@Sylv3r Shouldn't really advertise them imho

KerinKor wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Blizzard won an injunction against a company.

Actually you need to read and understand that judgement very carefully to see it's a very rare situation and Blizzard didn't win on the argument writing game hacks is 'illegal' in any sense.

IIRC Blizzard won on IP/copyright grounds against a company with a US base that meant they fell within US civil jurisdiction .. there's a reason RMT is largely based in China and many bot writers are in Russia and other East European countries.

While you may want to believe it, US Civil law doesn't apply to the whole world.

Hence my desire to give away islands and the mention of relevant jurisdictions. I expect China has a judicial system and I expect there are international agreements that can be enforced at state level.

China has shown zero regard for 'western' IP/copyright interests up to now and I hardly think video games where there is no demonstrable 'damage' to the IP owner is the place they'll start.

In fact, at least some of these botters/gold farmers have, in the past, been shown to be slave labor workers.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

IP/copyright issues are the least of the problems here. All western game companies can do is protect their own interests.

ttwinklerub17_ESO wrote: »

there is an automated script that creates the bot runs the small quest and then deposits the dough in bank and then deletes char and creates a new one
imagine 8 of them in an account doing that all day - with speedhacks

the scripters are winning

ZOS has to start with the client and protection mechs
then deal with trading - take away their way to make real money

Then some very substantial changes to game design and mechanics are needed. But it's all stable door stuff, when the stable door shouldn't have been designed open in the first place.

i'm all for drastic and draconian attempt to cut the ability of sellers to deliver to buyers. No inter-account gold transfers. Motifs and anything rare bound to account, no guild store prices more than 4*vendor price (which will make it hard for a player to receive their gold by 'selling' things for huge prices so the gold seller 'buys' it. If you have to grind 400 of a resource to get just 6400 gold from a gold seller then it starts being a real pain) and removal of gold sinks.

Make it so that it's very hard to get gold delivered and reduce the need for it by eliminating repair bills and cutting horse/respec costs by a factor of 10.

Drastic but unless they can do something more effective than has been done up til now, it might become necessary.

Sylv3r wrote: »

yeah but its in states and there are law against that

What "is in the states"?

So many posting aboujt legal issue they have no idea about.

Catflinger wrote: »

IP/copyright issues are the least of the problems here. All western game companies can do is protect their own interests.

You clearly don't get it do you?

Yes of course they have to protect their interests but that means having legal grounds to file cases in a civil jurisdiction. They have to find somewhere to bring a case which has jurisdiction over the entity they wish to sue and then find legal grounds to do so: and there are patently no criminal grounds here and never have been.

You may want to ignore the legal realities, ZOS and all other MMO publishers can't which is why we have still to see a successful case against gold sellers or bot users .. and why we've only seen one successful case against a bot writer ON COPYRIGHT GROUNDS.

Blizzard did NOT win by getting a legal ruling that writing and distributing game hacks is 'illegal'.

KerinKor wrote: »

Catflinger wrote: »

IP/copyright issues are the least of the problems here. All western game companies can do is protect their own interests.

You clearly don't get it do you. Yes of course they have to protect their interests but that means having legal grounds to file cases in a civil jurisdiction.

I get it; I am aware of the history between gaming companies and bot makers/sellers -- possibly moreso than you, judging from your comments. Yes, it's possible to shut these guys down, sometimes. Blizzard won big-time against the makers of GliderBot and the guy known as "Markee Dragon" when selling was GliderBot. But that was in western courts under western copyright law, and it still took time to do. What's the status of bots in WoW at the moment? There's a seriously annoying company operating out of Europe that sells bots of all kinds, from gathering to pvp to pve. They're a boil on Blizzard's backside. They've tried litigation. All Blizz can do until they win against the maker is ban the users of the bots in mass waves.

And users operating out of China, who might not even be using a commercially available product that is traceable? Users who are chained to a computer in some remote province because they are slaves? How do you file legal cases to stop this kind of stuff? What do you do in the meantime?

whatever eso decide to do I will support them even I dislike the gold sellers and spammers etc , as a player all you can do is report them ,the game is made they way it is period, there will of course be changes along the way , but most of the posts if not all should all be rolled into 1 post .
we all have suggested over many mmos best way to tackle the issues , these things can take a very long time to resolve , so its better to help by reporting them bots etc and support the game ,

@‌bobsrevenge
You know how many i have reported theses last days ?
More then 30 per days ! Most of my timeplay ...
Nothing changed .. they still there .. so its why i posted in first to have some answer.

Sylv3r wrote: »

@KerinKor
Maybe.
But that not mean we cant let it exist and continue this.
This phenomena is during since years and nothing has really be done to avoid it definitatively despite the saying of producer that said they know the problem.
Game industry is a major industry now. Not a little place in a little corner that noone know.
Security is the key to keep people playing.

Well, the MMO industry has been pretty large for a good number of years and RMT has infested games since at least 2002 when FFXI started and maybe earlier.

Yes, it needs dealing with, trouble is that can only be done by legal means and what I'm trying to explain to those who think it's 'illegal' to write bots, use bots, etc. in reality it isn't!

Breaking a game's TOS is not a criminal offence, and thus being a civil one the actions available to ZOS, Blizzard, Trion, etc. are very, very limited no matter how large they may be.

These gold guys are only after one thing...real money...okay, okay...here is the point... make rares account-bound. Limit the sale value of vital resources in guild trade.

before you start screaming now... in any of the 10 MMO's I have played over twenty years, rares were bound to the Account or Character (at least until they were not rare any longer), full stop. Why not in ESO. Why are motives not bound to the account? Why are rare resources not bound to the Account?

It was pointed out to me that the gold sellers actually do not sell gold but launder it. They buy rares off players for much gold and sell the rares for real money. They do this because large gold transactions can be justified this way as legitimate trade. If rares however can not be sold... do you see the point...

Okay...stop screaming... I know people will not agree with such measures because you get MUCH gold this way. I mean... who can resist being offered 50000, 75000 or even100000 gold for a rare item. To the Bot-slavers this is nothing and they sell the rares for real cash to whom? Your guess. As for the lower end of the community..the Uber players do not care that Bots spoil our fun.

Come on...stop screaming, come up with other ideas because what is done now does NOT work.

Okay, now start telling me why it can not be done...but all your really will be telling me is why YOU do not want it to be done.

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

It's actually getting impossible to report bots. They move too fast and in too great a number to identify.

And like others, I get disheartened when you see reported bots still at work days later.

Totally agree, I actually feel dirty mining a node in Bleakrock now as I wonder how many legit players will think I'm a bot just because I'm mining iron.

At the moment of writing this post whole TRAINS of bots are running on EU megaserver, in Glenumbra area at the Lion Guard Depot, killing zombies. Zenimax's total inability to deal with this had led already to the point where these bots and cheaters are not afraid to do this OPENLY and in MIDDLE OF A DAY. Public dungeons? Same thing, one bot train after another, like a frikkin' train station. Solo dungeons? Bots swarm the bosses like flies swarm a carcass. Customer Support? Nowhere to be seen. Nowhere to be heard.

I've reported this many times, many bots. Many others have. But ZM is doing nothing. I've already told them many times that selling the game access through game time codes or cash or such is the way these bots get in, but does ZM care? Apparently not. Guess they don't want to lose the income from gold sellers and bots. Funny that they fail to see how they will start losing income from subscribers who will get fed up with this CRAP.

It's gone so bad now that the bots, who used to camp only starter areas, are appearing in mid-level areas, dungeons and public dungeons. Bots are appearing already in Coldharbor. Gold seller e-mails are already not offering to sell just the in-game gold but also HIGH LEVEL RARE MOTIFS. Which means they're already farming places beyond Coldharbor. Again, where is ZM in all of this? Nowhere! They claim to be dealing with this but the only thing we see is how this is getting WORSE and BIGGER with each passing day. Like I said, they're doing it already openly and in middle of a day and don't care who sees them and who reports them, because they know that nothing will happen to them.

You know, back when MMO was a new concept and first MMO games came out and hacking and cheating was running rampart, I thought that it was the worst time. Sure I can understand, it was a new concept for all, both the MMO and the whole project as such so no-one was yet away back then about such cases, they solved them as it happened. So I thought that I've seen the worst there is in UO and things have been improved over the years. Well, I was wrong. TESO is right now even worse. In UO the hackers never dared to do things openly since Origin had GM's on the servers who were swatting and banning people and actually fixing things. Here? Nothing.

Well, let me tell you one thing. This is not the only MMO out there, like it was back then. There will be a limit on how much honest subscribing customers can take this nonsense. So keep it going, you'll end up with just gold sellers in your game in future if it will continue like this. But hey, at least they'll keep buying your game time and game time cards so you're happy with that, yes? Who cares about the rest.

@Lorgren_Benirus‌
Its sad to be said but you are true. The game is taken over by bots at all part of it ... i have read that some of them are running R1/R2 etc .. see
The solution to let players play their game is to have GM online.
Its simple, efficient and need to be done.

@steveb16_ESO46‌
I report them .. ohh not all its really impossible, but i can catch few and report them.
But dunno now if it serve or not are they continue their deal.

Savinder wrote: »

There need to be some "reality checks" programmed into this game, and they had to be put in before the game launched. Flying and tunneling bots should not be present, and yet they still are and the former are also very visible, zipping in the sky in straight lines and all.

Not sure if this is the case, but had read somewhere that much of the game is controlled by clients, which facilitates the hacking we see.

Like someone previously mentioned, I also believe that ZO needs to go after those who also purchase gold and rare items. If those accounts start getting suspended in waves, then perhaps people will start thinking twice about cheating. And those that do currently, you are really the ones to blame for the bots and killing the game.

The respec costs are the real killer, especially as when you spend skill points it's not clear what you are getting. We're talking tens of thousands in gold so it's no wonder some people just buy the stuff.

Cutting demand by cutting these costs seems an easy way to buy time to fix things. Cut repair, respec and horse costs by a factor of 10 and i bet th demand for gold will plummet.