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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Should ball groups violate TOS?
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Ruschell✭✭✭This ''problem'' with ball group is easy to solve, just remove the healing stack, remove the rush agony set which is a buggy set (even when blocking you are pulled, even through the wall, and even if you are outside its area) the healing stack is a problem in PVP, if you remove this all ballgroups would play with more caution and would not be immortal!4 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are literally tools built in to the game to detect stealthed players. But that's not what this forum topic is about.
Both of you are approaching the topic in the form of a battle not the war, how to solve the ball group issue.I agree but threads like this often take tangents that do not help the discussion.
Ball groups are not the problem, ball groups are a symptom.
The crux of the issue is overall balance in PVP. Stealth 1 shot fall into this category, bombers fall into this category, ball groups fall into this category, players that get off 7 abilities in 2 seconds (and I dont mean procs) fall into this category.
Simply, overall PVP needs a better balanced approach than the live game showcases.
To that end, any disucssion in this thread that illustrates the myriad of underlying issues helps to narrow down the problems that need to be solved or at the minimum looked into with a greater degree of fidelity.
"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »There are literally tools built in to the game to detect stealthed players. But that's not what this forum topic is about.
Both of you are approaching the topic in the form of a battle not the war, how to solve the ball group issue.I agree but threads like this often take tangents that do not help the discussion.
Ball groups are not the problem, ball groups are a symptom.
The crux of the issue is overall balance in PVP. Stealth 1 shot fall into this category, bombers fall into this category, ball groups fall into this category, players that get off 7 abilities in 2 seconds (and I dont mean procs) fall into this category.
Simply, overall PVP needs a better balanced approach than the live game showcases.
To that end, any disucssion in this thread that illustrates the myriad of underlying issues helps to narrow down the problems that need to be solved or at the minimum looked into with a greater degree of fidelity.
I have no idea where this is coming from as I have never said ball groups were a problem neither do I see this forum thread as a battle or a war. I also fail to see how stealth 1-shots are a ball group issue which is what this thread is about.
Heck, anyone who read my posts here, and similar threads, would realize I run with what people call a ball group even though we usually number between 4 to 6 players. Since we are organized, on comms, and play as a group, and do not stack heals, we are effective against equal and larger numbers. Do we lose sometimes? Yes as we are not gods but groups of pugs and more casual groups are not much of a challenge since they are not well organized.
To that end, making this thread about anything someone wishes to complain about takes focus away from an issue and turns the thread into a hot mess that will lead ZeniMax to move on because it is a mess of comments. It is best to stay focused.
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Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are literally tools built in to the game to detect stealthed players. But that's not what this forum topic is about.I agree but threads like this often take tangents that do not help the discussion.I have no idea where this is coming from as I have never said ball groups were a problem neither do I see this forum thread as a battle or a war.
The battle/war is a figure of speech. It means you can put a bandaid on the problem where the problem will be a problem in the future again, or you can fix the problem where it will not be a problem in the future again.
I discussed how stealth and 1 shots are an issue in pvp, you and the person you replied to asserted that has no relevance in this discussion, I explained why it did because anyting done to solve the ball group issue (as many have said it is an issue) would be a bandaid on the problem, not a solution. Ero you are fighting the battle not the war.
I explained that in the post you replied to.I also fail to see how stealth 1-shots are a ball group issue which is what this thread is about.
1. Discussions about 1 shot combos from stealth classes is not "complaining", its showcasing that there is a real issue with balance in PVP that creates an atmosphere that is not fun to play in. WOW had a rule that no class should have a hard counter. The existence of stealth 1 shot builds/bombers hard counter many builds which makes it completely unfun for the recipient as they do not even get to engage in combat. Its literally allowing god mode over another players agency. This is not a complain, this is a very real issue with the games design and zenimax should be made aware of it.To that end, making this thread about anything someone wishes to complain about takes focus away from an issue and turns the thread into a hot mess that will lead ZeniMax to move on because it is a mess of comments. It is best to stay focused.
2. Showcasing that issues in PVP run far beyond just "ball groups" (by illustating how stealth bombers and 1 shot negatively affect the playfield), gives zenimax a greater insight into the issues that they will face. It will be less expensive on their end and result in a greater, more positive outcome if the core of these issues is attacked (fighting the war) vs putting a bandaid on a singular event like ball groups."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭This ''problem'' with ball group is easy to solve, just remove the healing stack, remove the rush agony set which is a buggy set (even when blocking you are pulled, even through the wall, and even if you are outside its area) the healing stack is a problem in PVP, if you remove this all ballgroups would play with more caution and would not be immortal!
I wonder how many times ZOS reps have to see this posted before they at least comment on the issue? This is what's go me thinking us PvP mains might not have as much a future as we hope for in ESO.3 -
ercknn✭✭✭Remove cross healing in PvP
Remove RoA, dark convergence and plague break
Remove vicious death
Make AoE skills blockable (besides siege) in PvP
Congratulation's now all the “ball groups” have to act as a grouped small scale or 1vX group
I think this raises the skill ceiling many are looking for.
Players say comped ball groups require high effort, high skill, and strategy. I say the ladder offers more so and contributes to more overall fun between player interaction in PvP.
ZOS will apparently be experimenting with this on the new PvP pre templated class/skill and set campaign.
I’m honestly looking forward to it.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This ''problem'' with ball group is easy to solve, just remove the healing stack, remove the rush agony set which is a buggy set (even when blocking you are pulled, even through the wall, and even if you are outside its area) the healing stack is a problem in PVP, if you remove this all ballgroups would play with more caution and would not be immortal!
I wonder how many times ZOS reps have to see this posted before they at least comment on the issue? This is what's go me thinking us PvP mains might not have as much a future as we hope for in ESO.
Don't hold your breath. Been 11 years and counting.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »I have no idea where this is coming from as I have never said ball groups were a problem neither do I see this forum thread as a battle or a war.
The battle/war is a figure of speech. It means you can put a bandaid on the problem where the problem will be a problem in the future again, or you can fix the problem where it will not be a problem in the future again.
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To bring things back to the topic, though: do they/should they violate the ToS? Given that ZOS’s stance is “no,” I’m not sure how productive some of these tangents are.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 24, 2025 6:34PM0 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sans-culottes wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »I have no idea where this is coming from as I have never said ball groups were a problem neither do I see this forum thread as a battle or a war.
The battle/war is a figure of speech. It means you can put a bandaid on the problem where the problem will be a problem in the future again, or you can fix the problem where it will not be a problem in the future again.
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To bring things back to the topic, though: do they/should they violate the ToS? Given that ZOS’s stance is “no,” I’m not sure how productive some of these tangents are.
Making a change to ball groups alone is a bandaid fix on a larger problem and will most likely only take resources from the dev team that could be better spent fixing a larger issue regarding pvp...and in doing so, cover multiple bases, not just ball groups.
EDIT: I misread your post, edit to answer question.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 24, 2025 6:35PM"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes0 -
crappyjazz1964✭✭✭Remove cross healing in PvP
Remove RoA, dark convergence and plague break
Remove vicious death
Make AoE skills blockable (besides siege) in PvP
Congratulation's now all the “ball groups” have to act as a grouped small scale or 1vX group
I think this raises the skill ceiling many are looking for.
Players say comped ball groups require high effort, high skill, and strategy. I say the ladder offers more so and contributes to more overall fun between player interaction in PvP.
ZOS will apparently be experimenting with this on the new PvP pre templated class/skill and set campaign.
I’m honestly looking forward to it.
Also please shut down Cyrodiil at 10 pm EST. That's when I go to bed. TIA0 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sans-culottes wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »I have no idea where this is coming from as I have never said ball groups were a problem neither do I see this forum thread as a battle or a war.
The battle/war is a figure of speech. It means you can put a bandaid on the problem where the problem will be a problem in the future again, or you can fix the problem where it will not be a problem in the future again.
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
To bring things back to the topic, though: do they/should they violate the ToS? Given that ZOS’s stance is “no,” I’m not sure how productive some of these tangents are.
[edited to remove quote]
Good attempt here since threads of this length seem to get some tangents that in this case do not relate to ball groups.
I think looking at the core issue is required. That is, are ball groups strong because they are well organized like the small to medium size group I run with or is there something in the design of the game that is fundamentally the issue.
In other words, a well-organized group in itself is fine. It should be expected that a random group of people would be far less effective against a well-organized group that actually plays together. It should also be expected that a group of 12 casual players or ones that may be a guild but lack a knowledgeable leader/are not on comms should struggle against that well organized group. That well organized group will always have better odds of succeeding.
Then there is the suggestion that stacking hots is the real culprit (my group runs with dedicated healers) and some other things. If Zenimax has not looked into that before maybe it is worth a look. I know they did some testing a few years ago from a performance perspective but are not aware of what they actually tested.
This type of thing would be good to discuss.
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