kargen27 wrote: »

I'm in wait and see mode. Not in purchasing this season pass, I've already done that. We were told this year would be a transition year from chapters to season passes so we are not seeing what the end product will be going forward.

If you get ESO+ and the season pass the game is still a bargain compared to most other forms of entertainment if you play at least three hours a month.

Gonna use this to reply to a few comments people have made about it only being x amount more a year, or still a good deal compared to other entertainment options, or how ESO+ is more for the craft bag or crowns etc. I'm not disagreeing with that, or even presenting an opinion on it. But its also not the point I was making.

The entire point of this post was a value comparison between the current and future content models for different customers, and how being an ESO+ subscriber devalues the Season Pass as a purchase compared to those who don't have ESO+.

(Sorry Kargen for using your reply as a jumping off point)

T3vvy wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I'm in wait and see mode. Not in purchasing this season pass, I've already done that. We were told this year would be a transition year from chapters to season passes so we are not seeing what the end product will be going forward.

If you get ESO+ and the season pass the game is still a bargain compared to most other forms of entertainment if you play at least three hours a month.

Gonna use this to reply to a few comments people have made about it only being x amount more a year, or still a good deal compared to other entertainment options, or how ESO+ is more for the craft bag or crowns etc. I'm not disagreeing with that, or even presenting an opinion on it. But its also not the point I was making.

The entire point of this post was a value comparison between the current and future content models for different customers, and how being an ESO+ subscriber devalues the Season Pass as a purchase compared to those who don't have ESO+.

(Sorry Kargen for using your reply as a jumping off point)

I understand this point of view but I'm looking at it from an individual perspective. Each person will need to decide for themselves which combination of ESO+ and Season Pass works for them. And I really don't see it as devaluing the Season Pass. Not a perfect analogy but look at an all you can eat buffet. Some people will eat much more than others. That doesn't mean the people who ate less are getting less as it pertains to each individual. They both got what they wanted.

A more global view and you are correct.

T3vvy wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This doesn't really change anything as far as value for eso+, but you left out the world event....

World event is base game

Isn't part of it base game part of it part of the season?

Gabriel_H wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

And at the moment, the only value added is the furniture vault

ESO+ gives you the aforementioned furniture vault, craft bag, double bank space, 10% extra Gold, XP, AP, AF, Inspiration, reduced prices in Crown Store deals (and some freebies), double furnishings in homes, and 1,650 Crowns per month ... oh and early access to the 2025 dungeons.

That's all stuff that was already in ESO+, this post was talking about the only new addition.

I've said this in another thread but I think they have made quite a serious mistake here and ended up looking like they're deliberately ripping off ESO+ customers.

To top and tail my thoughts on this previously, I think they should have done as follows:

- Sell the content pass.

- Sell a content pass "premium", which includes everything the content pass does, including permanent content ownership, plus six months (say) of ESO plus with all the associated perks, at a price that is less than the full total of content pass plus ESO+.

The added bonus for ZOS is that this may well induce long term subscriptions to ESO+ after the included time is up, rather than, at present, the likely outcome that you are going to drive existing subscribers *away from* ESO+.

I own all the DLCs I want and all the chapters for the game. I have zero interest in dungeon/group content, PVP, or housing. I do not play ESO for those things. So, paying 50 bucks for the worm cults 1 and 2, plus dungeons I have zero interest in, is out of the question for me. This will turn into a big mistake for ZOS. They should have had an option to just buy the worm cult content only. And right now it's too late for them to offer it, as people are buying this pass already. So for me, I won't see the new zones. And may play the game less because of it. I think this was a bad move.

Faulgor wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

I've said this in another thread but I think they have made quite a serious mistake here and ended up looking like they're deliberately ripping off ESO+ customers.

To top and tail my thoughts on this previously, I think they should have done as follows:

- Sell the content pass.

- Sell a content pass "premium", which includes everything the content pass does, including permanent content ownership, plus six months (say) of ESO plus with all the associated perks, at a price that is less than the full total of content pass plus ESO+.

The added bonus for ZOS is that this may well induce long term subscriptions to ESO+ after the included time is up, rather than, at present, the likely outcome that you are going to drive existing subscribers *away from* ESO+.

There are several ways they could have done this better. I'm reluctant to suggest anything in particular, but frankly I just want the old ESO+ back, the one that gave me access to everything in the game without having to jump through hoops.

If they have to remove something from this new offering, so be it. E.g. they could get rid of the Crown stipend, which might also put the breaks on Crown inflation a bit. Call it ESO-.

The point is that ESO + really needs to feel like it is *adding* value versus normal content purchases. Right now, it looks the opposite, like it's the option for mugs who want to pay twice for the same content.

I was hoping to get at least three months of ESO+ with the Season Pass. I'll just but the chapters later on. I don't get to play but a couple hours a day, if that. Still so much content that I haven't finished, but three months of ESO+ would have definitely been a selling point for me to buy the Season Pass.

You get more people to do those four dungeons with.

I'm group 4 - previously, I'd just use ESO+ to access them and buy the CE of the chapter

I'm not worried about the value of ESO+. I mainly use it for inventory QoL and dungeons. That being said, I'm not a fan of this first iteration of the season pass.

In general, I'm not a fan of their pricing model. It's extremely a la carte. Let's just take dungeons for instance - sure, it's nice they're included in ESO+, but other games, like WoW, they're part of the expansion. The season pass could've addressed this problem.

Were the zone truly a chapter-sized zone, I'd be ok with getting the season's pass. Instead, it seems like the would-be chapter zone is very, very light on content and then being split across the Q2 and Q4 releases. To get that, I have to buy content I'd otherwise not buy. All for the price of $10 USD more. It's not that that's a lot of money, but it feels like we're getting shrinkflation here. That's where I take a step back and just wait for this to come to ESO+.

My other big concern, and time will tell, is if/when there's years with multiple season - are they going to be this price multiple times a year?

T3vvy wrote: »

The_Oakster wrote: »

This is just another post where you value something differently to other people as proven by the 1st comment. Twice in your post you undervalued things to make your point work. I'm not saying you're wrong to have your opinion, but its not insight into it being bad business, its just bad business in your opinion because of how you value the products.

Arguably, in your opinion, its actually great business sense as you think people are paying more for less!

Great for ZoS yes, bad for the consumer

And there's the rub. You're both right, to a certain extent. I think the way ZOS would probably frame it (if they were being completely candid) is that they are imposing a price hike, but only on the customers who are most likely to be willing to pay it. In that sense, it is either a good or a bad business decision depending on whether their assumption turns out to be true or not. Time will tell.

ETA: my personal perspective on this is that I have always been in group four: buys both. And right now I'm annoyed. But I will see how it goes... if it turns out to be a great year of content, in terms of both quality and quantity, and I feel like I get my money's worth, then fine. If not... well, there's always the Oblivion remaster.