SilverBride wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I am stunned by this change, and for the first time in many years of playing and enjoying the experience I am now contemplating my options.

My no pet Sorcerer is my oldest character, created soon after launch. I will not change her class identity or who she is.

Same here, I do not want to change my non-pet sorc. It is the only character I play so I'm forced into a corner here.
This is a bit beyond the scope of the OP's question because the original class concept is changing. Since now you lose all the passives in that skill like if you run no pet, "pure" just means one less skill line for non-pet builds.

And as they comment in the notes, those who do not want to play pets are expected to go multiclass.

Yudo wrote: »

And as they comment in the notes, those who do not want to play pets are expected to go multiclass.

That is what I am most upset about. Subclassing should be an option for players, not a requirement. This change is forcing Sorcerers to either subclass or use a pet. What about those of us that don't want to do either?

No pet Sorcerers have been a viable option for 11 years now. Subclassing hasn't even gone live yet, so if it is causing a potential problem with Sorcerers then it is what should be adjusted rather than the established class.

Probably going to quit for a while and keep track of what they do. I only do dungeons/arenas and mostly pvp. Battlegrounds have been okay but burnt out from that and wanted to get back in cyrodiil and IC, but nothing there but the same old routine. Boring

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Yudo wrote: »

I was planning to stay pure, but with deadric summoning for sorcs no longer supporting no-pet builds, I am actually not sure if I will bother.

What changes are they making that will no longer support no pet builds? I have 2 Sorcerers, one of which uses the volatile familiar and the other no pets. Neither uses the flappy, nor will they.

From the https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209/pts-patch-notes-v11-0-0

Sorcerer

Daedric Summoning
General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind.
Conjured Ward and morphs: Conjured Ward and Hardened Ward no longer heal the you if you do not have any pets active.
Regenerative Ward now heals you for ~5% of your Max Health or Max Magicka if you have a pet active.
Daedric Prey: This ability now increases the damage your Sorcerer pets deal to the target by 50%, instead of increasing the damage all of your pets deal to the target by 45%.
[Developer Comment]


With subclassing here, we've had to adjust this ability to prevent it from becoming egregiously overpowered when paired with the maximum use case of pets. We've gone forward with a model that largely retains the power where it already lies, where it buffs Sorcerer's pets - but slightly limited it where it will no longer work with proc based pets or other class pets.

So if I’m understanding this correctly, the three changes they are making are:

Making Conjured Ward and it’s morphs no longer also heal you in addition to shielding you if you have no pet active - wasn’t adding healing to Conjured Ward a fairly recent change to try and help no pet setups? I forget what update that happened in, does anyone recall? And for people who don’t use pets but don’t want to subclass and lose something as good as Conjured Ward and Bound Armor, would a good healing skill be Vibrant Shroud in the Dark Magic skill line or is Dark Conversion in that skill line the better choice?

Changing Daedric Prey to only work with Sorcerer pets instead of all pets, which includes those temporary pets that come from armor sets like Maw of the Infernal, correct? What other pets is it not working with that sorcerers had access to prior to Subclassing?

And the Expert Summoner passive - Before, it increased your max health by 5%/10% if you have a permanent pet active, and increased your max magicka and stamina by 5%/10% if you don’t have a permanent pet active. Now, it’s only going to increase your max health, magicka, and stamina by 5% if you have a permanent pet active. So, it’s lowering the health bonus, but adding magic and stamina to a pet sorcerer, but it’s taking away the magicka and stamina bonus for non-pet sorcerers, right?

Are there any other changes to be aware of regarding the Sorcerer class?

sans-culottes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Yudo wrote: »

And as they comment in the notes, those who do not want to play pets are expected to go multiclass.

That is what I am most upset about. Subclassing should be an option for players, not a requirement. This change is forcing Sorcerers to either subclass or use a pet. What about those of us that don't want to do either?

No pet Sorcerers have been a viable option for 11 years now. Subclassing hasn't even gone live yet, so if it is causing a potential problem with Sorcerers then it is what should be adjusted rather than the established class.

Well said, @SilverBride. The issue here is not just about pets or personal preference. It’s about how this change subtly nudges players away from the class identities they’ve built and enjoyed for years. For those of us who prefer to play within the established themes, it now feels like we’re being punished for not opting into a system that was marketed as optional. That undermines both the spirit of customization and the investment many of us have put into these characters over time.

The changes in the patch notes are bad, no doubt. Keep in mind this is only the beginning, and it is more than likely to get worse as ZOS flails around to attempt to get their bright new toy to work. We, who love our characters, are in for a very rough ride. This is turning into a real clown show.

To be frank, I haven't been this upset with ZOS since AWA was implemented. Just the idea of it is starting to negatively effect the pleasure I am getting from the game at present. It is such a shame after the enjoyment I had over the Vengeance week.

I don't PTS, so it is too early to decide. I am not thrilled about the Sorcerer skill line changes though. I will likely do some characters subclass at least.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Please reconsider the Sorcerer changes.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676232/pts-update-46-feedback-thread-for-classes-abilities/

Thank you. Feedback given.

TaSheen wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Other: leave the game, play something else.

Subtle "I'm leaving" post.

I view subclassing as your character learning new abilities/magic, which is completely Lore friendly. I'll like to see what I can fit into my characters.

I wasn't intending subtle. I hate subclassing/multiclassing, and I see no reason not to be blunt. Sorry if you're offended on behalf of whoever.

Stating the obvious =/= being offended.

I was undecided on whether or not to purchase the Season. This decided it for me.

If my oldest character, the Matriarch of my account, is not going to be able to perform without giving up her identity, well then preserving her identity is my priority. I will not purchase content she may not be able to succeed in.

Some characters of mine are lacking for what I want them to be able to do when playing single bar. Those I can subclass to another skillline to fill the gaps.

I'm not going to follow the meta or min-max, though I wil probably end up using some meta skills anyways. Really hope ZOS does not nerf anything because of subclassing, as something will always be better than something else. And nerfing is really painful and demotivating, basically anti-fun.

That said, I do agree with some players that pure classes need something special and a reason to stay pure class. Maybe a new special class ultimate that is five times more powerful than regular ultimates to compensate for subclassing's power when not using subclassing. Or maybe a special really powerful class transformation for each pure class only available to those without subclassing.

Cooperharley wrote: »

If you're a META chaser or a PvPer, you pretty much have no choice - the power difference between a pure class and a multiclass will be huge.

If you play the game casually, all it is is more options.

Yes and no. Yes, it's more options. But it's also the potential to ruin someone's fun in the game due to ZOS nerfing/changing skills and passives because of subclassing.

I can see the appeal of subclassing. My concern is whether playing my main will still be fun if I don't subclass.

Also, I'm not a meta chaser, but I often do dungeons with pugs. It's not going to be much fun if I go into a dungeon and everyone is parsing 100k more than me because my character isn't subclassed.

Anyway, I guess I'll see how it plays out. With you-know-what dropping next week, it might not matter much to me, anyway.

Elvenheart wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

If you're a META chaser or a PvPer, you pretty much have no choice - the power difference between a pure class and a multiclass will be huge.

If you play the game casually, all it is is more options.

Yes and no. Yes, it's more options. But it's also the potential to ruin someone's fun in the game due to ZOS nerfing/changing skills and passives because of subclassing.

I can see the appeal of subclassing. My concern is whether playing my main will still be fun if I don't subclass.

Also, I'm not a meta chaser, but I often do dungeons with pugs. It's not going to be much fun if I go into a dungeon and everyone is parsing 100k more than me because my character isn't subclassed.

Anyway, I guess I'll see how it plays out. With you-know-what dropping next week, it might not matter much to me, anyway.

Something big is dropping next week? Oh, I wish somebody could tell me what it is! I must be out of the loop! ♾️

(whispers) Oblivion Remastered.

I've already built a detailed new PVE build with base Warden skills and passives and ult, and subclassed Necro skills and passives, and Arcanist for a passive. And Mages guild skill and passives. And destruction staff passives.

I'm really looking forward to playing it and I'm sad I have to wait till it launches on June 2nd. Because I would play it right now. She'll be my new main. She hasn't done any PVE quests so I'm looking forward to running through the revamped starter zones and the main quest. I'll be doing it all in order.

I think with this build I'll be able to solo most content like group dungeons and world bosses and get past the first main boss in the archive which is what I've wanted to do.

I have never gotten the new Zerith companion so I'll be using him for a while but if he doesn't work out then I'll use Isobel because she does a lot of damage. She's really good.

This is my PVP Warden main who I'm using an armory slot to give her a PVE build. So now she'll be my overall main. Unless vengeance becomes the new PVP mode and then I'll use a sorc instead for that.

I was pretty shocked when they announced this during the live stream and my first thought was to make my PVE main better but then I realized I just never enjoyed the nightblade class and she was only weapon skills. I had a sunk cost fallacy with her. She'll just be my crafter now since she knows all the stuff.

I mean yeah I've got to learn Force lock again on my new main and that's annoying, and psijic portals, and undaunted passives, go skyshard hunting, all that kind of stuff, but it will be worth it to get a fresh start. Account wide achievements help with not feeling like I'm starting completely over.

I do have a question though. Should I level up my Arcanist alt who is a lowbie because I never enjoyed that class so that I can access the passive when this goes live? Not sure how that works. My necro is maxed out so I should be set there right?

shadyjane62 wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

If you're a META chaser or a PvPer, you pretty much have no choice - the power difference between a pure class and a multiclass will be huge.

If you play the game casually, all it is is more options.

Yes and no. Yes, it's more options. But it's also the potential to ruin someone's fun in the game due to ZOS nerfing/changing skills and passives because of subclassing.

I can see the appeal of subclassing. My concern is whether playing my main will still be fun if I don't subclass.

Also, I'm not a meta chaser, but I often do dungeons with pugs. It's not going to be much fun if I go into a dungeon and everyone is parsing 100k more than me because my character isn't subclassed.

Anyway, I guess I'll see how it plays out. With you-know-what dropping next week, it might not matter much to me, anyway.

Something big is dropping next week? Oh, I wish somebody could tell me what it is! I must be out of the loop! ♾️

(whispers) Oblivion Remastered.

It looks terrific. Just watched a walkthrough on YouTube.

Wow, that has come out of nowhere! It’s only been the last few days that something about Oblivion Remastered by Bethesda has just popped up in my feeds so I assumed it was still a long way off!

Wereswan wrote: »

SpiritKitten wrote: »

I've already built a detailed new PVE build with base Warden skills and passives and ult, and subclassed Necro skills and passives, and Arcanist for a passive. And Mages guild skill and passives. And destruction staff passives.

I'm really looking forward to playing it and I'm sad I have to wait till it launches on June 2nd. Because I would play it right now. She'll be my new main. She hasn't done any PVE quests so I'm looking forward to running through the revamped starter zones and the main quest. I'll be doing it all in order.

I think with this build I'll be able to solo most content like group dungeons and world bosses and get past the first main boss in the archive which is what I've wanted to do.

I have never gotten the new Zerith companion so I'll be using him for a while but if he doesn't work out then I'll use Isobel because she does a lot of damage. She's really good.

This is my PVP Warden main who I'm using an armory slot to give her a PVE build. So now she'll be my overall main. Unless vengeance becomes the new PVP mode and then I'll use a sorc instead for that.

I was pretty shocked when they announced this during the live stream and my first thought was to make my PVE main better but then I realized I just never enjoyed the nightblade class and she was only weapon skills. I had a sunk cost fallacy with her. She'll just be my crafter now since she knows all the stuff.

I mean yeah I've got to learn Force lock again on my new main and that's annoying, and psijic portals, and undaunted passives, go skyshard hunting, all that kind of stuff, but it will be worth it to get a fresh start. Account wide achievements help with not feeling like I'm starting completely over.

I do have a question though. Should I level up my Arcanist alt who is a lowbie because I never enjoyed that class so that I can access the passive when this goes live? Not sure how that works. My necro is maxed out so I should be set there right?

As I understand it:

There's an achievement that unlocks for each class skill line you have leveled to 50. Once you have that achievement, you can add that class line to any other class in place of one of your existing skill lines, and it will be at rank 50. If you don't have the new skill line leveled you will have to do so as normal, and it'll take twice the time of your "native" class skills. Progress on that is also tracked account-wide.

So if you want access to Arcanist skill lines on your alts, leveling them natively on your Arcanist will be faster (and can be done right now, before the patch drops.)

Okay that's what I'll do then is I'll just power level my Arcanist on that one skill line. Before June 2nd. Thanks.