Backbar skills should gain experience - end the "less-than" treatment when leveling skills!

Athometodd · June 9

A erronous bar swap - one GCD- is why I lost out on today's random normal daily XP bonus when re-leveling some skills so I can fully engage with subclassing. 150% scroll running. But I bar swapped in the last second before the fight ended, and all that XP went to my already leveled front bar skills. Cries of horror. Backbars skills - which can remain active when on the front bar - have for too long been treated as second class skills. I call on ZOS to allow XP to be gained for all skills slotted, regardless of bar. I imagine this simple change would also drastically cut down on server calculations. I can that a win-win! Who's with me?

DenverRalphy · June 9

It would be abused as everyone would just slot all their unleveled skills on the back bar then go rain destruction with their fully leveled front bar.

If a skill is to be leveled, there should be some pretense that it's being leveled through use. Even if it's largely just pretend.

TheDarkRuler · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It would be abused as everyone would just slot all their unleveled skills on the back bar then go rain destruction with their fully leveled front bar.

If a skill is to be leveled, there should be some pretense that it's being leveled through use. Even if it's largely just pretend.

Right now they spam the DOTs on Front bar and slot to the backbar in last 3 seconds and tada in Random Normal.

Runefang · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It would be abused as everyone would just slot all their unleveled skills on the back bar then go rain destruction with their fully leveled front bar.

If a skill is to be leveled, there should be some pretense that it's being leveled through use. Even if it's largely just pretend.

"Abused" is a stretch at this point in the game.

GloatingSwine · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It would be abused as everyone would just slot all their unleveled skills on the back bar then go rain destruction with their fully leveled front bar.

If a skill is to be leveled, there should be some pretense that it's being leveled through use. Even if it's largely just pretend.

How is that "abuse"?

Like there are skills that are passively functional from either bar and that's intentional behaviour. Why would levelling them from backbar be different?

SkaiFaith · June 9

I don't want to be that guy but... I agree AND Oakensoul shouldn't be cut out of this possibility.

Defatank · June 9

I would recommend that the back bar level at a much slower pace than the equipped bar to prevent people from just throwing unwanted skills on the backbar just to level them up, but yet allow people who are regularly using back bar skills still benefit from leveling all skills they have equipped.

Maybe thats another idea as well... The skills you actually used during combat level up in accordance with their impact during combat? Main bar still having the rate of leveling it has with the back bar leveling substantially slower (but still leveling none the less) and then skills used during combat get bonus leveling / brought up to main bar skill leveling speed)

GloatingSwine · June 9

Defatank wrote: »

I would recommend that the back bar level at a much slower pace than the equipped bar to prevent people from just throwing unwanted skills on the backbar just to level them up, but yet allow people who are regularly using back bar skills still benefit from leveling all skills they have equipped.

Maybe thats another idea as well... The skills you actually used during combat level up in accordance with their impact during combat? Main bar still having the rate of leveling it has with the back bar leveling substantially slower (but still leveling none the less) and then skills used during combat get bonus leveling / brought up to main bar skill leveling speed)

What's the negative consequences of letting people level up another bar of skills, that it must be prevented thus? You don't actually get anything other than a sense of completeness by levelling up skills you aren't going to use.

(Also you can't really measure the combat impact of skills like Apocryphal Gate)

Defatank · June 9

GloatingSwine wrote: »

Defatank wrote: »

I would recommend that the back bar level at a much slower pace than the equipped bar to prevent people from just throwing unwanted skills on the backbar just to level them up, but yet allow people who are regularly using back bar skills still benefit from leveling all skills they have equipped.

Maybe thats another idea as well... The skills you actually used during combat level up in accordance with their impact during combat? Main bar still having the rate of leveling it has with the back bar leveling substantially slower (but still leveling none the less) and then skills used during combat get bonus leveling / brought up to main bar skill leveling speed)

What's the negative consequences of letting people level up another bar of skills, that it must be prevented thus? You don't actually get anything other than a sense of completeness by levelling up skills you aren't going to use.

(Also you can't really measure the combat impact of skills like Apocryphal Gate)

There is no negative impact for "completeing" it. It doesn't hinder anyone else so really there isn't a problem in the "completion" aspect of it.

However there is a negative impact on the player themselves for never really using the abilities and seeing what they do in combat, their effectiveness and encouraging the player to step out of their comfort zone even if it is for a moment of swapping to a different bar just to tap that ability they dont particularly have interest in using. Doing so however could very easily lead to "oh wow I didn't know it worked like that" Which I myself have found tinkering with skills in the subclassing system over the past week

amig186 · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It would be abused as everyone would just slot all their unleveled skills on the back bar then go rain destruction with their fully leveled front bar.

If a skill is to be leveled, there should be some pretense that it's being leveled through use. Even if it's largely just pretend.

Hardly abuse, it would be a great quality of life change. As it is, leveling skills is extremely tedious, especially when the base forms are useless and you just want the morph. More so when you're leveling multiple at a time (and you usually are), you're not just going to switch out your entire front bar and be unable to do anything in a fight.

DenverRalphy · June 9

QOL changes are things like adding a Buyback mechanic to mitigate accidentally losing items to a misclick. Organizing the UI to allow for more efficient navigation. Locking items to prevent accidental destruction, deconstruction, etc..

QOL does not encompass bypassing or cutting out game mechanics simply to accommodate instant gratification.

Instead of cutting yet another aspect of immersion out of the game, how about the player simply choose a more sensible method to level up those skills than RNDs? If you're gonna run dungeons for the xp, run your daily pledges since those don't award until you turn them in.

And really.. leveling up a skill line is hardly tedious. It can already be done inside of 15 minutes with master writs.

SilverIce58 · June 9

I think when you complete a quest, you should get exp for all the skills on both bars (maybe the back bar gets slightly less exp), however when youre just fighting/grinding on mobs in Alik'r's dolmen circuit, then it should only be your active bar that gets exp, since you are using that bar to get the kill.

code65536 · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It would be abused [...] Even if it's largely just pretend.

So what you're saying is that it's already being "abused" (i.e., do content on front bar, swap to back bar at the end before the big XP tick), but that just one tiny step further would suddenly make it not okay? That's some specious reasoning.

Besides, what would you say to all the people leveling combat skills by slotting them while handing over crafted goods to Rolis? They're certainly not even pretending to use them there.

amig186 · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

QOL changes are things like adding a Buyback mechanic to mitigate accidentally losing items to a misclick. Organizing the UI to allow for more efficient navigation. Locking items to prevent accidental destruction, deconstruction, etc..

QOL does not encompass bypassing or cutting out game mechanics simply to accommodate instant gratification.

Instead of cutting yet another aspect of immersion out of the game, how about the player simply choose a more sensible method to level up those skills than RNDs? If you're gonna run dungeons for the xp, run your daily pledges since those don't award until you turn them in.

And really.. leveling up a skill line is hardly tedious. It can already be done inside of 15 minutes with master writs.

No, bypassing tedium is absolutely QoL. Things like letting you craft using mats in your stash rather than forcing you to have them on your person for example. I don't see how leveling your frontbar abilities by turning in a s-load of crafting writs is any more immersive than having them level while sitting on your backbar.

AlterBlika · June 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It would be abused as everyone would just slot all their unleveled skills on the back bar then go rain destruction with their fully leveled front bar.

If a skill is to be leveled, there should be some pretense that it's being leveled through use. Even if it's largely just pretend.

You seem to forget that back bar skills are also a part of your power budget because you have dots/buffs/debuffs there, and they work all the time, despite being on the back bar. It's only fair to be able to level back bar skills as well.