Gold Spammers Stealing Credit Cards? That an awful lot of stolen credit cards.

Marthanna · May 2014

At this point, I think ZOS is running these bots then selling mats, etc. for RMT. That's why the main developer made some comment about "keeping bots away from players".

If ZOS isn't running the bots then it makes me more worried...hate playing a game full of cartel members/prisoner forced labor/etc.

epoling · May 2014

To me the whole "Bots are driving people away" argument is not very good. Wouldn't the bots have dropped off if they were the only ones on? No customers means it would be a waste of resources running the bots. Apparently they are making enough money off EOS players to make it worth their time and resources to keep it up.

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

Heh. I've heard that the online version of Diablo 2 is still up and running, but is now nothing but bots. I wonder if D1 is still supported, I can only imagine. Now, I heard this before D3 went live, but even so .. people were still willing to buy old D2 gear off of a shady website?

Nazon_Katts · May 2014

Even a stolen credit card has a worth attached to it. Considering how fast they recoup from a round of banning, it literally just takes seconds for them to come back, I doubt they are using them to create accounts. There's gotta be a way less costly way for doing it, since the half life of a fraud account shouldn't be that long anymore, results in the credit card becoming useless to them and there should be more worthwhile fraudelent activities with stolen CC than running a bot for a few hours tops.

If you go by the current rate of gold, a bot has to run quite a few hours undisturbed, if it's assigned to do the Coldharbor Shuffle, in order to actually make more than the worth of the game. That's not considering the cost of running the botter's business and the cost of acquiring said CC information. If a bot can't make more than that, it just would be better to "spend" the credit cards' limits elsewhere.

So I wouldn't easily dismiss that they very well may have found a way to make fake CCs work, have a working key gen or - worst case - have indeed hacked the account server.

Censorious · May 2014

Curiously, GW2 was/is almost completely free of gold sellers.

Don't know why, except they are absolutely not tolerated. If you report someone in game for any breach of the ToS - he'll likely vanish within a few minutes.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Even a stolen credit card has a worth attached to it. Considering how fast they recoup from a round of banning, it literally just takes seconds for them to come back, I doubt they are using them to create accounts. There's gotta be a way less costly way for doing it, since the half life of a fraud account shouldn't be that long anymore, results in the credit card becoming useless to them and there should be more worthwhile fraudelent activities with stolen CC than running a bot for a few hours tops.

If you go by the current rate of gold, a bot has to run quite a few hours undisturbed, if it's assigned to do the Coldharbor Shuffle, in order to actually make more than the worth of the game. That's not considering the cost of running the botter's business and the cost of acquiring said CC information. If a bot can't make more than that, it just would be better to "spend" the credit cards' limits elsewhere.

So I wouldn't easily dismiss that they very well may have found a way to make fake CCs work, have a working key gen or - worst case - have indeed hacked the account server.

They don't buy full price accounts either - they get bulk discount keys and stuff like that.

It's a whole world of shadiness, and also, these stolen CC numbers cost them pennies each. It doesn't matter how much it costs for the game - it goes on the stolen card.

Dita · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

Curiously, GW2 was/is almost completely free of gold sellers.

Don't know why, except they are absolutely not tolerated. If you report someone in game for any breach of the ToS - he'll likely vanish within a few minutes.

Maybe because GW2 is not the part of the criminal enterprise discussed here ?! And now on to ZOS . . .

Starnes · May 2014

Cainthelongshot wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

Reenlister wrote: »

I dunno lads.. It does seem to be a lot of cards...
Eh, hard to say.
All I can say is that for now, the bots have powned ESO...
( Actually they are going so far as T bagging it here to.. )

Of course it is a lot of cards. These are organized crime cartels that have existed for years, and have been harvesting credit card information for just as long. They operate in EVERY MMO (it's all the same people). A few thousand stolen credit cards is nothing to them.

Do you think when these "cartels" steal credit cards the victim just decides not to cancel it? When the card is cancelled and fraud is reported the subscription will be cancelled, thus causing that bot to no longer exsist. Sure they can take time out of their busy day of cocaine smuggling and human trafficking to steal a couple hundred credit cards, but how many of those do you think are cancelled when fraud is detected. and if they use these stolen cards for so many different things I don't see that leaving 100's of cards exclusively for the creation of an ESO account.

They don't need to steal the credit card info themselves, though I am sure most of them re-use the credit card information that gold buyers supply to them, most likely months or later after the fact.

Gold farmers can also purchase credit card details from stolen credit card information dealers, there is a huge underground market for buying and selling stolen credit card numbers. Any store's or bank's info can eventually be leaked/hacked en masse.

They can pay 20USD for a stolen credit card number, open up many accounts and go nuts, or buy prepaid cards with the stolen credit card to make it even harder to trace.

Ultimately gold buyers will be paying for far more than the purchase of the gold/items over time. They are also the reason for gold sellers to exist, so I guess it serves them right.

theyancey · May 2014

You can buy all of the stolen CC numbers you want for just pennies each.

AngryNord · May 2014

Dita wrote: »

Lorelphoenix wrote: »

Read this I believe it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/06/02/chinese-prisoners-forced-to-farm-world-of-warcraft-gold/

How is it different from forcing prisoners making license plates ?!

You seriously don't see the difference between making license plates (or sewing mail bags) and exploiting/hacking an MMO???

Dita · May 2014

AngryNord wrote: »

Dita wrote: »

Lorelphoenix wrote: »

Read this I believe it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2011/06/02/chinese-prisoners-forced-to-farm-world-of-warcraft-gold/

How is it different from forcing prisoners making license plates ?!

You seriously don't see the difference between making license plates (or sewing mail bags) and exploiting/hacking an MMO???

In the link provided, there is not a single word about "hacking" or "exploiting", farming - yes, but I farm too, sometimes for hours - whats your point ? They saying they forcing them to work (play mmo) for 12 hours a day, I think its better deal, then making license plates or whatever else prisoners forced to do in prison.

Blackwolfe5 · May 2014

Dita wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

Curiously, GW2 was/is almost completely free of gold sellers.

Don't know why, except they are absolutely not tolerated. If you report someone in game for any breach of the ToS - he'll likely vanish within a few minutes.

Maybe because GW2 is not the part of the criminal enterprise discussed here ?! And now on to ZOS . . .

Yes, certainly ZOS is part of a criminal enterprise. NOT!

Seriously, some of these people that operate bots (one person could operate hundreds of bots) are probably part of criminal organizations, where there is far more than just botting. Goldselling is a lucrative market, but on top of goldselling/botting they might be involved in drugs, prostitution, murder.. you name it. Not to mention credit card thefts, hacks, whatever.

Goldselling is also pretty low risk, easy profit.

People should really consider that before buying gold. The very fact that they might indirectly support serious crime.

Dita · May 2014

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

Yes, certainly ZOS is part of a criminal enterprise. NOT!

The word you need to look for in dictionary is: "sarcasm".

Blackwolfe5 · May 2014

Dita wrote: »

Blackwolfe5 wrote: »

Yes, certainly ZOS is part of a criminal enterprise. NOT!

The word you need to look for in dictionary is: "sarcasm".

My bad, got a headache that's been bothering me all day, so I'm not in the best of moods :P

GossiTheDog · May 2014

You can buy stolen credit card info for $5 a card on carding forums (google it).

Nazon_Katts · May 2014

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Even a stolen credit card has a worth attached to it. Considering how fast they recoup from a round of banning, it literally just takes seconds for them to come back, I doubt they are using them to create accounts. There's gotta be a way less costly way for doing it, since the half life of a fraud account shouldn't be that long anymore, results in the credit card becoming useless to them and there should be more worthwhile fraudelent activities with stolen CC than running a bot for a few hours tops.

If you go by the current rate of gold, a bot has to run quite a few hours undisturbed, if it's assigned to do the Coldharbor Shuffle, in order to actually make more than the worth of the game. That's not considering the cost of running the botter's business and the cost of acquiring said CC information. If a bot can't make more than that, it just would be better to "spend" the credit cards' limits elsewhere.

So I wouldn't easily dismiss that they very well may have found a way to make fake CCs work, have a working key gen or - worst case - have indeed hacked the account server.

They don't buy full price accounts either - they get bulk discount keys and stuff like that.

It's a whole world of shadiness, and also, these stolen CC numbers cost them pennies each. It doesn't matter how much it costs for the game - it goes on the stolen card.

There's still opportunity costs. If I use x amount of a credit card's limit, I'd want as much as possible in return. Well, if I had that much of a criminal mind, that is. Considering that bots should be caught relatively fast and the accounts be banned, there's a good chance you'd make more elsewhere.

But they are back just as if they didn't care and they obviously don't. Hence the possibility that the current set up is tailored to ESO. I'm not saying it is that way, but that it ain't so unlikely either. As are other options than just stolen CC info.

Or maybe they found a way to log in one account multiple times so they can exploit all 8 character slots simultaneously, which of course would make using stolen cards more profitable. But then it would need at least some dabbling with the log in servers, methinks.

As long as there's no official word on this, it remains up for speculation. Ah well, who am I kidding, even with word from ZOS that wouldn't change, so I can perfectly understand they keep quiet until they have successfully battled whatever is causing this mess.

p3dr042 · May 2014

If there wasn't a demand for it, they would not exist.

People ARE buying gold from them, that it why they r able to buy other accounts. one company will have atleast 10 workers with 10 multiboxed accounts farming 24 hours a day in every mmo ever made, even the f2p's, they will also have workers inflating facebook likes for order by global companies (A documentary in the Philippines showed an order placed by a well known greeting card company to artificially add likes to their products). Fact is they don't need to steal your credit card. All being what they are doing does break terms and conditions they actually have a viable business and as my first line reads, If people weren't buying from them then they wouldn't bother advertising. As they said in the Philippines "workshop", "accounts do get banned now and again but what it costs to get a new account we would more than triple within a few days of that account farming".
So banning isn't gonna work!

I'm not condoning this in any way shape or form so dont misunderstand what i'm saying but I know people who buy gold regularly in wow and other games and they would swear by the service.. the problem is the people buying gold, how hard is it to notice that this player just recieved 100k in the mail from a character called AAeeefffjjr (coz their names are always *** lol) Tho i'm quite sure these "workshops" wouldn't hesitate to empty your bank accounts if things went sour, they aren't stealing CC information, people are willingly giving it to them in order to buy gold.

but as no game in the last.. erm ok no game in history has been able to stop gold farmers and their respective buyers this topic in general is pointless :P

Nazon_Katts · May 2014

Yeah, RMT is inevitable. But there are ways to dam the problem. And whatever ZOS is doing doesn't seem to be all that helpful. Hence the speculation about a breach in the dam.

I don't think this a pointless thread, as there's a chance on a security breach behind all this.

babylon · May 2014

GossiTheDog wrote: »

You can buy stolen credit card info for $5 a card on carding forums (google it).

Wow, I just had a look, and by looks they're adding cards every few seconds or so.

Valen_Byte · May 2014

Just a thought...what would happen if they just take gold out of the game completely? Make it so that all things must be crafted. This would mean that you could no longer buy anything. No gold=No gold sellers?