Can/will they improve the character creator?

kargen27

I wouldn't mind seeing the sliders go a little farther each way when creating a new character. They would need to give us another character slot for me to take advantage though as I don't want to change the appearance of my characters. Personally I feel if the characters looking a bit outdated is a concern for a new player they probably wouldn't last long anyway as they match the look of the overall game. Beyond that the game still stands as one of the most solid MMOs available even with the older looking graphics.
And for no reason at all an image of my main. The one it the tux.

ImmortalCX

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

tomofhyrule

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

Form everything you’ve said in this thread and others, I feel that this is not the game for you.

ESO struggled in its early days. It’s precisely because they pivoted to cater to the hardcore RPG players who are very into lore and character (you know, the fans of the game series from which this is from…) that the game started to thrive. But yes, that means the “typical MMO I-only-play-for-rewards-and-screw-the-story” people got left in the dust.

Also trying to reduce people to “Barbie Dreamhouse” just because their playstyle is different than yours is not going to win you any fans either. And I can assure you that there are a fair number of people who can knock out trifectas like it’s nothing and will spend hours making sure their character looks good while doing so.

It’s the RP and Character Creation and Housing communities that are carrying this game. Full stop. We pay the subs, we pay for Crowns, we want this game to succeed because we like having our world. Having someone come in — someone who admits they can’t even be bothered to spend a cent of their own money to keep the servers online — and tell us that we’re the problem is… a choice.

Hollyniss

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

That literally makes no sense. So, you know nothing about the races because you think they all look the same? The only races that can be hard to tell apart are some of the human races (like someone else mentioned the Bretons and Imperials can sometimes be hard to tell apart). The elves ALL look different. I can easily tell Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer, and Orsimer apart unless they're wearing helms or certain skins (for the first three, Orcs you can always tell lol). If you like the way the races are in WoW, then I guess you can always go back to it. This is Elder Scrolls. The art and lore have ALWAYS been different. Elder Scrolls has been trying to go for realism when it comes to the looks and aesthetics.

I agree there needs to be more options and better textures, but that's all...
No racial idle animations, no hulk or shrek Orcs...just NO.
Bashing people for disagreeing with you (for good reason) is not cool. Think the devs should lock this thread...

ESO_player123

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I do not think you have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I'm sure people will be happy to see additional options in the character creator (adornments, markings, nose shapes and such), wider sliders for body types, more customization via in game rewards. What many people do not want is to log in one day and find out that their character (that they spent a lot of time creating) looks unrecognizable. So, adding options is a yay, taking away is a nay.

It has nothing to do with crown store. People get attached to the looks of their characters, some even have backstories for them (I personally do not, but I know that it's important for some players).

As for what other games do, current pseudo realistic models is what I personally like about ESO. I definitely do not want to see cartoonish WoW models or anime like FF14 models make their way into ESO.

ImmortalCX

Hollyniss wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

That literally makes no sense. So, you know nothing about the races because you think they all look the same? The only races that can be hard to tell apart are some of the human races (like someone else mentioned the Bretons and Imperials can sometimes be hard to tell apart). The elves ALL look different. I can easily tell Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer, and Orsimer apart unless they're wearing helms or certain skins (for the first three, Orcs you can always tell lol). If you like the way the races are in WoW, then I guess you can always go back to it. This is Elder Scrolls. The art and lore have ALWAYS been different. Elder Scrolls has been trying to go for realism when it comes to the looks and aesthetics.

I agree there needs to be more options and better textures, but that's all...
No racial idle animations, no hulk or shrek Orcs...just NO.
Bashing people for disagreeing with you (for good reason) is not cool. Think the devs should lock this thread...

You began with personal attacks. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle is a real thing. People who primarily care about house furnishing and cosmetics keep the servers running.

Estin

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I feel like you should know that the players you claim to play barbie more than likely haven't spent a cent on this game outside of the latest expansion and the sub fee because a good chunk (I want to say 80-90%) of the game's cosmetics are all earnable in game through daily quests, randomly in the overworld, event tickets, and achievements for doing hard content. Outside some gaudy skins, costumes, and head adornments, the only cosmetics are mounts. And with the introduction to seals of endeavors and now golden pursuits, players can get those store only cosmetics for free. The only thing that can't be bought for free are houses and some select furnishings, and I doubt there's a high percentage of players buying those because the majority of furnishings you see in houses are all earned in game.

When it comes to new player first impressions of this game, the complaint is not how "samey" and "realistic" the characters models are, but instead the combat being too easy and lacking weight, something that is actually going to be attempted to be fixed soon.

ImmortalCX

ESO_player123 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I do not think you have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I'm sure people will be happy to see additional options in the character creator (adornments, markings, nose shapes and such), wider sliders for body types, more customization via in game rewards. What many people do not want is to log in one day and find out that their character (that they spent a lot of time creating) looks unrecognizable. So, adding options is a yay, taking away is a nay.

It has nothing to do with crown store. People get attached to the looks of their characters, some even have backstories for them (I personally do not, but I know that it's important for some players).

As for what other games do, current pseudo realistic models is what I personally like about ESO. I definitely do not want to see cartoonish WoW models or anime like FF14 models make their way into ESO.

I suggested a parallel system of cosmetics, with race specific animations that can be replaced with other personalities.

Something more in line with the standards of todays games. In retrospect, the lack of default personality (mannequin) is likely intentional to sell personalities. I am shocked that people would not want to be given something for free, but I also suspect that the Barbie Dreamhouse player's don't want other players running around with tree trunk arms, the same way I didn't like that Orc in a wedding dress I saw frequently during my Greymoor questing.

I would rather races be identifyable by their traits and animations than having a male orc running around in a wedding dress. The downside of a microtransaction game.

thejadefalcon

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races.

Sure. If you have absolutely no investment in the universe and want to treat it like every other generic game out there. People who are fans of Elder Scrolls are the reason this game survived the rough launch. You, very clearly, have no interest in the world. That's why we're annoyed at your suggestion. Because, at the core of your argument, you want to play World of Warcraft. So go do that and let ESO be ESO. Different games are allowed to exist.

spartaxoxo

I wouldn't mind more free personalities. But, I wouldn't want a personality based on race as a default. I also don't see what they has to do with updates to the character creator. We don't pick personality as character creation. It's a collectible you equip in this game. So, it makes more sense to leave it that way.

I wouldn't be opposed to more options in the character creator including new textures. They can make it like body type 1 vs body type 2 and let people make their own decisions so that older characters aren't changed. They could give out 3 free race change tokens so people can use it to update their looks if they prefer the newer looks.

ESO_player123

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

I care about systems. I care about itemization. I care about progression. I care about rewards.


Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races. Part of that reason is because every PC looks nearly identical. Underneath all the technicolor microtransaction you can't tell one from race from another.

I am against microtransactions when they dominate a game. The Barbie Dreamhouse playstyle epitomizes what ESO has become. I think its cool when it subsides the rest of us and keeps the servers going. But when the people engaged in that playstyle resist changes that could potentially grow the playerbase, that is when its problematic.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

This thread has shown a ton of resistance to suggestions to improve the character models. (All of my suggestions are based on what is "state of the art" in other games.) I think that is also a factual statement.

So there is a group of players who I have dubbed "Barbie Dreamhouse" players who are obviously attached to their purchases and cosmetic decisions, (who probably pay more than people in my category), yet who may also lead to the demise of the game if they threaten to regequit if the character models are updated. That is why the Barbie Dreamhouse players are so vocal here. They are screaming, "Keep your hands off my microtransaction cosmetics!"

I think I have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I do not think you have an accurate understanding of the situation.

I'm sure people will be happy to see additional options in the character creator (adornments, markings, nose shapes and such), wider sliders for body types, more customization via in game rewards. What many people do not want is to log in one day and find out that their character (that they spent a lot of time creating) looks unrecognizable. So, adding options is a yay, taking away is a nay.

It has nothing to do with crown store. People get attached to the looks of their characters, some even have backstories for them (I personally do not, but I know that it's important for some players).

As for what other games do, current pseudo realistic models is what I personally like about ESO. I definitely do not want to see cartoonish WoW models or anime like FF14 models make their way into ESO.

I suggested a parallel system of cosmetics, with race specific animations that can be replaced with other personalities.

Something more in line with the standards of todays games. In retrospect, the lack of default personality (mannequin) is likely intentional to sell personalities. I am shocked that people would not want to be given something for free, but I also suspect that the Barbie Dreamhouse player's don't want other players running around with tree trunk arms, the same way I didn't like that Orc in a wedding dress I saw frequently during my Greymoor questing.

I would rather races be identifyable by their traits and animations than having a male orc running around in a wedding dress. The downside of a microtransaction game.

How is it a downside of a microtransaction game? I can put, for example, Passion Dancer's Attire (which was obtainable from in game event and not crown store) on my orc to achieve a similar effect (a dress on a male character).

kargen27

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

You say you have a history with the game, but admit you don't know about the lore, in spite of declaring yourself the arbiter of what appearence and poses are appropriate for each race. You dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as "playing barbie dress up" and not being real 'experienced' gamers like you, but you're only able to articulate your point as "make it look like WoW because that's what I'm used to".

Honestly you'd be more likely to get support for your idea if you weren't so condescending about it, and tried to understand that different art styles and especially lore are valid and different people will genuinely like different things. At the moment it comes across as if you have very little experience with MMOs or RPGs outside the one game and you're getting thrown off by things being different.

Edit: Also if you're experience with ESO is from when it launched you might remember that the races and character creator were the same before the game had any microtransactions, and the decision on the art style was made when they were intending to make a 100% subscription based game with no microtransactions or additional costs, before they discovered there wasn't enough demand for that. I know "it sucks because of monetisation" seems like a safe, easy win when complaining about any game, but in this case it makes no sense which makes it a pretty weak argument.

Anyone who comes to ESO from any other modern RPG will immediately see the dated character models and base their decision to play based on that. I think that is a factual statement.

No that is an opinion and not one backed by a few polls I found online. The number one thing players look for when considering a new MMO is immersion in the polls I saw. Those polls could be biased based on the site they came from but I think it is safe to say your statement is a long way from being anything other than opinion.

ImmortalCX

thejadefalcon wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Its possible to play a game for 2500 hours and not know lore or details of different races.

Sure. If you have absolutely no investment in the universe and want to treat it like every other generic game out there. People who are fans of Elder Scrolls are the reason this game survived the rough launch. You, very clearly, have no interest in the world. That's why we're annoyed at your suggestion. Because, at the core of your argument, you want to play World of Warcraft. So go do that and let ESO be ESO. Different games are allowed to exist.

I played every expansion like a single player ES game, and then when that was done I would farm, build gear sets, run dungeons, pvp, etc. I've done that for 2500 hours, but couldn't really tell you much about the different races, beyond the quests I ran in their zones.

The effect in 2016(?) when I played through Orsinium was "the graphics are so much better than WOW", but then over time the world felt less epic and more generic. Voice acted quests and better graphics made it a competitive product, but by today's standards the graphics have fallen behind, most notably the character models.

I just learned there aren't any more major expansions planned, which means my major pattern of playing has been disrupted. I still have two major expanions/zones to experience and then I guess that is it. Its pretty clear to me that they are going to ride it out with their microtransaction cosmetic strategy until they have to turn off the servers. Its a shame because the sheer volume of content with a new coat of paint could really give it some longevity.

Someone was complaining about personal attacks and I agree about that. If you attack someone enough the thread goes off the rails and then it gets deleted. That how dissenting opinions are suppressed. I guess the moderators have clocked out so they will probably clean this up tomorrow.

tomofhyrule

I will also say that the game did used to have a more cartoonish WoW-esque style. Some of the early alpha screenshots look a lot more like WoW and less like an Elder Scrolls game... but it does give the "durr Orcs are big and dumb" vibe that some people seem to want.







These shots are from 2012. I think a lot of us in this thread are very happy the artstyle changed to something more familiar to TES players. But of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

16BitForestCat

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If ESO tried to do an undead race, they would all be upright, stiff as a board, and have the same body dimensions as a human, but with different skin textures, that players would eventually cover with skins they purchased so they didn't look undead, but instead like a barbie doll. Then someone would apply the duchess or seductress personality to them and they would look like every other character running those personality with the same paid skins.

The people playing Barbie seem to be in control. The default for every race is a mannequin with sliders that fall well within the bounds of normal human expression. Most people who are buying cosmetics seem to be creating barbie dolls.

This shows the hand being played, right here. Your problem isn't the game. Your problem is that other players are allowed to design their characters in ways you don't like.

kargen27

16BitForestCat wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If ESO tried to do an undead race, they would all be upright, stiff as a board, and have the same body dimensions as a human, but with different skin textures, that players would eventually cover with skins they purchased so they didn't look undead, but instead like a barbie doll. Then someone would apply the duchess or seductress personality to them and they would look like every other character running those personality with the same paid skins.

The people playing Barbie seem to be in control. The default for every race is a mannequin with sliders that fall well within the bounds of normal human expression. Most people who are buying cosmetics seem to be creating barbie dolls.

This shows the hand being played, right here. Your problem isn't the game. Your problem is that other players are allowed to design their characters in ways you don't like.

Kind of funny I wanted my first Necromancer character to look as unlike as possible what I thought a Necromancer would look like. So I tried to make him look like a Ken doll. It was trickier than I thought. Settled on this. Chin isn't quite right and no dimples but I tried.

16BitForestCat

kargen27 wrote: »

Kind of funny I wanted my first Necromancer character to look as unlike as possible what I thought a Necromancer would look like. So I tried to make him look like a Ken doll. It was trickier than I thought. Settled on this. Chin isn't quite right and no dimples but I tried.

I kinda like the idea of a bunch of Necromancers running around looking like supermodels and idols. Great pro-Necro PR campaign! Who says you can't look your best while controlling the decaying dead to prey upon your enemies?

(Enemies may include the guy who cut you off in traffic on your way to the hairdresser before giving a speech to the Elder Council because you're a supermodel and also Tamriel's foremost international trade strategy expert. Enemies may also include your frenemy who tricked you into chipping the nails you just got done so you're too embarrassed to meet your crush you were supposed to go fighting bandits with. Who says the high drama of Barbie is only for playing dress-up in ESO?)

JemadarofCaerSalis

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I agree that it would be helpful for the OP to give examples of the range of options they want, because (as this thread already shows) a lot of people think you can get very different looking characters from the current character creator, so this sounds like a redundant request.

(Also bear in mind ESO is intended to look more realistic than many MMOs so you're not going to get big exaggerated cartoon features here.)

I also agree that if more options are added it needs to be in a way that doesn't change existing characters, because I'm not adverse to new options but I like how my current characters look and don't want them all changed, even if someone else considers it an "upgrade".

Each race should have its own passive movements and mannerisms. An orc with " duchess" emote is not an orc. Its a duchess. An orc without a personality is just a generic humanoid with weird teeth. Each race should have default mannerisms.

I don't get this. Not every individual of a race necessarily grows up in the same culture, location, etc.

I get that a default isn't necessarily implying that every character is like that, but an orc with the duchess personality is definitely still an orc, and I don't want the game to put mannerisms on my character by default if I'm not given other free options. I would rather them be default blank.

I have many altmer characters and they all were raised in different provinces and cultures and have different mannerisms.
I have a khajiit character that was raised in imperial and argonian culture. I have an argonian who was raised in imperial culture. I have an altmer that was raised in dunmer culture.

I'm all for making a pack of 5 or so basic personalities (as in the cosmetic) be free to players though so there's fewer barbie-standing people everywhere.

But I'd rather have 5 neutral barbie-standing altmer than 5 haughty and prideful (I guess?) standing altmer when none, maybe one, of my altmer even have that personality.

Same here.

My main character is an Altmer, while a secondary character is a Dunmer. They have slightly different personalities, but are generally much the same because of their backstory (both characters were created as companions for the main character of Morrowind for my friend and I), neither were raised in typical fashion, so they don't have the typical personalities of those races.

Also? I made a warden character for the leveling up event, and I absolutely hated that everytime I stopped for a second, he started doing something. So, no, I don't want my characters to just start fidgeting and messing around just because I stopped to take a breath for a split second.

Also, it is impossible to tell someone's race just by looking at them because they are typically covered up by armor, the ones that *don't* have armor, I can usually immediately tell whether they are bosmer, dunmer, redguard, altmer, or orc. Now for the human ones, I do sometimes have difficulty, but that is because I haven't really paid attention to the differences (and do I need to spell out I can tell which ones are Khajiits and argonians?)

I am not adverse to more options, but as others have said, as long as it doesn't affect existing characters. People have put a lot of time and effort into making their characters exactly how they want them, and to have it changed and then have to spend money trying to make them look how they used to (if it is even possible) would probably mean a lot of those people will simply quit the game.

ImmortalCX

16BitForestCat wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If ESO tried to do an undead race, they would all be upright, stiff as a board, and have the same body dimensions as a human, but with different skin textures, that players would eventually cover with skins they purchased so they didn't look undead, but instead like a barbie doll. Then someone would apply the duchess or seductress personality to them and they would look like every other character running those personality with the same paid skins.

The people playing Barbie seem to be in control. The default for every race is a mannequin with sliders that fall well within the bounds of normal human expression. Most people who are buying cosmetics seem to be creating barbie dolls.

This shows the hand being played, right here. Your problem isn't the game. Your problem is that other players are allowed to design their characters in ways you don't like.

I don't care how people design their characters. I said it in an earlier post, I object when other players resist an upgrade to the character models/textures because it would undermine all the effort and crowns they spent on cosmetics.

Coming at the game with fresh eyes, its pretty obvious the character models didn't age well, and this would be one of the biggest bang for buck improvements they could make.

I think some other players said earlier that if I made a character with hulk arms it would break their immersion. I'm just looking for an improvement to the game that might attract and keep new players. That includes sliders with better range, more detailed face and body mechanics, race animations that communicate body language (that could be replaced, to eliminate all the mannequins) and diversity in the creator so that the different races had specific features that were easily identifiable.

JemadarofCaerSalis

ImmortalCX wrote: »

16BitForestCat wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If ESO tried to do an undead race, they would all be upright, stiff as a board, and have the same body dimensions as a human, but with different skin textures, that players would eventually cover with skins they purchased so they didn't look undead, but instead like a barbie doll. Then someone would apply the duchess or seductress personality to them and they would look like every other character running those personality with the same paid skins.

The people playing Barbie seem to be in control. The default for every race is a mannequin with sliders that fall well within the bounds of normal human expression. Most people who are buying cosmetics seem to be creating barbie dolls.

This shows the hand being played, right here. Your problem isn't the game. Your problem is that other players are allowed to design their characters in ways you don't like.

I don't care how people design their characters. I said it in an earlier post, I object when other players resist an upgrade to the character models/textures because it would undermine all the effort and crowns they spent on cosmetics.

Coming at the game with fresh eyes, its pretty obvious the character models didn't age well, and this would be one of the biggest bang for buck improvements they could make.

I think some other players said earlier that if I made a character with hulk arms it would break their immersion. I'm just looking for an improvement to the game that might attract and keep new players. That includes sliders with better range, more detailed face and body mechanics, race animations that communicate body language (that could be replaced, to eliminate all the mannequins) and diversity in the creator so that the different races had specific features that were easily identifiable.

My question is, are there any statistics on why a new player buys ESO but then doesn't bother to play the game?

So far, in my time on this forum and just generally playing the game etc.. I haven't seen anyone who has said that the reason they decided against playing ESO is because of the character models. I have seen some people say that they look dated, which, true, but not that it is something that makes them not want to play.

So, would updating the character creation to include new options, with the potential to ruin existing characters' looks actually be worth it? IE, would it please more people than it would drive off/anger? Would more people absolutely join if the character creation is updated?

Because, for any game, I rarely see 'character creation is too limited! I decided to not play that game!' I see more 'character creation would have been better if I had more options! but whatever!' and then they move on to the actual game. I also see more people complain about having too many options with character creation, because it makes them feel like they have to try to mess with it (instead of using the default character it gives) than about people who complain about not having more customization.

So, I honestly feel that updating character creation would do little with regards to gaining and retaining new players. Maybe one or two might decide 'hey, I can make a huge hulking character! I will now play' but I see more veteran players going 'the updated character creation changed all my characters that I spent time and energy and potentially money on getting the exact way I want them to look and now expects me to spend more money changing them back!' with a side of 'I literally cannot change my character back because the character creation won't let me' and then quitting.

Again, I am not against giving more options as long as it won't touch existing characters. Of course people are going to be upset that the characters that they spent money on are changed, especially when the change isn't necessarily a good one.

ImmortalCX

ZOS would have to pay for and run that study.

"When someone argues "has there been a study to prove it?", they are essentially employing an argument from ignorance, which is a logical fallacy that claims something is false because it hasn't been proven true, or vice versa. "


Argument from Ignorance:
This fallacy occurs when someone argues that a claim is false because there's no evidence to prove it true, or that a claim is true because there's no evidence to prove it false.
Why it's a fallacy:
The absence of evidence doesn't automatically mean something is false, and the lack of proof for a claim doesn't automatically make it true.

kargen27

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ZOS would have to pay for and run that study.

"When someone argues "has there been a study to prove it?", they are essentially employing an argument from ignorance, which is a logical fallacy that claims something is false because it hasn't been proven true, or vice versa. "


Argument from Ignorance:
This fallacy occurs when someone argues that a claim is false because there's no evidence to prove it true, or that a claim is true because there's no evidence to prove it false.
Why it's a fallacy:
The absence of evidence doesn't automatically mean something is false, and the lack of proof for a claim doesn't automatically make it true.

Polls you can easily find do not support your claim that character aesthetics is the driving force in deciding to play a game or not. You are accepting something is true at best based on hearsay. There is nothing supporting your claim and as you are asking for a significant change to the game based on your claim there really does need to be some evidence suggesting what you say is true.

BretonMage

Honestly, character design is the least problematic thing in the entire game. ESO is beautiful and its characters look great. I might be open to a slight increase in resolution, as long as the design remains the same.

The sliders are fine as they are. They are already pushing the boundaries of realism, and any extension of sliders will lead to extremely weird outcomes that would not fit in an Elder Scrolls world. Even in ESO, I have seen unrealistically big, unrealistically thin and unrealistically curvaceous characters in-game and cannot imagine anything more excessive than that.

Estin wrote: »

Not all fantasy games are the same. It depends on the art direction from the beginning. Elder Scrolls has usually always been on the side of realism when it came to how the races are portrayed compared to something like WoW where everyone has massive shoulders and arms.

Yeah this ^^^ Of all the MMOs I've seen, ESO has struck the most aesthetic balance between realism and fantasy. I wouldn't change it for the world.

Jestir

Could they add more options to some the sliders that are already there or potentially add new ones? Of course.

Should they replace things in the character creator or change it in my way that could affect any already created characters? Flat out no, the can of worms that would open up is in no way worth it

JemadarofCaerSalis

ImmortalCX wrote: »

ZOS would have to pay for and run that study.

"When someone argues "has there been a study to prove it?", they are essentially employing an argument from ignorance, which is a logical fallacy that claims something is false because it hasn't been proven true, or vice versa. "


Argument from Ignorance:
This fallacy occurs when someone argues that a claim is false because there's no evidence to prove it true, or that a claim is true because there's no evidence to prove it false.
Why it's a fallacy:
The absence of evidence doesn't automatically mean something is false, and the lack of proof for a claim doesn't automatically make it true.

I didn't ask for studies, I asked for statistics, such as polls, or you seeing people literally saying 'I would have tried ESO but I couldn't get past character creation due to how lacking it was'. I wanted to know because I wanted to know if this was actually an issue that I just hadn't seen before.

I pointed out how everytime I see someone talk about character creation in a game, whether this one or any other, I personally have never seen anyone go 'I couldn't get past the fact that this character creation was so limited, so I didn't even bother playing the game'. It is usually 'character creation could have used some more options, but whatever, I made my character and dived in!'

You seem to want to fundamentally change how ESO handles character creation and race differences, which as people have pointed out, isn't the way The Elder Scrolls works. Your proposed changes would change the game into something else entirely. To me, the premise of the thread comes across not as 'I would like further options so I can create visually distinct characters' but rather 'I dislike the fact that the races of this game are so close together, so I want to change how character creation works so that each race is visually distinct' and then getting upset when people go 'I made my characters how I wanted them to look, I don't want them to change'

You also bring up that character creation is turning people away, as the base reasoning as to why this change should be made, but you have given no evidence to support that, which is what I was asking for. Because, to make such a change to a game 10 years old, there *needs* to be evidence to support the reasoning. As I pointed out, such a change as you are proposing, both the character creation which has the potential to change how existing characters look, and the giving every race its own 'personality' idles, has the risk of chasing off veteran players, who are currently supporting the game. Your premise is that it would bring in new players, but would it? IS character creation truly the reason why people try the game and then leave? Will making such a change bring in enough new players to counter the players who might quit because their characters now look horrible to them? Or they have to spend (more) money to 'repair' the idles by buying new personalities, or character redesign tokens?

Adding options to the game is great, it gives people the ability to choose to change their characters by utilizing the options, however, changing a fundamental aspect of the game requires a very good reason.

Most people will not quit a game if players are given the option to do something (there will always be some that do, especially if it means the game is moving in a direction they no longer like). They might not like the option, but as long as they aren't forced to use it, they can typically ignore it.

However, changing aspects of the game, such as redesigning characters, and applying that to *all* characters already in existence usually has a high risk of upsetting a significant portion of the players and causing them to quit. I have quit other games over art redesigns because the art no longer looked like the game I signed up to play. I probably wouldn't quit ESO if something were to happen, but I definitely would not be happy, and would likely not play anywhere near as much as I do now.

Which, again, is why such a change has to be supported by statistics. It has to be able to bring in more people than it is going to lose.

You said that the absence of evidence doesnt' mean that something is false, which is true, but it also doesn't mean that it is true either. Especially if there is more evidence support that it is false (such as people saying they play the game anyways despite the character creation) than there is to support that it is true.

colossalvoids

Really dig Kevin's answer here, glad the team is aware that the first thing that's absolutely necessary with this is making sure there's a way for people who already have the looks they want to preserve it (obviously not talking about actual resolution or amount of polygons). I'm in the same camp of having characters I already wanted, definitely not a fan of exaggerated styles of many other fantasy games and prefer it more "low-fantasy" without "arms like trunks" some have mentioned. But some "wider" sliders would definitely do no harm in that direction, just wide enough to make a wow'esque caricature out of TES.

StormBlade512

I think they should unlock hair colours, there's no reason a Khajiit can't have red hair nor Altmer have black hair

Finedaible

Honestly, if the character creator would just use neutral, overland lighting and made the voice samples not randomized then it would already be a massive improvement.

said no one ever

why am i getting notifications for this thread that i didnt start and up until nowe i havent posted in?

spartaxoxo

said no one ever wrote: »

why am i getting notifications for this thread that i didnt start and up until nowe i havent posted in?

You most likely accidentally starred (bookmarked) it while scrolling. I have some threads like that, that I have to remove from time to time. Hit the star again to remove it.



Edit

Also if you want, you can disable notifications from bookmarked threads in the future in your profile settings. I'm on mobile so I access my profile settings by switching to desktop view.