elder Arcanists Online"

Freelancer_ESO · July 13

I'm not presently done with any of my builds so this doesn't totally wreck things for me but, some of it does put a bit of a damper on some options I'd potentially have considered. Obviously, for people that have set builds especially ones they've been using for years this would be a bit more disruptive.

Shifting the passive forms of gaining Ultimate to be Minor Heroism significantly devalues the item sets and skills that offer Minor Heroism.

For example, Reawakened Hierophant and Gardener of the Seasons take pretty significant hits to their value with Minor Heroism becoming more common.

Personally, I was considering running Shadow Cloak on some of my characters because it's fun to stealth and getting the passive Crit Buff is enough value to not worry too much about it not being totally optimal. Minor Protection is common enough that it's simply not something to get excited about.

Dark Cloak requiring blocking makes the ability feel far more boring to me because I personally hate blocking for extended periods. I'm not sure Dark Cloak really needed a hit to duration. Frankly, Shadow really doesn't look that good as a line at this point.

The changes to Grim Focus raise the value of the Assassination line for people that didn't already have easy access to Major Prophecy and Savagery and reduces the value of the line for people that already had it. Please do consider putting in a skill style for Grim Focus or an ability to hide the visual for yourself if you stick with it having Major Prophecy/Savagery. I don't want my characters to need to glow red much of the time to get a generally needed buff.

For me, the value of the Storm Calling line significantly drops with Lightning Form losing Major Resolve for Minor Force for any build that doesn't have an alternative source of Major Resolve.

The value of Daedric Summoning for me generally goes up (I had some build ideas for running really high max magicka that are taking a hit from the change but those builds were a bit odd...) with the changes but, I don't really love the visuals of the summons so for many of my builds it still may end up not getting used. You also do hit the issue that the boring build of just using it as a passive

I don't feel that the balance changes really do enough regarding Herald of the Tome. I recently have been running it up again with subclassing on my two accounts after running up the other DPS lines and the line is just plain better than the competition both because it does a bit too much damage and because parts of it's line offer both phenomenal AOE damage and also offer defensive capabilities.

I would suggest reducing the damage bonus of Fatecarver when you have Crux by a little bit (With Pragmatic Fatecarver taking a bit more of a hit as I really do not see much of a reason to ever take the other Morph).

I would also suggest slightly reducing the damage increase over time of The Languid Eye, the damage increase of Abyssal Impact/Cephaliarch's Flail on targets covered in ink, and the damage done by Tome-Bearer's Inspiration.

I would also like to note that if you make the lines overlap too much, you can end up making the build choices drop. For example, Ardent Flame, Assassination, and Daedric Summoning all now have a skill that when passively slotted grants Major Prophecy/Savagery and that when actively hit deals damage. If I select one of those skills it's reasonably likely that if min-maxing I will not be picking the other lines with said abilities if the lines are otherwise balanced.

Lebensf0rm · July 13

preevious wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I do not understand why the push to nerf arcanist. It is the most popular as it has easy rotation without the need to ligh attack weave.
There are several class combinations without the arcanist beams that deal more DPS but they are all the same boring ones that require you to ligh attack weave (or as I say it "macro light attack when casting each skill") Please do not force us to get back to that.

The banner barrier Crux change is pointless as we already use as spell that grant crux when we have none

The push is because, while there are a few builds that parse better, they are few and far between.
Arcabeam is one of the most powerful build for single target.

Problem is, it is also by far the very, very best build for AOE (doing as far as twice the damage of the next best build)

Also, it's incredibely easy to use (while it's not a bad thing par se, the fact that it's the best build AND the easier is incredibly bad for the game)

It's completely overboard and must be nerfed, lest the game is renamed "Elder Arcanists Online"

This is the sort of approach to adjusting the game's balance that I think is entirely backwards. Taking power away from players feels bad and should be avoided unless the behavior granted by the power is totally disruptive. I think what's making beam overtuned in the game's current state is the passive crux generation granted by banner, and that's being addressed (albeit imperfectly). The problem isn't that arc is too good. Rather, it's that the other classes simply aren't good enough with respect to AoE damage output. It's probably fine that beam remains king in AoE burst scenarios like trash pulls, but other lines need tweaks or help from sets so that they can compete or pull ahead in sustained AoE fights. There are endless ways to do this. Corpseburster already helps cro out, and there are similarly thematic ways to help other classes. For instance, Monolith of Storms could be reworked along with the Storm Calling line to make a more powerful chain-lightning-like effect possible. And Ardent Flame's Searing Heat is incredibly weak: why not play into the line's Flame AoE theme and have it make burning targets near each other take dramatically increased flame damage? We can decrease the prevalence of beam in ways that are both thematic and fun without hurting player power.

pinkpom · July 13

TaxiDriver2116 wrote: »

The change to Grim Focus is disappointing but understandable because of its strength for subclassing. However, pure Nightblades need a way to make up for this loss in damage. Something like getting 300-500 weapon damage for standing in your own Twisting Path would be perfect, as it wouldn’t be making Assassination too strong, and Shadow needs some love.

However, ZOS wants to make the Shadow skill line a tank skill line.
I don't think a damage buff will be added to Shadow skill line.

Desiato · July 13

The change to Rush of Agony is going to completely ruin it for PVE.

When tanking normal dungeons, I use Rush of Agony for trash pulls and it's great.

There is some skill to it. If one just uses a gap gloser and stands where it hits, the enemies it pulls in are only loosely stacked. However, if they keep moving, perhaps towards another group that wasn't pulled, they all get stacked tight.

Shouldn't skillful play be encouraged? With the u47 change, I don't foresee using it anymore.

On the other hand, this set is nearly universally hated by PVP players. In the lag of Cyrodiil, holding block doesn't always work, but more than that it's extremely disruptive to frontline melee combatants who have other things to worry about and don't need a set playing the game for a player. It's not conducive to fun gameplay.

I understand the set can be exploited, but instead of ruining it in PVE, please consider giving it the azureblight treatment and just make the pull affect monsters.

It will be win/win for ZOS. The PVP playerbase will celebrate and the PVE players who currently use it won't be resentful.

softyoung · July 14

This kind of patching seems to avoid the fundamental problem.
For example, in MOBA genre games, it's like nerfing an overwhelmingly OP hero/champion's favorite item in order to weaken them.
They can simply use a different item, then victim will be others.

It is obvious that Beam is strong. So the meta build will naturally be a way to amplify it.
This is just to move Beam users to Templar-based and change the rhythm from 2/4 to 3/4.

Also if really want to respect pure classes, all passives that are affected by the number of specific line skills should be changed based on the number of class skills.

madmufffin · July 14

BasP wrote: »

If Storm Calling is intended to be a DPS line, could you please buff Mages' Fury? It's the worst execute in the game and doesn't see much use in PvE (especially now that subclassing gives everyone access to good execute abilities such as Radiant Destruction and Assassin's Blade).

I do like the fact that Mages' Fury deals AoE damage and get that it shouldn't deal as much damage on a single target as the aforementioned abilities. But the damage and execute threshold of Mages' Fury are so low right now, that both could be increased without making the skill overpowered.

Low base damage, horrific threshold, delayed damage for whatever reason, and an awful animation that doesn't play nice with any form of server lag

demonology89 · July 14

I don't know when you guys stopped listening to player feedback. I remember before Murkmire dropped, there was an insane change wanting to be implemented on sorcs and their shields. You guys wanted to add a cast time to them. And I remember the outrage amongst the players. It was enough of an outrage (with good feedback as to why cast times are bad) that you guys reversed the change. Maybe my memory is foggy, but that is the last time I remember ZOS keeping an open mind, seeing the negative feedback and decided against implementing the change. What has happened since then?

The only feedback I can ask that you guys keep an open mind and possibly reverse action on is the change to class passives that provide ulti gen. Changing these passives to only provide minor heroism is essentially making them useless. There's so many better options in the game to utilize minor heroism with much better uptimes. These will become dead passives with nothing being given in return. Adding minor heroism to these unique passives is just not the way to go.

Zyaneth_Bal · July 14

madmufffin wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

If Storm Calling is intended to be a DPS line, could you please buff Mages' Fury? It's the worst execute in the game and doesn't see much use in PvE (especially now that subclassing gives everyone access to good execute abilities such as Radiant Destruction and Assassin's Blade).

I do like the fact that Mages' Fury deals AoE damage and get that it shouldn't deal as much damage on a single target as the aforementioned abilities. But the damage and execute threshold of Mages' Fury are so low right now, that both could be increased without making the skill overpowered.

Low base damage, horrific threshold, delayed damage for whatever reason, and an awful animation that doesn't play nice with any form of server lag

demonology89 wrote: »

I don't know when you guys stopped listening to player feedback. I remember before Murkmire dropped, there was an insane change wanting to be implemented on sorcs and their shields. You guys wanted to add a cast time to them. And I remember the outrage amongst the players. It was enough of an outrage (with good feedback as to why cast times are bad) that you guys reversed the change. Maybe my memory is foggy, but that is the last time I remember ZOS keeping an open mind, seeing the negative feedback and decided against implementing the change. What has happened since then?

The only feedback I can ask that you guys keep an open mind and possibly reverse action on is the change to class passives that provide ulti gen. Changing these passives to only provide minor heroism is essentially making them useless. There's so many better options in the game to utilize minor heroism with much better uptimes. These will become dead passives with nothing being given in return. Adding minor heroism to these unique passives is just not the way to go.

To be honest u47 changes to sorc are comparably tone-deaf. Class is is already struggling to stay competitive but they still nerf it. Shields playstyle is literally dead but they are so obsessed with nerfing it and not making it good that they nerf it again, akin to kicking a corpse. Same way as they nerfed mages’ fury in u46. How can such changes even make it through.

Personally, my main issue with new ult gen passives isn’t that they are weaker but that now they are all exactly the same. Homogenization has drained a lot of flavour and diversity from the game over the years and has only been gaining momentum, especially with multiclassing, making the game feel even more bland. When multiclassing has already caused great damage to the game, it’s just not as interesting anymore when all you see in pve and especially pvp are literally a couple of iterations of one same build because of how of a huge gap in power between different lines and playstyles. Sure you can play a build of prefered flavour and theme and that will work in pve but in pvp where your build is always weighted against your opponents’ this is just impossible.

got a bit off-topic but the issue is the same

MincMincMinc · July 14

randconfig wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Still waiting.

"player choice remains at the forefront of ESO's design philosophy" . . .

Unless you're an Arcanist, as now ZOS has gutted the class mastery script, so you cannot generate crux to have access to the class passives or to use crux consumption abilities when you want to use nonclass abilities, scribed abilities, or subclassed abilities. You will use runeblades and beam and you will like it.

Yeah that "no desire to reduce pure class effectiveness" Literally has no possible way of coming true. They would have to balance all of the skill lines on their own to provide damage, tank, and heals by themselves. Otherwise if certain skill lines become "damage" skill lines then you will see people only running 3 damage skill lines. So instead of 7 classes in pve you will only see a sole meta 3 skill line setup each patch. PvP has already boiled down to slotting only damage skill lines.

ArctosCethlenn · July 14

Zos should just entirely remove Dark Veil and Enduring Rays and replace them with non-dead passives, esp. now with veil being nerfed to not work with the healing cloak.

+2s duration to a handful of skills is hilariously bad.

CAB_Life · July 14

It was inevitable they would have to nerf things after raising the power level so high. The reasonable amongst us—or those that have been here since the beginning—knew this would happen. I’m not sure why they started with Sorc instead of Arcanist beam though—that one is a head-scratcher. Why are they still pretending as if they don’t know what the outliers are? Also, probably controversial, but I like the consolidation and clean up of OG class lines and buffs. They need to apply that methodology across the board, though. Rip off the bandaid at once and let the community heal instead of these piecemeal patches and changes that are consistently disruptive and annoying.

MincMincMinc · July 14

CAB_Life wrote: »

It was inevitable they would have to nerf things after raising the power level so high. The reasonable amongst us—or those that have been here since the beginning—knew this would happen. I’m not sure why they started with Sorc instead of Arcanist beam though—that one is a head-scratcher. Why are they still pretending as if they don’t know what the outliers are? Also, probably controversial, but I like the consolidation and clean up of OG class lines and buffs. They need to apply that methodology across the board, though. Rip off the bandaid at once and let the community heal instead of these piecemeal patches and changes that are consistently disruptive and annoying.

Consolidating the OG skill lines to conform to the tank line, heal line, and damage line has horrible implications for power creep though. People effectively went from 1/3 of their skill lines being damage to 3/3 of their skill lines.

Either all 21 skill lines need to be balanced with tank/heal/dps on their own or there needs to be a restriction in place preventing you from picking all damage skill lines. Otherwise nothing is stopping you from running the top 3 damage skill lines each patch. Considering how many people cry over no build choice template pvp, it wont be healthy to go from 7 classes with 21 skill lines to choose from down to 1 BiS dps setup.

Currently we are in limbo with a half thought through system.

GloatingSwine · July 14

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CAB_Life wrote: »

It was inevitable they would have to nerf things after raising the power level so high. The reasonable amongst us—or those that have been here since the beginning—knew this would happen. I’m not sure why they started with Sorc instead of Arcanist beam though—that one is a head-scratcher. Why are they still pretending as if they don’t know what the outliers are? Also, probably controversial, but I like the consolidation and clean up of OG class lines and buffs. They need to apply that methodology across the board, though. Rip off the bandaid at once and let the community heal instead of these piecemeal patches and changes that are consistently disruptive and annoying.

Consolidating the OG skill lines to conform to the tank line, heal line, and damage line has horrible implications for power creep though. People effectively went from 1/3 of their skill lines being damage to 3/3 of their skill lines.

Either all 21 skill lines need to be balanced with tank/heal/dps on their own or there needs to be a restriction in place preventing you from picking all damage skill lines. Otherwise nothing is stopping you from running the top 3 damage skill lines each patch. Considering how many people cry over no build choice template pvp, it wont be healthy to go from 7 classes with 21 skill lines to choose from down to 1 BiS dps setup.

Currently we are in limbo with a half thought through system.

That's already happened though. Herald of the Tome and Assassination are taken more than twice as often as any other skill line (among people who are actually trying to optimise the system).

At least if every class' DPS line had a reasonably similar amount of accessible power in it then there would be more viable combinations of three than "Herald/Assassination/Your choice of spice (but usually Dawn's Wrath).

What you fear is already upon us, and the toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube whilst Fatecarver exists because as a 4s exclusive channel all of the power of Herald has to be bound up in it.

(I don't think the changes to grim focus will change this, the passives on Assassination are just too good to skip it even without that 300/400WS)

madmufffin · July 14

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

If Storm Calling is intended to be a DPS line, could you please buff Mages' Fury? It's the worst execute in the game and doesn't see much use in PvE (especially now that subclassing gives everyone access to good execute abilities such as Radiant Destruction and Assassin's Blade).

I do like the fact that Mages' Fury deals AoE damage and get that it shouldn't deal as much damage on a single target as the aforementioned abilities. But the damage and execute threshold of Mages' Fury are so low right now, that both could be increased without making the skill overpowered.

Low base damage, horrific threshold, delayed damage for whatever reason, and an awful animation that doesn't play nice with any form of server lag

demonology89 wrote: »

I don't know when you guys stopped listening to player feedback. I remember before Murkmire dropped, there was an insane change wanting to be implemented on sorcs and their shields. You guys wanted to add a cast time to them. And I remember the outrage amongst the players. It was enough of an outrage (with good feedback as to why cast times are bad) that you guys reversed the change. Maybe my memory is foggy, but that is the last time I remember ZOS keeping an open mind, seeing the negative feedback and decided against implementing the change. What has happened since then?

The only feedback I can ask that you guys keep an open mind and possibly reverse action on is the change to class passives that provide ulti gen. Changing these passives to only provide minor heroism is essentially making them useless. There's so many better options in the game to utilize minor heroism with much better uptimes. These will become dead passives with nothing being given in return. Adding minor heroism to these unique passives is just not the way to go.

To be honest u47 changes to sorc are comparably tone-deaf. Class is is already struggling to stay competitive but they still nerf it. Shields playstyle is literally dead but they are so obsessed with nerfing it and not making it good that they nerf it again, akin to kicking a corpse. Same way as they nerfed mages’ fury in u46. How can such changes even make it through.

Personally, my main issue with new ult gen passives isn’t that they are weaker but that now they are all exactly the same. Homogenization has drained a lot of flavour and diversity from the game over the years and has only been gaining momentum, especially with multiclassing, making the game feel even more bland. When multiclassing has already caused great damage to the game, it’s just not as interesting anymore when all you see in pve and especially pvp are literally a couple of iterations of one same build because of how of a huge gap in power between different lines and playstyles. Sure you can play a build of prefered flavour and theme and that will work in pve but in pvp where your build is always weighted against your opponents’ this is just impossible.

got a bit off-topic but the issue is the same

If atro didn't exist, Sorc would see next to 0 play in PVE... and they still nerfed the class lmao

Lebensf0rm · July 14

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Zos should just entirely remove Dark Veil and Enduring Rays and replace them with non-dead passives, esp. now with veil being nerfed to not work with the healing cloak.

+2s duration to a handful of skills is hilariously bad.

This. Subclassing has highlighted a number of extremely weak passives. Dark Veil, Enduring Rays, Searing Heat, and Eternal Mountain are in urgent need of reworks. The duration bonuses should be baked into the relevant skills and the new effects should be strong and flexible enough to help make the relevant lines more competitive in the subclassing system. Shadow is more or less a dead line now. Ardent Flame and Dawn's Wrath really only show up to buff Arcanist skills in PvE. Earthen Heart is a lock on one tank in a raid composition, but that's about it.

On the subject of bad passives, Emerald Moss is also worth mentioning for being limited to only affecting Green Balance skills. This is a bizarre choice when Curative Curse, Near-Death Experience, and Mending are not similarly limited.

Editing to mention some other bizarre imbalances: Iron Skin (only block mit) should get some love to be more similar to Piercing Cold and Sacred Ground (A strong effect + block mit). Similarly, passives granting group-wide minor buffs like Exploitation and Illuminate need to be brought in line with Hemorrhage and the live server's version of Mountain's Blessing.

preevious · July 14

Lebensf0rm wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I do not understand why the push to nerf arcanist. It is the most popular as it has easy rotation without the need to ligh attack weave.
There are several class combinations without the arcanist beams that deal more DPS but they are all the same boring ones that require you to ligh attack weave (or as I say it "macro light attack when casting each skill") Please do not force us to get back to that.

The banner barrier Crux change is pointless as we already use as spell that grant crux when we have none

The push is because, while there are a few builds that parse better, they are few and far between.
Arcabeam is one of the most powerful build for single target.

Problem is, it is also by far the very, very best build for AOE (doing as far as twice the damage of the next best build)

Also, it's incredibely easy to use (while it's not a bad thing par se, the fact that it's the best build AND the easier is incredibly bad for the game)

It's completely overboard and must be nerfed, lest the game is renamed "Elder Arcanists Online"

This is the sort of approach to adjusting the game's balance that I think is entirely backwards. Taking power away from players feels bad and should be avoided unless the behavior granted by the power is totally disruptive. I think what's making beam overtuned in the game's current state is the passive crux generation granted by banner, and that's being addressed (albeit imperfectly). The problem isn't that arc is too good. Rather, it's that the other classes simply aren't good enough with respect to AoE damage output. It's probably fine that beam remains king in AoE burst scenarios like trash pulls, but other lines need tweaks or help from sets so that they can compete or pull ahead in sustained AoE fights. There are endless ways to do this. Corpseburster already helps cro out, and there are similarly thematic ways to help other classes. For instance, Monolith of Storms could be reworked along with the Storm Calling line to make a more powerful chain-lightning-like effect possible. And Ardent Flame's Searing Heat is incredibly weak: why not play into the line's Flame AoE theme and have it make burning targets near each other take dramatically increased flame damage? We can decrease the prevalence of beam in ways that are both thematic and fun without hurting player power.

Well, yes, when I say arcabeamers are overperforming, it's of course relative to other builds.
Wether the nerf it or buff everything else, the problem would be solved.

However, we both know that they won't buff everything ..

madmufffin · July 14

One day they'll buff bad things instead of just gimping good things... one day

Lebensf0rm · July 14

preevious wrote: »

Lebensf0rm wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

I do not understand why the push to nerf arcanist. It is the most popular as it has easy rotation without the need to ligh attack weave.
There are several class combinations without the arcanist beams that deal more DPS but they are all the same boring ones that require you to ligh attack weave (or as I say it "macro light attack when casting each skill") Please do not force us to get back to that.

The banner barrier Crux change is pointless as we already use as spell that grant crux when we have none

The push is because, while there are a few builds that parse better, they are few and far between.
Arcabeam is one of the most powerful build for single target.

Problem is, it is also by far the very, very best build for AOE (doing as far as twice the damage of the next best build)

Also, it's incredibely easy to use (while it's not a bad thing par se, the fact that it's the best build AND the easier is incredibly bad for the game)

It's completely overboard and must be nerfed, lest the game is renamed "Elder Arcanists Online"

This is the sort of approach to adjusting the game's balance that I think is entirely backwards. Taking power away from players feels bad and should be avoided unless the behavior granted by the power is totally disruptive. I think what's making beam overtuned in the game's current state is the passive crux generation granted by banner, and that's being addressed (albeit imperfectly). The problem isn't that arc is too good. Rather, it's that the other classes simply aren't good enough with respect to AoE damage output. It's probably fine that beam remains king in AoE burst scenarios like trash pulls, but other lines need tweaks or help from sets so that they can compete or pull ahead in sustained AoE fights. There are endless ways to do this. Corpseburster already helps cro out, and there are similarly thematic ways to help other classes. For instance, Monolith of Storms could be reworked along with the Storm Calling line to make a more powerful chain-lightning-like effect possible. And Ardent Flame's Searing Heat is incredibly weak: why not play into the line's Flame AoE theme and have it make burning targets near each other take dramatically increased flame damage? We can decrease the prevalence of beam in ways that are both thematic and fun without hurting player power.

Well, yes, when I say arcabeamers are overperforming, it's of course relative to other builds.
Wether the nerf it or buff everything else, the problem would be solved.

However, we both know that they won't buff everything ..

Is it likely they balance with buffs instead of nerfs? No; you're right. But I still wanna scream into the void like it might happen.