Why the new Season Pass model is bad business

T3vvy · April 11

Thought I would summarise my thoughts on why the Season Pass model is bad business, and kind of a slap in the face to ESO+ subscribers. Prices are in GBP bc I'm a Brit. I am counting the Season Pass this year as analogous to a chapter, considering its already been mentioned by ZoS that this is a transitionary year.

Currently when looking at people who play the game in relation to buying ESO+ and Chapters, you can separate the players into 4 categories:

Doesn't buy Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: under the new model, nothing changes for these players.

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: These players do get a benefit from this change, as they along with the years 'chapter' content (Solstice Parts 1 and 2), now get dungeons! Good for them. You could argue that they aren't actually getting any extra value for their money, as the Season Pass is £9 more expensive than the previous chapter was on release (Gold Road base edition was £33.99 on Steam, Season Pass is £42.99). However, this is impossible to quantify at the moment, as we don't know how large Solstice 1+2 is. If combined it contains more content than a regular chapter, then its good value for money

Buys ESO+, doesn't buy Chapters: These players also receive some benefit. They still get access to dungeons, still get access to old chapters, still get access to all the other ESO+ goodies. But now they also get access to the furniture vault. We don't know yet if Seasons will be added to ESO+ after the initial release a la chapters, so we can't quantify any lost or gained value from that.

Buys both ESO+ and Chapters: This is where the issue is. Due to the new dungeons being included in the Season Pass, they are effectively 'removed' as value from ESO+. Or another way of looking at is that you are paying the same price as people without ESO+, but with less actual ingame content being unlocked for that money, since you already get access to the new dungeons. Oh and I guess you get furniture vault.

Obviously you can make points about owning content vs having access to it via ESO+, but that doesn't really apply unless you let your ESO+ end.

The reason this is bad business, is that the people in the last category are the people who are paying the most money. By adding the dungeons to this Season Pass, you have removed a large amount of value from ESO+. And at the moment, the only value added is the furniture vault, which in my opinion is not of equal value to 4 new dungeons (It also appeals to a completely different demographic of player). So unless there is a plan to reduce the cost of ESO+, or add more features, then you have devalued it for the money you pay for it for a large number of players.

TL;DR Adding the dungeons to Season Pass actively devalues ESO+ for the players who buy the Season Pass aka the people paying the most money

Dragonnord · April 11

I pay ESO Plus since day 1 and doesn't feel devaluated at all.

I will still receive everything I'm used to get (but last "Chapter" - now Season) so nothing changed for me.

I will now even get the Furniture Vault for free.

belial5221_ESO · April 11

Basically you're buying Crowns(which you don't account for) with eso+,and all the other stuff free.Season pass you get no crowns or other stuff plus gets.So if you own all dlcs and chapters,and don't need crowns or dying,get pass.If you want everything get eso+.

DigiAngel · April 11

I'm category 2. With the difference is that I wait until the chapters are on a huge sale (got Necrom for $10, Gold Road for $11).

SerafinaWaterstar · April 11

In UK it works out as around £5 a year more for the Season Pass and not the old Chapter model.

Price of a pint.

msetten · April 11

ESO+ members also gets a new perk: the Furnishing Vault, which is said to be eso+ only (was mentioned in the post twitch show last night)

Furthermore, those that have ESO+ and buy the chapters (like I do), do not really get anything less than they have now. They now get the dungeons as part of the pass, and without pass would have also gained accessed via ESO+, so this isn't something that stays the same as far as access to the dungeons go. But in the new situation, if I cancel my ESO+ subscription, I will still have access to those dungeons that were part of the pass, while if I cancel in the current situation, I don't have access to any of the DLC dungeons that I always received access to via ESO+

I my view, the content pass is just another name for the yearly purchase with the main difference being that the content you got when it was called a Chapter isn't released all at once, but in stages over the year.

And okay, there is a bit of price increase. But what isn't getting price increases these days.

The_Oakster · April 11

This is just another post where you value something differently to other people as proven by the 1st comment. Twice in your post you undervalued things to make your point work. I'm not saying you're wrong to have your opinion, but its not insight into it being bad business, its just bad business in your opinion because of how you value the products.

Arguably, in your opinion, its actually great business sense as you think people are paying more for less!

T3vvy · April 11

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

In UK it works out as around £5 a year more for the Season Pass and not the old Chapter model.

Price of a pint.

How did you get £5? It's 9. Previous Chapter was £33.99, Season Pass is £42.99

T3vvy · April 11

The_Oakster wrote: »

This is just another post where you value something differently to other people as proven by the 1st comment. Twice in your post you undervalued things to make your point work. I'm not saying you're wrong to have your opinion, but its not insight into it being bad business, its just bad business in your opinion because of how you value the products.

Arguably, in your opinion, its actually great business sense as you think people are paying more for less!

Great for ZoS yes, bad for the consumer

tsaescishoeshiner · April 11

Doesn't buy Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: Under the new design priorities, these players get more basegame features like subclassing, Infinite Archive, PvP reworks, zone refreshes, and the increased Quality-of-Life changes we've been seeing. I think the benefits here make it really good for business, especially long-term. It feels like a more community-focused strategy.

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: On top of the basegame improvements, they get dungeons and other content with Season Passes. Getting access to a whole year's story also gives them one big narrative arc, instead of half the story in one zone and half in a zone that's a separate purchase.

Buys ESO+, doesn't buy Chapters: On top of the basegame improvements, they're mostly the same. But they've added new types of ESO+ content like last year's Companions, which Chapter buyers didn't get.

Buys both ESO+ and Chapters: They get the same amount of content, even with some redundancy in the overlap between ESO+ and Chapters. It does slightly disincentivize ESO+, but that comes with many crucial benefits such as old DLC, craft bag, bank and housing space, costume dying. We didn't get Q4 DLC zones the past 2 years, and less ESO+ content overall, and I wonder if they noticed from data that it didn't impact subscription rates.

Myself, a player who buys Chapters and has ESO+ when I'm playing actively: I benefit from these changes because they benefit the community overall. My experience in ESO is best when new and existing players stick around longer, and I think these changes support that.

T3vvy · April 11

msetten wrote: »

ESO+ members also gets a new perk: the Furnishing Vault, which is said to be eso+ only (was mentioned in the post twitch show last night)

Furthermore, those that have ESO+ and buy the chapters (like I do), do not really get anything less than they have now. They now get the dungeons as part of the pass, and without pass would have also gained accessed via ESO+, so this isn't something that stays the same as far as access to the dungeons go. But in the new situation, if I cancel my ESO+ subscription, I will still have access to those dungeons that were part of the pass, while if I cancel in the current situation, I don't have access to any of the DLC dungeons that I always received access to via ESO+

I my view, the content pass is just another name for the yearly purchase with the main difference being that the content you got when it was called a Chapter isn't released all at once, but in stages over the year.

And okay, there is a bit of price increase. But what isn't getting price increases these days.

If you don't have ESO+, and buy the Season pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2, as well as dungeon packs.

If you have ESO+, and buy the Season Pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2. You are paying the same amount of money for the Season pass, but getting less value for it.

T3vvy · April 11

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Doesn't buy Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: Under the new design priorities, these players get more basegame features like subclassing, Infinite Archive, PvP reworks, zone refreshes, and the increased Quality-of-Life changes we've been seeing. I think the benefits here make it really good for business, especially long-term. It feels like a more community-focused strategy.

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: On top of the basegame improvements, they get dungeons and other content with Season Passes. Getting access to a whole year's story also gives them one big narrative arc, instead of half the story in one zone and half in a zone that's a separate purchase.

Buys ESO+, doesn't buy Chapters: On top of the basegame improvements, they're mostly the same. But they've added new types of ESO+ content like last year's Companions, which Chapter buyers didn't get.

Buys both ESO+ and Chapters: They get the same amount of content, even with some redundancy in the overlap between ESO+ and Chapters. It does slightly disincentivize ESO+, but that comes with many crucial benefits such as old DLC, craft bag, bank and housing space, costume dying. We didn't get Q4 DLC zones the past 2 years, and less ESO+ content overall, and I wonder if they noticed from data that it didn't impact subscription rates.

Myself, a player who buys Chapters and has ESO+ when I'm playing actively: I benefit from these changes because they benefit the community overall. My experience in ESO is best when new and existing players stick around longer, and I think these changes support that.

Ok, but it shouldn't be on the consumer to lose value for money just to improve the community. Its a 2 billion dollar game. Not a charity.

Lumsdenml · April 11

This doesn't really change anything as far as value for eso+, but you left out the world event....

T3vvy · April 11

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This doesn't really change anything as far as value for eso+, but you left out the world event....

World event is base game

Dragonnord · April 11

T3vvy wrote: »

msetten wrote: »

ESO+ members also gets a new perk: the Furnishing Vault, which is said to be eso+ only (was mentioned in the post twitch show last night)

Furthermore, those that have ESO+ and buy the chapters (like I do), do not really get anything less than they have now. They now get the dungeons as part of the pass, and without pass would have also gained accessed via ESO+, so this isn't something that stays the same as far as access to the dungeons go. But in the new situation, if I cancel my ESO+ subscription, I will still have access to those dungeons that were part of the pass, while if I cancel in the current situation, I don't have access to any of the DLC dungeons that I always received access to via ESO+

I my view, the content pass is just another name for the yearly purchase with the main difference being that the content you got when it was called a Chapter isn't released all at once, but in stages over the year.

And okay, there is a bit of price increase. But what isn't getting price increases these days.

If you don't have ESO+, and buy the Season pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2, as well as dungeon packs.

If you have ESO+, and buy the Season Pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2. You are paying the same amount of money for the Season pass, but getting less value for it.

So?

If now someone without ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road as well as all old Chapters.

If now someone with ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road only.

Same thing that have always happened.

T3vvy · April 11

Dragonnord wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

msetten wrote: »

ESO+ members also gets a new perk: the Furnishing Vault, which is said to be eso+ only (was mentioned in the post twitch show last night)

Furthermore, those that have ESO+ and buy the chapters (like I do), do not really get anything less than they have now. They now get the dungeons as part of the pass, and without pass would have also gained accessed via ESO+, so this isn't something that stays the same as far as access to the dungeons go. But in the new situation, if I cancel my ESO+ subscription, I will still have access to those dungeons that were part of the pass, while if I cancel in the current situation, I don't have access to any of the DLC dungeons that I always received access to via ESO+

I my view, the content pass is just another name for the yearly purchase with the main difference being that the content you got when it was called a Chapter isn't released all at once, but in stages over the year.

And okay, there is a bit of price increase. But what isn't getting price increases these days.

If you don't have ESO+, and buy the Season pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2, as well as dungeon packs.

If you have ESO+, and buy the Season Pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2. You are paying the same amount of money for the Season pass, but getting less value for it.

So?

If now someone without ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road as well as all old Chapters.

If now someone with ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road only.

Same thing that have always happened.

Except the premium version is an upgraded version to include extra stuff. Not the base version. If there was a version of the Season Pass that just included Solstice 1 and 2 I wouldn't have made this post.

Ph1p · April 11

T3vvy wrote: »

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: These players do get a benefit from this change, as they along with the years 'chapter' content (Solstice Parts 1 and 2), now get dungeons! Good for them. You could argue that they aren't actually getting any extra value for their money, as the Season Pass is £9 more expensive than the previous chapter was on release (Gold Road base edition was £33.99 on Steam, Season Pass is £42.99). However, this is impossible to quantify at the moment, as we don't know how large Solstice 1+2 is. If combined it contains more content than a regular chapter, then its good value for money

This isn't necessarily a good deal: A non-subscriber who still has Crowns from previous transactions will find them less useful now. In the past, I would have purchased the new chapter on Steam for 40€, then bought the dungeon DLCs with Crowns. Now I pay 50€ for a new "chapter" and two dungeon DLCs - one of which has already been out since a month - and am still stuck with the Crowns I already own and paid for. Maybe just an edge case, but it doesn't sit right with me, especially since it specifically hits people who actually want to buy everything and have been paying customers in the past (beyond just buying the game).

Dragonnord · April 11

T3vvy wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

msetten wrote: »

ESO+ members also gets a new perk: the Furnishing Vault, which is said to be eso+ only (was mentioned in the post twitch show last night)

Furthermore, those that have ESO+ and buy the chapters (like I do), do not really get anything less than they have now. They now get the dungeons as part of the pass, and without pass would have also gained accessed via ESO+, so this isn't something that stays the same as far as access to the dungeons go. But in the new situation, if I cancel my ESO+ subscription, I will still have access to those dungeons that were part of the pass, while if I cancel in the current situation, I don't have access to any of the DLC dungeons that I always received access to via ESO+

I my view, the content pass is just another name for the yearly purchase with the main difference being that the content you got when it was called a Chapter isn't released all at once, but in stages over the year.

And okay, there is a bit of price increase. But what isn't getting price increases these days.

If you don't have ESO+, and buy the Season pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2, as well as dungeon packs.

If you have ESO+, and buy the Season Pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2. You are paying the same amount of money for the Season pass, but getting less value for it.

So?

If now someone without ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road as well as all old Chapters.

If now someone with ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road only.

Same thing that have always happened.

Except the premium version is an upgraded version to include extra stuff. Not the base version. If there was a version of the Season Pass that just included Solstice 1 and 2 I wouldn't have made this post.

Again, so?

If someone without ESO Plus wants to have access to all old Chapters they need to buy the PREMIUM edition of Season Pass.

While players that have ESO Plus don't need to buy anything to have access to the old Chapters.

robwolf666 · April 11

I'm not that bothered about the Vault tbh, I've got enough houses to furnish, plus a couple of empty plots like Plateau to stash stuff I don't use.

The only annoyance I have is the yearly price increase. A bit like everything else these days, you pay more for the same amount of stuff, or less.

Diminish · April 11

Let's just simplify the "content pass" and call it what it is... it's a "chapter" with a small price change. Only this time around, it may reduce the value of ESO+ like the OP mentioned. I don't really understand this change unless they plan to sunset old content from the passes as new content releases. Essentially, you won't "own" anything. Whatever the reason for this change is, it's ZOS; I'm sure it will benefit them more than players.

T3vvy · April 11

Ph1p wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: These players do get a benefit from this change, as they along with the years 'chapter' content (Solstice Parts 1 and 2), now get dungeons! Good for them. You could argue that they aren't actually getting any extra value for their money, as the Season Pass is £9 more expensive than the previous chapter was on release (Gold Road base edition was £33.99 on Steam, Season Pass is £42.99). However, this is impossible to quantify at the moment, as we don't know how large Solstice 1+2 is. If combined it contains more content than a regular chapter, then its good value for money

This isn't necessarily a good deal: A non-subscriber who still has Crowns from previous transactions will find them less useful now. In the past, I would have purchased the new chapter on Steam for 40€, then bought the dungeon DLCs with Crowns. Now I pay 50€ for a new "chapter" and two dungeon DLCs - one of which has already been out since a month - and am still stuck with the Crowns I already own and paid for. Maybe just an edge case, but it doesn't sit right with me, especially since it specifically hits people who actually want to buy everything and have been paying customers in the past (beyond just buying the game).

That's actually a really good point, ty for bringing it up

T3vvy · April 11

robwolf666 wrote: »

I'm not that bothered about the Vault tbh, I've got enough houses to furnish, plus a couple of empty plots like Plateau to stash stuff I don't use.

The only annoyance I have is the yearly price increase. A bit like everything else these days, you pay more for the same amount of stuff, or less.

Same here, I don't really care for housing, so furniture vault isn't adding any value for me specifically. I mentioned it in the initial post because it will be useful for some people, and maybe for some people it is worth more than 4 new dungeons

T3vvy · April 11

Diminish wrote: »

Let's just simplify the "content pass" and call it what it is... it's a "chapter" with a small price change. Only this time around, it may reduce the value of ESO+ like the OP mentioned. I don't really understand this change unless they plan to sunset old content from the passes as new content releases. Essentially, you won't "own" anything. Whatever the reason for this change is, it's ZOS; I'm sure it will benefit them more than players.

I will say I think part of the reason for the name change is that they've mentioned this is a transitional year, so the content is still fairly similarly structured to a chapter, but future seasons might be different.

T3vvy · April 11

Dragonnord wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

msetten wrote: »

ESO+ members also gets a new perk: the Furnishing Vault, which is said to be eso+ only (was mentioned in the post twitch show last night)

Furthermore, those that have ESO+ and buy the chapters (like I do), do not really get anything less than they have now. They now get the dungeons as part of the pass, and without pass would have also gained accessed via ESO+, so this isn't something that stays the same as far as access to the dungeons go. But in the new situation, if I cancel my ESO+ subscription, I will still have access to those dungeons that were part of the pass, while if I cancel in the current situation, I don't have access to any of the DLC dungeons that I always received access to via ESO+

I my view, the content pass is just another name for the yearly purchase with the main difference being that the content you got when it was called a Chapter isn't released all at once, but in stages over the year.

And okay, there is a bit of price increase. But what isn't getting price increases these days.

If you don't have ESO+, and buy the Season pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2, as well as dungeon packs.

If you have ESO+, and buy the Season Pass, you are paying £42.99, and you get access to Solstice Part 1 and 2. You are paying the same amount of money for the Season pass, but getting less value for it.

So?

If now someone without ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road as well as all old Chapters.

If now someone with ESO Plus buys Gold Road Premium Edition they get Gold Road only.

Same thing that have always happened.

Except the premium version is an upgraded version to include extra stuff. Not the base version. If there was a version of the Season Pass that just included Solstice 1 and 2 I wouldn't have made this post.

Again, so?

If someone without ESO Plus wants to have access to all old Chapters they need to buy the PREMIUM edition of Season Pass.

While players that have ESO Plus don't need to buy anything to have access to the old Chapters.

Yeah, except the people with ESO Plus... are paying for ESO Plus. So they're paying money for access to those old chapters. That's why I was specifically talking about the dungeons in this scenario, because that's where the change in value comes from here.

KCMail · April 11

Not to do with value really, but If I want to play the new story I NEED to buy the dungeon packs, If I don't use ESO+ and want to avoid DLC dungeons in my RND queues I can't buy the new story

I understand wanting to bundle everything into a "season", but having a choice of the content you want from the season should be there too

Twohothardware · April 11

Noones forcing anyone to buy an ESO+ sub. You can drop your sub and just buy the new 2025 season pass.

ESO+ value has always been more for the hardcore players that want the crafting bag, double bank space, double housing, monthly crowns and freebies.

T3vvy · April 11

Twohothardware wrote: »

Noones forcing anyone to buy an ESO+ sub. You can drop your sub and just buy the new 2025 season pass.

ESO+ value has always been more for the hardcore players that want the crafting bag, double bank space, double housing, monthly crowns and freebies.

That's why I said it was bad business. Because it is disincentivising people from buying ESO+ by devaluing it. I'm not saying anyone is being forced to buy it, I'm saying that the value of it has decreased and ZoS should think about this because of how it will affect customer satisfaction.

ImmortalCX · April 11

I am category 5. Buy expansions on sale, grind gold to buy DLC on sale.

If the new dungeons can't be purchased with crowns, then I am locked out.

Also, I would buy major expansions for cash on sale, but I can't see myself paying cash for a mini zone and a couple dungeons. Maybe if there is a deep discount in the last months of the year, and I get to keep all the stuff.

These zone are likely to be very small and barebones.

They are basically bunding alot of low effort content together and eliminating the other ways that people used to get them.

spartaxoxo · April 11

Ph1p wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: These players do get a benefit from this change, as they along with the years 'chapter' content (Solstice Parts 1 and 2), now get dungeons! Good for them. You could argue that they aren't actually getting any extra value for their money, as the Season Pass is £9 more expensive than the previous chapter was on release (Gold Road base edition was £33.99 on Steam, Season Pass is £42.99). However, this is impossible to quantify at the moment, as we don't know how large Solstice 1+2 is. If combined it contains more content than a regular chapter, then its good value for money

This isn't necessarily a good deal: A non-subscriber who still has Crowns from previous transactions will find them less useful now. In the past, I would have purchased the new chapter on Steam for 40€, then bought the dungeon DLCs with Crowns. Now I pay 50€ for a new "chapter" and two dungeon DLCs - one of which has already been out since a month - and am still stuck with the Crowns I already own and paid for. Maybe just an edge case, but it doesn't sit right with me, especially since it specifically hits people who actually want to buy everything and have been paying customers in the past (beyond just buying the game).

Isn't it cheaper if you were already paying twice for the dungeons anyway?

Ph1p · April 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

T3vvy wrote: »

Buys Chapters, doesn't buy ESO+: These players do get a benefit from this change, as they along with the years 'chapter' content (Solstice Parts 1 and 2), now get dungeons! Good for them. You could argue that they aren't actually getting any extra value for their money, as the Season Pass is £9 more expensive than the previous chapter was on release (Gold Road base edition was £33.99 on Steam, Season Pass is £42.99). However, this is impossible to quantify at the moment, as we don't know how large Solstice 1+2 is. If combined it contains more content than a regular chapter, then its good value for money

This isn't necessarily a good deal: A non-subscriber who still has Crowns from previous transactions will find them less useful now. In the past, I would have purchased the new chapter on Steam for 40€, then bought the dungeon DLCs with Crowns. Now I pay 50€ for a new "chapter" and two dungeon DLCs - one of which has already been out since a month - and am still stuck with the Crowns I already own and paid for. Maybe just an edge case, but it doesn't sit right with me, especially since it specifically hits people who actually want to buy everything and have been paying customers in the past (beyond just buying the game).

Isn't it cheaper if you were already paying twice for the dungeons anyway?

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

kargen27 · April 11

I'm in wait and see mode. Not in purchasing this season pass, I've already done that. We were told this year would be a transition year from chapters to season passes so we are not seeing what the end product will be going forward.

If you get ESO+ and the season pass the game is still a bargain compared to most other forms of entertainment if you play at least three hours a month.