Sorcerer disease spreading and other problems

Wallar333
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This game desperately needs to do something with sorcs, PVP is dying in this game cos of few other things too, but THIS is the main problem. Like 80% of endgame players are playing sorcs, well anyone can wonder WHY.
Any new players will run away from this game just witnessing one of these immortal sorc fights. Funny thing is, that mostly those who play sorcs are crying about nightblades and dragon knights, while sorc is only class that definitely should be nerfed. Dragon knights are rather annoying than OP, while nightblades which should be best in 1v1 combat just suck cos they have none dmg shields and not enough heals, while also they have to use mundus/sets/glyphs to have some sustain in pvp.
To mention magsorcs crazy sustain with their skills, while using mag for infinite shields while dodging infinitely with stamina. Whats to point in such PVP ? magsorc have everyhing now, if using right sets, they are literally immortal in even 1v3, especially cos of streak, which is actually the most annoying and OP spell in the game. Escape, damage, stun and its undodgable, you cant be serious about this spell, NONE other class have anything like this.
Since magsorcs obviously using staffs they are using elemental susceptibility skill from destro skill line, which is FREE of cost, while also having normal attack buffs, so they can save incredible amount of rss just using normal attacks and elem. sus. from far away. This skill is issue on its own, cos its much better than for example nighblades mark target, which is completely useless in ANY scenario.
How PVP looks right now is simple, even if ganking sorcs with NB, scenario is like: NB jump from invis on sorc, gets him to maybe 50% if even (depends on builds) sorc dodges, NB cant do anything while sorc is dodging, between dodges sorc takes 1 000 000 000 dmg shields on him, turns uses streak on NB, throw all his **** on him, NB is dead or almost dead, if still lives he starts running away, sorc uses another sreak, NB is dead, gank over. THIS is 80% of cases with sorcs, and NO, im not playing this game for a week, this is actually a problem in pvp. Sorc with all his dmg and sustain, SHOULD NOT be as tanky as it is, with so many dmg shields. If ill switch my build to sorc, i can do the same, but its like cheating to me, using like BUGs to have advantage.
In BGs this is an issue, but in cyrodiil its a total disease, a group of one DK and two sorcs crosshealing, or even better one arcanist spamming shields/heals is unkillable, even 3v10, both sides spamming milions of spells and no one dies. Other classes are almost unplayable in PVP, even with meta builds, magsorc will melt any other class in 1v1 no matter what, if you put two best players in the game in a duel, one playing sorc, the other one playing literally anything else, its 99% win for the one with sorc.

1. Infinite shields - similar to DKs, but still much more annoying cos of high sorc dmg.
2. Incredibly crazy streak spell which shouldnt be in the game at all.
3. RSS sustain, with tri stat potions and right build makes sorcs literally unkillable, while DK is only class coming close to it.
4. Haunting curse - this annoying noob spell dont even need to be described, especially when it stays on you even after death.
5. Too many undodgable spells and other source DMG.

So, lets compare to NB for example, than everyone is crying about for years
2. NO SHIELDS AT ALL
3. Supposed to be duelant/ganker with high burst damage - now in PVE content prob even plate armor arcanist can do more dmg (just kidding, its actually good still, but cant be compared to for example sorc still). In pvp NBs SINGLE target spells are sometimes EVEN weaker than other classes AoEs, which is crazy but ok.
4. NB is prob hardest class to play in the game, cos its useless as tank, and weak as a healer, while lack enough dmg/debuffs to be a DD in pvp. Only thing NB is still strong at, is when execute some low HP targets, in normal fight its almost useless, in comparison to sorcerer its a JOKE literally, no matter build/spells anything.
5. Mark target which is supposed to be one of the best spells, is useless completely. It shows your target that hes gonna be targeted, which sucks, especially if you want to gank someone, wich is prob something that this class is supposed to be good at. It gives no dmg/debuffs nothing, when you kill enemy you heal to full, wuah, incredibly usefull rly.
6. No AoE dmg, wouldnt be actually a problem, if SINGLE target spells will be stronger.

Theres literally no other problem, im not even saying to boost NB in any way, keep it as it is, but sorcs needs to be changed. Now too many ppl playing this class, cos it can go like GOD mode, which is destroying any fun of pvp gameplay. I can already see those comments of those like 80% of pvp community here playing this class exactly for those reasons crying that sorc is still weak and it needs boost not nerf, while saying **** about skill issue. Well, if you think that its SKILL running around as sorc, killing ppl, then i pity, you, cos its like using cheats, in this case, its using a HOLE in the game to have advantage.

And if youre wondering, im playing build fully buffed 25k res. front bar, 28k backbar with pariah jew/wep. 25k HP, around 15k pen, around 2k mag/stam sustain, 5400 wep dmg, 32% crit chance. Build im using is best you can put on NB, i can kill other classes in 80% cases, but against sorcs, its like 80% to loose, they either drain me out of rss with their infinite shields, or just run away from me using streak buffing/healing to full and taking dmg shields for at least half a bar, while im still taking ton of dmg from status effects and dots.

Other classes are more less equal now, even DKs while they are second in pvp right after sorcs, they are still OK, but sorcs should be dealt with somehow. Most ppl in this game not even playing pvp at all, and like 70% of those who do, doing so only for daily rewards, im one of such ppl, cos this pvp mechanics is nonsense, and im old player with hundreds of hours in-game, i cant even imagine someone new who dont understand this game yet, to play pvp, he would literally just uninstall, OR he will stay playing solo open world content/questing. Cos pvp in current state is a total JOKE.

I would remove dmg shields from pvp at all, and problem solved, i see no reason why DDs should have so many deffs. I have crazy deffs with ZERO shields, and good survivability with those few heals i have. If you give spell like streak and dmg shield to every class, then damn, that would be experience, would ruin game completely, sorc noobs would finally start playing something else tho.
Removing shields from pvp completely could save this games pvp for a couple more years, now during whitestrake it was a distaster, milions of dmg shields, ZERO tactics, team with more shields wins, even heals are not problem at all in this game, but those shields ARE A BIG PROBLEM IN PVP.
  • fred4
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    Wallar333 wrote: »
    Funny thing is, that mostly those who play sorcs are crying about nightblades and dragon knights.
    Hahaha, this is true, but nothing new. It's is an age old discussion. I'm a magblade main, by the way.
    Removing shields from pvp completely could save this games pvp for a couple more years, now during whitestrake it was a distaster, milions of dmg shields, ZERO tactics, team with more shields wins, even heals are not problem at all in this game, but those shields ARE A BIG PROBLEM IN PVP.
    My prediction: You're going to get exactly nowhere with this thread. I confess I skipped to the end of your post, because you started making detailed comparisons of the classes. These always go nowhere. It's apples and oranges. This is an RPG. This is how it's supposed to be. I wouldn't remove shields, nor Streak / BoL, anymore than I would remove Shadowy Disguise and Shdow Image from the game. These skills are part of their respective classes' identity. Do you see many players still using Mist Form? The scribed backwards jump bow skill for that matter? Those watered-down versions of Streak don't quite work in today's meta (or in the case of the bow skill not at all).

    For my part, I'm fine with the skills that actually work well being part of class identity. They shouldn't be sacrificed on the altar of balance, certainly not duelling balance. Even if we arguably have a tank meta and shields are part of that meta on the sorc side, the game isn't balanced around individual encounters, such as 1 sorc versus 1 NB. Rather it's balanced around how attractive the classes are to players in open world. Now, if it was true that 80% of the population were sorcs, I believe ZOS would take notice, but that isn't quite true now, is it?

    It's always nightblade and sorc mains fighting with each other in the forums. As a middle of the road, balanced magblade, I feel your pain. Sorcs are the most likely class to kill me in open world. However as a very high damage ganker on the one hand, or a tanky Dark Cloak-using brawler on the other, I'm not sure it would be the same. Sorcs seem to hate nightblades as much as (some) nightblades hate sorcs. Maybe it's the high damage gankers and experienced duellers, or the ones who simply manage to escape or dodge roll sorc's single target damage, I'm not sure.

    I'll say one thing: Sorc is easier to play, but I don't hold that against it for balancing purposes. Like you, I play a bit of magsorc, but I'm still a magblade main. Ultimately nothing beats (mag)blade for playing to your own tune. Sorcs can be pursued and zerged down. On average, nightblade has a better chance of escaping completely, at least if you build for it and that is what you want. Sometimes I think sorcs are envious of that and they don't see how good Streak / BoL is.
    Edited by fred4 on March 11, 2025 1:27AM
  • silky_soft
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    Nothing stopping the them returning the original shield breaker, knight slayer and cost increase poisons. Putting stamina or mag drain on block. Halving the movement speed of streak. Reducing healing to a max of 8m and removing the range buff from battlespirit.

    But then again, in this stage of the game life, it will be what the whales play that won't be disadvantaged.
    This recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.
  • StaticWave
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    The only nerf magsorc deserves is the heal on the shield. Everything else is not an issue
  • Wallar333
    Wallar333
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    *Fred i agree, im not saying to delete streak completely, but it MUST be changed, at least it should definitely not stun ppl, that skill is OP even without it, i say its incredibly OP in combo with other skills, even NB as duelant with speed boost have zero chance to kill sorc in 1v1 ( if sorc is not completely dumb), you would never get him, cos even if you get close, then ALL NB spells are dodgable, so AGAIN, sorc does dodge dodge turns uses streak a does **** load of dmg, its always the same, and not even worth mentioning other classes that have completely no chance against sorc. Streaks STUN is the MAIN problem, i wouldnt mind that spell that much, but that stun on it is way too OP. Even with espaping, as nb you just go invis sure, but you wont get that far anyway, and if sorc sees you go invis, he uses streak to the exact spot and in at least 50% cases he hits you, reveal you and stun you, and YOURE DEAD, not to mention that every class can use invis with pots, so not as much OP at all, only difference is that you have it on spell as NB.

    I can see your point about ppl playing other classes still, thats true, in open-world definitely, everyone is playing what makes him happy, but in pvp most endgame players 2000CP+ are playing sorcs, OR sometimes templars, but i have no problems with those at all, and usually templars are actually really skilled players. Just check BGs if you see other class than sorc, its in 80% cases someone with CP 1000- who probably still have no idea whats going on in pvp :D. Or hes there with his main char just for daily reward, expecting others to win that match for him :D. And in cyro its every time you see those small groups of 5- ppl running DKs and sorcs, + one arcanist as healer, group of 5 such ppl can withstand the whole zerg, literally.


    *StaticWave shields are problem exactly cos of healing, especially when there are more ppl as groups crosshealing each other while putting on shields, makes ppl unkillable which is destroying this games pvp completely. Especially with arc healers its crazy, cos those group shields buffing sorcs shields EVEN more are a total JOKE. You take shield and under it you heal to full HP while also dodging sprinting, cos mag regen works still.
    Easiest way would be to just remove dmg shields from pvp completely, everyone would have to think how to use rss, drink pot and when to dodge, finally there would be some tactics in the fights, cos now its like child play, more dumb shields/heals win, everyone running/dodging/shielding and healing, one hundred ppl fights 10 minutes, and 5ppl dies, cyro fights are especially boring cos of this.
    Or ZOS should make roles for PVP too, forcing healers to be the only ones able to shield themselves or allies, which would also bring some more tactics to pvp finally, cos team would have to defend their healers, while enemy would have to target those first, there would be more use for example revealing sets like sentry is.

    So problem could also be solved by blocking all shield spells in PVP and GROUP heal spells on DDs and tanks, making new skill lines for PVP only, giving tanks more deffs, DDs well, i wouldnt say more dmg, but more debuffs maybe, and healers to be able to be only ones able to heal/shield allies. PROBLEM SOLVED and pvp would finally look as pvp, forcing ppl to think.

    PVP in this game now is ridiculous, and feels completely like made for 12yo kids. And sorcs are benefiting from this ridiculousness more than anyone else.
  • Aces-High-82
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    Maybe you missed that true positional teleport called shadow Image...
  • Wallar333
    Wallar333
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    Maybe you missed that true positional teleport called shadow Image...

    In 80% cases completely useless spell which just takes one skill slot, skill slot you need for heals, cos you dont have any shield, OR for literally any other useful spell. Not to mention that you have to use it BEFORE the fight and you can teleport to only one exact spot, while sorcs streak can teleport anywhere anytime you want/need. you wont see any good NB player using this spell, cos its worthless. It can save your life sure, if you put it somewhere in the back BEFORE the fight and then jump in, do some dmg and teleport back, sounds nice, but in reality its useless. In comparison to streak its a JOKE.
  • fred4
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    Wallar333 wrote: »
    Maybe you missed that true positional teleport called shadow Image...

    In 80% cases completely useless spell which just takes one skill slot, skill slot you need for heals, cos you dont have any shield, OR for literally any other useful spell. Not to mention that you have to use it BEFORE the fight and you can teleport to only one exact spot, while sorcs streak can teleport anywhere anytime you want/need. you wont see any good NB player using this spell, cos its worthless. It can save your life sure, if you put it somewhere in the back BEFORE the fight and then jump in, do some dmg and teleport back, sounds nice, but in reality its useless. In comparison to streak its a JOKE.
    To me they are completely different skills. Shadow Image allows porting through walls as well as vertically upwards, for example back up to the ramparts of a keep or to another level of a tower. It's also good to escape melee players, e.g. drop it, run for a bit, then port back behind them. Furthermore it allowed baiting people to jump off a bridge, while you ported back up, much like the Psijic ult can. I'm not sure whether Shadow Image can still be procced mid-air, but it used to.

    Historically speaking it was a popular skill. I think the main reason it's not anymore is the increased use and availability of speed buffs, which means that you easily outrange your image and that people may follow you more easily. It's also an expensive skill. Some players would keep it up routinely as part of their buff rotation. That was always hard on magicka.
  • xylena_lazarow
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    The only nerf magsorc deserves is the heal on the shield. Everything else is not an issue
    Continuing from the other Sorc thread, I still disagree here. The BashSorc spec you yourself said is a problem IIRC is not a Ward build. I see the Sorc problem as ranged nuke spam combined with disengage/reengage spam, which even mid players can threaten. There are serious problems with Sorc class design beyond just Ward, which has already been nerfed. I can kill Ward MagSorcs on my DK if I get in their face and outplay them, as I should be able to.

    The common ground between my mid MagSorc problem and your BashSorc problem: the teleport spam.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance
  • SeaGtGruff
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    Wallar333 wrote: »
    Maybe you missed that true positional teleport called shadow Image...

    In 80% cases completely useless spell which just takes one skill slot, skill slot you need for heals, cos you dont have any shield, OR for literally any other useful spell. Not to mention that you have to use it BEFORE the fight and you can teleport to only one exact spot, while sorcs streak can teleport anywhere anytime you want/need. you wont see any good NB player using this spell, cos its worthless. It can save your life sure, if you put it somewhere in the back BEFORE the fight and then jump in, do some dmg and teleport back, sounds nice, but in reality its useless. In comparison to streak its a JOKE.

    One of the ESO PvP streamers I enjoy watching uses it a lot, and it doesn't seem useless when he uses it. /shrug
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Wallar333
    Wallar333
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    Wallar333 wrote: »
    Maybe you missed that true positional teleport called shadow Image...

    In 80% cases completely useless spell which just takes one skill slot, skill slot you need for heals, cos you dont have any shield, OR for literally any other useful spell. Not to mention that you have to use it BEFORE the fight and you can teleport to only one exact spot, while sorcs streak can teleport anywhere anytime you want/need. you wont see any good NB player using this spell, cos its worthless. It can save your life sure, if you put it somewhere in the back BEFORE the fight and then jump in, do some dmg and teleport back, sounds nice, but in reality its useless. In comparison to streak its a JOKE.

    One of the ESO PvP streamers I enjoy watching uses it a lot, and it doesn't seem useless when he uses it. /shrug

    It can be only used in IC, otherwise that skill is a useless waste of a skill slot. Ive been using it few times in IC, its not OP, but its good for surprise attacks against noob groups, killing 1/2 of them and teleporting back somewhere into building for example and go invis and disappear, or change spot to strike again. But thats only thing this skill can be used for, in a normal fight like duels or BGs its 95% useless, and in cyro its useful only during sieges if youre defending, otherwise its also useless. That skill is absolutly not worth mentioning, so idk why you ppl mentioned it :D especially if comparing it to streak.

    Streak is way too OP as it is, and stun on it, is like a fart into face to every other class in the game. Theres NO other spell that can be compared to it. And as in mentioned IC, sorcs are much more annoying and dangerous gankers that NBs can ever be, COS of streak, especially when they are using bow on back bar for major expedition lol. even with NB also using bow on back bar you wouldnt run away from them. Well you can, if youre lucky enough, OR if youre clever enough to use UNDO at the right spot. But were not talking here about saving your life against sorcs lol, this is about sorcs beeing too OP that your only chance is to run away ? What a great mechanics then.

    For example, if i jump on DK, its usually 70/30 for me to loose the fight, but in 80% cases if i die, its cos i did something wrong, otherwise DK wont get me, i can always get away, but sorc are a totally different story with that noob spell teleport/dmg/reveal/stun spell streak is.
  • Urzigurumash
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    Only bad players die to Sorcs or NBs. Good players only die to AoE DoTs like Wall of Elements
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
  • Urzigurumash
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    censored for slander of the noble MagSorcs and valiant StamBlades of yesteryear

    Edited by Urzigurumash on March 11, 2025 11:09PM
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
  • SpiritofESO
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    You are avoiding the crux of the problem, and that is the fact that the classes are not balanced for PVP.

    Battle Spirit was intended to create such a balance and to modify Time-To-Kill. It has not done so mainly because it did not go far enough.

    Sorcerers, as a class, are virtually unkillable in PvP. I have witnessed more times than I can remember 10 or 12 people trying to kill a Sorcerer and failing due to their massive damage shield and healing and not to mention they can use Blink at any time to simply run away and escape. No other class including Nightblade has this ability!

    Battle Spirit, obviously, has to be expanded on a class-by-class basis in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds.

    Until that happens, or some other action taken to balance classes in PvP, we will have a continuation of Bombers, Dark Convergence, and Ball Groups dominating everything in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds.

    :neutral:
    • ~ PS NA ~ ALDMERI DOMINION ~
      ~ "SPIRIT GOLDBLADE" WOOD ELF NIGHTBLADE ~
      ~ GRAND OVERLORD ~ FORMER EMPRESS ~
      ~ The "SPIRIT GOLDBLADE" Channel on YouTube ~
      "Adapt or Die"
  • Urzigurumash
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    Anyhow I'm here to report from the Low Skill / Low Awarness / Outdated Meta world of Xbox that NB still outnumbers Sorc in Cyro, and Merciless Resolve is still the top move for expert PVP geniuses
    Edited by Urzigurumash on March 11, 2025 9:41PM
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
  • MasterSpatula
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    I continue to wish I lived in y'all's world.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • TechMaybeHic
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    Game has become very favorable to range while melee puts you in more danger of pulls and bombs. Of course the class with the best ranged toolbox will shine.
  • StaticWave
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    The only nerf magsorc deserves is the heal on the shield. Everything else is not an issue
    Continuing from the other Sorc thread, I still disagree here. The BashSorc spec you yourself said is a problem IIRC is not a Ward build. I see the Sorc problem as ranged nuke spam combined with disengage/reengage spam, which even mid players can threaten. There are serious problems with Sorc class design beyond just Ward, which has already been nerfed. I can kill Ward MagSorcs on my DK if I get in their face and outplay them, as I should be able to.

    The common ground between my mid MagSorc problem and your BashSorc problem: the teleport spam.

    Actually, that bash sorc spec is partly problematic because of the HP scaling shield. Bashsorc builds in general have very low weapon damage and mediocre healing. All of them run 37-40k HP with Ward to compensate for that.
  • StaticWave
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    And I wouldn't be claiming bashsorc needs a nerf if I hadn't run into those players. I'm not talking about the mediocre bash sorcs that get folded in Cyrodiil because they're no different than the mediocre magsorcs. I'm talking about bash sorcs that know what they're doing and min maxed the spec.

    Look at this build for example:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=672524

    This build has:

    - 40.7k HP
    - 16.5k mag
    - 19.3k stam
    - 3.2k HP recov fully buffed
    - 2.2k mag recov fully buffed
    - 2390 stam recov fully buffed
    - 3.4k spell/wep dmg
    - 18.5% crit
    - 62% crit dmg
    - 3.2k pen before Major/Minor Breach
    - 43.8k spell resist and 43.1k physical resist before Master SnB
    - 2k crit resist
    - 4.7k effective power

    The stat sheets of this build should tell you that it is a pure tank build and technically will not do any damage, but guess what? IT DOES DAMAGE. That is what's absurd about bash sorc.

    I mean look at this CMX of my friend dueling Skara:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927026371568488460/1332655731660292136/image.png?ex=67d2081d&is=67d0b69d&hm=c094c8b36dec61de95ed37437c5dd3cf2d4790a87d01932fe7734f4a8fa0fb6d&

    He did 9.2k DPS to Skara in a bash sorc vs bash sorc duel, while having 40.7k HP, 43.8k resists, and 4.7k effective power lol. This is not also mentioning that he has 2 extra slots for scribing skills. He can use Shield Throw with the extra bash damage script and Major Vitality/Cowardice to make himself even tankier. He can also use Wield Soul with Major Defile and another DoT to make you heal less. Did I also mention he has Hardened Ward with 3k HP recovery fully buffed on top of those resists?

    IDK, I've fought this build a lot and it's borderline impossible for me to kill it, but it can kill me anytime I mess up. I have to sweat so much vs this build whereas vs a magsorc it's no big deal. I think bash sorc isn't that popular because most people are either bad at it or they just don't want to stoop down to that level. When you start seeing actual good players on this spec, you will understand why it's even more of a problem than magsorc imo.



    Edited by StaticWave on March 12, 2025 6:54AM
  • Tcholl
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    The worst issue with sorcs are the current state of Hardened Ward for sure, but along with streak it is that much worse. It is very hard to understand how in the world they thought that combo would be ok for pvp. As I have said before, they have abandoned pvp and the last uptades just show that.
    Also, the streak is bad from concept imo. Its just annoying for everyone else not using it and does way to much pressing only one key.
    Passives that gives max health, or even stats and damage, should not exist in any class too and sorcs are stacked with those at the moment.

    But all of this is old news at this point, right?
    PC NA - Gray Host
  • StaticWave
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    Tcholl wrote: »
    Also, the streak is bad from concept imo. Its just annoying for everyone else not using it and does way to much pressing only one key.

    Yes, Streak is a very stacked ability, but it has never been a problem though.
    Tcholl wrote: »
    Passives that gives max health, or even stats and damage, should not exist in any class too and sorcs are stacked with those at the moment.

    But all of this is old news at this point, right?

    I mean by this logic, every class is stacked with damage and stat boosting passives. Should we nerf all of them then?
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Tcholl wrote: »
    Passives that gives max health, or even stats and damage, should not exist in any class too and sorcs are stacked with those at the moment.

    But all of this is old news at this point, right?

    I mean by this logic, every class is stacked with damage and stat boosting passives. Should we nerf all of them then?

    Sorc does have more than other classes. It's a big part of why they're the preferred class for werewolf and heavy attack builds.
  • Tcholl
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Tcholl wrote: »
    Also, the streak is bad from concept imo. Its just annoying for everyone else not using it and does way to much pressing only one key.

    Yes, Streak is a very stacked ability, but it has never been a problem though.
    Tcholl wrote: »
    Passives that gives max health, or even stats and damage, should not exist in any class too and sorcs are stacked with those at the moment.

    But all of this is old news at this point, right?

    I mean by this logic, every class is stacked with damage and stat boosting passives. Should we nerf all of them then?

    I believe all passives should be toned down for PvP and also scribing should be a PvE only feature. We need to reduce player power imo and make mistakes count on this game.
    PC NA - Gray Host
  • StaticWave
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Tcholl wrote: »
    Passives that gives max health, or even stats and damage, should not exist in any class too and sorcs are stacked with those at the moment.

    But all of this is old news at this point, right?

    I mean by this logic, every class is stacked with damage and stat boosting passives. Should we nerf all of them then?

    Sorc does have more than other classes. It's a big part of why they're the preferred class for werewolf and heavy attack builds.

    You should take a look at NB, Warden, DK, and Arc then.
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    IDK, I've fought this build a lot and it's borderline impossible for me to kill it, but it can kill me anytime I mess up. I have to sweat so much vs this build whereas vs a magsorc it's no big deal. I think bash sorc isn't that popular because most people are either bad at it or they just don't want to stoop down to that level. When you start seeing actual good players on this spec, you will understand why it's even more of a problem than magsorc imo.
    Do you see BashSorc as a problem in duels, open world, or both? I have no desire to duel BashSorcs on OW DK and I'm only beating Skara if I can get the jump on her with an early lead in the 1v1, but if I'm with allies she has to bolt immediately, BashSorc doesn't scale OW and is relatively easy for me to avoid if I'm not obligated to duel.

    Mid (or better) range Sorcs will parse on me from range, bolt into the hills if I look at them, bolt back to parse on me as soon as I engage the others, repeat ad nauseum. The MagSorc does not need to be good to be this obnoxious. The BashSorc needs to be good, at that point a good player zerging me down can zerg me down on anything, so it's moot.

    It's also not even necessarily that they're killing me, just that I find the resulting play pattern severely limits solo tactics, and is just plain unfun. I've also been playing a lot more BGs and a lot less Cyro lately, and left dueling long ago.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance
  • Sluggy
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    Wallar333 wrote: »
    nightblades which should be best in 1v1 combat just suck cos they have [...] not enough heals,
    Hu-u-u-u-u-h?

    Refreshing Path
    Dark Cloak
    Soul Shred
    Strife
    Malevolent Offering
    Siphoning Strikes
    Wallar333 wrote: »
    [...] while also they have to use mundus/sets/glyphs to have some sustain in pvp.
    Wha-a-a-a-a-a-a?

    Executioner
    Refreshing Shadows
    Siphoning Strikes


    By this logic we might as well say that nightblades also are severely lacking in damage, too!

    EDIT: Okay, so are we talking 1v1 for a general-purpose Cyrodiil setup or are we talking dueling? If it's the latter then yeah you might be right but honestly, this game just doesn't make any sense for dueling. I don't know that they'd ever really be able to get things well balanced for both situations without introducing some custom dueling-only effect similar to Battle Spirit.
    Edited by Sluggy on March 12, 2025 8:21PM
  • Wallar333
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    Sluggy wrote: »
    Wallar333 wrote: »
    nightblades which should be best in 1v1 combat just suck cos they have [...] not enough heals,
    Hu-u-u-u-u-h?

    Refreshing Path
    Dark Cloak
    Soul Shred
    Strife
    Malevolent Offering
    Siphoning Strikes
    Wallar333 wrote: »
    [...] while also they have to use mundus/sets/glyphs to have some sustain in pvp.
    Wha-a-a-a-a-a-a?

    Executioner
    Refreshing Shadows
    Siphoning Strikes


    By this logic we might as well say that nightblades also are severely lacking in damage, too!

    EDIT: Okay, so are we talking 1v1 for a general-purpose Cyrodiil setup or are we talking dueling? If it's the latter then yeah you might be right but honestly, this game just doesn't make any sense for dueling. I don't know that they'd ever really be able to get things well balanced for both situations without introducing some custom dueling-only effect similar to Battle Spirit.

    Bro i guess you never played NB if youre saying this. Those heals you mentioned, are in most cases much weaker than healing staff skill line.

    1. refreshing path, in PVP ? bro you cant be serious.
    2. dark cloak - throwing away invis, which is only NB advantage for what ? Heal that gives you few K HP ? you cant be serious bro, not to mention you have to stay on one place to make it worth at least a bit, so [snip] ?
    3. soul shred - actually only useful one, problem is, ITS short range, if ppl are not completely dumb, they get away to tear tether, you can keep one, with luck maybe two ppl tethered thats it, so not that much still, ppl using it for multi target CC, not for heal. But i agree this spell sounds nice, but its not that usefull as a healing spell at all tho.
    4. strife- with swallow soul morph sure, its a must have skill, NBs only really useful healing spell for pvp, while also vigor is a total necessity of course.
    5. Malevolent offering - i hope you mentioned this one as a joke, were talking about PVP bro.
    6. siphoning strikes - useful one for sure, if you know when to use it, cos 4k HP- in PVP is rly a LOT, while gives you rss for not even one spell, its incredibly useful in PVE, not that much in PVP tho. You can cast vigor and use this few times while out of fight running away, but wont help you much still.
    7. executioner - same as above, for PVE, incredibly useful one, for PVP, almost not at all, if you manage to kill one player, you usually spend most of rss, so those few wont make a difference in PVP, its not enough for even one spell, but sure, its at least something.
    8. refreshing shadows- this is only one i agree about to be actually usefull.

    The problem is, AGAIN DMG shields, as NB you have NONE, which means you are in MELEE FIGHT not *** range as sorc, without any HP protection while you can be critical damaged, with those few WEAK heals you have, DMG shields prevents critical DMG 100% which is just another JOKE of this games mechanics, that means sorcs actually dont even need to use rallying cry or impenetrable traits on their builds, same as DKs, cos they have 100% crit deff almost full time.

    This game needs to get rid of DMG shields completely, to make PVP playable, even if keeping sorcs STREAK skill with stun, they wouldnt be so annoying without DMG shields. Even builds in this game are not that much of a problem, STREAKs stun IS a problem, but DMG shields are literally killing this games PVP, and who says otherwise, is one of those who are enjoying this GOD mode in PVP, or a complet braindead.

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2025 6:11PM
  • Navaac223
    Navaac223
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    Wallar333 wrote: »
    nightblades which should be best in 1v1 combat just suck cos they have none dmg shields and not enough heals, while also they have to use mundus/sets/glyphs to have some sustain in pvp.

    2. Incredibly crazy streak spell which shouldnt be in the game at all.

    So, lets compare to NB for example, than everyone is crying about for years

    3. Supposed to be duelant/ganker with high burst damage - now in PVE content prob even plate armor arcanist can do more dmg (just kidding, its actually good still, but cant be compared to for example sorc still). In pvp NBs SINGLE target spells are sometimes EVEN weaker than other classes AoEs, which is crazy but ok.
    4. NB is prob hardest class to play in the game, cos its useless as tank, and weak as a healer, while lack enough dmg/debuffs to be a DD in pvp. Only thing NB is still strong at, is when execute some low HP targets, in normal fight its almost useless, in comparison to sorcerer its a JOKE literally, no matter build/spells anything.

    We've all noticed that max stats magsorcs are currently completely OP but that isn't a reason to have all those takes xD

    -Nightblade is the one class that has the best sustain IMO, try playing on a templar or necro and you will learn that not every class has a skill that gives you infinite sustain while not even requiring a cast (talking about syphoning attacks ofc). It also has a top tier burst heal, along with the single best tool to evade attacks : cloak.

    -Their single target spammable is literally the single best melee spammable for pvp. Just be thankful you don't have to use blood for blood or d-swing like us stamcros. The fact that every nightblade uses incap instead of dawnbreaker like the classes that actually have bad skills just goes to show they have one of the best movesets. Oh yeah, look at the tooltip for merciless resolve...

    -Wait a second, I'm not done with nightblade having everything : major courage + major brutality on a single skill, shadow image, an insane 1vX skill, an execute second only to JesusBeam (by the way, nb skills are so dense that you can afford the bar space for an execute, a luxury that tempar, necro, arc and warden can't even afford most of the time), free major resolve, free major savagery... ight I think I'm done for now

    -"The hardest class to play in the game" ?!! For pve DD I could understand but come on ! Being a necro main, I can tell you that hopping on my magblade when I want to get my campaign rewards feels like easy mode : I literally hit twice as hard, have no sustain issues and can casually hold my own in 1vX because of all their tools

    Now, about streak.. Yes, it should remain in the game : every class should have something unique, maybe even a little OP about them or else it isn't fun. Every class has something : polar wind+many HoTs for warden, ressources on ult for dk, necro and templar have errrr... a dedicated community ? I think it's obvious that your class already has this element : cloak, and that's fine ! What isn't fine is hardened ward giving infinite survivability to everyone who can remember to cast it when they see their health drop.
  • Wallar333
    Wallar333
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    Navaac223 wrote: »
    Wallar333 wrote: »
    nightblades which should be best in 1v1 combat just suck cos they have none dmg shields and not enough heals, while also they have to use mundus/sets/glyphs to have some sustain in pvp.

    2. Incredibly crazy streak spell which shouldnt be in the game at all.

    So, lets compare to NB for example, than everyone is crying about for years

    3. Supposed to be duelant/ganker with high burst damage - now in PVE content prob even plate armor arcanist can do more dmg (just kidding, its actually good still, but cant be compared to for example sorc still). In pvp NBs SINGLE target spells are sometimes EVEN weaker than other classes AoEs, which is crazy but ok.
    4. NB is prob hardest class to play in the game, cos its useless as tank, and weak as a healer, while lack enough dmg/debuffs to be a DD in pvp. Only thing NB is still strong at, is when execute some low HP targets, in normal fight its almost useless, in comparison to sorcerer its a JOKE literally, no matter build/spells anything.

    We've all noticed that max stats magsorcs are currently completely OP but that isn't a reason to have all those takes xD

    -Nightblade is the one class that has the best sustain IMO, try playing on a templar or necro and you will learn that not every class has a skill that gives you infinite sustain while not even requiring a cast (talking about syphoning attacks ofc). It also has a top tier burst heal, along with the single best tool to evade attacks : cloak.

    -Their single target spammable is literally the single best melee spammable for pvp. Just be thankful you don't have to use blood for blood or d-swing like us stamcros. The fact that every nightblade uses incap instead of dawnbreaker like the classes that actually have bad skills just goes to show they have one of the best movesets. Oh yeah, look at the tooltip for merciless resolve...

    -Wait a second, I'm not done with nightblade having everything : major courage + major brutality on a single skill, shadow image, an insane 1vX skill, an execute second only to JesusBeam (by the way, nb skills are so dense that you can afford the bar space for an execute, a luxury that tempar, necro, arc and warden can't even afford most of the time), free major resolve, free major savagery... ight I think I'm done for now

    -"The hardest class to play in the game" ?!! For pve DD I could understand but come on ! Being a necro main, I can tell you that hopping on my magblade when I want to get my campaign rewards feels like easy mode : I literally hit twice as hard, have no sustain issues and can casually hold my own in 1vX because of all their tools

    Now, about streak.. Yes, it should remain in the game : every class should have something unique, maybe even a little OP about them or else it isn't fun. Every class has something : polar wind+many HoTs for warden, ressources on ult for dk, necro and templar have errrr... a dedicated community ? I think it's obvious that your class already has this element : cloak, and that's fine ! What isn't fine is hardened ward giving infinite survivability to everyone who can remember to cast it when they see their health drop.

    Its not that easy as youre describing, i have a lot of time spend playing NB, so i know exactly how this class works, while i tested most of others too, didnt tested necro or warden, cos i checked their spells etc, and its not for me. Those two are probably good for PVE healing, which is something i never played, cos i dont like beeing a healer.
    NB is good class for PVP, im not saying its not, sustain is not that easy as youre describing. Sustain is hard in PVP for most classes, NB included, cos invis sucks most of youre magicka, your best spell lotus fan costs a bambilion of magicka also, so you usually use it only from time to time, otherwise youre sucked in few seconds. Single target dmg is verry good, few K above other classes skills for sure, but they are SINGLE target, which is good for ganking, but in BGs, well depends on situation, but youre usually facing more opponents there, while with those skills you doing DMG to only ONE of them, and others can heal/shield him, which happens in 80% cases, so you jump there, with ONE WAY TICKET and try to kill someone. Sure, if your team focuses someone, you can take him HARD with strong single target skills and execute.

    NB has disadvantages too, its not as easy as youre describing, but if you think so, im not taking it from you. This topic tho, is not about NB beeing weak, so first please try reading, then answer. This topic is about sorcs beeing way too OP, cos of STREAK in combination with shields. Streak can stay in the game, as spell a have no problem with it, its a uniq spell for sorcs, as jesus beam for templar, or killers blade for NBs etc. But stun on it, is way too much.

    Also you mentioned templars beeing bad in PVP ? Bro, in many cases im getting melted by templars, for me, its third best PVP class after sorcs and DKs. NBs are good, but hard to play, and VERRY situational, some NB spells you mentioned are a waste of skill slot, as shadow image lol, in BGs a total waste, in cyro, VERRY SITUATIONAL skill.
    Also, theres no spell to give you major courage + major brutality, you get MINOR courage, so i can see you dont know that much about NBs skills.
    Syphoning attacks are even DANGEROUS to use in PVP, cos YOURE MELEE DD, which means you can use it only out of fight, otherwise RIP, so [snip] ? ...

    So for the last time, NBs are good in PVP, but verry situational, and only strong againt SINGLE targets, otherwise they mostly sucks, in comparison to other classes. AND AGAIN this topic is about sorcs beeing WAY TOO OP with streak+shields/heals combo. Sorcs are using magicka only, which means they have everything in mag, which gives them at least around 30k mag for sure, while they are using stam only for dodges/sprint/vigor usually, AND MAGICKA IS REGENERATING WHILE DODGING/SPRINTING, so sorc gets to half mag, ports away, uses few dodges, streak again and hes on the other side of the map, with full HP/RSS and shielded, running back to you, streaks you, and youre done, NBs are a good chasers with movement speed buffs, but never outrun magsorcs still. Its a big problem even with bow on backbar, which no one uses, cos you need destro staff back barred for elemental sus, cos mark target is useless nonsense.

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2025 6:11PM
  • TechMaybeHic
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    The worst part about sorc and nb threads is they both show up and argue which 1 has the worse first world problems
  • Wallar333
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    The worst part about sorc and nb threads is they both show up and argue which 1 has the worse first world problems

    Only a truly noob sorcs are crying about NBs, cos ANY sorc player with at least two brain cells would melt any NB in 1v1. And actually this DMG shield problem is the same with DKs, but those are rather annoying than OP actually, from 80% part cos they dont have anything similar to STREAK.
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