Should ball groups violate TOS?

Asdara

ZOS has repeatedly stated that fair play and game balance are core principles of ESO. However, the continued presence of organized "ball groups" in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds represents a direct contradiction to these principles and may even violate the game's Terms of Service.

Ball groups exploit unintended interactions between skills, stacking healing, mitigation, and synergy effects in a way that eliminates meaningful counterplay. The result is a gameplay experience that discourages new players, frustrates small-scale PvPers, and leads to significant server performance degradation. In this regard, ball grouping is functionally identical to multiboxing, which ZOS has already classified as a bannable exploit.

Multiboxing is prohibited because it grants an unfair advantage by synchronizing multiple characters to act as a single, unbreakable force, overwhelming normal players through sheer coordination. Ball groups achieve the exact same result ,not through software, but through meticulously organized play that abuses AoE healing, mitigation, and synergy stacking to create an unstoppable, lag-inducing cluster of players. Just as multiboxing removes meaningful counterplay and damages server performance, so too does ball grouping.

ZOS has implemented multiple balance patches aimed at reducing the effectiveness of these groups, proving that they recognize the issue. Yet, the core mechanics enabling them persist. Given the repeated efforts to limit this playstyle, it is reasonable to argue that ball groups are, in essence, exploiting the game.

ESO’s Terms of Service prohibit the use of exploits or game mechanics in unintended ways that give an unfair advantage. If ZOS is serious about this policy, then organized ball grouping must be classified as a violation. Either ZOS needs to implement hard restrictions to eliminate the playstyle or take direct enforcement action against players and groups abusing these mechanics.

It’s time to demand a fairer, more competitive PvP experience that does not rely on server-breaking exploits.

ZOS, we need clear enforcement!! when will you act?!

JavaRen

So your position is that organized teamwork should be prohibited? Just looking for clarification.

sans-culottes

Asdara wrote: »

ZOS has repeatedly stated that fair play and game balance are core principles of ESO. However, the continued presence of organized "ball groups" in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds represents a direct contradiction to these principles and may even violate the game's Terms of Service.

Ball groups exploit unintended interactions between skills, stacking healing, mitigation, and synergy effects in a way that eliminates meaningful counterplay. The result is a gameplay experience that discourages new players, frustrates small-scale PvPers, and leads to significant server performance degradation. In this regard, ball grouping is functionally identical to multiboxing, which ZOS has already classified as a bannable exploit.

Multiboxing is prohibited because it grants an unfair advantage by synchronizing multiple characters to act as a single, unbreakable force, overwhelming normal players through sheer coordination. Ball groups achieve the exact same result ,not through software, but through meticulously organized play that abuses AoE healing, mitigation, and synergy stacking to create an unstoppable, lag-inducing cluster of players. Just as multiboxing removes meaningful counterplay and damages server performance, so too does ball grouping.

ZOS has implemented multiple balance patches aimed at reducing the effectiveness of these groups, proving that they recognize the issue. Yet, the core mechanics enabling them persist. Given the repeated efforts to limit this playstyle, it is reasonable to argue that ball groups are, in essence, exploiting the game.

ESO’s Terms of Service prohibit the use of exploits or game mechanics in unintended ways that give an unfair advantage. If ZOS is serious about this policy, then organized ball grouping must be classified as a violation. Either ZOS needs to implement hard restrictions to eliminate the playstyle or take direct enforcement action against players and groups abusing these mechanics.

It’s time to demand a fairer, more competitive PvP experience that does not rely on server-breaking exploits.

ZOS, we need clear enforcement!! when will you act?!

I don’t think coordinated groups are a ToS violation.

DragonRacer

JavaRen wrote: »

So your position is that organized teamwork should be prohibited? Just looking for clarification.

Guess the highly-coordinated and synergizing vet trial HM trifecta runners are the OP's next target? It's the same concept, right, just PvE rather than PvP?

valenwood_vegan

Yikes, do I have to cancel tomorrow's trial run? I mean there are 12 of us and we coordinate in voice, I don't wanna break any rules.

Just to clarify, I don't enjoy ball groups either, it's a big part of why I don't pvp much and I'll usually just log off and play something else if I run into them. But I don't think coordinated teamwork violates the ToS, sorry. These groups aren't using cheats or secret tools that are unavailable to others. Maybe the underlying mechanics that allow these groups to be so powerful in pvp should be addressed.

SaffronCitrusflower

JavaRen wrote: »

So your position is that organized teamwork should be prohibited? Just looking for clarification.

I read the OP's post as claiming that the insane heal and shield stacking in groups could be and probably should be considered an exploit of the inherent systems ZOS put in place for groups. This is fine for PvE situations, but it is killing PvP. Ball groups as they are today and for the last year plus are indestructible. There is no way to defend against them and thus far ZOS has refused to address the issue in any capacity (despite daily posts on this forum about the problem) beyond reducing group size to half what it should be for PvP guild raids.

Dack_Janiels

Your argument hinges on the idea that “ball grouping” is an exploit akin to multiboxing, but this comparison is fundamentally flawed. Multiboxing is a software-based automation that allows a single player to control multiple characters simultaneously, circumventing normal player limitations. Ball grouping, on the other hand, is just coordinated team play—the same kind of teamwork that exists in every MMO’s competitive PvP.

The idea that stacking healing, mitigation, and synergies is “unintended” is simply incorrect. ESO’s mechanics were designed to allow groups to synergize and support each other, and every player has access to these same tools. Just because some players organize more effectively doesn’t mean they’re cheating—it means they’re playing the game well.

You also claim that ball groups have “no meaningful counterplay,” which is objectively false. There are numerous strategies to counter them:
• Deny their sustain: Pressure them with high burst damage, coordinated negates, and defile effects.
• Exploit their movement: Ball groups rely on tight formations, making them vulnerable to slows, snares, and displacement abilities.
• Use siege weapons effectively: Oils, trebuchets, and cold fire ballistae shred ball groups if used properly.

ZOS has repeatedly adjusted game balance, but balance changes don’t mean something is an exploit—they mean the devs are fine-tuning the meta, as they do for every playstyle. If ball groups were truly “against the rules,” they’d be explicitly prohibited. But they aren’t, because they are just well-coordinated teams playing effectively within the game’s mechanics.

The real issue here isn’t fairness—it’s frustration. People don’t like fighting well-organized groups because they require more effort and coordination to beat. But that’s not an exploit, and it’s certainly not comparable to multiboxing. It’s just good PvP.

If you want ZOS to take action, maybe focus on actual exploits—like desync abuses or latency manipulation—rather than complaining about players who play the game better than you.

Renato90085

So if I play my necro tank solo queue BG for daily and met other 7 good group member, I am cheat?
But whyyyyyy

wazzz56

Is this satire?

SaffronCitrusflower

Dack_Janiels wrote: »

Your argument hinges on the idea that “ball grouping” is an exploit akin to multiboxing, but this comparison is fundamentally flawed. Multiboxing is a software-based automation that allows a single player to control multiple characters simultaneously, circumventing normal player limitations. Ball grouping, on the other hand, is just coordinated team play—the same kind of teamwork that exists in every MMO’s competitive PvP.

The idea that stacking healing, mitigation, and synergies is “unintended” is simply incorrect. ESO’s mechanics were designed to allow groups to synergize and support each other, and every player has access to these same tools. Just because some players organize more effectively doesn’t mean they’re cheating—it means they’re playing the game well.

You also claim that ball groups have “no meaningful counterplay,” which is objectively false. There are numerous strategies to counter them:
• Deny their sustain: Pressure them with high burst damage, coordinated negates, and defile effects.
• Exploit their movement: Ball groups rely on tight formations, making them vulnerable to slows, snares, and displacement abilities.
• Use siege weapons effectively: Oils, trebuchets, and cold fire ballistae shred ball groups if used properly.

ZOS has repeatedly adjusted game balance, but balance changes don’t mean something is an exploit—they mean the devs are fine-tuning the meta, as they do for every playstyle. If ball groups were truly “against the rules,” they’d be explicitly prohibited. But they aren’t, because they are just well-coordinated teams playing effectively within the game’s mechanics.

The real issue here isn’t fairness—it’s frustration. People don’t like fighting well-organized groups because they require more effort and coordination to beat. But that’s not an exploit, and it’s certainly not comparable to multiboxing. It’s just good PvP.

If you want ZOS to take action, maybe focus on actual exploits—like desync abuses or latency manipulation—rather than complaining about players who play the game better than you.

At present there is no meaningful counter to ball groups. That's just the way it is. The ONLY chance is a more experienced and organized ball group. But ball groups only very rarely fight each other. They focus on farming pugs and and trolling keeps.

Siege weapons do NOTHING to ball groups now days with all the heal and shield stacking. You can hit a ball group dead center with a cold fire ballista and do less than 1k damage to 2 players most of the time and the same mischaracterizations made about other possible counters are equally disingenuous. There is no counter to ball groups in Cyro now days other than a bigger, badder ball group.

ZOS_Kraken

Hello! We have changed the title of the post to more appropriately reflect the nature of the discussion.

Vaqual

The issue is coming mostly from deviations from their own formula. They started out with generic buffs/debuffs to avoid support power creep and then they kept adding unique buffs/debuffs from sets and abilities to offer more diversity for team support. Each unique or stackable buffs, heal or debuff will thereby help to scale a ball groups power. The obvious solution is to return to the more generic system, by reworking certain buffs/heals/debuffs to occupy a slot like "blessing", "stance" or "formation" and thereby limit the group power scaling to a lower level compared to the current state (limited only by group size and gear/ability slots).

Of course a coordinated group of players will and must be stronger than unorganized or solo players of equal caliber, anything else just doesn't make sense.

IncultaWolf

I just hope vengeance tests yield positive results, you won't see unkillable ball groups in that campaign as it stands right now.

I have no issue with large zerg vs zerg fights as when I'm playing solo I can pick off some players in the back of the group with enough burst damage, but you can't even touch ballgroups with how many shields and barriers they stack on top of the incoming 10k hps. I don't think it should violate TOS for what they're doing, but just know that you are ruining the experience and degrading the gameplay for many other players and nobody outside your ball has any respect for you

redlink1979

You just need to break up the group using sets and/or skills.
E.g.:
Skills - Negate
Sets: Snake in the Stars set.
5th bonus: "Applying a Major or Minor Debuff to an enemy applies Star Venom to them for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 12 seconds. Whenever an enemy with Star Venom is healed, they take 1170 Oblivion Damage, up to once every 0.1 seconds. An enemy can only be affected by one instance of Star Venom every 12 seconds"

Obs: You can't block/shield/mitigate Oblivion damage.

Can also use siege when in Cyro (meatbags, cold fire ballista, oil)

Artim_X

No, if no cheats are being used, then everthing is fair play. It is on ZOS to monitor player feedback, in-game numbers, and ideally play the game themselves to see if changes need to be made.

Soraka

For real?

crappyjazz1964

I know it's frustrating to fight them. So I joined one. There is so much work and coordination that goes into them, it's really quite beautiful.

acastanza_ESO

"Teamwork is cheating"

LadyGP

I’ve been running with a ball group for a while now, and I wanted to chime in on this discussion. I get where the frustration comes from—PvP can feel overwhelming sometimes—but I don’t think ball groups are violating the Terms of Service or ruining the game. Honestly, I see it as us playing within the tools ZOS gave us, and there are plenty of ways to take us on if you know where to look.

First off, the way we stack heals, mitigation, and synergies isn’t some glitch or exploit. It’s just group coordination, using mechanics that have been in ESO forever. AoE healing and buffs are designed to support teamwork—that’s why they exist. We’re not doing anything the game doesn’t allow; we’re just leaning hard into the systems and practicing a lot to make it work. It’s less about “unintended interactions” and more about understanding how skills can complement each other when you’ve got a tight crew.

I’ve seen folks say there’s no counterplay, but from my experience, that’s not really the case. There are solid options out there if you’re up for trying them. Stuff like Negate Magic can shut down our momentum, siege weapons can hit us hard when we’re clumped up, or even a small bomb group with good timing can break us apart. We’ve been wiped plenty of times by people who coordinate and focus their attacks—it’s not like we’re untouchable. It just takes a different approach than, say, fighting a solo player or a loose zerg. Also - have you tried not chasing/walking in a straight line to a choke point?

The multiboxing comparison comes up a lot, but I don’t think it fits. Multiboxing was about one person controlling a bunch of accounts with software, which gave an unfair edge. Ball groups are actual players working together, talking, and reacting in real time. It’s not automated or artificial—it’s just teamwork dialed up to eleven.

Speaking of patches, I get that some see those as proof ball groups are a problem. To me, it’s more like ZOS tweaking things to keep PvP fresh for everyone, not a sign they’re trying to ban us. They’ve adjusted mechanics over time, sure, but the core of what we do—group play—is still here, which tells me it’s part of their vision for ESO.

Server performance is a tough one, no doubt. Lag hits us all, and I feel it too when things get hectic. But big fights have always strained the servers, whether it’s us, a zerg, or a massive keep siege. I don’t think ball groups are the root cause—it’s more about how the game handles lots of players in one spot. There are lots of good things coming out from the lag thread here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658253/zos-massive-spike-in-ping-lag-in-recent-days-what-gives#latest

Look, I’m not saying ball groups are perfect or that PvP doesn’t need work. But calling for bans or hard restrictions feels like it misses the point. ESO’s PvP thrives on variety—solo players, small crews, zergs, and yes, ball groups too. If you’re struggling against us, I’d say give some of those counters a shot or team up with folks to try a new strategy. We’re not here to ruin anyone’s fun; we’re just playing the game we love in a way that clicks for us. Maybe ZOS could clarify their stance, but until then, I think there’s room for all of us in Cyrodiil.

sans-culottes

LadyGP wrote: »

I’ve been running with a ball group for a while now, and I wanted to chime in on this discussion. I get where the frustration comes from—PvP can feel overwhelming sometimes—but I don’t think ball groups are violating the Terms of Service or ruining the game. Honestly, I see it as us playing within the tools ZOS gave us, and there are plenty of ways to take us on if you know where to look.

First off, the way we stack heals, mitigation, and synergies isn’t some glitch or exploit. It’s just group coordination, using mechanics that have been in ESO forever. AoE healing and buffs are designed to support teamwork—that’s why they exist. We’re not doing anything the game doesn’t allow; we’re just leaning hard into the systems and practicing a lot to make it work. It’s less about “unintended interactions” and more about understanding how skills can complement each other when you’ve got a tight crew.

I’ve seen folks say there’s no counterplay, but from my experience, that’s not really the case. There are solid options out there if you’re up for trying them. Stuff like Negate Magic can shut down our momentum, siege weapons can hit us hard when we’re clumped up, or even a small bomb group with good timing can break us apart. We’ve been wiped plenty of times by people who coordinate and focus their attacks—it’s not like we’re untouchable. It just takes a different approach than, say, fighting a solo player or a loose zerg. Also - have you tried not chasing/walking in a straight line to a choke point?

The multiboxing comparison comes up a lot, but I don’t think it fits. Multiboxing was about one person controlling a bunch of accounts with software, which gave an unfair edge. Ball groups are actual players working together, talking, and reacting in real time. It’s not automated or artificial—it’s just teamwork dialed up to eleven.

Speaking of patches, I get that some see those as proof ball groups are a problem. To me, it’s more like ZOS tweaking things to keep PvP fresh for everyone, not a sign they’re trying to ban us. They’ve adjusted mechanics over time, sure, but the core of what we do—group play—is still here, which tells me it’s part of their vision for ESO.

Server performance is a tough one, no doubt. Lag hits us all, and I feel it too when things get hectic. But big fights have always strained the servers, whether it’s us, a zerg, or a massive keep siege. I don’t think ball groups are the root cause—it’s more about how the game handles lots of players in one spot. There are lots of good things coming out from the lag thread here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658253/zos-massive-spike-in-ping-lag-in-recent-days-what-gives#latest

Look, I’m not saying ball groups are perfect or that PvP doesn’t need work. But calling for bans or hard restrictions feels like it misses the point. ESO’s PvP thrives on variety—solo players, small crews, zergs, and yes, ball groups too. If you’re struggling against us, I’d say give some of those counters a shot or team up with folks to try a new strategy. We’re not here to ruin anyone’s fun; we’re just playing the game we love in a way that clicks for us. Maybe ZOS could clarify their stance, but until then, I think there’s room for all of us in Cyrodiil.

Good post. The multiboxing comparison is unfair. While these can be annoying for other players, they take coordination, etc. Having said that, it’d be nice to have some tools to counter ball groups more effectively.

peacenote

I disagree. Ball groups shouldn't and don't violate the TOS and are a valid, enjoyable way to play for many. They also can be countered. Yes, there may be some balance issues but we have balance issues everywhere. It's too big of a leap to TOS violation.

wilykcat

Yes

LadyGP

wilykcat wrote: »

Yes

Genuinely curious, why do you think ball groups are violating ToS?

sans-culottes

wilykcat wrote: »

Yes

Any reason you feel this is a ToS violation? I’m not sure how this would qualify.

spartaxoxo

No. People should not be punished for grouping together as allowed and using sets as they're designed. What kind of question is that?

valenwood_vegan

wilykcat wrote: »

Yes

So if I pvp'd with an uncoordinated group of randos, would that be against the ToS? What if a couple of us happened to have radiating regen on our backbars and we cross-healed each other? What if we got in voice and coordinated our attacks? What if we talked before going into pvp and picked classes and builds that compliment each other?

Just curious, when does it suddenly become a ToS violation? Are groups and teamwork allowed? As long as they're not that good at what they're doing?

Grizzbeorn

Ball groups are not a violation of TOS.

Veinblood1965

I do not agree. I do not play in a ball group but if someone practices until they are that coordinated then there is nothing stopping me from getting my guild together with a few negates in the group and some great dps which we do on occasion if a BG is just a being a pain. Only draw back is ball groups are just a here and there thing and by the time I get everyone to switch skills etc they are usually dead. More power to them IMO as there are counters to them if you know how. Solo, no. In a group yes.

Sluggy

As much as I generally dislike ballgroups in Cyrodiil I have to say this argument is totally in bad faith. There's nothing wrong with teaming up, coordinating efforts, and communicating to make the most effective use of that teamwork. That's not an exploit or unintended in any way.

If you want to argue that there are far too many sets that provide far too many bonuses for groups or that stacking of HoTs is too strong to allow for reasonable counter play then to such groups I'm all in on that stance but please don't pollute the argument with false equivalencies, paranoia, and conspiracies.

Pixiepumpkin

DragonRacer wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

So your position is that organized teamwork should be prohibited? Just looking for clarification.

Guess the highly-coordinated and synergizing vet trial HM trifecta runners are the OP's next target? It's the same concept, right, just PvE rather than PvP?

But in that context, pvp vs pve yes, its massively different.

"Winning" against NPC's is not exactly the same as "Winning" against other players by having a severe advantage over them.

spartaxoxo

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

So your position is that organized teamwork should be prohibited? Just looking for clarification.

Guess the highly-coordinated and synergizing vet trial HM trifecta runners are the OP's next target? It's the same concept, right, just PvE rather than PvP?

But in that context, pvp vs pve yes, its massively different.

"Winning" against NPC's is not exactly the same as "Winning" against other players by having a severe advantage over them.

In this particular context, which is whether or not coordination is an exploit, no it is not massively different. In fact, it is not different at all. They are both supported behavior by Zenimax and involve using the tools of the game as they are designed to be used.

Ball groups are not cheating. Full stop.