Sorcerer disease spreading and other problems

StaticWave · March 14

kiwi_tea wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

The only nerf magsorc deserves is the heal on the shield. Everything else is not an issue

Continuing from the other Sorc thread, I still disagree here. The BashSorc spec you yourself said is a problem IIRC is not a Ward build. I see the Sorc problem as ranged nuke spam combined with disengage/reengage spam, which even mid players can threaten. There are serious problems with Sorc class design beyond just Ward, which has already been nerfed. I can kill Ward MagSorcs on my DK if I get in their face and outplay them, as I should be able to.

The common ground between my mid MagSorc problem and your BashSorc problem: the teleport spam.

I totally agree with this assessment. The problem with sorcs - now that I am playing MagSorc - is the completely disproportionate control you have over whether the engage happens and your ability to disengage. A mid-magsorc (ie, me) simply does not have to take a bad fight, even if they play badly and get themselves into one that deserves punishment. A magsorc can leave almost every fight in open world. They can just leave.

Always been the case for magsorc to leave a fight at will before U41, yet we didn't hear ANYBODY complain about magsorc now did we?

Hardened Ward was buffed in U41, which was August 2023. A simple search on the forum shows multiple threads before U41 desperately asking for magsorc buffs, with many people agreeing the class needed buffs.

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Afterip · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Ok, nerf them both. FOR THE GREAT JUSTICE!

Turtle_Bot · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

I’ve already told you the issue with magsorc. Everything else is a l2p issue for most people.

Unfortunately we will be seeing many more of these sorts of complaints for the foreseeable future and I'm not saying this to bash on or blame players for this issue, but to point out that this issue was always going to be inevitable when magsorc finally got buffed and players were forced to finally learn/relearn how to play against the spec (for the first time ever, for many players), due to how long the magsorc spec specifically was out of the meta before the ward buff (it was literally almost 5 years).

Pretty much every sorc build that ranked high in PvP tiers from about 2019/2020 until ward buff a year ago was always some stamsorc variant (usually a proc stacking stamsorc) or the occasional healthsorc tank build, while true magsorc specs were limited to maybe a couple dozen or so top tier, die hard, class mains, spread across all 6 servers, with any others just being casual PuGs, PvEers or questers that joined the zerg or only played during events, or trolls who constantly rerolled their sorcs and spammed fury to kill steal in low MMR Battlegrounds for ego boosting KDA scores/youtube clips.

This was one of the good things about the shorter lived (and more rock/paper/scissors) metas in PvP during ESOs early years. Everything rotated in and out of the meta so frequently (even mid patch with zero balance changes made by ZOS) that players had to constantly learn (and relearn) how to play against everything, because everything always rotated back into the meta at least once/twice a year, if not more frequently.

As you said, adjusting wards heal (make it a HoT) and maybe look into specifically the damage on streak (it's a utility ability, it doesn't also need a direct damage component) is all that's needed, everything else is just frustration at having to learn/relearn how to fight against what is essentially a brand new class/playstyle for most players.

StaticWave · March 14

Afterip wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Ok, nerf them both. FOR THE GREAT JUSTICE!

No

Tcholl · March 14

With all due respect, the issue is not on players having to learn or re learn anything. The sorc problem has been going on for almost 2 years now, so everyone had a lot of time to adapt.

The class is stacked. Period. Hardened Ward, Streak, Negate, passives, huge ranged damage...

Also, it is the single most annoying class at the moment, specially due to the game play style abusing ward and streak.

Something has to be done to tone down this class for the sake of PvP in this game.

Avran_Sylt · March 14

When potion that disables movement abilities

StaticWave · March 14

Tcholl wrote: »

With all due respect, the issue is not on players having to learn or re learn anything. The sorc problem has been going on for almost 2 years now, so everyone had a lot of time to adapt.

The class is stacked. Period. Hardened Ward, Streak, Negate, passives, huge ranged damage...

Also, it is the single most annoying class at the moment, specially due to the game play style abusing ward and streak.

Something has to be done to tone down this class for the sake of PvP in this game.

With all due respect, it is exactly the problem @Turtle_Bot stated. A simple analogy I can give is this:

You and your friend participate in the 100m sprint. Both of you are good sprinters, but you're about 0.5s slower than your friend, which is pretty significant. One day, the event organizers decide to give you a 2m head start because they think you're disadvantaged and deserve a "buff". With this new advantage, you're now dominating your friend almost every race. Your friend is upset and instead of asking the event organizers to only remove the 2m head start, he demands the event organizers to remove the 2m head start AND forbid you from wearing shoes and using the starting blocks during the race.

Do you see the absurdity of the request in that analogy I made? You guys are literally making the same absurd requests for magsorc. Magsorc was behind other classes so one day, ZOS decided to over buff that class to the point that it's now dominating. Instead of addressing the over buffs, you guys are asking ZOS to not only remove the over buffs, but also nerf the things that haven't been a problem for several years. You're basically asking for the class to be gutted worse than it was before the over buffs lol.

People never bothered playing magsorc because it was bad. U41 is what gave life to magsorc, and although ZOS did over buff this class, the issues are the over buffs, not the pre-existing features of this class.

Tcholl · March 14

The only request I have made was to tone down ALL passives from ALL classes, along making scribing a pve feature.

I am actually pointing out that Sorcs are on a tier of its own and the responsible team must fix this, as it have being going on long enough now.

Take a Sorc word for it, here is a link to Malcolm class tier list:

https://eso-pvp-builds.com/class-tier-list/

D Necromancer
C Arcanist
B Templar
B Dragonknight
A Warden
A Nightblade
S Sorcerer

S Tier: Sorcerer
Sorcerer offers a fast and agile playstyle that requires good positioning and kiting for optimal performance. However, nowadays the class performs extremely well even without using these tools. For a “kite” class that can deal good ranged damage and retreat quickly, the survivability is currently too easy mostly due to the buffed Hardened Ward. The most common variation of Sorcerer is a Maximum Magicka-based spec, which invests a lot in this stat in order to maximize both damage and defense since Hardened Ward scales off either Magicka or Health.

We cannot have a class on its own tier forever and several tiers above a few other classes. It is the same as the ez mode right now.

I am sorry but this is not acceptable for health PvP and it is not any players fault.

Aces-High-82 · March 14

Remove the healing component on ward and ppl will keep cryin bout something else. It s more efficient to stack HP and damage anyways lol. #nerfsorc111

AngryNecro · March 14

Okay, I'll admit it... I exp Sorс once and played on it for a while. But I couldn't bear to be so contemptuous of myself.
They can't even admit that this is the most infuriating, most annoying, most dishonest class in the game. The number of annoying abilities and features is simply overwhelming. Even NB archers who run into the shadows if you just look at them can't compare to these guys
Who stay on spawn zone and spam distant atak on molagBall arena - Sorc
Who can folow you and spam execution and get all kills with deal 10% of damage - sorc
What guyse think its in normal bring that fkn pets on 4x4 BG? - sorc
Who alwayse strik away if some go whrong? - sorc (Some NB do it too and it dirty boys. Come on fruty come heare and fight)

It's not just that this class is the strongest at the moment. He is also the most annoying of all and has too many tools for this. Instruments of irritation. For this reason, sorc is a problem among both average and high-end players.
No one will enoy you so muth. No DK in youre team with 2mil timeout damage and poof in burst, no NB with stels cose them open realy easy, no warden with charming from scribing. Only sorc.

And now this class, created to stupidly annoy others, has also been made very powerful.This is one of the dirtiest decisions in the game. Sorс is a cancer on TESO's body. And from update to update i see more debuff to necro and more up to sorc. I think dev team and them frend play on sorc and once they were offended by necromancers. Or they have some other problems with them, maybe they hate players who play for necromancers, maybe something else.

We can't seem to fight it. What ZOS is doing to classes is intentionally sabotaging some and intentionally over-increasing the strength of others. It is impossible not to notice or not to see this. Everyone who tries to justify this is just being hypocritical and doesn't want to admit the obvious.

What am I doing in this whole situation and I have taken personally for myself. CONTEMPT! There are no aisles to my vision for this class. I do not recognize a single victory of this class, not a single kill of this class, I do not recognize that the players in this class actually represent anything in pvp. You all know how broken it is, you all understand, you all understand that taking pets to BG is the height of indecency, you all know that this class has more advantages than any other. It's your choice to play it and your choice to face negative treatment from other players. With all this absurd situation, when for several years ZOS has clearly been acting dishonestly towards 6 out of 7 classes and prefers only one class, playing for this class you are simply disrespecting all other players. You have chosen to prize us by playing for a class that is obviously "beloved" by the developers. There can be nothing but contempt in response.

Unfortunately, the developers do not leave us anything else, there is no end in sight to this situation. You can argue for a long time here and give different arguments, there will always be players who will say that everything is OK with sorс. But judging by how long this trend continues, nothing will change. Don't humiliate yourself by arguing with Sorс.

AngryNecro · March 14

But actually, I'm willing to agree with some sorc. Kill them not imposible. after we get scribing we can bild for example wery strong but wery hard to play NB who can play from resistans potions with conservation all DD and sustaine buff. If you play through the track and jump, rather than through the shadow, sorc will have almost no chance. Other classes can also be assembled in the same way, someone is simpler, someone is easier. But at the moment, considering that the sustain buff from scribig is only 10c. These are incredibly difficult to rotate builds. It's harder than playing a necromancer. You need to constantly move, cast, and keep an eye on the sustain, buffs and els. But the effect is worth it.

Wallar333 · March 14

How big part of games community is even looking at forum ? 5% maybe? When ive been discussing ppl in game or on DC, half of ppl says PVP is **** everall so they dont play it, 30% ppl were pissed, and are refusing to play pvp mostly COS of sorcs, rest of them had other issues, like not understanding pvp and such. But WHY discussing this even ? play some BGs, it speaks for itself, no one is playing it, you usually meet some new players 500CP- who have no idea [snip] is going on and they want to try, few ppl who are in the mood, so lets try one BG (exactly me from time to time), after loosing one fight against immortal sorc, i have enough for the rest of the week, OR arcanist healer, but those healers are annoying only when grouped with sorcs, or DKs, otherwise im mostly ok with them.

The man thing is, that most dumb ppl in every game are playing some magic classes/builds etc. cos its usually easiest to play, while also usually the strongest ones, its almost in every MMORPG. And those ppl are usually exactly those who cry the most. They can have ONE SHOT spell, infinite sustain, 100k HP, and then, 10 ppl have to hunt them for half an hour and they come to forum crying cos :HOW COULD I GET 10K HIT ???? THIS CLASS NEEDS A BOOST !!!!!: and there we are. Sorcs was never weak, especially for having streak, verry good range dmg and other source dmg like dots/pets so [snip] are you guys talking about ? ... like half of games classes are almost unplayable, in every match top players are always:

1. sorcs
2. DKs
3. NBs
4. templars

In this order, but DKs ARE either just annoying (high deffs) or strong, but killable. NBs are mostly situational, NBs are good for ganks, but in a normal fight its not that easy to play, especially cos ALL good spells are close range, except for merciless resolve, which needs to be charged first, while ALSO all those spells are DODGABLE, so 80% of ppl are just using milions of roll-dodges when NBs jumps at them, and you as NB can do nothing, so youre also roll-dodging out of combat

.
Templars are usually same as DKs in this, either tanky, or strong but killable, SO actually balanced more less.

Then there comes the rest of the classes which usually sucks, arcanist is situational extremely, as DD, its only good as healer, actually i would say arc is best pvp healer now.
Wardens and necromancers, well i cant say much about those, but i never had any problem with them, sometimes i killed them, sometimes they killed me so idk, more-less balanced i would say.

But sorcs, are completely different story now. And yes, i would keep saying that streaks undodgable stun MUST BE REMOVED, this spell is BEST pvp spell in the game, and would still be, even without its stun.
Only solution for balance sorcs with other classes, is taking streaks stun, and changing ward somehow. You can always put speed debuff on streak or something, but undodgable stun is just [snip], and in combo with ward heal/shield its just incredible **** atop of milions of other source dmg, and stamina keeping for rolldodges between streaks, incredible, IDK what ZOS been thinking making this class, [snip] cos as i said before, its in every game, and such ppl wants exactly what they achieved in this game, to make a *** wizards unkillable. And if ZOS changes those spells and sorcs would stop playing ? It will still be a verry strong class, they would just have to use their brains more if they have some, OR they will leave PVP, finally so the rest of the community could have some fun playing it.

[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

xylena_lazarow · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Objective by what measure?

I can kill OW MagSorcs 1v1 just fine, assuming they actually stick around to duel, not teleport spam back and forth taking free potshots while avoiding 1v1 engagement. If you can't break their defenses in a 1v1 that's on your build.

Turtle_Bot · March 14

Tcholl wrote: »

The only request I have made was to tone down ALL passives from ALL classes, along making scribing a pve feature.

I am actually pointing out that Sorcs are on a tier of its own and the responsible team must fix this, as it have being going on long enough now.

Take a Sorc word for it, here is a link to Malcolm class tier list:

https://eso-pvp-builds.com/class-tier-list/

D Necromancer
C Arcanist
B Templar
B Dragonknight
A Warden
A Nightblade
S Sorcerer

S Tier: Sorcerer
Sorcerer offers a fast and agile playstyle that requires good positioning and kiting for optimal performance. However, nowadays the class performs extremely well even without using these tools. For a “kite” class that can deal good ranged damage and retreat quickly, the survivability is currently too easy mostly due to the buffed Hardened Ward. The most common variation of Sorcerer is a Maximum Magicka-based spec, which invests a lot in this stat in order to maximize both damage and defense since Hardened Ward scales off either Magicka or Health.

We cannot have a class on its own tier forever and several tiers above a few other classes. It is the same as the ez mode right now.

I am sorry but this is not acceptable for health PvP and it is not any players fault.

Notice how majority of Malcolm's commentary of sorc boils down specifically to ward making survivability too easy.

For a “kite” class that can deal good ranged damage and retreat quickly, the survivability is currently too easy mostly due to the buffed Hardened Ward. The most common variation of Sorcerer is a Maximum Magicka-based spec, which invests a lot in this stat in order to maximize both damage and defense since Hardened Ward scales off either Magicka or Health.

Remove ward and sorc sits b-tier at best (even with scribing). This ranking is from a decade of first-hand experience as a shieldless magsorc main. Hardened ward is hard carrying sorcs defense currently, the difference is literally night and day, even when not completely stacking into max mag (sitting around 35-40k mag) the difference is still huge between ward and no ward builds even accounting for streak and ranged damage and abilities like heal soul are included.

Feel free to try it for yourselves if you don't believe me. Remove Ward from your sorc bars and replace it with Vibrant Shroud or Heal soul, changing nothing else about the build, play it for a solid 3-4 hours of actual high end PvP (i.e. don't just zerg-surf or 1v1 bad players and call it a day...) and get back to us on just how "ez mode" sorc is without ward. More props if the session is recorded (if possible) to share it here as well.

I can guarantee you that without ward the class is significantly less forgiving defensively than when it has ward, despite still having streak. This is because that 28-30k health on a sorc with no ward is just that, 28-30k health, not 30k health with a spammable and replenishable ~10-15k buffer on top of it.
Not having that shield means those bad fights are extremely punishing, even with streak (streak doesn't provide any buffer if you get caught in CC). Removing ward also leaves sorcs extremely prone to ganks, because once again, the sorc is at 30k health, not 30k health + 10-15k shield.

xylena_lazarow · March 14

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I can guarantee you that without ward the class is significantly less forgiving defensively than when it has ward, despite still having streak.

If they deleted Ward, it would certainly reduce the frequency and volume of range spam, since only "good" players would be on MagSorc. I could probably live with that. Ironically, it would not at all solve Static's issue with BashSorc.

Wallar333 · March 14

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

The only request I have made was to tone down ALL passives from ALL classes, along making scribing a pve feature.

I am actually pointing out that Sorcs are on a tier of its own and the responsible team must fix this, as it have being going on long enough now.

Take a Sorc word for it, here is a link to Malcolm class tier list:

https://eso-pvp-builds.com/class-tier-list/

D Necromancer
C Arcanist
B Templar
B Dragonknight
A Warden
A Nightblade
S Sorcerer

S Tier: Sorcerer
Sorcerer offers a fast and agile playstyle that requires good positioning and kiting for optimal performance. However, nowadays the class performs extremely well even without using these tools. For a “kite” class that can deal good ranged damage and retreat quickly, the survivability is currently too easy mostly due to the buffed Hardened Ward. The most common variation of Sorcerer is a Maximum Magicka-based spec, which invests a lot in this stat in order to maximize both damage and defense since Hardened Ward scales off either Magicka or Health.

We cannot have a class on its own tier forever and several tiers above a few other classes. It is the same as the ez mode right now.

I am sorry but this is not acceptable for health PvP and it is not any players fault.

Notice how majority of Malcolm's commentary of sorc boils down specifically to ward making survivability too easy.

For a “kite” class that can deal good ranged damage and retreat quickly, the survivability is currently too easy mostly due to the buffed Hardened Ward. The most common variation of Sorcerer is a Maximum Magicka-based spec, which invests a lot in this stat in order to maximize both damage and defense since Hardened Ward scales off either Magicka or Health.

Remove ward and sorc sits b-tier at best (even with scribing). This ranking is from a decade of first-hand experience as a shieldless magsorc main. Hardened ward is hard carrying sorcs defense currently, the difference is literally night and day, even when not completely stacking into max mag (sitting around 35-40k mag) the difference is still huge between ward and no ward builds even accounting for streak and ranged damage and abilities like heal soul are included.

Feel free to try it for yourselves if you don't believe me. Remove Ward from your sorc bars and replace it with Vibrant Shroud or Heal soul, changing nothing else about the build, play it for a solid 3-4 hours of actual high end PvP (i.e. don't just zerg-surf or 1v1 bad players and call it a day...) and get back to us on just how "ez mode" sorc is without ward. More props if the session is recorded (if possible) to share it here as well.

I can guarantee you that without ward the class is significantly less forgiving defensively than when it has ward, despite still having streak. This is because that 28-30k health on a sorc with no ward is just that, 28-30k health, not 30k health with a spammable and replenishable ~10-15k buffer on top of it.
Not having that shield means those bad fights are extremely punishing, even with streak (streak doesn't provide any buffer if you get caught in CC). Removing ward also leaves sorcs extremely prone to ganks, because once again, the sorc is at 30k health, not 30k health + 10-15k shield.

Bro, what youre describing about vulnerability, low res or against ganks, is a reality of any other class in the game, except for DKs maybe, but those are usually tanky, and dont have as much dmg as sorcs so [snip] ? ... Ive got ganked as NB, as a fkn NB in IC by sorcs i cant even count how many times, and i have ZERO shields and if i want to do ANY dmg, i need build for that and DMG spells equipped while i have to get to close range and dont have anything like streak to chase ppl or get away if wont go well, so again bro [snip]. Try to play any other class and youll see how it feels. Sorc is DMG it has a lot of dmg, which means it should be paper, if you want to be tank, wear plates lol.

[edited for profanity bypass]

StaticWave · March 14

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Objective by what measure?

I can kill OW MagSorcs 1v1 just fine, assuming they actually stick around to duel, not teleport spam back and forth taking free potshots while avoiding 1v1 engagement. If you can't break their defenses in a 1v1 that's on your build.

Objective by the fact that before Ward buff, magsorc was trash in Cyrodiil and post Ward buff, magsorc is top tier. Streak remained unchanged. Is that good enough of an objective measure for you?

I too don’t have an issue killing Sorcs, so you don’t have to worry about me lol. I can guarantee right now my build is 99% better than people’s builds on this forum, and that’s also field tested.

I’m genuinely curious about your actual agenda here. Are you saying magsorc deserves to have Streak nerfed? Say I entertain your stance on this matter and agree with you. What are you going to do about Sorc losing access to a stun and having more bar space issues?

Wallar333 · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Objective by what measure?

I can kill OW MagSorcs 1v1 just fine, assuming they actually stick around to duel, not teleport spam back and forth taking free potshots while avoiding 1v1 engagement. If you can't break their defenses in a 1v1 that's on your build.

Objective by the fact that before Ward buff, magsorc was trash in Cyrodiil and post Ward buff, magsorc is top tier. Streak remained unchanged. Is that good enough of an objective measure for you?

I too don’t have an issue killing Sorcs, so you don’t have to worry about me lol. I can guarantee right now my build is 99% better than people’s builds on this forum, and that’s also field tested.

I’m genuinely curious about your actual agenda here. Are you saying magsorc deserves to have Streak nerfed? Say I entertain your stance on this matter and agree with you. What are you going to do about Sorc losing access to a stun and having more bar space issues?

As a DD supposed to be class, with high RANGE dmg, i dont see any reason why you need hard CC that much,especially on a teleport spell, sorc class shoudlnt be tank/heal/DD all in one with teleports and hard CC lol, but idc about sorcs having hard CC, ZOS can always put it on another spell for example, but it definitely shouldnt be on streak lol.
Idk bro, sorc is OP one way or another, see other ppls comments, see some other topics here on forums, ask anyone in game, or check BGs/cyro, sorcs wont get out of this, its destroying whole PVP content in the game, and ppl are refusing to play this nonsense, from BIGGER part cos of sorcs. Like video you posted before, NO other class would, nor should survive such a fight, like 1v5 lol. And no other class except sorc is able to survive it, only class able to get away more less is NB, but its way too easy to get them out of invis, when so many ppl are using sets/spells for reveal, especially in cyro, and without invis NB dont have ANY advantage, not to mention sorcs streak, when theres sorc, its 100% death for NB, if sorc is not completely dumb, you just use streak at the spot where you seen NB takes invis, it drains magicka like crazy, so NB wont be too far from the spot.. And other classes dont even have anything to get away from fight, not even invis, so again, [snip] ?
You cant be serious about defending such mechanics, im sure its good for you as sorc, but soon, there would be no one else playing PVP, just you sorcs fighting each other for eternity, with rest of the community gone, or rather killing openworld mobs.

All classes have bar space issues, ive had to loose heals and get rid of one multitarget CC and strong debuff to get more dmg and enemy resist debuff, so ? You expect other classes dont have issues with their skill bars? Or what, i dont understand ...

[edited for profanity bypass]

Tcholl · March 14

One year ago sorc mains were defending hardened ward, now that all the players are asking to nerf the class, hardened ward becomes expendable.

It would be better to support the change several updates ago, to see if that would be the case. Now, the whole sorc package is under scrutinity and the rants will go on until the nerf hammer strikes.

I tried to warn this before, the same way I tried to warn that players would ignore and disrespect sorcs the same way they treat tanks.

Urzigurumash · March 14

As if struck by a Shooting Star IV the MagSorcs of Nirn writhe in scalding contrition wrought by the blazing diatribe of the mighty @AngryNecro ! O come all ye MagSorcs and hear your judgment!

xylena_lazarow · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

I’m genuinely curious about your actual agenda here.

Dealing with nonstop threatening range spam is unfun ESO PvP even when I survive or win. Don't care so much how exactly they fix it, I came here for the massive medieval melee brawl they advertised, if I wanted a shooter I'd be on Rivals instead. Just look around, Cyro is dead 18 hours a day, single digits of players are willing to leave the zerg. Like most players just get shot dead by an off screen machine gun before they can even get sucked to death by Rushing Agony.

To answer your question about Sorc bars, nothing because Streak will still be powerful if addressed correctly. I don't actually need to be able to spam Streak 7+ times in a row on my StamSorc (from full with buffs and pots).

StaticWave · March 14

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I’m genuinely curious about your actual agenda here.

Dealing with nonstop threatening range spam is unfun ESO PvP even when I survive or win. Don't care so much how exactly they fix it, I came here for the massive medieval melee brawl they advertised, if I wanted a shooter I'd be on Rivals instead. Just look around, Cyro is dead 18 hours a day, single digits of players are willing to leave the zerg. Like most players just get shot dead by an off screen machine gun before they can even get sucked to death by Rushing Agony.

To answer your question about Sorc bars, nothing because Streak will still be powerful if addressed correctly. I don't actually need to be able to spam Streak 7+ times in a row on my StamSorc (from full with buffs and pots).

Okay, my next question is why now? Why after all these years does Sorc need Streak nerf?

xylena_lazarow · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

Okay, my next question is why now? Why after all these years does Sorc need Streak nerf?

Because this isn't the same game as 5 years ago or whenever. I do think Streak is way too spammable but I don't know for sure that it "needs" to be nerfed, for example I think they could maybe solve the problem by making Sorc ranged attacks as slow as Warden birds or Necro skulls. As I'm not a dev, I'd rather let ZOS figure that part out.

Urzigurumash · March 14

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I’m genuinely curious about your actual agenda here.

Dealing with nonstop threatening range spam is unfun ESO PvP even when I survive or win. Don't care so much how exactly they fix it, I came here for the massive medieval melee brawl they advertised, if I wanted a shooter I'd be on Rivals instead. Just look around, Cyro is dead 18 hours a day, single digits of players are willing to leave the zerg. Like most players just get shot dead by an off screen machine gun before they can even get sucked to death by Rushing Agony.

Not if youre doing it on Templar like me, then you're as morally righteous as Stendarr himself

StaticWave · March 14

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Why is Streak suddenly an issue, when the objective issue is Hardened Ward?

Objective by what measure?

I can kill OW MagSorcs 1v1 just fine, assuming they actually stick around to duel, not teleport spam back and forth taking free potshots while avoiding 1v1 engagement. If you can't break their defenses in a 1v1 that's on your build.

Objective by the fact that before Ward buff, magsorc was trash in Cyrodiil and post Ward buff, magsorc is top tier. Streak remained unchanged. Is that good enough of an objective measure for you?

I too don’t have an issue killing Sorcs, so you don’t have to worry about me lol. I can guarantee right now my build is 99% better than people’s builds on this forum, and that’s also field tested.

I’m genuinely curious about your actual agenda here. Are you saying magsorc deserves to have Streak nerfed? Say I entertain your stance on this matter and agree with you. What are you going to do about Sorc losing access to a stun and having more bar space issues?

As a DD supposed to be class, with high RANGE dmg, i dont see any reason why you need hard CC that much,especially on a teleport spell, sorc class shoudlnt be tank/heal/DD all in one with teleports and hard CC lol, but idc about sorcs having hard CC, ZOS can always put it on another spell for example, but it definitely shouldnt be on streak lol.
Idk bro, sorc is OP one way or another, see other ppls comments, see some other topics here on forums, ask anyone in game, or check BGs/cyro, sorcs wont get out of this, its destroying whole PVP content in the game, and ppl are refusing to play this nonsense, from BIGGER part cos of sorcs. Like video you posted before, NO other class would, nor should survive such a fight, like 1v5 lol. And no other class except sorc is able to survive it, only class able to get away more less is NB, but its way too easy to get them out of invis, when so many ppl are using sets/spells for reveal, especially in cyro, and without invis NB dont have ANY advantage, not to mention sorcs streak, when theres sorc, its 100% death for NB, if sorc is not completely dumb, you just use streak at the spot where you seen NB takes invis, it drains magicka like crazy, so NB wont be too far from the spot.. And other classes dont even have anything to get away from fight, not even invis, so again, [snip] ?
You cant be serious about defending such mechanics, im sure its good for you as sorc, but soon, there would be no one else playing PVP, just you sorcs fighting each other for eternity, with rest of the community gone, or rather killing openworld mobs.

All classes have bar space issues, ive had to loose heals and get rid of one multitarget CC and strong debuff to get more dmg and enemy resist debuff, so ? You expect other classes dont have issues with their skill bars? Or what, i dont understand ...

I’ve played through 7 years of Sorc being trash to being decent and I know exactly where Sorc needs adjustments and where it does not. I can tell you with certainty that more than half of your complaints are not actual issues of the class.

I’m not going to comment on your skill level because I don’t want to derail the thread, but from my experience magsorc’s mobility is not hard to deal with. I have multiple videos showing how easy it can be to chase down a Streaking Sorc without needing Streak yourself.

As for your argument about Sorc surviving outnumbered PvP, there are countless videos of good players pulling off 1vXes on every class. All of them include killing weaker players because that is what a 1vX is about. If you think for one moment that a magsorc can 1vX good players then you are very mistaken.

Warden 1vX:

https://youtu.be/fUwklbqTpgU?si=AAspxGA3zEo4cvPu

DK 1vX:

https://youtu.be/4wSX7P2r744?si=3-LmU4BxQS_kD8nu

NB 1vX:

https://youtu.be/XxiY5xorPEc?si=l7f1TyOh91CcNmKq

Necro 1vX:

https://youtu.be/jaFLRRkfJFQ?si=NhYV5Ur3-nw_D-UK

Templar 1vX:

https://youtu.be/dUbiHyWG9YQ?si=wrbhz2Y2QzYlAd0o

Arcanist 1vX:

https://youtu.be/qAO78rdSMic?si=1OVmnh7RF_zKXPH6

All of these clips are good players on every class pulling off 1vXes. Of course some classes like Sorc and NB have an easier time doing it, but it doesn’t mean 1vXing is exclusively a Sorc thing.

Every class has bar space issues? I’m sorry but the only 2 classes that legitimately have bar space issues are Templar and Sorc. This is due to the fact that these 2 classes have to give up either a monster set, a potion, or an important buff to be able to fit the mandatory buffs to function in Cyrodiil.

[edited to remove quote]

xylena_lazarow · March 14

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not if youre doing it on Templar like me, then you're as morally righteous as Stendarr himself

Static asked why Streak is just now a problem. Templars are one buff away from that stupid beam being the worst thing in PvP. It's only "balanced" by the otherwise mid offensive kit, and Sorcs doing most of the damage to enable it.

Urzigurumash · March 14

Yeah for sure Templar absolutely shreds from range, it cant stand and square up and do meaningful damage like a DK or Warden but it can maybe outburst them

Which is why I dont think we're at 2018 levels of MagSorc Domination, the last time I remember RangePlar being this strong in comparison was 2015

but I'm on Xbox and many of our GodSorcs are gracefully on other classes it seems

Urzigurumash · March 14

Speaking of Xbox Class Balance - what balances out DK? Its thematic counterpart, Warden. These 2 classes are at nearly identical power levels on Xbox

Hard to miss the counterpart class to Sorc - Arc - is by far, by far, earning the least AP

Necro finds itself in MagBlades long held tier of yesteryear - premiere VD envelope, maybe the most efficient AP earner out there, but otherwise absent from the battlefield

Anyhow buff Arc maybe it can balance Sorc out a bit

edit: Im going to shorten Buff Arc to Bark and that will be my default pvp mantra for now instead of "rework Sorc", bark bark

StaticWave · March 14

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Okay, my next question is why now? Why after all these years does Sorc need Streak nerf?

Because this isn't the same game as 5 years ago or whenever. I do think Streak is way too spammable but I don't know for sure that it "needs" to be nerfed, for example I think they could maybe solve the problem by making Sorc ranged attacks as slow as Warden birds or Necro skulls. As I'm not a dev, I'd rather let ZOS figure that part out.

Well Streak used to have a 50% ramping cost until people started complaining that the cost was too much, hence ZOS lowering it to 33%. Streak’s stun used to be much worse and it got nerfed too. Streak has already been over-nerfed and the feedback was mostly negative, so now we have the current Streak which imo isn’t really that OP if we consider the grand scheme of things and how movement speed is so easily accessible.

I do think that magsorc only needs to be less tanky (not less mobile). Otherwise, I don’t really care if they reduce the projectile speed. As long as they don’t touch Streak I am fine. Streak is the reason why I still play my stamsorc. I am even willing to go as far as making the stun blockable, but any further nerfs to that skill would just turn me off the class completely and I’d rather play NB or Warden instead.

xylena_lazarow · March 14

StaticWave wrote: »

I do think that magsorc only needs to be less tanky (not less mobile). Otherwise, I don’t really care if they reduce the projectile speed. As long as they don’t touch Streak I am fine.

If you and I can both beat Ward MagSorcs in an even 1v1 scenario, how are they too tanky?

Perhaps if Curse, Frags, Overload, Cwep buffed LAs, Mages Fury, and whatever else all had slow telegraphed cast animations and slow arcing projectiles like birds or snipe, they would still have the high damage potential, but even casual opponents would be able to avoid their slow telegraphed attacks. Sweatlords would play StamSorc for its speed and risk/reward melee playstyle, you'd have to be a real diehard caster wizard to want to sweat at MagSorc in PvP, like Necros now.