The writing has become a bit too...family friendly

Heren · June 12

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Anyway, I'm curious what contributed to a sense of things being family friendly. Based on the discussion here so far, one theory is that it's a bit of confirmation bias going on, as if people feel "everything is so family friendly now" and they're now seeing examples everywhere because they're thinking about it more. I feel like Solstice was mostly neutral, neither too gritty or family friendly, but the NPCs don't really convey the stakes at hand and just act like heroes, so maybe that's it.

Doing a full and honest comparison chapter by chapter would be long ( and also I didn't finish Gold Road / didn't buy Solstice ), but that would certainly be interesting to see some evolution in the long run.

I would simply point toward some recent advertising, one picture I've seen on websites recently talking about "making yourself at home in Tamriel" while showing ( the current login screen in fact, or just slightly altered outside of the added sentence; I did forget the nord having his big battle axe out )

the three heroes hanging around doing... stuff ( breton one playing Zorro on a horse, Nord one petting a dog, bosmer one can't remember, doing nothing maybe ), on a rather warm setting ( a bit of ayleid maçonnerie in Gold Road background, warm colors, quite pleasant ).

Everything here is, maybe not family friendly, but friendly - there's no adventures things, no ennemies to fight thing, no bad guys to stop thing, just, come and hang around with us, we're having some bbq tonight ! ( ok maybe not bbq, I guess this can be a highly controversial toping ).

Didn't watch the video ad, I really don't have any interest doing that, but the feedback I've read about it seem to put it in the same department - come do 'social' stuff in ESO, pet dog, do emotes in town, things like that !

So yes, maybe reactions about the current writing are a bit over exaggerated, with a bit of confirmation bias, but there really seems to be a more general trend toward a very friendly ( and harmless ) Tamriel - which might not be entirely reflected in the actual content, but still cast some light ( or shadow, as you like ) upon the reception and appreciation of that content.

StormBlade512 · June 12

karthrag_inak wrote: »

<hrrrumph> khajiit still wants to know where these beheadings are occurring.

The only place I've seen a beheading is in the Deadlands when a Daedroth bites the head off of a banekin

Cooperharley · June 12

It is jarring, especially after playing the dark brotherhood questline in oblivion remastered.

We really could use less family friendly in an elder scrolls game. Totally agree!

DenverRalphy · June 12

Off the top of my head (Hah!), the only beheading I can think of is at the beginning of Skyrim when Imperials take the head of one of your fellow prisoners. Same universe, different game.

MrGarlic · June 12

karthrag_inak wrote: »

<hrrrumph> khajiit still wants to know where these beheadings are occurring.

Three that come straight off the top of my head,

1. Story in Fungal Grotto 1 where the goblin king loses his head and it gets mounted on a stake.

2. Craglorn, Exarch's Stronghold where you are required to put a head on a stake outside the delve. (Something about goats and stones.)

3. Rivenspire public dungeon (Obsidian Scar) where you get to decapitate the heads of two orcs in a revenge plot and plant their heads on a stake.

There may be more I forgot.

Gadamlub14_ESO · June 13

well, i do feel quite confidant that we'd never see anything like the Kynarthi roost questline ever again in game, where an entire set of people, the sea elves, are the baddies to their core.

or something as darkly heavy handed (in a good way?) as the shadowfen hatching pools questline.

I was pleasantly surprised by sharps' questline though. they were quite brave to put in something dark weith those topics like that, and was quite disappointed they toned things down after PTS. its like the only PTS feedback theyve listened over the years too,

but, perhaps the writing can improve overall as things go forward. but i havent all that much hope for it. here or elsewhere.

tomofhyrule · June 13

Soarora wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Didn't Galen's and Sharp-as-Night's quests get a bit altered (in dialogue and found books) due to explicit references?

The only things I recall being altered are two people being afraid that Sea Elf pirates are going to Have Advances on them and Sharp’s ex boyfriend’s makeup/demeanor was considered too insulting to gay people because it was stereotypical?

Sharp does not have an ex or a boyfriend....that's not a "boyfriend"....

I thought his whole thing was being obsessive over Sharp and making him be in a one-sided relationship? Abusive relationships still are relationships. I don’t recall details though, I’m not sure how much of his quests Ive completed myself, so I may be reciting someone else’s interpretation that could be more baseless than I thought.

Oof, if you're reading that as "just an abusive relationship," that indirectly confirms the point of this thread.

There is nothing consensual about that relationship. It is 100% SA of a slave, pure and simple.
IIRC though, the dialogue of those quests was slightly sanitized while Necrom was still on PTS to get rid of some of the more overt signs so that that is only hinted at now instead of being explicitly stated.

LukosCreyden · June 13

The current writers struggle to write mature topics. Whenever they try, it apparently comes across as too on-the-nose or tasteless and so it gets nerfed on the PTS. This is probably why we have the 'investigate evil cult that does bad things' story formula. Evil cult is evil, so we don't need to feel bad for them or read any deeper into the matter. This formula will likely continue until ESO is as dead as the Necromancer class.

emilyhyoyeon · June 13

I agree.

I want to point out: the writer(s) responsible for (out of more recent years' content) Zerith-var's quests and, from the new Solstice zone, the delve quest in the Tainted Leel know how to write maturely and in a way that takes the TES world seriously.

Soarora · June 13

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Didn't Galen's and Sharp-as-Night's quests get a bit altered (in dialogue and found books) due to explicit references?

The only things I recall being altered are two people being afraid that Sea Elf pirates are going to Have Advances on them and Sharp’s ex boyfriend’s makeup/demeanor was considered too insulting to gay people because it was stereotypical?

Sharp does not have an ex or a boyfriend....that's not a "boyfriend"....

I thought his whole thing was being obsessive over Sharp and making him be in a one-sided relationship? Abusive relationships still are relationships. I don’t recall details though, I’m not sure how much of his quests Ive completed myself, so I may be reciting someone else’s interpretation that could be more baseless than I thought.

Sharp was his slave. They toned down the non-consent undertones.

Ahh okay, thank you for the correction!

Soarora · June 13

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Didn't Galen's and Sharp-as-Night's quests get a bit altered (in dialogue and found books) due to explicit references?

The only things I recall being altered are two people being afraid that Sea Elf pirates are going to Have Advances on them and Sharp’s ex boyfriend’s makeup/demeanor was considered too insulting to gay people because it was stereotypical?

Sharp does not have an ex or a boyfriend....that's not a "boyfriend"....

I thought his whole thing was being obsessive over Sharp and making him be in a one-sided relationship? Abusive relationships still are relationships. I don’t recall details though, I’m not sure how much of his quests Ive completed myself, so I may be reciting someone else’s interpretation that could be more baseless than I thought.

Oof, if you're reading that as "just an abusive relationship," that indirectly confirms the point of this thread.

There is nothing consensual about that relationship. It is 100% SA of a slave, pure and simple.
IIRC though, the dialogue of those quests was slightly sanitized while Necrom was still on PTS to get rid of some of the more overt signs so that that is only hinted at now instead of being explicitly stated.

Well, there’s nothing “just” about abusive relationships no matter if they’re consensual or not. We may be looking at this from two different definitions of what a relationship means. I feel in the end its up to the victim on if they count their abuser as an ex or not, so I should have looked at it from Sharp’s perspective and for not doing that I take fault. But I didn’t know how far they toned it down and I’ve been corrected so no worries!

Rungar · June 13

i like dark and gritty with lots of cursing and sarcasm. I don't care for the sexual type themes or the woke type stuff.

MasterSpatula · June 13

I've been replaying Murkmire for the first time in many years, and I just did the Bright Throat bonding ritual quest tonight. Ironic timing, as I had this thread on my mind the whole time I was doing that quest. The double entendres were flying around like the ping pong balls in Forest Gump.

Man, I miss being treated like a grown-up.

Thysbe · June 13

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Man, I miss being treated like a grown-up.

That sums it up perfectly.

Murkmire´s main story is one of the best imho. The contrast between Solistice where Argonians and Altmer are living together like in Disneyworld Paris compared and the really horrible and tragic story of Murkmire, showing the strengh and unity of an opressed race, is a good example how the stories in the game definitely changed.

mdjessup4906 · June 13

I remember that giant thread bitching about sharps quest and it pissed me off so bad. The game is rated m for a reason. Stop neutering the writer's potential because of some loudmouths who cant figure out how to say "please can we have a skip for that one flashback bit" which I think was valid, and "eww no bad things in my medieval hell game".

Its wierd, I've seen people in other threads, in game chat even, going on about how kids play this game etc. So what? It's not a kids game, so not their or the writers problem. Imo.

mdjessup4906 · June 13

Where are animated beheading? Khajiit has no memory of these.

The utter lack of blood and guts anywhere has always struck me a funny. Torture racks, skulls everywhere, but no blood. Even in a place like dread cellar, where it was a still functioning prison until recently, everything looks like it happened decades ago.

Compare this to Skyrims castle dour prison floor and kill cams where your head gets bitten off by a dragon lol.

Nemesis7884 · June 13

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

Where are animated beheading? Khajiit has no memory of these.

The utter lack of blood and guts anywhere has always struck me a funny. Torture racks, skulls everywhere, but no blood. Even in a place like dread cellar, where it was a still functioning prison until recently, everything looks like it happened decades ago.

Compare this to Skyrims castle dour prison floor and kill cams where your head gets bitten off by a dragon lol.

Afaik for some weird reason in some countries blood is a huge trigger for classification while acts of violance or skulls are less so as long as no blood is shown...

FabresFour · June 13

Like I said in the letter I wrote here on the forum last year — to me, ESO has been simplified narratively to an alarming degree.
Besides that, I find it curious that the devs and writers seem to have forgotten that one of Tamriel’s names is, quite literally, "the Arena."

Right now, it feels more like "the amusement park where you punch bad guys and deal with funny people!!!!"

Remember — Tamriel was never meant to be a happy place. It’s supposed to be a hard place to live. Especially in ESO, during the Interregnum — a time when everyone was fighting each other and “venom and blood” filled the air.
Hell, we literally have a song with that!

colossalvoids · June 13

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The current writers struggle to write mature topics.

Part of me thinks it's also about the difference we (players versus other players versus writers) put in the words what's considered a mature topic or handling the topic with maturity. In ESO currently it's imo either sexual or tied to various substances, cursing or topics around emotions and states of being. And still doing it vulgarly, missing any possible depth or reliability, more like a short form entertainment or a meme in quality, it feels like. Not as a story, with defined and refined features or structure.

ArchMikem · June 13

karthrag_inak wrote: »

<hrrrumph> khajiit still wants to know where these beheadings are occurring.

I don't think the character model even supports that? I can't for the life of me recall seeing it done. The only already headless example i know is Cadwell in North Elsweyr.

ZigoSid · June 13

Agree.

Have re-done base game quests recently (I mean, seriously this time) and, wow, the tone was really different back then

cheshirecatqee · June 13

It's probably because parents have been complaining a 16+ game is too difficult for their 11 year old to play. I agree it is too nice and too family friendly

whitecrow · June 13

The murder mystery (not much of a mystery) in W. Weald I just did was certainly very weak. Not a patch on the Sweetroll Killer.

ZigoSid · June 13

whitecrow wrote: »

The murder mystery (not much of a mystery) in W. Weald I just did was certainly very weak. Not a patch on the Sweetroll Killer.

Yeah, "loved" how the killer is guessed after 5 seconds, EVEN by the NPCs. But then all the quest is just 15 minutes of mobs bashing to confirm what everybody already know.

minnowfaun · June 13

Thysbe wrote: »

I think so too - target audience is rather the crown store friendly casual community you don´t want to disturb with a too dark or disturbing writing or story.

Hey, hey now. I'm way too crown store friendly for my own good and I love me some Darkness. I'm all over here worshipping Daedric Princes.

Edited to snip out picture of kawaii pet.

LootAllTheStuff · June 13

MrGarlic wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

<hrrrumph> khajiit still wants to know where these beheadings are occurring.

Three that come straight off the top of my head,

1. Story in Fungal Grotto 1 where the goblin king loses his head and it gets mounted on a stake.

2. Craglorn, Exarch's Stronghold where you are required to put a head on a stake outside the delve. (Something about goats and stones.)

3. Rivenspire public dungeon (Obsidian Scar) where you get to decapitate the heads of two orcs in a revenge plot and plant their heads on a stake.

There may be more I forgot.

There's also the mine in either the Rift or Eastmarch where you behead some hagravens and display their heads to bring out the boss one.

Heren · June 13

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

There's also the mine in either the Rift or Eastmarch where you behead some hagravens and display their heads to bring out the boss one.

The Rift, where you also have a dunmer scout who get her eyes nomed nomed by the hagravens. That was hard, but the ending was somehow nice as an argonian decided to take care of her from now on. Truly, this ending wouldn't have feel the same without this grim scene before ( and boy was I motivated afterthat to kill reach invaders ).

Jaimeh · June 13

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've been replaying Murkmire for the first time in many years, and I just did the Bright Throat bonding ritual quest tonight. Ironic timing, as I had this thread on my mind the whole time I was doing that quest. The double entendres were flying around like the ping pong balls in Forest Gump.

Man, I miss being treated like a grown-up.

I still crack up when I remember the whole dreadfather elixir thing from that quest

TheMajority · June 14

Soarora wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Didn't Galen's and Sharp-as-Night's quests get a bit altered (in dialogue and found books) due to explicit references?

The only things I recall being altered are two people being afraid that Sea Elf pirates are going to Have Advances on them and Sharp’s ex boyfriend’s makeup/demeanor was considered too insulting to gay people because it was stereotypical?

Sharp does not have an ex or a boyfriend....that's not a "boyfriend"....

I thought his whole thing was being obsessive over Sharp and making him be in a one-sided relationship? Abusive relationships still are relationships. I don’t recall details though, I’m not sure how much of his quests Ive completed myself, so I may be reciting someone else’s interpretation that could be more baseless than I thought.

Sharps didn't consent. It's not a relationship when you don't consent and certainly not a boyfriend. You don't call a slave master or kidnapper an "ex boyfriend" in the real world unless there was prior relationship that went real wrong. That is not the case with sharp. There is no relationship.

Rohamad_Ali · June 14

I like family friendly.