Can/will they improve the character creator?

ImmortalCX · March 12

One thing that would really invigorate the game is updating the character creator and character models to look better. Ten years ago, ESO looked great compared to other MMO. Skyrim character creator was state of the art and ESO gave similar results.

Today, there isn't enough diversity in character models. My opinion is that characters all look gaunt and skinny, and its hard to differentiate different races. Even if you max the sliders, your character stills looks pretty svelte.

Has there been any talk of this? I think this would go farther than any other upgrade. NPCs could all use the old models, but player characters deserve special treatment.

ArchMikem · March 12

They got around the limited creation tools by introducing more adornments and skins, but you're right that there's RPGs out there with vastly more complex character creators.

I just really want options for Beast Race Tails. Length and Width sliders plus adornments.

TaSheen · March 12

I do not want my girls' looks changed. The last couple of times that happened, I never played those games again, because my girls were ruined, no longer the characters I'd spent a lot of time on.

I do not want to see character model changes EVER.

SpiritofESO · March 13

TaSheen wrote: »

I do not want my girls' looks changed. The last couple of times that happened, I never played those games again, because my girls were ruined, no longer the characters I'd spent a lot of time on.

I do not want to see character model changes EVER.

Yes, what TaSheen said!

I worked quite a while on character creation and later made minor changes with Appearance Change Tokens (twice) until I got a lovely girl Wood Elf akin to Eveli Sharp-Arrow or Votary Nahlia.

So, no. No changes except additions of cosmetic additions, minor and major adornments, etc.

If your characters look "gaunt and skinny" go to the Body Type section of character creation, move the slider to the TOP of the pyramid (muscular) then click straight downward using the D-Pad four or five times until all the muscles become "smoothed over." Voila!

(Official Portrait)

TaSheen · March 13

SpiritofESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

TaSheen wrote: »

I do not want my girls' looks changed. The last couple of times that happened, I never played those games again, because my girls were ruined, no longer the characters I'd spent a lot of time on.

I do not want to see character model changes EVER.

Yes, what TaSheen said! I worked quite a while on character creation and later made minor changes with Appearance Change Tokens (twice) until I got a lovely girl Wood Elf akin to Eveli Sharp-Arrow or Votary Nahlia.

So, no. No changes except additions of cosmetic additions, minor and major adornments, etc.

If your characters look "gaunt and skinny" go to the Body Type section of character creation, move the slider to the TOP of the pyramid (muscular) then click straight downward using the D-Pad four or five times until all the muscles become "smoothed over." Voila!

(Official Portrait)

Now see, I like my girls muscular but "svelte" (yes, they CAN be both). My girls are what I've never been able to be (I'm short, not fat, but at nearly 80 certainly NOT svelte and muscular!)

She's great! I'm not an Eveli fan but I do love Nahlia!

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

My opinion is that characters all look gaunt and skinny, and its hard to differentiate different races. Even if you max the sliders, your character stills looks pretty svelte.

As much as I think the character creator can do with some updates, like have better lightning, better angles, let us see the character in animation, and also give them better texture and polygons (male characters have angles on their chests), this is the first time I see this problem. That they are all look gaunt and skinny or svelte.

Like I wouldn't use any of those words for these characters.

Female characters are probably the only ones that suffer from lack of body mass, often not even reaching half the mass. But one can make female characters who are not skinny or svelte

ImmortalCX · March 13

Screenshots just prove what I'm saying. There isn't much diversity. Everyone looks pretty much the same.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Screenshots just prove what I'm saying. There isn't much diversity. Everyone looks pretty much the same.

You probably need to give examples if a short and chubby Breton and a muscular orc look the same.

TaSheen · March 13

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

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ImmortalCX wrote: »

Screenshots just prove what I'm saying. There isn't much diversity. Everyone looks pretty much the same.

You probably need to give examples if a short and chubby Breton and a muscular orc look the same.

Yeah. Weird.... now, as I said all my girls are "skinny, muscular" etc because they are ANYTHING but me (heh.... for one thing, they're all young and beautiful....)

Leave the character models alone....

Kittytravel · March 13

I'm honestly only behind this is if it's under the idea of further unlocking the current customization options without changing any of the models.

Let us make even BEEFIER characters if we want. If I want a JoJo's Bizarre Adventure level character then let me do it!
Having options to increase "arm mass" or "leg mass" would be fine as well, maybe a slider or two for a belly shape. All of this of course requires a bit of remapping on the armor. But the absolute biggest thing is to not make any of the changes cause old character looks to be changed. No one should be forced into a new character model.

amig186 · March 13

Agreed, the models and textures are severely outdated at this point, but as long as there are people who can't let go of their 10+ year old characters, nothing will change. I suppose the only thing they could do is let the sliders increase or decrease things more than they do currently, adding new sliders would probably require changing the models so much that they might as well just make new ones.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · March 13

I'm just wondering why after all this time we still can't have a simple height indicator as you adjust the slider bar?? How about it @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom?

Danikat · March 13

I agree that it would be helpful for the OP to give examples of the range of options they want, because (as this thread already shows) a lot of people think you can get very different looking characters from the current character creator, so this sounds like a redundant request.

(Also bear in mind ESO is intended to look more realistic than many MMOs so you're not going to get big exaggerated cartoon features here.)

I also agree that if more options are added it needs to be in a way that doesn't change existing characters, because I'm not adverse to new options but I like how my current characters look and don't want them all changed, even if someone else considers it an "upgrade".

colossalvoids · March 13

At least some screenshots would make sense as other people aren't really mind readers to see the point that's super subjective and not illustrated in any way.

ImmortalCX · March 13

amig186 wrote: »

Agreed, the models and textures are severely outdated at this point, but as long as there are people who can't let go of their 10+ year old characters, nothing will change. I suppose the only thing they could do is let the sliders increase or decrease things more than they do currently, adding new sliders would probably require changing the models so much that they might as well just make new ones.

All they wpuld need to do is present a parallel system, and everyone would switch. They think they like their characters looks until they see new high res models.

ImmortalCX · March 13

Danikat wrote: »

I agree that it would be helpful for the OP to give examples of the range of options they want, because (as this thread already shows) a lot of people think you can get very different looking characters from the current character creator, so this sounds like a redundant request.

(Also bear in mind ESO is intended to look more realistic than many MMOs so you're not going to get big exaggerated cartoon features here.)

I also agree that if more options are added it needs to be in a way that doesn't change existing characters, because I'm not adverse to new options but I like how my current characters look and don't want them all changed, even if someone else considers it an "upgrade".

Look at any other game released in past couple years.

In eso its impossible to tell someones race unless they are a wood elf. Everyone is a generic humanoid shape without much range. And they tend to be skinny even when max sliders.

I came back to the game this week after five year break and the character models are the most lacking, biggest bang for buck change they could make.

Its a generic pseudo realistic style that is artless for lack of better word. Characters are bland.

Edit... I know the big problem is cash shop personalities. If you dont buy a personality your character stands there like a barbie doll. That doesnt cut it in 2025. Each race should have its own passive movements and mannerisms. An orc with " duchess" emote is not an orc. Its a duchess. An orc without a personality is just a generic humanoid with weird teeth. Each race should have default mannerisms.

This just doesnt cut it. In 2014 they retreated from the cartoonish looks of WOW and went with this. It didnt age as well.

WOW did at least one major refactoring of character models.

Maitsukas · March 13

I don't want my characters to get the Ithelia face treatment.

Vrelanier · March 13

If they update the character creation, I'd like to say that I want a "copy this character's settings" thing in it. All my Dunmer ladies look the same, except for age and how hostile they look. I like what I like and it's annoying to have to recreate it every time.

Maitsukas... don't give them ideas. Don't even joke about it. *shudder*

sans-culottes · March 13

TaSheen wrote: »

I do not want my girls' looks changed. The last couple of times that happened, I never played those games again, because my girls were ruined, no longer the characters I'd spent a lot of time on.

I do not want to see character model changes EVER.

I must respectfully disagree. Few things would make me happier than updates to the plasticine character models. If they were able to upgrade them to look less like mannequins, then I’d be rather pleased.

emilyhyoyeon · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

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Danikat wrote: »

I agree that it would be helpful for the OP to give examples of the range of options they want, because (as this thread already shows) a lot of people think you can get very different looking characters from the current character creator, so this sounds like a redundant request.

(Also bear in mind ESO is intended to look more realistic than many MMOs so you're not going to get big exaggerated cartoon features here.)

I also agree that if more options are added it needs to be in a way that doesn't change existing characters, because I'm not adverse to new options but I like how my current characters look and don't want them all changed, even if someone else considers it an "upgrade".

Each race should have its own passive movements and mannerisms. An orc with " duchess" emote is not an orc. Its a duchess. An orc without a personality is just a generic humanoid with weird teeth. Each race should have default mannerisms.

I don't get this. Not every individual of a race necessarily grows up in the same culture, location, etc.

I get that a default isn't necessarily implying that every character is like that, but an orc with the duchess personality is definitely still an orc, and I don't want the game to put mannerisms on my character by default if I'm not given other free options. I would rather them be default blank.

I have many altmer characters and they all were raised in different provinces and cultures and have different mannerisms.
I have a khajiit character that was raised in imperial and argonian culture. I have an argonian who was raised in imperial culture. I have an altmer that was raised in dunmer culture.

I'm all for making a pack of 5 or so basic personalities (as in the cosmetic) be free to players though so there's fewer barbie-standing people everywhere.

But I'd rather have 5 neutral barbie-standing altmer than 5 haughty and prideful (I guess?) standing altmer when none, maybe one, of my altmer even have that personality.

disky · March 13

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I'm all for making a pack of 5 or so basic personalities (as in the cosmetic) be free to players though so there's fewer barbie-standing people everywhere.

But I'd rather have 5 neutral barbie-standing altmer than 5 haughty and prideful (I guess?) standing altmer when none, maybe one, of my altmer even have that personality.

Agreed. I'd like to point out that the Custom Idle Animations add-on is a great way to add personality to your characters. It automatically plays a selection of emotes and idles in varying levels of frequency and randomness, and while it can take a little bit of effort to set up, the result is so worth it. It gives me a reason to collect emotes and it gives me a way to create personalities that the game alone cannot.

If you care about character presentation I can't recommend it enough.

Toanis · March 13

Here is how another MMO that is totally not using Hero Engine recently modernized their characters.

Next time you meet someone again after 10-20 years, just tell them they look very detailed now

tomofhyrule · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Danikat wrote: »

I agree that it would be helpful for the OP to give examples of the range of options they want, because (as this thread already shows) a lot of people think you can get very different looking characters from the current character creator, so this sounds like a redundant request.

(Also bear in mind ESO is intended to look more realistic than many MMOs so you're not going to get big exaggerated cartoon features here.)

I also agree that if more options are added it needs to be in a way that doesn't change existing characters, because I'm not adverse to new options but I like how my current characters look and don't want them all changed, even if someone else considers it an "upgrade".

In eso its impossible to tell someones race unless they are a wood elf. Everyone is a generic humanoid shape without much range. And they tend to be skinny even when max sliders.

Let’s try:

Gee, I don’t know guys. Definitely not a wood elf, but beyond that…? Uhh…? Maybe an Altmer?

—

Look, the models may be the same age as the rest of the game, but they match with the rest of the game. That was why everyone was repulsed by Ithelia at first, was because she was a much higher resolution than everything around her, which made her look like she didn’t fit in the world at all

Now it’s not perfect - female characters (Orcs especially) are very samey and can’t be made to look larger or buffer, but there is clear variation with the dudes at least (and let’s face it - variation on the guys but ‘all women must be size 2-6 and perky’ is not an ESO problem as much as it’s an every-game-ever problem). But I do agree, please don’t mess with character models… at least not until you also remodel *the entire game* so that we don’t end up with a load of HD Ithelias walking through a world that no longer matches them.

thejadefalcon · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Each race should have its own passive movements and mannerisms. An orc with " duchess" emote is not an orc. Its a duchess. An orc without a personality is just a generic humanoid with weird teeth. Each race should have default mannerisms.

ESO players try not to be racist challenge (IMPOSSIBLE).

I know ZOS often forgets this as well, but races are not a hive mind. An orc that grew up in a clan in Wrothgar will have a very different personality and outlook on life than one born in Imperial City or Senchal. Much like the real world, race can *inform* who you are, but it does not *define* you.

I actually have an orc character that has the backstory of being adopted into a Breton family and raised as a noble. She is both an orc *and* a lady.

Toanis wrote: »

Here is how another MMO that is totally not using Hero Engine recently modernized their characters.

Did they give character customisation tokens out for free after that? One for every character? Because those characters are clearly different. Neither is better, I'm not making a comment on that, but the one on the right looks *much* older and if my character was changed like that, completely out of my control, I would be extremely annoyed.

TaSheen · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

WOW did at least one major refactoring of character models.

They did. And that was when I quit that game after 7 years, 7 accounts and have never been back. I was extremely unhappy with the changes Blizzard made, so I quit paying them.

I LIKE my characters the way they are. But of course, if ZOS screws them up, I can quit paying ZOS their 4 annual subs and never come back too.

sans-culottes · March 13

TaSheen wrote: »

show previous quotes

ImmortalCX wrote: »

WOW did at least one major refactoring of character models.

They did. And that was when I quit that game after 7 years, 7 accounts and have never been back. I was extremely unhappy with the changes Blizzard made, so I quit paying them.

I LIKE my characters the way they are. But of course, if ZOS screws them up, I can quit paying ZOS 4 annual subs and never come back too.

I understand that not everyone likes graphical updates, but they’re generally aimed at keeping the game visually relevant for newer players while maintaining overall artistic consistency. If models are updated, then a toggle option (like WoW eventually implemented) would be a reasonable compromise.

EverQuest handled this well when it introduced the Luclin models, allowing players to toggle between old and new. If ZOS ever updates ESO’s models, then a similar approach would make sense—offering improvements without alienating those who prefer the original look.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Look at any other game released in past couple years.

In eso its impossible to tell someones race unless they are a wood elf. Everyone is a generic humanoid shape without much range. And they tend to be skinny even when max sliders.

I came back to the game this week after five year break and the character models are the most lacking, biggest bang for buck change they could make.

Its a generic pseudo realistic style that is artless for lack of better word. Characters are bland.

Edit... I know the big problem is cash shop personalities. If you dont buy a personality your character stands there like a barbie doll. That doesnt cut it in 2025. Each race should have its own passive movements and mannerisms. An orc with " duchess" emote is not an orc. Its a duchess. An orc without a personality is just a generic humanoid with weird teeth. Each race should have default mannerisms.

This just doesnt cut it. In 2014 they retreated from the cartoonish looks of WOW and went with this. It didnt age as well.

WOW did at least one major refactoring of character models.

I think if you can't tell the difference between any race except wood elves of all things, I think you might need to speak to an optician. ESO made the Elder Scrolls races more distinct than they have been before.

With some of the cosmetics we have received over the years, I actually wish things were more bland because things are getting too cartoony. I'm playing Elder Scrolls, not World of Warcraft. They are two different settings with different styles. Elder Scrolls is stylised but not cartoony.

We definitely need more personalities, especially more subtle and natural ones, that are obtainable in game. But personalities doesn't affect the body or face of any race, so kinda odd to bring those up in your issue of all races somehow looking all the same.

Additionally this:

Each race should have its own passive movements and mannerisms. An orc with " duchess" emote is not an orc. Its a duchess. An orc without a personality is just a generic humanoid with weird teeth. Each race should have default mannerisms.

This, is a hard pass. The various races of Tamriel aren't restricted to a single culture each, because races are not a monolith nor a hivemind, that's not how people or life works. You can have an orc who is a duchess, in fact there are several noble or high society orcs found in Elder Scrolls IV's Cyrodiil. Who are just one of many examples of this which exist in every Elder Scrolls game. ESO is full of these examples, because again, races are not a monolith and definitely shouldn't be forced to be one.

disky · March 13

I'm going to bet that ZOS is very reticent to making these kinds of changes due to history, although that does seem to be changing now that they're updating the look of the base game zones, so who knows. Personally I'd welcome some updates to the character model/mesh detail levels, texture resolutions and shader quality, and though I feel like the options we have in the creator are very good, it certainly couldn't hurt to have more.

And I know it won't happen but I think it would be great to see more widespread utilization of new assets while sunsetting more of the older styles for both characters and environments. We have updated versions of a lot of the older styles which haven't entirely replaced the older styles for (I assume) potential community backlash reasons, but I think that could be a very positive change for the game. Look at EVE Online, that game has evolved visually in dramatic ways over the course of its lifetime and I think CCP's players have been generally quite happy with the changes. Given how well ESO's visual style has improved over the years, I'm willing to trust ZOS with a similar kind of refresh.

As someone who was in the beta and avoided ESO for a long time in-part because, to my eyes, it looked really awful, I've been very pleased with the direction the game has taken visually in more recent years, and hopefully that means we'll see something good coming for the character creator and character models as well.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 13

Toanis wrote: »

Here is how another MMO that is totally not using Hero Engine recently modernized their characters.
Spoiler
Next time you meet someone again after 10-20 years, just tell them they look very detailed now

Look older you say? You should update your drivers because I only had a graphical update

💅

LadyGP · March 13

ArchMikem wrote: »

They got around the limited creation tools by introducing more adornments and skins, but you're right that there's RPGs out there with vastly more complex character creators.

I just really want options for Beast Race Tails. Length and Width sliders plus adornments.

Similar to the conversation going on in the character login screen right now - I think this would fall under the engine limitation and not something I'd expect them to throw their resources at right now - especially given the overall "vibe" on the current state of the game (from a performance POV).

Basically, there are bigger fish to fry IMO.

Thysbe · March 13

disky wrote: »

As someone who was in the beta and avoided ESO for a long time in-part because, to my eyes, it looked really awful, I've been very pleased with the direction the game has taken visually in more recent years, and hopefully that means we'll see something good coming for the character creator and character models as well.

See, and some stayed after Beta because they really liked the - you call it bland - looks. To me ESO always was a really beautiful game and thats what kept me engaged. The more recent designs feel strenuous and over trying to me.

In the end it´s a matter of taste. Changing and modernizing much of how a game feels and looks might interest new players but with the inherent risk of alienating some of the existing playerbase who liked it before.