PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities Changes

ZOS_Kevin · July 8

This is the official feedback thread for current class balance and abilities changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance. Please keep in mind that many of the updates related to classes and abilities are with Subclassing post-U46 in mind.

coop500 · July 8

Horrible, stop nerfing everything, remember Oakensoul and werewolves exists, unnerf pearls, buff things nobody uses anymore.

Alaztor91 · July 8

Still waiting.

Tariq9898 · July 8

Please incentivize Pure class by providing unique bonuses!

AdmiralDigby · July 8

It's absolutely terrible.... below are from a PVE HM consideration.

Current Issues:
- Pureclass's are dinosaurs and completely obsolete.
- Arc beam has so much cleave (while still having good ST dmg) no other setup can really compete in PVE.
- Cleave is extremely important for DLC HM content. With Azure gone, Arc is really the only viable source of it.

Easy Solutions:
- Some sort of buff for each same class skill tree you have. Ie: +5% damage and mitigation for every same tree you have (15% total).
- Arc beam gets nerfed. It deals less damage to targets behind first target (similar to old jabs). Adjusted to feel.
- Azure nerfs are reverted. Beam Arcs can't proc it that well anymore. Other comps can use Azure to compete with Arc clear until you find other solutions to balance the skill trees.

The game has never been in such a terribly balanced state. I see people dropping the game daily. The new & shiny is wearing off of subclassing and people are seeing the GLARING issues with it. Oh also, Azure was so important to clear times, any fight that it was used clear times got slower. That's right. damage on paper went up by 30-40%. Yet clear times for HM's (most of them at least) got slower. What this means is basically you HAVE to play arc in order to around the same damage you did prior to subclassing.

You can "Play as you want" for overland where you can tickle the NPC's to death with light attack spams. In HM content. You can't play as you want. There is one build you can play. You didn't address that AT ALL. Come on??

CoolBlast3 · July 8

The Grim Focus change is warranted in some aspects, but the way you went about it is not the way to go.
Savagery and Prophecy are extremely common buffs, and aren't really a valid replacement.

Some suggestions:

Replace savagery and prophecy with a unique, stackable crit chance buff instead
Keep the weapon/spell damage, but put it on a timer. Every time you generate a pip of Grim Focus you gain them for a few seconds, generating new pips increases the time. But they will decay and no longer generate at max stacks. This way people actually have to use the ability instead of slotting and forgetting
Make it so the wep/spell damage comes from -casting- the spectral arrow, not passive. This way people actually have to use the ability instead of slotting and forgetting

Nerfing Banner Bearer was great to balance Arcanist, but Arc is still overperforming. I do not know how to fix that, I'm sure others have given feedback many times though.

Necromancer is still in a weird spot. Can we have its bonuses also be "when active on any bar" please? Furthermore, can Grave Lord's Sacrifice finally be finished? I still think it should be scrapped and re-designed from the ground up, but if you want to keep it this way it needs some tuning to be more effective. Some random thoughts:

A simple number dmg increase might work for now, but still it's in an odd place.
An animation change would also make it feel so much better. Perhaps infusing yourself with spirits of the dead or a blast of soul magic on cast (which could also do damage, giving it a little extra kick!)
Make it so it affects abilities of -all- classes, but that on subclassed lines it only affects DoT class abilities. On necro it still affects all however. This way you reduce its effectiveness in the case of Arc beam and other broken combos, whilst still allowing for DoT play-ability in subclassing
See comments below, woopsie daisy on my end

Pureclasses need improvement so people do not feel punished for not subclassing. In a previous PTS one of your arguments, I think for a Sorc skill line, was quite literally "Just subclass if you don't think it's good" which is....not good. How is that "play how you want"? At the very least something like flat stat bonuses for keeping original lines. I'm sure you can get much more creative though!

CameraBeardThePirate · July 8

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

Make it so it affects abilities of -all- classes, but that on subclassed lines it only affects DoT class abilities. On necro it still affects all however. This way you reduce its effectiveness in the case of Arc beam and other broken combos, whilst still allowing for DoT play-ability in subclassing

This is already how it works. Sacrifice affects all DoTs and all Necro class abilities. This includes DoTs from other classes already.

It should still get a buff though.

drip_fromtheinkwell · July 8

I said it in my own thread, but I'll say it here too: there are a ton of concerning things to be seen: gutting sorcs... in general, really, but particularly their survivability and sustain at the expense of buffs that's already extremely easy to get, through scribing, sets, or skills. The relentless focus change is just nonsensical: there are so many ways to increase your critical damage rating that it'd be easier to think of how to keep it down. There's such redundancy in buffs that there's really no point in playing specific classes (or, class skill lines). We need a REASON to use under-used skill lines. Don't give players buffs that are already so easy to get for free.

On top of all of this, the one class that is demonstrably overperforming (take a look at the other threads in these forums and encounter logs if you don't believe it) hasn't been touched. Am I missing something? These changes are genuinely baffling and hurt anyone who doesn't take an arcanist skill tree.

The balance changes so far make me really wonder if they're actually listening to players, or even getting in there and testing themselves, or just looking at stuff on paper.

CoolBlast3 · July 8

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

Make it so it affects abilities of -all- classes, but that on subclassed lines it only affects DoT class abilities. On necro it still affects all however. This way you reduce its effectiveness in the case of Arc beam and other broken combos, whilst still allowing for DoT play-ability in subclassing

This is already how it works. Sacrifice affects all DoTs and all Necro class abilities. This includes DoTs from other classes already.

It should still get a buff though.

Looks like you're right, oops! I haven't actually ever used GLS outside one or two tests despite being a cro main since the class came out. (Which should just tell anyone how bad it is) I'll correct my original post

Marto · July 8

Grim Focus:
I agree that this skill is overtuned in Live. Getting free 400 weapon/spell damage on any skill just for slotting it is too much.

But this nerf might be a bit too much, especially for pure Nightblade builds whose class power was designed around them receiving this weapon/spell damage.

What about having it grant a ~250 weapon/spell damage buff when you activate the arrow? That way it still serves the purpose people are used to, but without being as strong, or being as passive.

Relentless Focus could get this damage bonus, while Merciless Resolve gets the higher heal, to preserve the theme of one morph being more DPS focused, while the other is more about the active skill.

Bound Armor:
I don't think the removal of the bonus magicka and stamina is a good idea. Part of the identity of the Daedric Summoning skill line is to have high magicka/stamina values, and this skill built upon that.

Storm Calling:
This skill has had Major Resolve on it for a long, long time. Is it really worth it to remove it? At the very least, make one morph more damage oriented with minor force, while the other is defensive.

If you think a damage skill having major resolve is too much, what about giving one or both of the morphs minor resolve and/or some version of minor/major evasion? That way it keeps the defensive capabilities players have come to expect.

Morvan · July 8

With most of the attention understandably shifting to class balance, I'd like to suggest some changes to the Vampire line that might help fill gaps as some subclassed combinations lack essential buffs, providing named buffs to this line would help with that.

Vampire

Mist Form
- Blood Mist: This could use Major Brutality/Sorcery, would also be great if the damage was brought up a bit, for example, Deadly Cloak functions similarly, has the same range and duration, but deals more damage that is increased even further by the Dual Wield passives, Blood Mist deserves to be on par with that.
- Elusive Mist: The buffs on this skill should definitely last longer, 4 seconds is way too low to make it a viable source for them.

Blood Frenzy: This skill really fails to compensate its own drawbacks, especially in group content, as it completely block you from not just being healed by others, but also from getting buffs triggered by overhealing like Major Courage from Spell Power Cure — which by itself gives you more damage than Frenzy. It would be nice if while unhealable any ally heal would automatically considered an overheal, and this skill could use a named buff like Minor Force — we seriously need alternatives to Barbed Trap.

Eviscerate: This skill and morphs are the best thing on this line, but it would be nice if it had Major Prophecy/Savagery while slotted.
- Blood for Blood: Just like my suggestion for Frenzy, the unhealable portion of this skill should make blocked healing from allies count as overhealing. This would ensure that even while you're unhealable, you can still benefit from sets with overhealing-based effects.

Vampiric Drain: This is one I rarely see on tank setups, it could definitely get some love — maybe give it some kind of blood damage shield if it overheals, some defensive named buffs would be nice too, like Minor/Major Vitality, Toughness or Protection — any of those would help.

Mesmerize: By far the most forgotten skill in this kit, I do like the concept and looks though, wish something new was done to it, like giving it Major Timidity if the stun hits, it's a debuff with no sources in game that would fit this skill's vibes really well.

MashmalloMan · July 8

You destroyed Sorcerer with your Hurricane/Boundless Storm change. We had this unique source of Major Resolve attached to a damage skill for 11 years and you ripped it out due to subclassing.

What's worse is you put it on Bound Aegis, forcing Stam Sorc's who want it, to give up 1/3 of their stamina morphs by tossing out Bound Armaments.

From a Stam Sorc perspective, we already had minor force via Dark Deal, we're getting Major Savagery from Bound Armaments, but we're forced to lose Major Resolve a much more difficult buff to get. I've wanted Major Savagery and Prophecy for a long time, I even suggested it be added to Bound Armaments, but realistically this is the worst way it could of been done.

1. If I want that buff, I'd rather use a potion then give up Major Resolve.
2. Bound Armaments is virtually the same as Relentless Focus at 4 stacks, 8 max, Major Savagery, except that skill deals 20% more damage, burst heals, and deals it's damage in 1 burst instead of over 1.2s in 4 hits. Why should I ever take Daedric Summoning over Assassination? Why.

From a Mag Sorc perspective, we already avoided Boundless/Hurricane for a monster set to save a skill slot. Generally we play from a distance and the aoe is too small to deal any damage since you refuse to buff the radius to match new melee range. Bound Aegis lost minor protection and 8% max Magicka to get something we already had, while gaining nothing. To top it off, you nerfed the passive in the line from 10% mag to 5% and removed the 15% heal from Hardened Ward. The only compensation was 5% mitigation in a passive which is reduced to 2-3% in real content due to diminishing returns. In conclusion, you've effectively killed Magicka Sorcerer over the course of 2 patches after feeling the need to buff them last year.

I was a strong supporter of subclassing, still am, but you're making it increasingly difficult to enjoy this game as I see classes be stripped away due to your balancing approach of nerf nerf nerf, instead of focussing on what needs to be improved.

Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning need to swap skills around. Passives need to be improved. Storm Calling is... Or should I say WAS great, but Mages Fury and Lightning Splash are still absolutely terrible abilities in their given categories.

Erickson9610 · July 8

Hey, thanks for the Infectious Claws, Verdant Green skill style!

Could we get Hircine's Bounty in Verdant Green next? Pounce would be my second pick for a Verdant Green skill style.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 8

Part of the idea & class identity of a NB (you know, an assassin) was to be able to open a fight with an ultimate. Since they were made to be an "assassin" class, it made perfect sense. It is even in class description:

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades, and speed, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive"

They get in, unload combo trying to kill & pray to be able to get out when something goes wrong. Hence why catalyst passive is pretty much I would say "a core NB passive". With it, they can do what they were designed to do. This is huge part of their identity. This passive also requires a an actual consumable (potion). So it has an item cost - and also gold cost since you don't have infinite potions - you need to buy them or craft them.

Converting it to flat buff would be bearable, if that was working out of combat, so being able to "refuel" would still be possible. Otherwise you are just killing class identity.

Now tell me zos.... do you really want people to fight random mudcrabs or wolves that often ? Cuz this is going to be the result. I am telling it to you now. It is not rocket science. From a player perspective, you are taking out-of combat ulti gen from a class that had it since day 1. Something like this can't be an accident. So your intention is (for whatever unknown reason) for that class to not have it anymore.

And the result will be what I have said - players who are used to have a ulti as an opener (look at NB skills & toolkit design) will now have to take break from a fight, find some mobs and fuel up. Do you really want that ?

MincMincMinc · July 8

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Please keep in mind that many of the updates related to classes and abilities are with Subclassing post-U46 in mind.

How was the change to sorc lightning form with subclassing in mind? This change was entirely with the thought process of a pure class system translating one buff in one sorc skill line to another? If you are going to design going forward with subclassing, you will need to independently evaluate skill lines entirely on their own. Class cohesion means nothing now. Why do you think nobody mainstream is playing into the corpse or crux system in PvP? Those systems only worked in a pure class environment.

The Hurricane armor ability has been the sole defining feature of stamsorc for almost 10 years now.

Combat wise it makes no sense because now you wont even see your resolve buff unless you rely on addon trackers. Hurricane and boundless are visually designed such that you can track your main defensive buff. Are you going to make hurricane and lightning form nolonger have a visual?

Balance wise in PvP there is already an issue of people only running damage lines with damage sets and damage cp, and now stormcalling has even more of the most potent form of damage available.

Then we get to the notion of " we want skills to be chosen for their active rolls......btw we slapped all these passive buffs onto these skills to give you a reason to slot them". Is vengeance teaching you nothing? The game does not need unnecessary bloat. What ever happened to making the skill do something? For bound armor how about the block mit returns resources based on hits. Or gives a shield based on hits. Spend 5 mins and throw darts at a board on something cool and interesting. Maybe people will actually use the skill line.

How about an example of an active version of hurricane. "Upon starting hurricane you have 10% mitigation that decreases as the storm increases your damage done by 10%." This is far more active because it creates weaving pathways and questions. Do i need the tankiness? Can I go for the damage and risk being vulnerable? Is there enemy burst coming? .............. Maybe instead of mit the speed is a unique 15%. Do you need to escape or chase? Cmon be creative.

Dino-Jr · July 8

I kind of like the change to Grim Focus and Shadow Cloak, both will still have a purpose in the builds I would use them in individually or together.

WreckfulAbandon · July 8

Reinstalled to check out subclassing and this Lightning Form change is going to make uninstalling again a breeze 🥹

Chibicosmos · July 8

Perhaps you can change Class Mastery script to work only if you have pure Class.

I'm ok with the changes to Grim focus but rather than it be a boring passive slot, the bonus it grants is based on how many successful stacks of bow procs you can hit in a rotation. Something like that. The Class was always about light attack weaving and the difficulty should be rewarded with a unique buff for maintaining it properly

Arcanist needs a much needed balance. Reduce the damage of Pragmatic 30%. Make Exhausting single target. Reduce the range of Exhausting by a bit. This class is extremely packed with goodies. Spread the love. Remove minor courage.

Living Death could use some help to make it more appealing. Intensive Mender could target like radiating regen and increase duration to make it easier to maintain. Increase the radius of braided tether. Expunge should be able to purge multiple targets. One morph can remove multiple from self while the other purges group and grants a heal if successful like Cleanse but with a reduced cost to make the line more attractive. Some kind of group buff should be considered to give it a competitive edge.

If you want to encourage more staff usage, might rethink either the passives of dual wield or the evasion granted by blade cloak. Maybe change it to where Shadow subclassing offers major evasion for group and minor for self rather than a weapon skill doing it.

Ardent Flame, Draconic, Sorc lines and Animal Companion all need some love.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to take a look at that Maelstrom 2h. It's super strong and other arena weapons need a little more help to become useful

With Subclassing I feel the kit of each line can be situational for the content you are doing. Some lines are going to get more attention and thats ok. You just need to help the others have a purpose for a time and place to strike a balance. And as you develop content keep in mind cleave is important if its packed with adds, so naturally classes that offer it will be more appealing.

SaintJohnHM · July 8

With all these idiotic nerfs in U47 I just wish players had warned the devs about the power surge before U46 was released...

Rkindaleft · July 8

I feel like a lot of the problems you are trying to fix now could have been resolved if you guys just listened to the feedback in the previous PTS. This is the main problem with PTS.

Hundreds of players said the power creep would be excessive and pure classes would be left in the dust, you didn’t consider that feedback, the truth is most of the people who proactively engage with the PTS know exactly what they are talking about - people who run trials at the top level or 1vX PvP have a greater understanding of how combat works in this game than most of the developers do (if given what was shown in the PvP dev livestream). They are also the ones who meticulously test changes in multiple scenarios during PTS.

Also, what on earth is that change to Lightning Form? Why do we have to rework skills that have been in the game for 11 years and were fine the whole time until you released the mess that is Subclassing without balancing it properly?

In the future, please consider making balance changes when under Subclassed conditions only. There’s absolutely no reason to nerf pure classes that aren’t broken just because some setups happen to be too powerful when Subclassed. This was called out from the very start and I don't know why this hasn't happened yet.

I have a sneaking suspicion the rest of this PTS and all future updates will be "we gave you Subclassing, and now we'll nerf all the things people will utilize Subclassing for."

xencthlu · July 8

Does Shadow Cloak *have* to lose Major Prophecy and Savagery? And from both morphs? With subclassing, isn't a little inter-class redundancy justified? Someone posted some data about how shadow is one of the least-subclassed lines, and I picked it up on an alt just to get an easy and painless source of proph/sav.

YandereGirlfriend · July 8

Misguided Changes:

1. Removing Resolve from Hurricane

2. Making Dark Cloak require Block (Like, WHAT?! Where did this even come from? Who was complaining about this? Tanks do other things than perma-Block, especially higher-level tanks)

3. Necromancer Corpse Consumption passive needs to be MAJOR Heroism, not Minor. The skill is infrequent and comparatively difficult to proc, which makes it much more like Catalyst and much less like the other class abilities that occur simply from playing the class. Especially at a time when the corpse mechanic barely pretends to work this is a superbad look.

4. We all saw the Barrier video. But apart from being provocative, where was the actual harm? Certainly, it wasn't the driver of PvE power creep in any meaningful way. If anything, it was providing accessibility to low-tier progression groups. Further, the other morph of Barrier is quite bad and should be buffed 3x to provide an actually compelling choice between morphs.

PrinceShroob · July 8

You had ample suggestions during the Update 46 PTS period for how to balance subclassing, and you decided to kick the can further down the road to now, when you are throwing slapdash kludge fixes at a problem you created with a system no one asked for that you pushed out despite knowing it would cause greater powercreep than you were comfortable with because you stupidly marketed it, selling the house before the first brick was laid. You are prisoners of your own device, and you are continually treating symptoms while allowing the disease to fester.

Now you are once again alienating your player base with balance changes that drastically change skills that have remained largely the same for a decade while refusing to admit that your idea was flawed--and in many cases, addressing issues you specifically created a few months ago, such as buffing the Catalyst passive and then being surprised that Ultimate generation was high.

ayonnis · July 8

The unique ult gen to heroism change is uncalled for. We have several sources of it all over the place
Leave what's left of our classes alone.
You already destoyed pearls and pillager.

Supports are barely fun to play as of right now and only rely on the ult gen. If that goes live I am not going back to ROJO jail

LukosCreyden · July 8

Hurricane no longer granting Major Resolve? Well, that's my build dead.

Radiate77 · July 8

Love the change to Lightning Form, keep up the great work defining skill lines.

Ardent Flame is Flame Damage and Healing.
Winter’s Embrace is Frost Damage and Defense.
Storm Calling is Lightning Damage and Mobility.

Any outliers to this rule need to be adjusted, or removed.

Estin · July 8

I would honestly prefer nothing to be changed for skills until Multiclassing is properly implemented. Tweaking skills to make pure classes weaker than they already are in U46 is simply not the way to go until you have figured out what to do with whatever data you need. You made the unbalanced bed in U46. You should lie in it until you come up with a proper implementation, not further increase the gap between pure and multiclassing as a hold over.

WreckfulAbandon · July 8

We just got the bill for subclassing and it's steep.

Rather than buffing the skill lines that no one uses or working on making the corpse/crux systems more accessible to subclassing, skills from commonly picked lines are instead targeted for nerfs. Shuffling around Sorcerer's Major Resolve honestly feels like a gut punch after returning to this game from a 2-3 year break.

Please think back on all the aspects of Hurricane that have already been nerfed:

1) Implosion removed

2) Damage nerfed

3) No longer pulls players out of Invisibility

4) No longer gives Major Resolve 😳

Sorcerer always gets the hardest nerfs and it's not even close. Please find another way to crunch these numbers. This change is not fun. If the problem is everyone picking Animal Companions, Assassination, and Storm Calling, then find a way to tone it down without nerfing Sorcerer skills. How many Warden nerfs have there been? Nightblade? Sorcerer? Look at those numbers and the correct decision is easier.

Blackrim · July 8

Morvan wrote: »

With most of the attention understandably shifting to class balance, I'd like to suggest some changes to the Vampire line that might help fill gaps as some subclassed combinations lack essential buffs, providing named buffs to this line would help with that.
Vampire
Mist Form
Blood Mist: This could use Major Brutality/Sorcery, would also be great if the damage was brought up a bit, for example, Deadly Cloak functions similarly, has the same range and duration, but deals more damage that is increased even further by the Dual Wield passives, Blood Mist deserves to be on par with that.

Elusive Mist: The buffs on this skill should definitely last longer, 4 seconds is way too low to make it a viable source for them.

Blood Frenzy: This skill really fails to compensate its own drawbacks, especially in group content, as it completely block you from not just being healed by others, but also from getting buffs triggered by overhealing like Major Courage from Spell Power Cure — which by itself gives you more damage than Frenzy. It would be nice if while unhealable any ally heal would automatically considered an overheal, and this skill could use a named buff like Minor Force — we seriously need alternatives to Barbed Trap.

Eviscerate: This skill and morphs are the best thing on this line, but it would be nice if it had Major Prophecy/Savagery while slotted.
Blood for Blood: Just like my suggestion for Frenzy, the unhealable portion of this skill should make blocked healing from allies count as overhealing. This would ensure that even while you're unhealable, you can still benefit from sets with overhealing-based effects.

Vampiric Drain: This is one I rarely see on tank setups, it could definitely get some love — maybe give it some kind of blood damage shield if it overheals, some defensive named buffs would be nice too, like Minor/Major Vitality, Toughness or Protection — any of those would help.

Mesmerize: By far the most forgotten skill in this kit, I do like the concept and looks though, wish something new was done to it, like giving it Major Timidity if the stun hits, it's a debuff with no sources in game that would fit this skill's vibes really well.

First things first with vamp I would highly suggest more skills become accessible at stage 4 to incentivize it more.

Blood Mist damage is useless I tested it in PvP... It needs to provide some sort of cc immunity, greater buff, or a direct % heal of max health.

Elusive Mist should have a 15 second duration of major evasion

Delete Frenzy and replace

Eviscerate, fine as is with morphs.

Drain: keep as is its so unique with ulti gen and stamina gen % should be higher

Mesmerize: Make it a fear that DOES NOT give cc immunity.

YandereGirlfriend · July 8

Blackrim wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

With most of the attention understandably shifting to class balance, I'd like to suggest some changes to the Vampire line that might help fill gaps as some subclassed combinations lack essential buffs, providing named buffs to this line would help with that.
Vampire
Mist Form
Blood Mist: This could use Major Brutality/Sorcery, would also be great if the damage was brought up a bit, for example, Deadly Cloak functions similarly, has the same range and duration, but deals more damage that is increased even further by the Dual Wield passives, Blood Mist deserves to be on par with that.

Elusive Mist: The buffs on this skill should definitely last longer, 4 seconds is way too low to make it a viable source for them.

Blood Frenzy: This skill really fails to compensate its own drawbacks, especially in group content, as it completely block you from not just being healed by others, but also from getting buffs triggered by overhealing like Major Courage from Spell Power Cure — which by itself gives you more damage than Frenzy. It would be nice if while unhealable any ally heal would automatically considered an overheal, and this skill could use a named buff like Minor Force — we seriously need alternatives to Barbed Trap.

Eviscerate: This skill and morphs are the best thing on this line, but it would be nice if it had Major Prophecy/Savagery while slotted.
Blood for Blood: Just like my suggestion for Frenzy, the unhealable portion of this skill should make blocked healing from allies count as overhealing. This would ensure that even while you're unhealable, you can still benefit from sets with overhealing-based effects.

Vampiric Drain: This is one I rarely see on tank setups, it could definitely get some love — maybe give it some kind of blood damage shield if it overheals, some defensive named buffs would be nice too, like Minor/Major Vitality, Toughness or Protection — any of those would help.

Mesmerize: By far the most forgotten skill in this kit, I do like the concept and looks though, wish something new was done to it, like giving it Major Timidity if the stun hits, it's a debuff with no sources in game that would fit this skill's vibes really well.

First things first with vamp I would highly suggest more skills become accessible at stage 4 to incentivize it more.

Blood Mist damage is useless I tested it in PvP... It needs to provide some sort of cc immunity, greater buff, or a direct % heal of max health.

Elusive Mist should have a 15 second duration of major evasion

Delete Frenzy and replace

Eviscerate, fine as is with morphs.

Drain: keep as is its so unique with ulti gen and stamina gen % should be higher

Mesmerize: Make it a fear that DOES NOT give cc immunity.

Let's dream bigger: 20-30 seconds Major Evasion for Elusive Mist to bring it in-line with other, easier, methods to access the buff.

And then let's make Mesmerize scale with Vamp Stage! At Stage 4 eliminate the "facing you" requirement (which is simply a failed mechanic, I'm sorry devs) and make it unblockable. That would put it up there with the NB class Fear but would also demand heavy sacrifices to access that sort of power.

MincMincMinc · July 8

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Blackrim wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

With most of the attention understandably shifting to class balance, I'd like to suggest some changes to the Vampire line that might help fill gaps as some subclassed combinations lack essential buffs, providing named buffs to this line would help with that.
Vampire
Mist Form
Blood Mist: This could use Major Brutality/Sorcery, would also be great if the damage was brought up a bit, for example, Deadly Cloak functions similarly, has the same range and duration, but deals more damage that is increased even further by the Dual Wield passives, Blood Mist deserves to be on par with that.

Elusive Mist: The buffs on this skill should definitely last longer, 4 seconds is way too low to make it a viable source for them.

Blood Frenzy: This skill really fails to compensate its own drawbacks, especially in group content, as it completely block you from not just being healed by others, but also from getting buffs triggered by overhealing like Major Courage from Spell Power Cure — which by itself gives you more damage than Frenzy. It would be nice if while unhealable any ally heal would automatically considered an overheal, and this skill could use a named buff like Minor Force — we seriously need alternatives to Barbed Trap.

Eviscerate: This skill and morphs are the best thing on this line, but it would be nice if it had Major Prophecy/Savagery while slotted.
Blood for Blood: Just like my suggestion for Frenzy, the unhealable portion of this skill should make blocked healing from allies count as overhealing. This would ensure that even while you're unhealable, you can still benefit from sets with overhealing-based effects.

Vampiric Drain: This is one I rarely see on tank setups, it could definitely get some love — maybe give it some kind of blood damage shield if it overheals, some defensive named buffs would be nice too, like Minor/Major Vitality, Toughness or Protection — any of those would help.

Mesmerize: By far the most forgotten skill in this kit, I do like the concept and looks though, wish something new was done to it, like giving it Major Timidity if the stun hits, it's a debuff with no sources in game that would fit this skill's vibes really well.

First things first with vamp I would highly suggest more skills become accessible at stage 4 to incentivize it more.

Blood Mist damage is useless I tested it in PvP... It needs to provide some sort of cc immunity, greater buff, or a direct % heal of max health.

Elusive Mist should have a 15 second duration of major evasion

Delete Frenzy and replace

Eviscerate, fine as is with morphs.

Drain: keep as is its so unique with ulti gen and stamina gen % should be higher

Mesmerize: Make it a fear that DOES NOT give cc immunity.

Let's dream bigger: 20-30 seconds Major Evasion for Elusive Mist to bring it in-line with other, easier, methods to access the buff.

And then let's make Mesmerize scale with Vamp Stage! At Stage 4 eliminate the "facing you" requirement (which is simply a failed mechanic, I'm sorry devs) and make it unblockable. That would put it up there with the NB class Fear but would also demand heavy sacrifices to access that sort of power.

Nah I think these skills need to be more "active" so lets give them major and minor buffs when you slot them. Only reasonable right?