Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Ball groups do not fight fair. Or play the objectives. They are selfish players.

They like to farm lone or unco-ordinated groups of players.
They grab scrolls to just farm AP, not place & give points to their alliance; same with keeps - will get in (sometimes taking advantage of another alliance & their effort sieging) & not take the keep but farm AP.
As soon as the opposition shows they can deal with them, they cut and run, never standing to fight.

I am grateful we don’t have toxic ball groups on AD on PSEU - we play to win the campaign & have fun doing so.

Large organized groups, which seem to be what we call ball groups, do play the objectives. The group I play with, typically 4-6 players and sometimes as many as 8, captures and defends the keeps and resources. We do not always play with the horde since it is occasionally logical for a well-organized group to take another objective or location that needs defending.

In other words, sometimes we relieve the pressure on the location most players are trying to take or defend, which ultimately helps the horde.

We have also taken scrolls for the silly reason of bringing them back to a keep in our alliance, which makes our alliance stronger and other alliances weaker. That is not an AP farm but a logical and tactical mission.

And I find this cut and run statement interesting. Maybe that is when we leave the massive group of people and take another resource to harm the enemy or defend another location that is important to keep. That is hardly cut and run.

We are a competent group because we are very organized, have strong leadership, and are all on comms. This gives us a huge advantage over most groups of equal size and even larger.

You lure casuals and solos to your groups and stomp on them by flagging areas away from the horde. Sure, it makes your horde need to deal with less, but usually means there's less unorganized casual fodder to help pad kills for the casuals of your horde, so they do less PvP while you hoard these players mostly to yourself and ultimately result in less horde-fighting overall.

You pretty much play PvDoor and PvE against underequipped players until an equally coordinated group or the zerg comes to kill you because you screwed up their spawn-lines and can't get back into the fight quickly again all the while dunking on those boneheaded enough to try and help their faction unorganized.

Tactics or not, you're basically just making the PvP experience worse for the average PvP player. Good for your team, but help prevent wide-scale battles overall. In Real Life: amazing. In a game: annoying.

I respect the skill and coordination, but dear lord you're annoying whenever things get hectic and fun, it's like whenever there's a large battle going on there's some killjoys that seem to say "no, you don't get to spawn". Though, I suppose there is Battlegrounds to sate those that want constant fighting.

I also do love ESO's brilliant idea that the losing faction needs to lose harder with Keep/Scroll/Emperor factionwide stat bonuses. Let's mechanically punish failure ontop of the failure itself!

Seriously?

So, a skilled group that does well creates a worse experience for the "average PvP player." We do not complain when we lose a fight to an equal or larger group. We move on while figuring out how we could have succeeded against that group. As I explained to a guild in a different game, there is always someone better, which means there is always something to learn and room to improve.

That is PvP. Get used to it. Otherwise, there is PvE. Organize and rise to the challenge because we are not the problem!

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

@Amottica - are you PSEU?

I doubt it, as DC ballgroups there do NOT play the objectives.

They come in after the hard work of sieging is done & then run around on the inside not taking flags but farming AP. Yes, we do know how to deal with them now, but its very tedious & not fun.

They grab scrolls & then do the same, farming AP and not helping their side get any campaign points. And if we get too close to wiping them they run away & dump it in the water.

If I was DC I would be considering changing alliances as they troll everyone, including their own faction.

I play in a guild group (astoundingly unorganised, but fun) and yes, we can kill ballgroups but would prefer not to have to. The fights aren’t as fun. Just dull.

Stridig wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in here and echo a lot of what is being said here. Groups coordinating in PvP is not breaking any TOS. We are not going to punish players for working together in coordinated play. We fully recognize that players do have valid issues with coordinated groups pushes and some of that comes down to giving you more tools to disrupt a coordinated team. We'll have a bit more on this in the next PvP Q&A, but wanted to at least note for the general group here that coordinated play does not violate Terms of Service.

The problem is an average player can join a group and become nearly unkillable and do 2-3x the damage they would normally do solo. Basically you become Emperor by joining a 12 player group in Cyrodiil and arguably stronger.

Uhhh..... That's the point. Group play is literally the point. Also, coordinated group play is nowhere near as easy and full of no skill people as those who don't play in them say they are. Is stuff broken? Yes. Hopefully they can fix broken things and balance the game better. But I assure you, when they do, good players in coordinated groups will still win fights.

Stridig wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in here and echo a lot of what is being said here. Groups coordinating in PvP is not breaking any TOS. We are not going to punish players for working together in coordinated play. We fully recognize that players do have valid issues with coordinated groups pushes and some of that comes down to giving you more tools to disrupt a coordinated team. We'll have a bit more on this in the next PvP Q&A, but wanted to at least note for the general group here that coordinated play does not violate Terms of Service.

The problem is an average player can join a group and become nearly unkillable and do 2-3x the damage they would normally do solo. Basically you become Emperor by joining a 12 player group in Cyrodiil and arguably stronger.

Uhhh..... That's the point. Group play is literally the point. Also, coordinated group play is nowhere near as easy and full of no skill people as those who don't play in them say they are. Is stuff broken? Yes. Hopefully they can fix broken things and balance the game better. But I assure you, when they do, good players in coordinated groups will still win fights.

I've played all open world PvP MMOs. Most groups are not this powerful. ESO is a major outlier here.

Groups aren't even an issue until you start getting about 9+ players together. Then the exponential uplift really starts to happen. When you have 12 players then you have capacity to bring in sets like Grave Guardian that would normally never be used in PvP. (+4430 armor to entire group)

Groups in the 4-8 player size are mostly balanced I think. The healing is strong and they have coordinated burst damage but they are actually killable. It's the 9-12 player groups that are the issue because of the extra healing and set capacity.

Not suggesting any fixes, just pointing out the power difference in group size.

2 second doodle - blue good, red bad

I'm aware of all these things. I even mentioned in this thread that broken things need fixing and balance needs work. What my argument is, is all of these things are available to everyone. But the majority of players refuse to group with other players. They just want to zerg surf and leech AP. Then they get mad because they aren't a solo god and get salty. It's dumb. But then again, we are in the era of participation trophies so whatever

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Ball groups do not fight fair. Or play the objectives. They are selfish players.

They like to farm lone or unco-ordinated groups of players.
They grab scrolls to just farm AP, not place & give points to their alliance; same with keeps - will get in (sometimes taking advantage of another alliance & their effort sieging) & not take the keep but farm AP.
As soon as the opposition shows they can deal with them, they cut and run, never standing to fight.

I am grateful we don’t have toxic ball groups on AD on PSEU - we play to win the campaign & have fun doing so.

Large organized groups, which seem to be what we call ball groups, do play the objectives. The group I play with, typically 4-6 players and sometimes as many as 8, captures and defends the keeps and resources. We do not always play with the horde since it is occasionally logical for a well-organized group to take another objective or location that needs defending.

In other words, sometimes we relieve the pressure on the location most players are trying to take or defend, which ultimately helps the horde.

We have also taken scrolls for the silly reason of bringing them back to a keep in our alliance, which makes our alliance stronger and other alliances weaker. That is not an AP farm but a logical and tactical mission.

And I find this cut and run statement interesting. Maybe that is when we leave the massive group of people and take another resource to harm the enemy or defend another location that is important to keep. That is hardly cut and run.

We are a competent group because we are very organized, have strong leadership, and are all on comms. This gives us a huge advantage over most groups of equal size and even larger.

You lure casuals and solos to your groups and stomp on them by flagging areas away from the horde. Sure, it makes your horde need to deal with less, but usually means there's less unorganized casual fodder to help pad kills for the casuals of your horde, so they do less PvP while you hoard these players mostly to yourself and ultimately result in less horde-fighting overall.

You pretty much play PvDoor and PvE against underequipped players until an equally coordinated group or the zerg comes to kill you because you screwed up their spawn-lines and can't get back into the fight quickly again all the while dunking on those boneheaded enough to try and help their faction unorganized.

Tactics or not, you're basically just making the PvP experience worse for the average PvP player. Good for your team, but help prevent wide-scale battles overall. In Real Life: amazing. In a game: annoying.

I respect the skill and coordination, but dear lord you're annoying whenever things get hectic and fun, it's like whenever there's a large battle going on there's some killjoys that seem to say "no, you don't get to spawn". Though, I suppose there is Battlegrounds to sate those that want constant fighting.

I also do love ESO's brilliant idea that the losing faction needs to lose harder with Keep/Scroll/Emperor factionwide stat bonuses. Let's mechanically punish failure ontop of the failure itself!

Seriously?

So, a skilled group that does well creates a worse experience for the "average PvP player." We do not complain when we lose a fight to an equal or larger group. We move on while figuring out how we could have succeeded against that group. As I explained to a guild in a different game, there is always someone better, which means there is always something to learn and room to improve.

That is PvP. Get used to it. Otherwise, there is PvE. Organize and rise to the challenge because we are not the problem!

Please read the quote I was responding to.

Since you won't, here's my response to the last person that misread my response:

The bloke I was responding to isn't a ball-group player. They're part of the small 2-5man resource trolls that cutoff and flag keeps where no one else is/no other groups are there to oppose them.

And onto your response:

A skilled group that does nothing but wait at captured resources, cut keeps, dumpster noobs, flag keeps when no one comes to fight them, and running when things get tough, are annoying.

Yes, it's Cyrodiil PvP, and annoying. I'm ranged, I'm not going to completely change my build and gather a group just to go try and small-scale wardens circling the floors of a resource keep when I can just stick to where the battles are.

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Ball groups do not fight fair. Or play the objectives. They are selfish players.

They like to farm lone or unco-ordinated groups of players.
They grab scrolls to just farm AP, not place & give points to their alliance; same with keeps - will get in (sometimes taking advantage of another alliance & their effort sieging) & not take the keep but farm AP.
As soon as the opposition shows they can deal with them, they cut and run, never standing to fight.

I am grateful we don’t have toxic ball groups on AD on PSEU - we play to win the campaign & have fun doing so.

Large organized groups, which seem to be what we call ball groups, do play the objectives. The group I play with, typically 4-6 players and sometimes as many as 8, captures and defends the keeps and resources. We do not always play with the horde since it is occasionally logical for a well-organized group to take another objective or location that needs defending.

In other words, sometimes we relieve the pressure on the location most players are trying to take or defend, which ultimately helps the horde.

We have also taken scrolls for the silly reason of bringing them back to a keep in our alliance, which makes our alliance stronger and other alliances weaker. That is not an AP farm but a logical and tactical mission.

And I find this cut and run statement interesting. Maybe that is when we leave the massive group of people and take another resource to harm the enemy or defend another location that is important to keep. That is hardly cut and run.

We are a competent group because we are very organized, have strong leadership, and are all on comms. This gives us a huge advantage over most groups of equal size and even larger.

You lure casuals and solos to your groups and stomp on them by flagging areas away from the horde. Sure, it makes your horde need to deal with less, but usually means there's less unorganized casual fodder to help pad kills for the casuals of your horde, so they do less PvP while you hoard these players mostly to yourself and ultimately result in less horde-fighting overall.

You pretty much play PvDoor and PvE against underequipped players until an equally coordinated group or the zerg comes to kill you because you screwed up their spawn-lines and can't get back into the fight quickly again all the while dunking on those boneheaded enough to try and help their faction unorganized.

Tactics or not, you're basically just making the PvP experience worse for the average PvP player. Good for your team, but help prevent wide-scale battles overall. In Real Life: amazing. In a game: annoying.

I respect the skill and coordination, but dear lord you're annoying whenever things get hectic and fun, it's like whenever there's a large battle going on there's some killjoys that seem to say "no, you don't get to spawn". Though, I suppose there is Battlegrounds to sate those that want constant fighting.

I also do love ESO's brilliant idea that the losing faction needs to lose harder with Keep/Scroll/Emperor factionwide stat bonuses. Let's mechanically punish failure ontop of the failure itself!

Seriously?

So, a skilled group that does well creates a worse experience for the "average PvP player." We do not complain when we lose a fight to an equal or larger group. We move on while figuring out how we could have succeeded against that group. As I explained to a guild in a different game, there is always someone better, which means there is always something to learn and room to improve.

That is PvP. Get used to it. Otherwise, there is PvE. Organize and rise to the challenge because we are not the problem!

Please read the quote I was responding to.

Since you won't, here's my response to the last person that misread my response:

The bloke I was responding to isn't a ball-group player. They're part of the small 2-5man resource trolls that cutoff and flag keeps where no one else is/no other groups are there to oppose them.

And onto your response:

A skilled group that does nothing but wait at captured resources, cut keeps, dumpster noobs, flag keeps when no one comes to fight them, and running when things get tough, are annoying.

Yes, it's Cyrodiil PvP, and annoying. I'm ranged, I'm not going to completely change my build and gather a group just to go try and small-scale wardens circling the floors of a resource keep when I can just stick to where the battles are.

and I would say that a group that is effective in helping their alliance is doing something positive. Cutting off transit is an effective tactic in itself, plus it distracts the enemy from whatever keeps it is trying to take.

As far as the rest of your response, there are groups and players of different skill levels. I do not think it is upon us, especially skilled and experienced players, to judge the actions of others. If they are doing something that annoys the enemy, they are truly doing something.

Oh, I'm adding this. If they set traps and people walk right into them, who is to blame for that?

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Ball groups do not fight fair. Or play the objectives. They are selfish players.

They like to farm lone or unco-ordinated groups of players.
They grab scrolls to just farm AP, not place & give points to their alliance; same with keeps - will get in (sometimes taking advantage of another alliance & their effort sieging) & not take the keep but farm AP.
As soon as the opposition shows they can deal with them, they cut and run, never standing to fight.

I am grateful we don’t have toxic ball groups on AD on PSEU - we play to win the campaign & have fun doing so.

Large organized groups, which seem to be what we call ball groups, do play the objectives. The group I play with, typically 4-6 players and sometimes as many as 8, captures and defends the keeps and resources. We do not always play with the horde since it is occasionally logical for a well-organized group to take another objective or location that needs defending.

In other words, sometimes we relieve the pressure on the location most players are trying to take or defend, which ultimately helps the horde.

We have also taken scrolls for the silly reason of bringing them back to a keep in our alliance, which makes our alliance stronger and other alliances weaker. That is not an AP farm but a logical and tactical mission.

And I find this cut and run statement interesting. Maybe that is when we leave the massive group of people and take another resource to harm the enemy or defend another location that is important to keep. That is hardly cut and run.

We are a competent group because we are very organized, have strong leadership, and are all on comms. This gives us a huge advantage over most groups of equal size and even larger.

You lure casuals and solos to your groups and stomp on them by flagging areas away from the horde. Sure, it makes your horde need to deal with less, but usually means there's less unorganized casual fodder to help pad kills for the casuals of your horde, so they do less PvP while you hoard these players mostly to yourself and ultimately result in less horde-fighting overall.

You pretty much play PvDoor and PvE against underequipped players until an equally coordinated group or the zerg comes to kill you because you screwed up their spawn-lines and can't get back into the fight quickly again all the while dunking on those boneheaded enough to try and help their faction unorganized.

Tactics or not, you're basically just making the PvP experience worse for the average PvP player. Good for your team, but help prevent wide-scale battles overall. In Real Life: amazing. In a game: annoying.

I respect the skill and coordination, but dear lord you're annoying whenever things get hectic and fun, it's like whenever there's a large battle going on there's some killjoys that seem to say "no, you don't get to spawn". Though, I suppose there is Battlegrounds to sate those that want constant fighting.

I also do love ESO's brilliant idea that the losing faction needs to lose harder with Keep/Scroll/Emperor factionwide stat bonuses. Let's mechanically punish failure ontop of the failure itself!

Seriously?

So, a skilled group that does well creates a worse experience for the "average PvP player." We do not complain when we lose a fight to an equal or larger group. We move on while figuring out how we could have succeeded against that group. As I explained to a guild in a different game, there is always someone better, which means there is always something to learn and room to improve.

That is PvP. Get used to it. Otherwise, there is PvE. Organize and rise to the challenge because we are not the problem!

Please read the quote I was responding to.

Since you won't, here's my response to the last person that misread my response:

The bloke I was responding to isn't a ball-group player. They're part of the small 2-5man resource trolls that cutoff and flag keeps where no one else is/no other groups are there to oppose them.

And onto your response:

A skilled group that does nothing but wait at captured resources, cut keeps, dumpster noobs, flag keeps when no one comes to fight them, and running when things get tough, are annoying.

Yes, it's Cyrodiil PvP, and annoying. I'm ranged, I'm not going to completely change my build and gather a group just to go try and small-scale wardens circling the floors of a resource keep when I can just stick to where the battles are.

and I would say that a group that is effective in helping their alliance is doing something positive. Cutting off transit is an effective tactic in itself, plus it distracts the enemy from whatever keeps it is trying to take.

As far as the rest of your response, there are groups and players of different skill levels. I do not think it is upon us, especially skilled and experienced players, to judge the actions of others. If they are doing something that annoys the enemy, they are truly doing something.

Oh, I'm adding this. If they set traps and people walk right into them, who is to blame for that?

Allow me to present my perspective: when I play AD there’s typically a group of EP that sit on Fare resources without the cut really impacting any transistus lines. All they do is sit there and kill curious solos (myself included when I don’t think they’d have bothered to sit there for so long).

I get cutting nearby keeps that spawn closest to the conflict, but these blokes are just trolls. I’ve since just taken to ignoring them. I don’t really care much about winning the campaign, and more about just getting into big fights. And it annoys me that these blokes consistently detract from those large scale fights. Go play Battlegrounds if you want small-scale.

And I think ganking is a fair strategy too, I’m in agreement. Though IMO there needs to be more ways to gank more durable targets than just squishies. (With opportunity cost of course)

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Ball groups do not fight fair. Or play the objectives. They are selfish players.

They like to farm lone or unco-ordinated groups of players.
They grab scrolls to just farm AP, not place & give points to their alliance; same with keeps - will get in (sometimes taking advantage of another alliance & their effort sieging) & not take the keep but farm AP.
As soon as the opposition shows they can deal with them, they cut and run, never standing to fight.

I am grateful we don’t have toxic ball groups on AD on PSEU - we play to win the campaign & have fun doing so.

Large organized groups, which seem to be what we call ball groups, do play the objectives. The group I play with, typically 4-6 players and sometimes as many as 8, captures and defends the keeps and resources. We do not always play with the horde since it is occasionally logical for a well-organized group to take another objective or location that needs defending.

In other words, sometimes we relieve the pressure on the location most players are trying to take or defend, which ultimately helps the horde.

We have also taken scrolls for the silly reason of bringing them back to a keep in our alliance, which makes our alliance stronger and other alliances weaker. That is not an AP farm but a logical and tactical mission.

And I find this cut and run statement interesting. Maybe that is when we leave the massive group of people and take another resource to harm the enemy or defend another location that is important to keep. That is hardly cut and run.

We are a competent group because we are very organized, have strong leadership, and are all on comms. This gives us a huge advantage over most groups of equal size and even larger.

You lure casuals and solos to your groups and stomp on them by flagging areas away from the horde. Sure, it makes your horde need to deal with less, but usually means there's less unorganized casual fodder to help pad kills for the casuals of your horde, so they do less PvP while you hoard these players mostly to yourself and ultimately result in less horde-fighting overall.

You pretty much play PvDoor and PvE against underequipped players until an equally coordinated group or the zerg comes to kill you because you screwed up their spawn-lines and can't get back into the fight quickly again all the while dunking on those boneheaded enough to try and help their faction unorganized.

Tactics or not, you're basically just making the PvP experience worse for the average PvP player. Good for your team, but help prevent wide-scale battles overall. In Real Life: amazing. In a game: annoying.

I respect the skill and coordination, but dear lord you're annoying whenever things get hectic and fun, it's like whenever there's a large battle going on there's some killjoys that seem to say "no, you don't get to spawn". Though, I suppose there is Battlegrounds to sate those that want constant fighting.

I also do love ESO's brilliant idea that the losing faction needs to lose harder with Keep/Scroll/Emperor factionwide stat bonuses. Let's mechanically punish failure ontop of the failure itself!

Seriously?

So, a skilled group that does well creates a worse experience for the "average PvP player." We do not complain when we lose a fight to an equal or larger group. We move on while figuring out how we could have succeeded against that group. As I explained to a guild in a different game, there is always someone better, which means there is always something to learn and room to improve.

That is PvP. Get used to it. Otherwise, there is PvE. Organize and rise to the challenge because we are not the problem!

Please read the quote I was responding to.

Since you won't, here's my response to the last person that misread my response:

The bloke I was responding to isn't a ball-group player. They're part of the small 2-5man resource trolls that cutoff and flag keeps where no one else is/no other groups are there to oppose them.

And onto your response:

A skilled group that does nothing but wait at captured resources, cut keeps, dumpster noobs, flag keeps when no one comes to fight them, and running when things get tough, are annoying.

Yes, it's Cyrodiil PvP, and annoying. I'm ranged, I'm not going to completely change my build and gather a group just to go try and small-scale wardens circling the floors of a resource keep when I can just stick to where the battles are.

and I would say that a group that is effective in helping their alliance is doing something positive. Cutting off transit is an effective tactic in itself, plus it distracts the enemy from whatever keeps it is trying to take.

As far as the rest of your response, there are groups and players of different skill levels. I do not think it is upon us, especially skilled and experienced players, to judge the actions of others. If they are doing something that annoys the enemy, they are truly doing something.

Oh, I'm adding this. If they set traps and people walk right into them, who is to blame for that?

Allow me to present my perspective: when I play AD there’s typically a group of EP that sit on Fare resources without the cut really impacting any transistus lines. All they do is sit there and kill curious solos (myself included when I don’t think they’d have bothered to sit there for so long).

I get cutting nearby keeps that spawn closest to the conflict, but these blokes are just trolls. I’ve since just taken to ignoring them. I don’t really care much about winning the campaign, and more about just getting into big fights. And it annoys me that these blokes consistently detract from those large scale fights. Go play Battlegrounds if you want small-scale.

And I think ganking is a fair strategy too, I’m in agreement. Though IMO there needs to be more ways to gank more durable targets than just squishies. (With opportunity cost of course)

Just as there are groups and players at a wide spectrum of skill levels and abilities, there are going to be a great deal of differences in what players and groups want to do, and that is life. The truly well-organized group that does not always stick with the horde but often tries to be impactful elsewhere will be rare. Most groups are going to be either mostly random players not on comms or a casual guild running around having fun.

Oh, and and ganking is fun. I gank but I hunt the gankers and get them. Yes, they are squishy and tend to be easy fights but it is impactful and better than running with some random group.

barney2525 wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

Is this satire?

Nah. It's ' If you can't beat it, convince the company to remove it from the game '.

Amottica wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

@Amottica - are you PSEU?

I doubt it, as DC ballgroups there do NOT play the objectives.

They come in after the hard work of sieging is done & then run around on the inside not taking flags but farming AP. Yes, we do know how to deal with them now, but its very tedious & not fun.

They grab scrolls & then do the same, farming AP and not helping their side get any campaign points. And if we get too close to wiping them they run away & dump it in the water.

If I was DC I would be considering changing alliances as they troll everyone, including their own faction.

I play in a guild group (astoundingly unorganised, but fun) and yes, we can kill ballgroups but would prefer not to have to. The fights aren’t as fun. Just dull.

Really? Our DC ball group spent our whole raid running around the map with vanq taking back keeps/protecting the north while most of DC was at ash last night.

@SerafinaWaterstar

It looks like PSEU does have ballgrops that play the objectives.

Thank you, @LadyGP, for chiming in. It is good to see PS has quality groups. I would have expected no less.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Balls choose to run agony

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote:

Pixiepumpkin wrote:

I have literally been killed so fast I never saw an animation. I saw my toon running, then the recap screen.

That’s where mount speed/stamina comes into play, you don’t give the ganker enough time to close in on you and have enough stamina to outrun the attack, though you might have run over them right into melee range.

No amount of stamina, no amount of mount speed is going to counter an invisible opponent who can global you before you can break stun.

Avran_Sylt wrote:

If you’re being killed in one GCD from snipe spam, that’s the price you pay (much like I do), for putting a lot into outgoing damage over defense.

I have had 47k health, 36k resilience tank, blocking get blown up in LITERALLY 2 seconds (died as I broke free). From ONE player, non CP.
Build has nothing to do with it, no one should be able to kill from stealth.

Avran_Sylt wrote:

At which point you then play a game of cat and mouse: once killed, respawn, bait an attack out, then pop a detect pot and hunt down the ratkin.

I have, and they insta gib me the second the detect pot goes down.

Avran_Sylt wrote:

Scenario dependent, always having a chance to react isn’t necessary

100000000000000000000000000000000000% HARD disagree.

Game design 101 (literally, I mean literally taught in game design courses) is that no player should have 100% control over another players agency. A player must be able to react. This is why game balance is so difficult and why its ongoing in any pvp game.

This might be fun for the ganker, its not fun for the recipient. Apprach this topic from a design perspective, not "what I want to see/believe in pvp" perspective.

When a player can not react to dying due to the rate at how fast they die, then the design is broken. Player A, the ganker might be having a blast, but player B will quit in frustration.

Lets say this another way.

When a customer can not react to dying due to the rate at how fast they die, then the design is broken. Customer A, the ganker might be having a blast, but customer B will quit in frustration.

From a business standpoint, you never want your customer to quit or leave due to frustration. They will take their entertainment desires elswhere which could lead to permanent vacation from your product, and where a customer goes so does their wallet.

Player A having literal god mode over player B is not a solid, long term business model. This is proven by how niche ESO PvP is.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

kaioruschellub17_ESO wrote: »

Ballgroups shouldn't exist, at least the way they're being used today in PVP, in my opinion, they really hurt the PVP experience, besides causing several connection problems and crashes when we're in the same area as them, the vast majority use set sploits and stacked healing. Currently, there's nothing you can do against a ballgroup.
That said, there is no fair play in a ballgroup, reason for a ban? Maybe not, as long as ZOS doesn't solve the problem with sets that pull through the wall and even if you block, abilities that stack multiple heals, PVP will not change, and we will have to deal with it...

PvE groups can get the same heals...

Isn't that part of the problem causing such performance issues in vet trials just like in PvP? (too much heal stacking)