DaisyRay wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

You see more Wardens in comp groups but more Sorcs outside that, and comp groups still want Sorcs for Negate. Warden being a melee class is inherently more skill and risk even for sweatlords, who tend to play Sorc in BGs because it will consistently give them a better KDA while demanding less sweat.

Once upon a time, before CP, we had "soft caps" to limit extreme minmaxing of one stat, cutting gains to a fraction after a certain threshhold. It worked pretty well. They were deleted for the sake of the CP system promising infinite progression (lol). Single stat minmaxing is part of what ends up making MagSorc so overpowered, since most other stats become irrelevant, you build and play as if they don't even exist, literally a degenerate version of the game.

My point in mentioning the warden meta was that I do not see people complaining that we should nerf wardens or the mechanical set. Even though I've seen groups of five plus wipe to just one or two wardens. I know they are usually in larger comp groups, but they are also solo or just with another warden. I even have a warden that I tested it out on and was able to knock a few people down with my ult, I just prefer my sorc for my dps.

Sweatlords will always find a way to push the limit on everything, nerfs or not. I personally don't mind it because it's a pvp game, sometimes you die to players who better, more zergy, or more sweaty. It happens. I'm not about to rage quit like some of the other people on this forum (not you) because a warden killed me with a 30k ult. Maybe it's just because I haven't been playing as long as others, so I don't know what the game was like before all of this and the proc sets.

I will agree that stat minmaxing helps sorcs, but I don't see it as a problem. I see it as bringing sorcs on the same level as every other class like dks for example. Those who are op on sorc will also be op on warden, nb, dk, etc. While I admit I'm not that coordinated, I don't think I'm bad. So I don't think sorc will suddenly make a bad player become an op player. If another player is struggling to fight someone on a sorc, chances are they will struggle to fight that same person on any other class too.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Im not surprised at all that youre sorc main, cos only sorcs are defending sorc class here, surprisingly hah. Im sure you love it, cos sorc now is just OP **** that broke whole games PVP balance between classes, as well as it made close range and long range equal in DMG for them, which is just crazy ****** that should not exist in ANY MMORPG EVER. This is exactly the problem which is made by MOST game developers, listening to community too much, cos always the biggest addicted noobs wants to have as much advantage as possible, and such ppl are ALWAYS the loudest, so they get what they want sonner or later. And thanks to streak is sorc exactly every noobs pick.
Sorc is stronger as RANGE DD as NB as MELEE DD while also having streak which is prividing sorcs with best positioning in the game, and allowing them to just leave the combat if it goes bad, Buffing such class is like dropping a **** on the rest of the community.

Clearly you're passionate about this and it has triggered you. I'm sorry you had such an awful experience with sorcs and that they hurt your feelings, but read what I wrote above. It's not the class, it's the people using the class. You would have still died to those same people on any other class. Everything you've described I've seen people do on just about every other class in this game.

Especially the streak. While I agree that sorc is the only ones that has a stun (I think), there are other skills that work either like or similar to streak. I'll list a few below. I would be fine with the streak not having the stun because as I stated, I mostly use it to avoid being zerged down by like ten people. I've never used streak to duck a 1v1 and I never will.

Other Skills Similar to Streak:
1. Mist form
2. Fleet-Footed Gate
3. Shadow Image
4. Undo

There are probably more that I don't know about, but clearly there are options for other classes to get away and those are just the ones that moves your character. There are also skills like the warden wings and path of darkness from nbs that allow people to speed up to avoid death, damage, or just to be faster than their opponent. None of these are bad and those who are skilled at fighting will be able to utilize them better than most. Because it has everything to do with the player and not the class.

This is part of why I don't encourage a lot of new people to use build videos because a class and build will only work if that person using it has the skill or knowledge to use it. So those sorcs who killed you were just better than you and that's not a slight to you. They are for sure better than me too and I'm also a sorc. There is always someone better and you will always die at some point in pvp. I don't think it's so bad that I would completely quit pvp, but we are different people who aren't on the same page. So I'll just agree to disagree.

Afterip wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

Sorc's upgrade made a weak player average and a strong player invincible.
Right now a lot of gankers in IC are Sorcs, even NB are not so common.

I never said I was weak, I said I wasn't the most coordinated. Meaning, I am better at ranged fighting than any other fighting. I also have a ranged nb ganker that I've used during mym and made stonks of telvar and ap. A sorc class will only be good if that player knows how to use it. Same as any other class. Also, if you want to take the heal off shield that's fine, but you should make our other heals better. I mainly use dark conversion for my heal and it really bothers me when someone can bash me and stop my heal. That shouldn't be a thing.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Ah jesus, here we go again ... You think i died cos sorcs ive been fighting, or ive seen fighting so many times ruining this games pvp are just better than me/anyone else around at the time ? While you aslo confessed youre just a newbie to pvp, interesting. But not that much, since you also confessed youre sorc main, it speaks for itself.
Probably not even 10% of those noobs ever killed me with sorcs, would kill me with any other class. Permanent running/dodging/streaking/shielding healing and their range DMG/other source dmg like pets/dots while also stunning me every few seconds which not just stuns, it also SUCKS LOADS of stam for breakfree is what is killing me, no matter what **** is playing that class. Have nothing to do with gameplay of mine or any other person, sorcs MUST be nerfed, cos they are way too OP and annoying now.
Also youre saying nonse about wardens beeing OP omg. While wardens just sucks, AS I ALREADY SAID, THEY ARE OP COS OF FEW IN-GAME SETS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR CLASS.

Ive literally never ever had any problem with ANY other class in the game, with sorcs as only exception, cos its most unbalanced **** class made for complet **** so they can play. And it definitely needs to be changed.

This skills comparison to streak, im almost crying seening this kind of nonsense mentioned here AGAIN. This comparison is like comparing a wheelchair with a train with some t*rd in the middle, im not even gonna respond to this nonsense.

By what/how youre responding, i guess youre someone who perfectly suits into that first category Afterip mentioned.

DaisyRay wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

Ah jesus, here we go again ... You think i died cos sorcs ive been fighting, or ive seen fighting so many times ruining this games pvp are just better than me/anyone else around at the time ? While you aslo confessed youre just a newbie to pvp, interesting. But not that much, since you also confessed youre sorc main, it speaks for itself.
Probably not even 10% of those noobs ever killed me with sorcs, would kill me with any other class. Permanent running/dodging/streaking/shielding healing and their range DMG/other source dmg like pets/dots while also stunning me every few seconds which not just stuns, it also SUCKS LOADS of stam for breakfree is what is killing me, no matter what **** is playing that class. Have nothing to do with gameplay of mine or any other person, sorcs MUST be nerfed, cos they are way too OP and annoying now.
Also youre saying nonse about wardens beeing OP omg. While wardens just sucks, AS I ALREADY SAID, THEY ARE OP COS OF FEW IN-GAME SETS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR CLASS.

Ive literally never ever had any problem with ANY other class in the game, with sorcs as only exception, cos its most unbalanced **** class made for complet **** so they can play. And it definitely needs to be changed.

This skills comparison to streak, im almost crying seening this kind of nonsense mentioned here AGAIN. This comparison is like comparing a wheelchair with a train with some t*rd in the middle, im not even gonna respond to this nonsense.

By what/how youre responding, i guess youre someone who perfectly suits into that first category Afterip mentioned.

1. The fact that you think that it's not a possibility that they were just better than you says a lot about you as a pvper. Do you also hate whisper nbs that they're cheating when you die to them? I don't know why you took that as such an insult, I said they were better than me too. There is nothing wrong with someone being better than you and there is no shame in dying. People make it out to be so bad to lose a fight in a pvp game when it's really not that serious, friend. 1vxs are really good players and I admire people who can take on multiple opponents and win. Maybe you all should not have been trying to zerg down one sorc thinking it was an easy target. o.o

2. I was main sorc in pve way before I even stepped into pvp. I've always liked magic fighters in games, so that's what made me choose sorc. I've never played any mmorpg before eso, so I had no real knowledge on what any of the classes would be. I just like witches and magic.

3. Every class has a stun though or something that makes the other person need to break free. I mentioned the DK one in my last post. However, it's not their fault if I run out of stam. Something I've learned and still trying to perfect is resource management. Especially since my dark conversion pulls from my stam. When fighting a DK I have to ensure I only heal when I need to so that I have stam to breakfree. So if you run out of resources, you should change something up on your build or the way you play.

4. My point about the wardens was that op sweatlords found a way to make wardens annoying in fights as they do with every class. That it does not matter how many nerfs you cry for, they will always find a way to push the limit of any class they are playing. Which is kind of impressive to me, I also admire people who take time to create new ways to do massive damage in the game. It sucks when you're the one getting hit with it sure, but it's just a game.

5. We clearly won't agree so again, agree to disagree.

DaisyRay wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

My point in mentioning the warden meta was that I do not see people complaining that we should nerf wardens or the mechanical set.

Any melee brawler is inherently harder to pilot than a full ranged DD that threatens from safety, so there are fewer Warden DDs around. Their combo is nigh uncounterable up close, but it's pretty easy to see it coming and avoid it. Meanwhile, even one mid Sorc blasting at you from max range (off screen too) is a constant threat that can't be ignored.

That's a fair and accurate point, yeah.

Wallar333 wrote: »

There are surely better sorc players than me, this discussion is about something completely different than youre mentioning. Its not about getting killed by someone cos hes better, its about getting killed by someone cos hes playing some broken **** that needs to be changed/balanced. ive never had a problem dying in any game, if someone kills me cos as you said, hes better or hes more lucky, thats the point of any pvp gameplay. This discussion is about bad mechanics forced by part of community, bad mechanics that needs to be balanced so the rest of the community can play pvp and have some fun finally.

That's the thing though, sorc isn't broken. The only thing that I'll ever agree on is that shield doesn't need a heal and that they should instead fix the dark conversion heal. Also streak doesn't need to stun people. Other than that, everything else that a sorc has is fine. Every class has unique skills that might seem broken just because some players are really good at playing that class or the game in general. I've doing pretty okay with defense on this test camp even without the heal on my shield.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Funny youre mentioning rss management while youre playing sorc, which is class with best sustain in the game, and if you have sustain problem on it, youre definitely doing something wrong.

You're the one who spoke about dying because you ran out of stam, I was giving suggestions because it has happened to me. I'm probably one of the few sorcs who does not have wretched on their build, so I have to make up for it in other ways and learn to manage my resources in 1v1s.

I'll end with me standing on that there is nothing wrong with streak and it shouldn't be changed, but I will say the stun could be taken off since we do have two to three other skills that can halt people in their movement. Also I agree that our shield doesn't need a heal, but if removed we need to buff our other heal.

Tcholl wrote: »

Very rich, another sorc defending the current state of the class. It is certainly not a coincidence. Also, they write the bigger posts on the thread and accuse others of being passionate about the subject.

I wonder why we do not see ANY other class mains defending sorcs at the moment.

<.< I haven't read through all of the posts but I have seen two people who aren't sorcs disagreeing with some of the stuff here. Also, I'm just matching energy. They gave a very lengthy post about their opinion and I felt it was only polite to take time out and reply with my own thoughts. Bless your heart though.

Wallar333 wrote: »

I guess you finally got the point. All i said about nerfing sorcs were literally two things, taking stun from streak, and removing/changing ward for something what wont be destroying whole games PVP. I wouldnt change ANYTHING ELSE about sorc class, im not crying here to GUT SORC CLASS, as someone accused me of, i want BALANCE, which means a want sorcs to be equal, not gutted.
So maybe finally a sorc understands whats going on here. The rest of comparisons, passives etc. was just nonsense started by sorc mains whos been defending their broken class, cos yes, sorc class IS broken now. All those other parts were literally not constructive nonsense which i didnt started.

Streaks stun, and removing/changing ward are ONLY things im standing for !

DaisyRay wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

I guess you finally got the point. All i said about nerfing sorcs were literally two things, taking stun from streak, and removing/changing ward for something what wont be destroying whole games PVP. I wouldnt change ANYTHING ELSE about sorc class, im not crying here to GUT SORC CLASS, as someone accused me of, i want BALANCE, which means a want sorcs to be equal, not gutted.
So maybe finally a sorc understands whats going on here. The rest of comparisons, passives etc. was just nonsense started by sorc mains whos been defending their broken class, cos yes, sorc class IS broken now. All those other parts were literally not constructive nonsense which i didnt started.

Streaks stun, and removing/changing ward are ONLY things im standing for !

That was always my point, I've stated my opinion on the shield healing in previous posts like this. I will take responsibility for miscommunication since I was too lazy to read the entirety of your initial post. I mostly went off of your replies to others and some of the replies to you.

I saw some people complaining about max mag and trying to put a cooldown on streak. As I mentioned, my primary heal is dark conversion, but the heal on shield helps because my dark conversion is not an instant heal and it sometimes gets bashed. If they buff dark conversion to be instant like all the other heals in game, I would be fine getting rid of the heal on the shield. I was using the shield way before there was even a heal added on to it and I'm using it now in the new test camp without it.

The stun on streak is useful to me for zergs, I don't really use it in my 1v1 combo. So I really don't care if they remove it or not, but I don't want a cooldown on my streak. That's just silly because as I've stated previously, there are plenty skills similar or like streak that can aid in catching people, avoiding people, or being faster than your opponent. Just as there are gap closure skills that will allow you to catch or stun a sorc.

Anywho, I hope if they touch sorc they do it mindfully and not just nerf it into oblivion. I'm not that informed on every past nerf, but from what I am told and have seen, zos rarely gives us exactly what we ask for. The nerf and buffs are always extreme and I would hate to have to main a new class because dark elf sorc is the bestest.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

My point in mentioning the warden meta was that I do not see people complaining that we should nerf wardens or the mechanical set.

Any melee brawler is inherently harder to pilot than a full ranged DD that threatens from safety, so there are fewer Warden DDs around. Their combo is nigh uncounterable up close, but it's pretty easy to see it coming and avoid it. Meanwhile, even one mid Sorc blasting at you from max range (off screen too) is a constant threat that can't be ignored.

That's a fair and accurate point, yeah.

Wallar333 wrote: »

There are surely better sorc players than me, this discussion is about something completely different than youre mentioning. Its not about getting killed by someone cos hes better, its about getting killed by someone cos hes playing some broken **** that needs to be changed/balanced. ive never had a problem dying in any game, if someone kills me cos as you said, hes better or hes more lucky, thats the point of any pvp gameplay. This discussion is about bad mechanics forced by part of community, bad mechanics that needs to be balanced so the rest of the community can play pvp and have some fun finally.

That's the thing though, sorc isn't broken. The only thing that I'll ever agree on is that shield doesn't need a heal and that they should instead fix the dark conversion heal. Also streak doesn't need to stun people. Other than that, everything else that a sorc has is fine. Every class has unique skills that might seem broken just because some players are really good at playing that class or the game in general. I've doing pretty okay with defense on this test camp even without the heal on my shield.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Funny youre mentioning rss management while youre playing sorc, which is class with best sustain in the game, and if you have sustain problem on it, youre definitely doing something wrong.

You're the one who spoke about dying because you ran out of stam, I was giving suggestions because it has happened to me. I'm probably one of the few sorcs who does not have wretched on their build, so I have to make up for it in other ways and learn to manage my resources in 1v1s.

I'll end with me standing on that there is nothing wrong with streak and it shouldn't be changed, but I will say the stun could be taken off since we do have two to three other skills that can halt people in their movement. Also I agree that our shield doesn't need a heal, but if removed we need to buff our other heal.

Tcholl wrote: »

Very rich, another sorc defending the current state of the class. It is certainly not a coincidence. Also, they write the bigger posts on the thread and accuse others of being passionate about the subject.

I wonder why we do not see ANY other class mains defending sorcs at the moment.

<.< I haven't read through all of the posts but I have seen two people who aren't sorcs disagreeing with some of the stuff here. Also, I'm just matching energy. They gave a very lengthy post about their opinion and I felt it was only polite to take time out and reply with my own thoughts. Bless your heart though.

I guess you finally got the point. All i said about nerfing sorcs were literally two things, taking stun from streak, and removing/changing ward for something what wont be destroying whole games PVP. I wouldnt change ANYTHING ELSE about sorc class!

Hmm.

To mention magsorcs crazy sustain with their skills, while using mag for infinite shields while dodging infinitely with stamina.

Since magsorcs obviously using staffs they are using elemental susceptibility skill from destro skill line, which is FREE of cost, while also having normal attack buffs, so they can save incredible amount of rss just using normal attacks and elem. sus. from far away.

Sorc with all his dmg and sustain

RSS sustain, with tri stat potions and right build makes sorcs literally unkillable,

Haunting curse - this annoying noob spell dont even need to be described, especially when it stays on you even after death.

Too many undodgable spells and other source DMG.

they are using stam only for dodges/sprint/vigor usually, AND MAGICKA IS REGENERATING WHILE DODGING/SPRINTING,

i mind sorcs crazy resists/heals

just incredible **** atop of milions of other source dmg, and stamina keeping for rolldodges between streaks, incredible, IDK what ZOS been thinking making this class, [snip]

having A LOT of another undodgable dmg

sorc high RANGE dmg/dots a lot of undodgable DMG and other source dmg

I can only guess how much other complaints were removed because all of your posts have edits from ZOS because of baiting, snips, and profanity bypass.

That's just the first couple of pages, but you clearly have a lot more issues with sorcs and it's dishonest to say "All i said about nerfing sorcs were literally two things, taking stun from streak, and removing/changing." No, you've said lot more than that.

At some point, you ask what I think is an important question:

this state of pvp ? How could ZOS allow THIS to happen, and you guys says its happening for a few years now ?

There are a lot of factors here, not least that none of the devs have much experience with competitive PvP as it's played on their own game. So they rely on us, the community, to communicate to them the issues in PvP.

They too often get ranting posts of the sort provided in this thread, which claims to know the game inside and out. When the noise becomes so loud, they then feel the need to act in a heavy-handed manner, which results in either completely gutting something into uselessness (Necro) or adding in something ridiculously OP to counter the problem being complained about (Rush of Agony).

I don't doubt you are a good player, but your knowledge of the game and its history is not at the same level. For example, you claim

I dont remember sorc to be weak EVER, streak was always incredibly annoying OP spell, and sorcs always had verry good dmg, so i just dont understand what happend, but i guess those noob sorcs you also mentioned been crying a LOT on forums and they got what they wanted

This is both right and wrong. Wrong in that sorcerers were absolutely terrible at release once ZOS fixed the ultimate bug that allowed sorcs to cast the Bats ultimate while just having 4 ultimate. Sorcs were dubbed as "negate monkeys" because the Negate ultimate was the only competitive and desirable thing they brought in PvP. The class was so bad, we literally dropped the kill 20 sorcerer quest, because nobody rolled them, even though they had streak and a 20 second shield. They were also trash DPS for PvE, obviously trash at tanking, and couldn't heal by themselves because Templars were kings of resource return.

Sorcerers did not become good until the 1.6 changes, which removed the softcaps and allowed magicka stacking, and thus gave them both the defense and offensive they had previously lacked. Adding in champion points that specifically helped this class, such as the bastion passive, also contributed.

It is true that from update 6 to update 34, Sorcs were usually S tier, A at worst (the same was true for stamblades). But it is not true to say that the Hybridization changes ZOS introduced did not weaken this class, and by quite a bit at that. It absolutely did. They needed health to survive, and so struggled to get both that and the shield strength needed to be competitive. What a lot of sorcs wound up doing was running a high health, low magica build centered on Draugrkin. Reasonably effective, but at best B tier as any class could run Draugrkin. Such a setup did not even bother to use the very thing that made them so strong in 1.6 in the first place: stacking everything into magicka.

Now we get to the right portion of the sentence. People crying on the forums and causing an overreaction from ZOS. What ZOS did was change Ward such that it got stronger shield, scaled higher at a lower max health, and scale dynamically between either magicka or health. In essence, this change enabled sorcerers to do what they had done in 1.6: throw everything into maximum magicka for large defense and good offense. This was all that needed to be done.

But because the complaints were so loud and incoherent ZOS overreacted and put a large heal on top of Ward, thus making them more powerful than at any previous point in the game.

My second most playtime is sorcerer and as soon as this patched dropped, I was shocked - shocked - that by using Hardened Ward, already strong now, I was also getting a burst heal that rivaled what my Templar was getting through Breath of Life.

Broken. And correctly pointed out on day 1 by a sorc main (Static).

So now we are at this inflexion point where once again something is too strong and needs adjustment. And once again ZOS is being flooded with ranting posts complaining about everything regarding sorcerers by self-proclaimed experts which probably means we are going to repeat the past 11 years of ZOS history with a heavy handed nerf that makes the game worse.

The history of the game tells us that even with streak, it was possible for sorcs to be so terrible that it wasn't possible to fulfill a kill 20 quest. So nerfing that ability is just a kneejerk reaction that is not necessary and ultimately make the game less interesting and less fun to play (unless of course, one is an inveterate hater of sorcs who enjoy schadenfreude of others being stuck playing a trash class).

It seems pretty clear that after ten plus years that the source of Sorcerer's effectiveness comes from it's ability to get away with stacking everything into maximum magicka. That is what needs to be looked at. And only that. I am loath to nerf any offensive given the game's current strong bias to heals/defense, so what I would do is a adjust how much defense a sorc can get by putting everything into magicka. The burst heal was a mistake from the beginning. It needs to go. Pay attention to the PTS and see if that was too much of a nerf. If so, turn the heal into a HoT.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

1. REMOVING STUN FROM STREAK
2. CHANGING WARD TO SCALE WITH HEALTH ONLY, AND TAKING HEALS FROM ITS MORPH.

Thats all, and problem solved, sorc will be still a verry strong class in hands of an actually good players, and if noobs starts dying and crying on forum, so what ? pvp is supposed to be challenging, and players should be equal as much as possible. BALANCE is only way to keep ANY GAMES PVP alive.

If you think i ask for too much, well im not taking your opinion, but well never agree on this, no matter games history, or who knows that class better. I can see state of this games pvp, i dont need to know 10 years of games history to see in how much deep **** this games pvp is now, and yes, mostly thanks to sorcs.

If you are going to tell me with a straight face that sorcerer would be a very strong class by doing that, then that's telling me you are only familiar with the class from an opponent's point of view (which is inherently biased).

I do respect your honestly in admitting you hate the class. Clearly you do if you think turning Ward into a worse Sun Shield and telling them to add another skill onto their crowded bar for a stun would nevertheless keep them a very strong class. That would objectively make them worse than they were after U35 changes, when they were mid tier. This is precisely why history can be valuable in our assessments.

I do agree with you that the current state of PvP is terrible. But, I can only shrug my head at the idea that we don;t need to learn from history as to how to make it better or improve it. Because, why bother studying or learning from history? It must be fun to keep repeating the same mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocgNXxnLVg

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

1. REMOVING STUN FROM STREAK
2. CHANGING WARD TO SCALE WITH HEALTH ONLY, AND TAKING HEALS FROM ITS MORPH.

Thats all, and problem solved, sorc will be still a verry strong class in hands of an actually good players, and if noobs starts dying and crying on forum, so what ? pvp is supposed to be challenging, and players should be equal as much as possible. BALANCE is only way to keep ANY GAMES PVP alive.

If you think i ask for too much, well im not taking your opinion, but well never agree on this, no matter games history, or who knows that class better. I can see state of this games pvp, i dont need to know 10 years of games history to see in how much deep **** this games pvp is now, and yes, mostly thanks to sorcs.

If you are going to tell me with a straight face that sorcerer would be a very strong class by doing that, then that's telling me you are only familiar with the class from an opponent's point of view (which is inherently biased).

I do respect your honestly in admitting you hate the class. Clearly you do if you think turning Ward into a worse Sun Shield and telling them to add another skill onto their crowded bar for a stun would nevertheless keep them a very strong class. That would objectively make them worse than they were after U35 changes, when they were mid tier. This is precisely why history can be valuable in our assessments.

I do agree with you that the current state of PvP is terrible. But, I can only shrug my head at the idea that we don;t need to learn from history as to how to make it better or improve it. Because, why bother studying or learning from history? It must be fun to keep repeating the same mistakes.

You are absolutely wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocgNXxnLVg

This sorc is not using streak, only ward. He ABSOLUTELY dominates PvP. So YES, I'm 10000000% positive, that even without streak AND nerfed ward sorc will still be EXTREMELY strong.

I don't understand what do you guys argue here - everyone can see that 80% of PvP players are sorcerers, ppl do it for a reason.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Incredible argument AGAIN Youre first person here who is comparing charge to streak tho,and THIS deserves an award really, cos you made my jaw drop to the floor now haha. Bro, charge NEEDS A TARGET to be used, its one way ticket spell, which also requires exact weapon to be used. While streak can get you ANYWHERE and ANYTIME, charge wont CC anyone, while streak stuns ppl hit, and LOL GUESS WHAT, streak even does more dmg than charge ... Bro i bet that even jesus is standing from the grave now, seeing this comparison muaha.

moo_2021 wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

Incredible argument AGAIN Youre first person here who is comparing charge to streak tho,and THIS deserves an award really, cos you made my jaw drop to the floor now haha. Bro, charge NEEDS A TARGET to be used, its one way ticket spell, which also requires exact weapon to be used. While streak can get you ANYWHERE and ANYTIME, charge wont CC anyone, while streak stuns ppl hit, and LOL GUESS WHAT, streak even does more dmg than charge ... Bro i bet that even jesus is standing from the grave now, seeing this comparison muaha.

Shield charge stuns and gives you a big health scaled shield.

Toppling charge stuns and gives you major protection

Dk charge snares amd gives you speed buff


They need a target and that's why you can't miss. I was suggesting to catch them, not to run away. If you want the latter, mist form is available to all classes.