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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784

Overland Content Feedback Thread

  • spartaxoxo
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    I love seeing other players in an mmo. That's the whole reason I play this one. What I DO NOT want is overland ramped up to where I can't play it, which means for me, leaving the game.

    A separate vet server would be much better from my pov. So we'll agree to disagree, though I do hope you who want a much harder overland get what you want.

    I don't want difficulty forced on you either. But, I think a separate instance would be much more realistic than a separate server. I would personally prefer a slide, but I can admit that a separate instance is at least plausible. They already do it for dungeons.

    A separate server in addition to heavy development costs also has heavy player costs. It would mean that vet players would have to abandon all of their friends, family and guilds too. That's a heavy player cost.

    ETA
    I just don't understand this desire that we punished for wanting a more immersive story experience. Legendary mode doesn't ruin Skyrim for people on normal. Vet dungeons doesn't ruin normal dungeons. So many examples out of there of variable difficulties in video games not causing problems for anyone. This is not a zero sum problem. Both groups of players can have a fun experience.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 3:40PM
  • SilverBride
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    Getting what was asked for is not punishment. All that was asked for at the start of this debate was boss fights that weren't over quickly and not being able to one hit any enemies. Now additional stipulations are being added.

    The megaserver instances are there to control the population. When one becomes crowded another is created. These instances are all the same. How would they make one more difficult? And keep it so only players that want difficulty are placed into it?

    Accounts were moved to consoles when those were introduced as a one time occurrence. The same could happen for new veteran megaservers.

    A veteran megaserver would give everyone what they want without affecting others negatively.
    Edited by SilverBride on February 13, 2025 3:58PM
    PCNA
  • SilverBride
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    Dahveed wrote: »
    I find it funny that the guy who told us "we should take a break from this thread" is responsible for about 40% of literally all posts, failing to understand even the most basic arguments. (Almost intentionally, one might think...)

    I'm not a guy and I still think nothing different is going to be considered until they have tested the experiment they have in mind. But I'm not going to not counter what I see as bad ideas in the meantime.
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    Nobody asked to be punished for using a vet mode. Neither is that something that needs to be stated.

    We want to be able to hide hip flaps!

    Done. But now you're not allowed to customize your gear and must wear what we decide.

    That's like the monkey paw fable.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 3:57PM
  • SilverBride
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    If immersion is the reason for wanting more difficulty, then why should players be awarded with increased experience and rewards, too, for getting exactly what they asked for? That has nothing to do with immersion.
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    Also no, it's not all of a sudden. Very basic rewards has been part of the discussion for almost the entire time. The thing that has changed is that suddenly not even exp is okay.

    Page 5, 2021
    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    ETA same page
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    Something like a bit more coin and exp wouldn't be objectionable to me. Or even something like the same gear drops for both, but one is blue and one is green quality. That sort of small thing.

    But I really do have to state I am totally opposed to something like motifs, dyes, achievements, etc. Because Overland content is one and done content, and is supposed to be unifying. I can personally do vet content no problem, but I know people who cannot. One of the people I play with in this game I know irl and he is 100% disabled. That there is content both get the same rewards is meaningful to me. I know for a fact he'd quit, for one. But also I like the spirit of it. That there is content in this game we can all do, and then content for people who want a bit of an extra challenge.


    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 4:13PM
  • spartaxoxo
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    If immersion is the reason for wanting more difficulty, then why should players be awarded with increased experience and rewards, too, for getting exactly what they asked for? That has nothing to do with immersion.

    So that the basic functionality of the system is not broken.

    The gameplay function for questing is to level up. Giving people what they asked for but breaking the functionality is like a monkey paw.

    Apply that logic to any other system and it falls apart

    You can now hide any gear piece, but your outfit is no longer customizable.

    You no longer have to queue for dlc dungeons when selecting a random dungeon, but you no longer get gear or experience points.

    You can now enjoy the story in overland, but you can't use quests to level a new character

    ETA

    If they decide to break the function, I would expect the typical vet rewards like exclusive cosmetics. That's not my ideal because quests are one and done. But there should be something. Nobody is going to want to be punished for using it.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 4:43PM
  • Muizer
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    If immersion is the reason for wanting more difficulty, then why should players be awarded with increased experience and rewards, too, for getting exactly what they asked for? That has nothing to do with immersion.

    You have me on ignore, don't you? That, or you're just repeating the point without addressing counter arguments, which is tantamount to trolling.
    Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!
  • SilverBride
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    Why can't anyone on difficulty use quests to level a new character? It may take a little bit longer but is still very possible. And it's what was asked for.

    A veteran megaserver would solve all these disagreements. I am surprised there isn't more support for something that would work for everyone.

    Unless maybe players don't want difficulty all the time and would only use it occasionally, which makes me wonder if anything is really needed at all then.
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    Because it would be extremely inefficient. You're talking double the time or even worse.

    I don't want to abandon the people I played with for years to enjoy a story..
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 4:58PM
  • MorganaLaVey
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    Why can't anyone on difficulty use quests to level a new character? It may take a little bit longer but is still very possible. And it's what was asked for.
    If friend 1 levels faster than friend 2 thats pretty crappy.
    Also if the argument is that vet should not give higher rewards because players feel forced to play vet to not "missout" then that also means if rewards on normal are higher players feel forced to play normal to not "missout".
    Also. Why is it so importent to you ? The amount of gold and exp you gte from questing is so neglectable compared to many other activities.
    A veteran megaserver would solve all these disagreements. I am surprised there isn't more support for something that would work for everyone.

    Unless maybe players don't want difficulty all the time and would only use it occasionally, which makes me wonder if anything is really needed at all then.
    Its an MMO its not only about what I want but also about what guildmates and friends want. Having to play on server 1 just to do quests and on server 2 for housing and roleplay seems unnecessarily inconvenient.
  • SilverBride
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    When asking for major changes these types of conflicts are going to come up, and players are going to give their feedback, for or against.

    I personally find asking to be rewarded and given more experience for killing the same enemies and doing the same quests because more difficult fights take longer, to be unreasonable and unfair. Especially since longer fights are what is being asked for.

    And no matter how long it takes to level, giving increased experience means that those players will get way more experience per zone than those on normal. How is that fair?
    Edited by SilverBride on February 13, 2025 5:24PM
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    Veteran Players would still be at an exp disadvantage because Normal mode players can power level and Vet players couldn't.

    This means that normal mode players could go into a public dungeon, pull 20 mobs, and kill them in a few seconds. And get far more exp than got through 3 mobs in that same timeframe.

    But if the normal mode player decided to only kill 3 mobs and then spend the rest of the time that a vet one is spending killing things, afk, then they'd get less exp.

    But that is fair because they are choosing to play less often and kill less things.

    I only spent half an hour killing stuff while the vet player spent an hour, and now they got more exp than me! Unfair.

    Sorry. Don't agree
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 5:30PM
  • mocap
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    I can't believe it myself, but i agree with SilverBride )
    Reward for overland difficulty is an interest to do all those 2300+ quests. Not junk items or exp.
  • SilverBride
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    Any player looking to power level would not count on overland enemies and quests to do so. They generally run arenas or other such content to gain fast levels.
    PCNA
  • VoxAdActa
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    So it's not "more fun" if there aren't bigger rewards. Understood.

    Sort of like "We're better at the game/have been playing for longer, so we deserve more things than the people who aren't on our level get" kind of thing. Sort of a soft gatekeeping.
  • spartaxoxo
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    Any player looking to power level would not count on overland enemies and quests to do so. They generally run arenas or other such content to gain fast levels.

    Skyreach, public dungeons, and Spellscar remain popular spots for power leveling and are overland content.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 6:14PM
  • SilverBride
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    Players using those places to power level aren't going to ask for more difficult enemies to fight knowing that they will take longer. They would not be using a slider or a debuff or anything else that would slow the process down.

    Players asking for difficulty for immersion in the story is the opposite of power leveling.
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    Players using those places to power level aren't going to ask for more difficult enemies to fight knowing that they will take longer. They would not be using a slider or a debuff or anything else that would slow the process down.

    Players asking for difficulty for immersion in the story is the opposite of power leveling.

    No. They wouldn't use a slider to power level in a public dungeon. Because being a normal player would still have the advantage for exp gain over vet mode. Because exp gain in this game isn't about the number of mobs in a zone. They respawn. There is no finite amount of mobs.

    It is about the rate of killing. And normal mode players would be superior to hard mode ones still.

    Notably, nobody complains that this is unfair. The only thing considered unfair in this thread is if vet players got a small boost to bring them closer to equality. Because two people playing for an hour and getting the same exp is deemed unfair and asking for extra.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 6:35PM
  • VoxAdActa
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    If ZOS could be trusted to manage the difficulty spike between normal and vet overland, I might be (slightly) more amenable to the idea.

    But ZOS has shown they're very not-great at managing difficulty spikes. The curve for a newbie going into their first 4-man dungeon is steep; DLC dungeons are another big jump in difficulty; and going from normal dungeons to vet dungeons is less of a "curve" and more of a "sheer cliff." Basically, we go directly from content that can be soloed by a competent DPS who doesn't even have to do a full, cohesive rotation at any point to content that requires roles, tight proficiency with character mechanics, studying boss patterns beforehand, and remembering to use all of their buttons. There's no "learning" phase in this game.

    I suspect a "vet overland" would be a similar difficulty cliff, locking all but the top players out of these vague "better rewards."
  • BasP
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    VoxAdActa wrote: »
    If ZOS could be trusted to manage the difficulty spike between normal and vet overland, I might be (slightly) more amenable to the idea.

    But ZOS has shown they're very not-great at managing difficulty spikes. The curve for a newbie going into their first 4-man dungeon is steep; DLC dungeons are another big jump in difficulty; and going from normal dungeons to vet dungeons is less of a "curve" and more of a "sheer cliff." Basically, we go directly from content that can be soloed by a competent DPS who doesn't even have to do a full, cohesive rotation at any point to content that requires roles, tight proficiency with character mechanics, studying boss patterns beforehand, and remembering to use all of their buttons. There's no "learning" phase in this game.

    I suspect a "vet overland" would be a similar difficulty cliff, locking all but the top players out of these vague "better rewards."

    That would indeed be the biggest downside of a single Veteran instance, in my opinion. It's likely that some players would find that difficulty too hard, while it would still be too easy for others.

    While I admit that a slider (or a similar mechanic) has some downsides as well, it could potentially have a wide range of difficulties to choose from. The aforementioned Lord of the Rings Online has 9 additional difficulty levels to choose from, for example, with some different rewards as well.

    Edit: Typo.
    Edited by BasP on February 13, 2025 7:01PM
  • SilverBride
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    ...two people playing for an hour and getting the same exp is deemed unfair...

    Two players questing for an hour will never gain equal experience because there are many factors that determine how much experience any player gets in the same amount of time as another player.

    Some players move through enemies and quests fast, while others take their time and read all the quest text. Should those that choose to take their time receive better experience and rewards because the player that quests fast is earning experience faster than them? That doesn't make sense, just like it doesn't for players that make the choice to take longer by fighting more difficult enemies doesn't.

    Players can stay on normal difficulty if gaining experience is their goal, knowing that even that doesn't guarantee that they will be gaining experience at the same rate as any other players. Or they can choose difficulty and enjoy what they consider increased immersion. But they should not be rewarded for choosing fights that they know will take longer.
    Edited by SilverBride on February 13, 2025 7:29PM
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    29lfo0kybui7.png
    c4uabdmv01wl.png

    The exp is the box. It's simply a tool to ensure questing remains functional for all players. It's funny how even goofy stuff in MS Paint as art can help relieve even minor annoyance. The devs have already talked before about how you got incentivize harder content and cited it as a reason why they hadn't made a harder overland yet. It will be interesting to see how they choose to handle the "incentive problem," as I have a feeling that this feature will get treated the same as every single other feature in this game and all other games.

    ETA
    Uh, it is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a ton of work, and then as lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you're not going to get anything out of it why do it, you know? The satisfaction is there sure, but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.So like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3 of the game was never played by players, so we changed it.”
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 7:44PM
  • SilverBride
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    The short person in the picture didn't ask for a mode to make them shorter, thereby requiring a stool to see. Unlike players asking for more difficulty, knowing what that would entail.

    This is what the situation is in this game:
    • Player asks for increased enemy difficulty for immersion.
    • Increased enemy difficulty results in fights taking a few seconds longer.
    • Player then asks for increased experience and rewards because in theory it takes them a few seconds longer to defeat the enemy than those that didn't choose increased difficulty.
    • But we don't know that those that choose normal difficulty are defeating the enemies and gaining experience faster for various reasons.
    • There is never a situation where players questing in overland are defeating enemies and gaining experience at the same rate due to multiple factors.
    • Willingly choosing a mode the player knows may take a little longer to defeat enemies than it does for another player is not justification for receiving increased experience and rewards.

    As far as incentivizing, increased overland difficulty wasn't something that ZoS was wanting to implement and was looking for a way to incentive it so players would participate in it. This was requested by players that stated their incentive as immersion.
    Edited by SilverBride on February 13, 2025 8:56PM
    PCNA
  • Surgee
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    When asking for major changes these types of conflicts are going to come up, and players are going to give their feedback, for or against.

    I personally find asking to be rewarded and given more experience for killing the same enemies and doing the same quests because more difficult fights take longer, to be unreasonable and unfair. Especially since longer fights are what is being asked for.

    And no matter how long it takes to level, giving increased experience means that those players will get way more experience per zone than those on normal. How is that fair?

    You can't be serious...asking for more reward for completing harder task is unreasonable? Getting rewards equivalent to the amount of work put into the task is literally how everything in the world works or else no one would do it.

    Also, if you only want the easy mode where you 1 hit everything, why do you so badly need the better gear? I thought you just play for the fun of killing everything in 1 hit? What's the purpose of getting better gear of everything you touch dies instantly anyway?

    I don't understand why players who want easy mode are so against players getting rewarded for their time and work. Why does it hurt you so much? You're afraid you'll miss out on rewards? I don't complain I dont get the card game rewards without playing the card game, or fishing rewards without fishing. If it's not my thing I simply don't do it and don't go in forums complain that I'm forced to do it to have literally everything in the game.

    You folks have extremely selfish approach to be honest. If you don't want to do the harder content just don't do it. It doesn't stop you from doing what you want to do, and you'll still get the rewards you always did. This is getting ridiculous.
  • SilverBride
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    Surgee wrote: »
    You can't be serious...asking for more reward for completing harder task is unreasonable?

    In my opinion, it is when the player is specifically asking for the game to change to make things harder for themselves.

    Surgee wrote: »
    Also, if you only want the easy mode where you 1 hit everything, why do you so badly need the better gear? I thought you just play for the fun of killing everything in 1 hit? What's the purpose of getting better gear of everything you touch dies instantly anyway?

    I don't just quest in overland. I run dungeons, and vet dungeons, and normal trials, and am about ready to try a veteran trial. I also run the Infinite Archive and do some battlegrounds on occasion. I get most of my gear from dungeons and trials and Cyrodiil. But a lot of players rely on overland sets because they cannot do more difficult content for various reasons.

    Surgee wrote: »
    I don't understand why players who want easy mode are so against players getting rewarded for their time and work. Why does it hurt you so much? You're afraid you'll miss out on rewards? I don't complain I dont get the card game rewards without playing the card game, or fishing rewards without fishing. If it's not my thing I simply don't do it and don't go in forums complain that I'm forced to do it to have literally everything in the game.

    Because it is not fair to the many players that will never be able to complete more difficult overland content. Overland isn't like dungeons and trials that are set up for end game players to find more challenge if they choose. It's for telling the story. And when players ask for more difficulty for immersion, well they are getting that.

    I explained my view in more detail in my post above yours.
    Edited by SilverBride on February 13, 2025 9:43PM
    PCNA
  • BananaBender
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    I still haven't heard a single good argument of why a veteran overland instance shouldn't give better rewards. That's the way the game has handled every other situation with different difficulty levels, why should overland be different?

    If there is a separate instance for veteran overland, it should give better rewards. If there is going to be a single instance like right now that is just made harder I don't really see a need for it to give better rewards. Why? Because when there is a choice, there has to be an incentive, not for the experienced veteran player but for the newer player. Aaaand because that's how the game handles every other situation regarding difficulty. If the difficulty was the same for everyone there wouldn't have to be any added incentive.
    As far as incentivizing, increased overland difficulty wasn't something that ZoS was wanting to implement and was looking for a way to incentive it so players would participate in it. This was requested by players that stated their incentive as immersion.

    You make it sound like ZoS is doing this against their will, trust me they are not. They are definitely not known for making changes because there is community backlash.
  • SilverBride
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    Overland is not meant to be a challenge. They tried that before One Tamriel and 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Gold veteran zones) was not being played so they changed it and put the challenge in dungeons and trials and arenas, going on 9 years ago now.

    If players want more challenge in Overland, sure as long is it does not affect those that don't. But it is not reasonable to expect to be rewarded for getting a feature that they asked for.

    If a player requiests a custom recall they would like to see, should they get a reward because it takes a couple of seconds longer to get to where they are going now? It's the same concept.
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    A customized action does not have a gameplay function.

    Questing is for leveling. Asking for questing to be made better without breaking its core functionality is not unreasonable.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on February 13, 2025 10:25PM
  • Blackbird_V
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    Overland is not meant to be a challenge. They tried that before One Tamriel and 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Gold veteran zones) was not being played so they changed it and put the challenge in dungeons and trials and arenas, going on 9 years ago now.

    If players want more challenge in Overland, sure as long is it does not affect those that don't. But it is not reasonable to expect to be rewarded for getting a feature that they asked for.

    If a player requiests a custom recall they would like to see, should they get a reward because it takes a couple of seconds longer to get to where they are going now? It's the same concept.

    Jesus. One Tamriel is ancient history; a lot of things have changed since then. Back in Cadwells zones you had better rewards in gold compared to regular and silver. Ancient Daedric motif only dropped in Cadwells gold zones, for example.

    Reward space is not a hill to die on here. The whole game has rewards locked behind Veteran mode and Hard modes. Swashbuckler Supreme, for example.
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
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