As a tank main playing from day 1 I'll put my thoughts out here. I am looking forward to subclassing as a support. This also goes doubly so for healers too. We usually need certain utility in our builds so subclassing helps us get the skills we need to perform better. There isn't really a 1 fits all build for our roles since certain encounters could be better with certain skill lines but not by a wide margin. I will say the dps side of things make very valid points in regards to pure classes vs subclassing and I honestly wish there was an extra month or so to balance out the system before it gets released because certain combinations are very op by a decent margin. Saying that though I think the reason it hasn't been adjusted again in pts is because of the possibility of nerfing a skill too much may make the class in itself invalid. I think they are trying to get the main issue with the combinations down and doing the math to try to fix it without upsetting those that use the class or the skill line the most. Like I said though, it should have been given another month before releasing and with the disparity I'm seeing in the community from this short time frame has been leaving me frustrated because I really do like the system. A buff to the pure classes (all 3 skill lines) by 5% or 10% in their raw stats would probably be welcomed and not op but could ease the divide a bit.

For the other parts regarding the previous conversation in the topic I will say as a tank I was literally forced into 1 build.....1 build at all times. I came up with other ideas, tried different sets that had some selfish properties to help keep me alive (newbie tank) NOPE get the sets that everyone else is using. For those wondering what this build was: Ebon, roar of alkosh, bloodspawn or lord warden. There was another set to not double up on ebon but I unfortunately forgot what it was because I had to get roar of alkosh (weapons and jewelry) and the monster sets in my weight AND with STURDY (you guys that started playing with curation and transmutation don't know how good you got it). Transmutation did eventually come out but not curation so I had to play the loot box of shoulders every day until I got the right part and weight.......brings back nightmares. After doing all this, running some vet trials, and enjoying my sets, I took a small break because I was burnt out on ESO at the time. When I came back there were even more sets now I needed to get in order to run vet trials. The meta train will continue to move without you. I even needed to train up new skills I almost never use and learn how they operate. I got the sets now but I honestly got bored of doing group content as a result and wasn't enjoying the game which is why I became more solo focused and have been enjoying the game WAY more. Especially since I could play with the abilities I wanted to play with which raid content never allowed me.

The overall message I wanted to just state with this is that the meta shifts literally all the time and is not exactly friendly to anyone that tries to follow it or not follow it (I just acknowledge its existence). It has been shifting since day 1 and will continue to do so. I'll 100% bet that the current dps meta will last 3 to 6 months at most and then shift to something else. No matter what though raid leads doing that harder stuff want you to be able to perform high dps numbers, not because they don't like your play style, but it is to ensure that the 12 man group succeeds since it is a time sink especially when going for hard mode clears. If it is easier to do with certain subclasses they will probably require it. No one wants to run a 4 hour trial after work or even on their day off and fail. Had a lot of raid members take very long breaks after runs like that.

Twohothardware wrote: »

because base classes have not been nerfed by any noticeable amount.

Not true, Sorc's Expert Mage was nerfed from 2% to 108 Weapon and Spell Damage, with the Trial buff, you usually have 6000 or more Weapon and Spell Damage, so 2% is at least 300 Weapon and Spell Damage, so Expert Mage was nerfed by at least 200%.
In addition, Expert Summoner provided 10% Max Magicka and Stamina to non-pet sorcs, but was nerfed to 5% in U46.
Not to mention Daedric Prey was nerfed and no longer buffs other types of pets, considering that Maw of the Infernal accounts for about 7-10% of dps, this is about 3-5% nerf.
If any class receives the above nerfs, it is basically a death sentence.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Arcanist received the biggest class nerf with a 40% cost increase to Beam and Arcanist is still the best PvE class.

Why didn't you mention that Fatecarver received an 8% damage buff? Did you forget or was it an accident? Arcanist and NB are the biggest winners of this PTS, not to mention that Splintered Secrets was buffed from 991 to 1240, making Alkosh, Tremorscale, etc. no longer necessary sets, or even unnecessary.

And you forget that the new Tide-Born crafted set buffs Direct Damage- so running Deadly AND Tide-Born makes Fatecarver even more powerful.

cool
i clean 12 /13 trial hm , 4/9 trial trifecta, and all use not meta parse class done( main is my stam nb/sorc or healer)
so i think i can critique
yes, i alway sound other leader say: you should use meta or WTF a nb/sorc parse dd ?etc,when i join my dsr trifecta group
my leader want me swap to arc or dk ,because reef hm need a aoe class,but i still choose nb, because i can use he solo reef hm or bridge, it this patch arcanist cant done ,but nb can done , but next patch not this problem,the Perfect class add in game have best anythingbut maybe only live 3 month and zos start big nerf all thing
In fact, it why most people I know don't like it, they most all hm or trifecta clean guys
like i lost my best friend who use stam nb khajiit done vdsr trifecta and upset about subclassing leave game in 2week ago
and 3 group start disband they hard mode training group,because main player start leave/stop play

Twohothardware wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’ve just been skimming through the mountain of posts about this, not commenting much and having trouble finding the motivation to even log in and play lately.

As a mid-tier player, this is having the rug pulled out from under me. I got into vet hm trials about 2 years ago when the meta became somewhat stable, and there were only slight changes being made each update. I don’t enjoy spending hours in front of a trials dummy parsing away, and I don’t enjoy having to reconstruct gear sets over and over. There are some players who really live for that, but I suspect it is a very small fraction of the playerbase. I’m sure they have fun trying out a bunch of different possibilities. Sure, I could just grab a build online after the update and change my characters when it hits, but I am feeling the fatigue that has hit end game players many times before.

Casual players on here seem to be excited, but what about the casual players who don’t seek out builds online? I can imagine the overwhelming feeling when they start out the game will be even worse now. This is the main group who might benefit from this the most and it seems hard to say how it will go yet.

I had a wait and see attitude up til this point, but the change might be too much for me to want to continue. I’m not giving up as of yet, due to the investment I have in the game at this point, but I don’t have a good feeling about it now. I’ve had classes nerfed to the point where PvP and trials characters were reduced to daily crafting mules, but having all of my characters benched is too much to start over again, I fear.

Except that none of your characters are being benched. Every character that you've been able to run HM trials with will continue to be able to run the trials you've been doing and through subclassing any of your characters will be able to easily add additional DPS or support.

The ceiling is being raised with subclassing, not lowered. The average casual player is going to be able to more easily complete hard mode content. Even heavy attack builds using the new heavy attack mythic are going to be more viable in harder content.

I won’t make the change to subclassing to keep up so I will be underperforming. Ten years into the game this is too much change. It might be okay for overland but not hard content.

We have already heard that dps is increased much more significantly than any other patch before so there will be more nerfs when it hits live. Any other claims to the contrary are either wishful thinking or uneducated guesses.

Not for me. Having to swap a class skill line for another class skill line...

I was beta tester, I have played on Xbox and PC, I love The Elder Scrolls and I love this game, but this is ruining the game for me.

Subclassing has completely ruined any desire I had to keep playing the game. Why would I want to play the same thing as everyone else in an MMO that’s supposed to be built around distinct classes? This isn’t subclassing—it’s multiclassing. And with it, the meta will inevitably boil down to just a handful of DPS, healer, and tank builds that are actually competitive. Everyone will be running Assassination and Herald of the Tomb.

Forget the potential for overpowered combos. My issue goes deeper: I have no motivation to play anymore because my Nightblade no longer feels unique. There’s no reason—or reward—for embracing your class fantasy. Want to be a fire-themed tank who protects allies? Too bad. The best options are Arcanist, Necromancer, or Warden multiclass. Want to roleplay a priest wielding holy healing magic? Nope—you’re better off using Arcanist, Necromancer, or Warden multiclass. Want to be a master of lightning and Daedra summoning, or a necromancer commanding an army of the dead? Instead, the meta demands you run Arcanist, Nightblade, or Templar and spam channeling spells.

Maybe this system could work if you could only choose one class skill line to replace out of the three but adding this "Subclassing", in my opinion takes away a lot of the charm and character of the game.

I think it is neither ruining the game nor prospering the game. It is just plain nothing, ok but boring feature.

fizzylu wrote: »

Well, now that the update dropped; I have stared at the UI trying to decide what skill line I'm willing to give up and which one would best take it's place. I was unable to come to a decision and logged out instead.

I've found levelling the Nightblade skill line on my Sorc, Warden and Templar dps was a bit of fun last night.
But when the reality of endgame dps sets in and the arcanist getting the largest increase becoming more meta, it's going to be depressing....

Was enjoying till I realized there is a penalty to swap around maxxed out skill lines to test things out and play around with different build ideas. Each time you make a change there is a gold fee like the shrines.

Completely ruins the whole experimentation vibe of it.

I am having heaps of fun, playing around with different class lines. It finally drops this strict class system, that never really felt TES for me. It gets closer to building my character the way I like or prefer. Playing Oblivion remaster these last few weeks, reminded me how much I love to have a character, not a class, a character where I can select what skills he uses without restrictions. And no - I do not care about "builds" there, and I care little in ESO. I play the way I enjoy.

Cardhwion wrote: »

I am having heaps of fun, playing around with different class lines. It finally drops this strict class system, that never really felt TES for me. It gets closer to building my character the way I like or prefer. Playing Oblivion remaster these last few weeks, reminded me how much I love to have a character, not a class, a character where I can select what skills he uses without restrictions. And no - I do not care about "builds" there, and I care little in ESO. I play the way I enjoy.

So youre not playing any endgame content in ESO. Its totally fine.

Subclassing is fun. Just trying it out on one char at present as I see no reason to be rushing headlong into something that should be carefully planned. Lot's of ideas and very enthusiastic.

Xarc wrote: »

The least we can say is that subclassing is not overwhelming success.

Why, because 656 people in a gaming forum voted in a survey that was mostly an even split? It seems like you might be deducing what you want to deduce from those votes, many of which were placed before subclassing was even live.