Can/will they improve the character creator?
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whitecrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Did they ever do anything about lighting issues? When I created my character in 2016, I thought I was giving her silvery-blue hair, but it turned out that was just because the room lighting was bluish. What I got was grey hair. She is not meant to be old! I guess I am used to it by now, but I would change it to something else if I could (without paying real money).2 -
ghastley✭✭✭✭✭
✭The things I missed most, coming from Skyrim, was the lack of choice for facial features. Eyes, nose, mouth all have much less variety in ESO, which means that one face looks like any other, for a given race, no matter how you adjust the sliders.
The question of whether those could be made into optional replacers does not have a clear answer, but I do wonder why it did not work that way originally.4 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Did they ever do anything about lighting issues? When I created my character in 2016, I thought I was giving her silvery-blue hair, but it turned out that was just because the room lighting was bluish. What I got was grey hair. She is not meant to be old! I guess I am used to it by now, but I would change it to something else if I could (without paying real money).
This is my biggest complaint about the Character Creator after the randomized voice sampler. The lighting never reflected natural, outdoor lighting so you always ended up with something looking weird under "normal" conditions.2 -
ThoraxtheDark✭✭✭✭I do not want my girls' looks changed. The last couple of times that happened, I never played those games again, because my girls were ruined, no longer the characters I'd spent a lot of time on.
I do not want to see character model changes EVER.
Speak for yourself !
Try looking at a different game and doing some comparing .
I find eso heads are so nervous about looking at other games . For good reason! Eso is falling behindEdited by ThoraxtheDark on March 19, 2025 12:51PM4 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »
Speak for yourself !
Try looking at a different game and doing some comparing .
I find eso heads are so nervous about looking at other games . For good reason! Eso is falling behind
Speak for yourself.
Games have artstyles. ESO’s is established, and we don’t need to change one part because newer games do things differently. After all, show of hands who doesn’t think Ithelia looked ‘off’ in some way - she was done in a slightly different artstyle than ESO characters and as a result she stood out like a sore thumb.
Sure the characters aren’t 8K RTX models, but neither is the rest of the world. Besides, are we really assuming that every ESO player can handle the graphical intensity that requires? Especially if we already have complaints about lag??
If I need hyperrealistic graphics, I can play a different game that has them. Or go outside — I hear those graphics are also really good too.
Also I can’t imagine that graphics alone make for a compelling game either. After all, if it was all only about graphics, then why is literally one of the biggest games made entirely of pixels and blocks? Why is Runescape still around? Why does every other indie game use 16-bit art?
Match our characters with the world, and they do. Don’t change our characters to no longer fit in this world because someone can’t handle playing a game that doesn’t cause their new 5090 to catch fire.10 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »
Speak for yourself !
Try looking at a different game and doing some comparing .
I find eso heads are so nervous about looking at other games . For good reason! Eso is falling behind
TES is the only game universe I play in. That's not going to change. Screw up my girls and I'll go back to Skyrim.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »
Speak for yourself !
Try looking at a different game and doing some comparing .
I find eso heads are so nervous about looking at other games . For good reason! Eso is falling behind
It doesn't matter what other games do.
Should games that are pixelated change their graphics because newer games have hyper realistic graphics?
I have seen other games, and I don't find ESO to be all that far behind.
Beyond that, Not everyone even likes hyperrealistic graphics (otherwise those pixel games wouldn't be worth making). Not everyone wants things to be super realistic so that you can see every pore on the face of the character and every little imperfection.
Not everyone can handle those graphics on the devices they are playing the game on.
It is all a matter of taste.4 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭
TES is the only game universe I play in. That's not going to change. Screw up my girls and I'll go back to Skyrim.
Download the Dragon's Dogma 2 "Free Character Creator" and you will understand what we are talking about.
So much more diversity. So much more control. Much more ability to create ugly/unique and also more beautiful characters.2 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »
Download the Dragon's Dogma 2 "Free Character Creator" and you will understand what we are talking about.
So much more diversity. So much more control. Much more ability to create ugly/unique and also more beautiful characters.
I mean, control and diversity is completely different from changing existing characters.
Numerous people have said they wouldn't be upset with more options, they just don't want existing characters changed.7 -
Credible_Joe✭✭✭✭JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »
I mean, control and diversity is completely different from changing existing characters.
Numerous people have said they wouldn't be upset with more options, they just don't want existing characters changed.
This is the same pushback I got when I suggested expanding slider limits. And I agree that no solution that affects our current characters' faces and bodies is viable.
That can only be speculated on, though. We don't know how feasible it is to preserve legacy appearance settings when making changes to the character creator. The opposite assumption is just as likely, in that the tool that sets appearance settings isn't married to the values themselves. So only initiating an appearance change would update anything.
And if that were the case, it would also be feasible to keep the legacy creator available to players so adjustments could still be made on legacy characters without having to re-sculpt features and body proportions.
Again. While all of this is black-boxed, we can only speculate. I'd prefer having expanded slider limits so outlier characters can be made outside the averages set by race. But if implementing that borks everyone's characters, the whole prospect is a non-starter.Thank you for coming to my T E D talk1 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭Credible_Joe wrote: »
This is the same pushback I got when I suggested expanding slider limits. And I agree that no solution that affects our current characters' faces and bodies is viable.
That can only be speculated on, though. We don't know how feasible it is to preserve legacy appearance settings when making changes to the character creator. The opposite assumption is just as likely, in that the tool that sets appearance settings isn't married to the values themselves. So only initiating an appearance change would update anything.
And if that were the case, it would also be feasible to keep the legacy creator available to players so adjustments could still be made on legacy characters without having to re-sculpt features and body proportions.
Again. While all of this is black-boxed, we can only speculate. I'd prefer having expanded slider limits so outlier characters can be made outside the averages set by race. But if implementing that borks everyone's characters, the whole prospect is a non-starter.
ESO character faces are samey and ugly. The best ones come out looking like an elven Kardashian matron, and they all have the same look.
The truth, the reality, is that if a new system is presented, 99% of people would happily migrate. Of course there will always be sour grapes.
I think if they changed, they should allow people to keep the old face (but not adjust it). It would be comical, people holding on to the old look despite a much better option.
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Credible_Joe✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »
ESO character faces are samey and ugly. The best ones come out looking like an elven Kardashian matron, and they all have the same look.
The truth, the reality, is that if a new system is presented, 99% of people would happily migrate. Of course there will always be sour grapes.
I think if they changed, they should allow people to keep the old face (but not adjust it). It would be comical, people holding on to the old look despite a much better option.
someone isn't using the age slider
edit - Although, to be fair, most people don't, leading to model-face being pretty over-represented in the player pop. But face variety is not impossible with the present system, and most of us are quite satisfied with what we put together.
Adding more blemish options (on a SEPARATE channel from adornments and markings) would go a long way towards face variety.Edited by Credible_Joe on March 19, 2025 3:14PMThank you for coming to my T E D talk1 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »
Download the Dragon's Dogma 2 "Free Character Creator" and you will understand what we are talking about.
So much more diversity. So much more control. Much more ability to create ugly/unique and also more beautiful characters.
I've used that character creator and no I still don't agree with you. It's a different game, a very new one too, not a game that is over 10 years old. I do like how that CC lets you change lightning, which has been a requested thing for ESO for many years because the lightning there in the CC is always terrible, but everything else it has also doesn't work. That much detail and sliders just doesn't work for ESO's engine.
I personally also didn't find it that good at its core. Yes there is sliders for changing so many small things, but many of those you barely know what they change. Like it can be too much of a good thing sometimes and you just want to play the game, not figuring out if slider #73 is changing the width of your cheekbone or cheekflesh a millimeter. I also found the colour swaps awfully shown and had to get up in my screen and stare for minutres trying see the difference between dark is-it-blue-or-green-or-bluegreen #15 and #34.
It also had very lacking hair and beards. For such an extensive character creator to have such lacking hair and beard options is silly. Who cares how much I can change my nose when there's barely any hair options. I couldn't even remake my pawn from the first game because the right hair didn't exist.
Again I also say, ESO is a 10 year old MMO with an engine and data that can't handle that and it doesn't need to either, because they are different games in many ways.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!4 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin Haven't this thread gone on with too much pointless back and forth to be locked yet?[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!4 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭This thread is still going? This just in, ESO players still chronically unable to accept that other game's graphics are only relevant to that game's graphics. I've been playing Monster Hunter Rise, Vampire Survivors and even looking at Dwarf Fortress. None of those games have similar graphics in the slightest. GOOD. If all you care about is graphics, you don't actually care about the gameplay. So go play something you actually find fun.4 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭We found the "pain point" that no one was willing to report.
I think this is where they should look next.0 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »We found the "pain point" that no one was willing to report.
I think this is where they should look next.
That you suggest this is an important pain point is ridiculous. The majority does not agree, in fact many would be opposed, and there are plenty of things that are way more in need of being looked at than trying turn ESO into a different game.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!6 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »We found the "pain point" that no one was willing to report.
I think this is where they should look next.
We found your pain point and you proceeded to call everyone who disagreed with you Barbies or some such nonsense.7 -
ZOS_KrakenadminWe have noticed some unnecessary back and forth. Please remain polite to your fellow community members and keep the thread on topic.2 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_Kraken wrote: »We have noticed some unnecessary back and forth. Please remain polite to your fellow community members and keep the thread on topic.
Thank you for keeping the topic open.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »
Download the Dragon's Dogma 2 "Free Character Creator" and you will understand what we are talking about.
So much more diversity. So much more control. Much more ability to create ugly/unique and also more beautiful characters.
I don't care about other games or what they do. I'm happy with my girls as they are. That's not going to change.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
Hollyniss✭✭✭The reason people don't want changes are because they like their characters as they are. They've been playing with them for 10 years. People get quite attached to their characters.
However, they wouldn't mind having more options as long as their characters remain untouched. I know I'd enjoy more options in character creation. More variety. If they can add more options (within reason) or even overhaul character creation WITHOUT affecting current characters, that'd be amazing!
I'd like too if they'd unlock hair colors, add more freckle options (and make it separate from tattoos and scars), more eye color options (with blind or oracle eyes being separate from facial hair), tail length options for the beast races, have our crown store items that we purchased available in creation, actual muscle definition, fur color & markings for Khajiit, scales colors & patterns for Argonians, more hairstyles (fins, feathers, & horns for Argonians), ect.
Maybe have an option to dye our hair at a station (hair dye would be SEPARATE from clothing/armor dye).
Bonus; more control over our character's appearance (where we can alter their facial structure and features in more detail, give us greater depth), more subrace options for the beast races (Argonian and Khajiit). But again WITHOUT affecting current characters!
If none of the above can be done without affecting current characters, then no.
Edited by Hollyniss on March 19, 2025 6:57PM2 -
Razmirra✭✭✭I just want to create a couple Khajiit using some of the furstocks or even the Naga Argonians without having to describe they are bigger or smaller..1 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭✭Credible_Joe wrote: »
This is the same pushback I got when I suggested expanding slider limits. And I agree that no solution that affects our current characters' faces and bodies is viable.
That can only be speculated on, though. We don't know how feasible it is to preserve legacy appearance settings when making changes to the character creator. The opposite assumption is just as likely, in that the tool that sets appearance settings isn't married to the values themselves. So only initiating an appearance change would update anything.
And if that were the case, it would also be feasible to keep the legacy creator available to players so adjustments could still be made on legacy characters without having to re-sculpt features and body proportions.
Again. While all of this is black-boxed, we can only speculate. I'd prefer having expanded slider limits so outlier characters can be made outside the averages set by race. But if implementing that borks everyone's characters, the whole prospect is a non-starter.
Yeah, I do not know if it is possible to expand the slider's options without affecting the existing characters.
One of the issues that a lot of people simply don't get when they want things like this that affects other people's characters/items, is that in many cases, people join games because they like the artstyle *at the time they join the game*, they spend time, effort, and sometimes money getting their characters to look the way they want them, in the outfits they want.
In cases like ESO, where it is a 10 year old game, some people have characters that are 10 years old that they have spent long hours using. They might have spent long hours finetuning the characters to get them to look the way they want.
So, it is natural that people who are playing the game don't want the game's existing artwork changed in a way that affects the content they either spend a long time staring at or spent a long time (and money) making look exactly the way they want it to look.
It isn't just this game, I have seen so many other games where people want old artwork to be abolished from the site, because they don't consider it 'fits in with the new artwork' and they can't understand why there is pushback from players who joined the site because of that artwork. From players who create characters, using that artwork. As an example, a site I play, which is a dragon breeding pet sim type, expanded their color wheel (the colors that can appear on dragons), and in doing so, created a new system of how the images were drawn and colored. This lead to some colors being changed, with one color, seafoam, a greenish color, being changed slightly. There are people still upset about that change. People quit over that single change. That change happened in 2016. Yes, there are still people upset at the change 10 years after it was changed. Because it changed dragons they had worked hard on, so that outfits no longer matched, they no longer liked the way the color showed up on their screens and so on.
I personally would love a ton more options, not just at character creation, but also with regards to adornments and the like, so that there is much more customization allowed. But, as you said, it might not be feasible, or it might be straight up impossible, to modify the character creation without affecting existing characters.3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think there is some validity to the idea that the character creator could use a refresh. I know that being a very old game with outdated graphics is something that holds this game back from getting new players. At the same time though, care must be taken not to alienate older players by altering their characters too drastically. People who play this game (mostly) either don't care about the art or actually do like the art style. And changing it to make it better may cause those players to quit.
It's a tricky balance.1 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »I think there is some validity to the idea that the character creator could use a refresh. I know that being a very old game with outdated graphics is something that holds this game back from getting new players. At the same time though, care must be taken not to alienate older players by altering their characters too drastically. People who play this game (mostly) either don't care about the art or actually do like the art style. And changing it to make it better may cause those players to quit.
It's a tricky balance.
One of the issues is that 'better' can be subjective at times.
If it were something where they slightly increased polygon count, and updated the textures to be more detailed, but kept them essentially the same, that could be considered 'better'.
But, too many times, I have had games 'update' the art, and they basically completely changed it. One game I played, I quit, because the art style before was relatively realistic, and after it was full of the usual trope of big busted mostly naked women, while all the men were extremely ugly. I had played it because it *didn't* have that issue before.
So, that is another reason that I feel things like this get pushback, because people who have experienced such things don't necessarily have good experiences with updates actually being updates and not full blown changes.
Take the example from this thread, where they updated the characters in a different game. They made the texture more detailed, but in the process made the character look older. While that is a relatively minor change, it is still something that not everyone wants for their characters.
I also am not really sure that it is actually the graphics that is holding the game back from getting new players. Maybe if they are used to and only like super hyper realistic graphics, but I really feel that most gamers are more likely to overlook graphics in favor of gameplay. Unless, of course, the graphics were super horrible, which ESO's aren't.4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »- snipped for brevity-
So, that is another reason that I feel things like this get pushback, because people who have experienced such things don't necessarily have good experiences with updates actually being updates and not full blown changes.
This is a good point, although I feel part of that is that people become more nitpicky when they know a change has occurred vs if they are brand new to a game and see things with a fresh eye. New players certainly look for graphics. I feel like they'll overlook them if a game is particularly good, but most games a new player is going to want to look into are ones with updated graphics. These don't necessarily have be hyper realistic, but nobody is going back to play mid games with decent graphics for the most part. The ones that have long lasting appeal ares ones that really good to great games. I think ESO does get a pass on this a bit on reputation alone, but I think the outdated looks are hurting it. Why ESO when New World is right there and looks better, visually, for example. And yeah, I know looks better is subjective. But there are things like more detailed textures that are a bit less subjective. Although, I know that can be as well. The example of this page of the "older character" for example, seems to be based on giving her laugh lines (and bags under her eyes) like a real woman may have. Some people feel this aged her and some feel it just made her a bit more realistic. Its a little of both IMOEdited by spartaxoxo on March 19, 2025 10:07PM1 -
Spacefish2323✭✭✭Honestly the character models hold up really well, imo, despite being 10 years old. I consider it a strength in the game's column.
Personally would rather they not roll the dice to see how it rolls out. I've seen graphic updates that truly improved the models (Asheron's Call, DAOC, many single player games) as much as I've seen them be butchered (WoW, New World, and for example even though Oblivion is a whole generation of tech ahead of Morrowind the faces in that game were basically a war crime compared to the predecessor).1 -
Wereswan✭✭✭Did they ever do anything about lighting issues? When I created my character in 2016, I thought I was giving her silvery-blue hair, but it turned out that was just because the room lighting was bluish. What I got was grey hair. She is not meant to be old! I guess I am used to it by now, but I would change it to something else if I could (without paying real money).
Most games I've played with customizable characters have this same issue, where what you see during character creation is not necessarily what you get upon actually loading in. I probably made and deleted a dozen or so characters in the process of creating my existing ESO roster. One thing that would be nice to have, since every appearance change costs money, would be a system where we could save the previous appearance and revert it if we decide the changed version isn't an improvement, or otherwise somehow see it under in-game lighting conditions before committing to the change. (GTA:O, for instance, pops up a "do you wish to keep these changes?" prompt the next time you launch the game after changing your appearance, and takes you back to the character creator if you indicate you don't.)0 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭✭Spacefish2323 wrote: »Honestly the character models hold up really well, imo, despite being 10 years old. I consider it a strength in the game's column.
Personally would rather they not roll the dice to see how it rolls out. I've seen graphic updates that truly improved the models (Asheron's Call, DAOC, many single player games) as much as I've seen them be butchered (WoW, New World, and for example even though Oblivion is a whole generation of tech ahead of Morrowind the faces in that game were basically a war crime compared to the predecessor).
You just unlocked that memory of why I played a Khajiit for the first time in Oblivion. I had forgotten that. I think I had blocked it from my memory...
Anyway, re: outdated graphics.
I know that players do look for graphics when they start new games, I just don't feel that most players are going to turn down a good game with okay graphics, just as I don't think they are going to play a horrible game with fantastic graphics.
So, I feel that a better thing to look at, rather than something that has a very good chance of turning out wrong, updating characters and potentially changing years old characters, it would probably be better for player retention and getting new players to look at the gameplay itself.
Maybe it is just me, but I would far prefer to play a good-great game with mid graphics, than I would to play a game that the gameplay sucked, even though the graphics were state of the art.2